posted
British actor Christian Bale plays Moses in Ridley Scott’s new film Exodus: Gods and Kings, which opens next Friday. Aussie Joel Edgerton (Ramses II) and Idahoan Aaron Paul (Joshua) also star. In response to criticism of the mostly white cast, media mogul Rupert Murdoch tweeted: “Since when are Egyptians not white? All I know are.” What was the skin color of ancient Egyptians?
Not white. There is not yet enough evidence to make a definitive judgment about the pigmentation of the pharaohs or Moses, who himself was likely an Egyptian. Mummies are too desiccated to reveal skin tone, and the tiny amount of genetic evidence they have yielded so far adds nothing to the question. As the Explainer wrote back in 2011, small differences in bone structure don’t reliably indicate the race of a recently deceased person, let alone a 3,000-year-old corpse. We are mostly limited to the subjective statements of Egyptians and the outsiders who depicted them, which suggest that majority of people of pharaonic Egypt were neither white nor black, by modern standards. Herodotus, for example, referred to the Egyptians as melanchroes. That term is sometimes translated as “black-skinned,” but Herodotus typically used a different word to describe people from further south in Africa, suggesting that “dark-skinned” is more appropriate. He also compared Egyptian skin to that of the people of Colchis, in the Southern Caucasus. The Egyptians typically painted representations of themselves with light brown skin, somewhere between the fair-skinned people of the Levant and the darker Nubian people to the south. These paintings, however, may not be entirely reliable, because Egyptian artists didn’t always faithfully attempt to recreate reality. They sometimes alternated skin tones of people in a row to create contrast. Men were depicted with darker skin than women to represent gender roles—men worked in the fields while women stayed in the home—even when the subjects were royalty who did not engage in manual labor.
Ancient Egypt was a racially diverse place, because the Nile River drew people from all over the region. Egyptian writings do not suggest that the people of that era had a preoccupation with skin color. Those who obeyed the king, spoke the language, and worshipped the proper gods were considered Egyptian. Outsiders were allowed to marry Egyptians. Even the aristocracy was racially integrated. Princesses from the Levant joined the Egyptian nobility. Maiherpri, a dark-skinned Nubian who lived shortly before the reign of Ramses II, was also part of the Egyptian royal court and was buried in the Valley of the Kings.
The skin color of ancient Egyptians is a long-running modern debate, both among scholars and in the lay community, even if the ancient Egyptians themselves didn’t much care about it. The last major flare-up came in 2005, when National Geographic launched a traveling exhibition featuring a reconstruction of the face of the boy-king Tutankhamun. A pair of earlier representations had suggested darker skin, and the lighter National Geographic version annoyed some observers. The Franklin Institute in Philadelphia convened a conference at which scholars slammed the depiction as too white. (One participant even compared the bust to a young Barbra Streisand.)* Nearly a decade later, though, the light-brown depiction of King Tut remains as good a guess as any.
Explainer thanks Emily Teeter of the University of Chicago.
posted
The question that should be posed by the article is not how "Black" the ancient Kemities were but how "White" were the Greeks/Romans..in any case that issue had been dealt with adnauseam by science, the Kemitians were an African people related to other African people with the same variations in their biological make-up.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
I don’t care what color the ancient Egyptians were, but then again, I’m not an Afrocentrist. But if one day in the distant future after a series of debilitating strokes I were to become an Afrocentrist, it would be necessary for me to picture the ancient Egyptians as black. I’ll explain why in a minute. Irascible octogenarian multibillionaire media oligarch Rupert Murdoch says that Egyptians are white. He also says you need to calm down if you disagree. Twentieth Century Fox—one of Murdoch’s many long, slithering, pipe-snaking media tentacles—will be releasing the biblical epic Exodus: Gods and Kings on December 12, and already the howling uteri of the social-justice battalions are squalling that the film is by its very nature racist since Caucasian actors portray the main Egyptian characters.
According to the film’s director Ridley Scott, the Caucasoid cast was neither a stab at racial revisionism nor an attempt at historical accuracy; it was a matter of financial expediency. Scott told Variety:
I can’t mount a film of this budget, where I have to rely on tax rebates in Spain, and say that my lead actor is Mohammad so-and-so from such-and-such. I’m just not going to get it financed.
Still, this didn’t stop the complaints. Nothing ever stops the complaints. Sometimes these days it seems like the only thing that could possibly stop the complaints would be bullets, but that’s a subject for another article entirely.
“While probably not ‘white’ in the Nordic sense, King Tut and his ilk definitely weren’t ‘black’ in the Ferguson-rioter sense, either.”
Responding to the complaints, Murdoch caused a minor Twitstorm on Friday with a series of three tweets:
Moses film attacked on Twitter for all white cast. Since when are Egyptians not white? All I know are. 8:07PM 28 Nov 2014
Everybody-attacks last tweet. Of course Egyptians are Middle Eastern, but far from black. They treated blacks as slaves. 8:22PM 28 Nov 2014
Okay, there are many shades of color. Nothing racist about that, so calm down! 8:53PM 28 Nov 2014 Apparently it’s an emotionally charged topic for a lot of people. Since Egypt was one of the greatest ancient civilizations, it’s understandable that competing modern ethnic groups would try to call dibs on it.
Wikipedia has a whole page devoted to the “Ancient Egyptian race controversy,” and if you squint hard enough to read between all the disclaimers about how race isn’t real and that all respectable modern anthropologists will tell you it doesn’t even exist, it covers the spectrum of popular hypotheses and theories about the genetic makeup of ancient Egypt’s movers and shakers. These range from the Black Egyptian hypothesis (they were full-blooded black Africans); to the Asiatic Race Theory (they were descended from Middle Easterners); to the Caucasian/Hamitic hypothesis (they were white Euros); to the Turanid race hypothesis (they were Mongols); to the Dynastic race theory (they were an elite set of Mesopotamian conquerors).
Their “Population history of Egypt” page gets a smidge more specific with the science. Modern Egyptians, at least, possess a “non-recombining portion of the Y chromosome…[that is] much more similar to those of the Middle East than to any sub-Saharan African population.” It also avers that “blood typing of dynastic mummies found ABO frequencies to be most similar to modern Egyptians.” It adds that one famous DNA study concluded that “Ancient Egyptians were indeed most similar to people from Western Asia”—Western Asia being a fashionable new geographic term for what used to be called the Middle East.
If that’s the case, then Ol’ Rupert was half-right—while probably not “white” in the Nordic sense, King Tut and his ilk definitely weren’t “black” in the Ferguson-rioter sense, either. The ancient Egyptians were most likely somewhat Middle Eastern in appearance, and I can live with that. I don’t have a sphinx in that fight—nor an Anubis, for that matter.
quote:for kdolo who is on ban, so please, do not reply to kdolo anymore, thanks:
"Dolo" (feat. R. Kelly)
Lemme see it
[Hook - R. Kelly & Kid Ink:] Said, I don't see no one else but you alone Said, I don't see no one else Did you come over, dolo, dolo Tell me did you come over, dolo You ain't gotta leave by yourself, ya hear
[Verse 1 - Kid Ink:] Everything is a go doe I been lookin' at you dance like a Go-go Girl, hold that for the photo Ain't got drink in your cup, that's a nono And I don't see no one through the smoke Roll like I got no lungs But you the only thing that I notice, dolo Sayin' you ain't gotta leave solo Just go on throw it at me like Romo Sittin' in the club, big sea full of fish And I'm giving you all my attention, said
[Hook]
[Verse 2 - Kid Ink:] You could bring your friends To meet my friends over in my section VIP every week, got a residence Now baby go on bring it back, I'm tryna reminisce You remind, you remind, you remind me Of something that I'm missing, don't know what it is yet Send a full bag, gotta come with submission I be two on, everything on a million, po' up Just let me know, we can be out Keys over at the valet kiosk Sayin' that you came here dolo Probably got a man, I'ma act like I don't know doe
[Hook]
[Verse 3 - R. Kelly:] You ain't tryna get money, what you come for You ain't tryna show nothin', what you come for Get to bouncin' that ass like a pogo Pause, that's a photo Body so dumb I'ma call it body dodo Face so pretty girl you should be a logo Lead singer, solo Leave with me, I'll go We can make moments that we'll never forget I'm talkin' bout shine baby, candles lit Cause baby girl you deserve that **** Cause you work that pole like your bills overdue Got so much talent I'm thinkin' bout sponsoring you Gotta know first
[Partial Hook:] Did you come over, dolo, dolo Tell me did you come over, dolo You ain't gotta leave by yourself, ya hear
posted
There is no mystery here. Go to Egypt. The people in the very north of the Country are pale. This northern part of the country is the most heavily populated with the descendants of the Arab, Turkish, Greek and Roman invaders. Go to the South and the population is black. Period. And in between you still have those who are black as well. Again, no mystery. If these people were really serious they would just admit they are liars, because the facts on the ground clearly show that the native unmixed people would have looked EXACTLY like the images in the tombs. EXACTLY the same. But these people are dishonest, they don't care about facts, they don't care that right up to the 1800s European artists were depicting black Egyptians all over the Nile. They don't care that for the last 200 years most of the people assisting with the excavations were black. So it isn't an issue of 'missing' facts which would make it a mystery because there is a long 'lost' civilization and no people around anymore. They just love to lie so they make it a mystery and a controversy because they are racists.
Europeans have been documenting how these people looked since they got to Egypt but they conveniently play deaf dumb and blind when it comes to relating these facts to the ancient people. Because their so called anthropology is all about creating the concept of 'race' and putting the white 'race' above all others.
The terms "white" and "black" are useless sematics. For instance>
Barack Obama is regarded as the first Black president yet his mother was a light skinned European as are half his genes
quote:Originally posted by Doug M Go to the South and the population is black. Period.
^ so statements like this don't really mean much. If somebody was half Sudanese half Palestinian or if somebody was half Sudanese half Somali you can't easily discern that by looking. Then people come in and talk about "the one drop rule" which is complete nonsense from the Jim Crow era
What is relevant is the question>
to what extent were the ancient Egyptians indigenous Africans?
when this question is dealt with the simplistic American social constructs "White" and "Black" become irrelevant like the title of this thread and if you look at the Egyptian art you see a lot of variance anyway
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
There is nothing semantic about skin color just like there is nothing semantic about the sky being blue. Black is a reference to skin color with high amounts of melanin in response to high UV rays such as among populations in Africa. There is nothing semantic about it. It is a biological fact.
Facts and science agree that the native populations of Africa are black due to them being primarily descended from populations who inhabited the equator. Just as these same facts and science agree that the native people of Europe are white due to them being primarily descended from populations who inhabited the norther regions with low UV exposure.
Therefore calling one of these people is black, two white and one brown is not semantics.
quote: Such a non-random distribution pattern of human skin color was predicted by Constantin Wilhelm Lambert Gloger, a 19th century German zoologist. In 1833, he observed that heavily pigmented animals are to be found mostly in hot climates where there is intense sunshine. Conversely, those in cold climates closer to the poles commonly have light pigmentation. Presumably, the relative intensity of solar radiation is largely responsible for this distribution pattern.
To suggest that this is merely an issue of semantics is to suggest that these differences are trivial and irrelevant, meaning all people can be considered as looking the same, when THEY DONT.
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: [QB] There is nothing semantic about skin color just like there is nothing semantic about the sky being blue. Black is a reference to skin color with high amounts of melanin in response to high UV rays such as among populations in Africa. There is nothing semantic about it. It is a biological fact.
Facts and science agree that the native populations of Africa are black due to them being primarily descended from populations who inhabited the equator. Just as these same facts and science agree that the native people of Europe are white due to them being primarily descended from populations who inhabited the norther regions with low UV exposure.
Therefore calling one of these people is black, two white and one brown is not semantics.
To suggest that this is merely an issue of semantics is to suggest that these differences are trivial and irrelevant, meaning all people can be considered as looking the same, when THEY DONT.
Of course you are wrong it is semantics and you have carefully selected facial features but are are pretending you didn't
And, yes, the differences in skin color are trivial and irrelevant while looking very different from each other
According to Doug there is only one black person in this photo. Have fun telling Ludacris he's not black
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: There is nothing semantic about skin color just like there is nothing semantic about the sky being blue. Black is a reference to skin color with high amounts of melanin in response to high UV rays such as among populations in Africa. There is nothing semantic about it. It is a biological fact.
Facts and science agree that the native populations of Africa are black due to them being primarily descended from populations who inhabited the equator. Just as these same facts and science agree that the native people of Europe are white due to them being primarily descended from populations who inhabited the norther regions with low UV exposure.
Therefore calling one of these people black, two white and one brown is not semantics.
To suggest that this is merely an issue of semantics is to suggest that these differences are trivial and irrelevant, meaning all people can be considered as looking the same, when THEY DONT.
According to Doug the Egyptians were brown not black and Malcom was white
Don't think I'm playing games, look at the picture he posted and what he said, then apply it
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posted
Depends,if by black one is speaking about Black as an ethny or an actual skin tone,the two are slightly different although they can and often overlap.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Depends,if by black one is speaking about Black as an ethny or an actual skin tone,the two are slightly different although they can and often overlap.
Most people don't understand the hypocrisy of white folks. Black means tropically adapted. Period. That is the biological basis of skin color anyway. There is nothing 'ethnic' about it. It only becomes an ethnic construct when one uses it in a social context. White folks know this that is why they created the social construct of race in the first place. And because of that they are now trying to go back and claim that skin color isn't real and that everybody all just looks the same, in other words, like them, when they need it to. In reality it is just the same old double talk as always but the difference is they want it to seem as if black folks created the contradictions of 'race' when they did not. The word black as a reference to skin color existed before racists started using it and twisting it and it was as valid then as it is now in reference to populations with darker skin. But again, the issue isn't the word the issue is skin color. They don't want 'black people' to identify with dark skin as a source of pride just as white people have used white skin as a source of pride notwithstanding all the evil that have been done in the name of white skin. So they play this game of trying to slander folks using words in a perfectly legitimate way in order to push their bullsh*t agenda.
All of these people are black and there is nothing semantic about it:
But you see they don't want to discuss facts they want to dwell on words and nonsense because the facts on the ground are all that counts.
Understand me clearly. The clowns saying this crap are claiming these people have no skin color and it isn't significant. Understand that and the hypocrisy of even ARGUING this point.
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Prof. Norwood's Book Explores Boundaries of Colorism
For Kimberly Jade Norwood, Washington University professor of law and African & African American studies, the topic of her newly released book, Color Matters: Skin Tone Bias and the Myth of a Postracial America (Routledge, 2013), strikes close to home.
“One day, my youngest daughter came home from school and said that she ‘wished she had the cool skin,’” Norwood recalls. “When I asked what she meant by ‘the cool skin,’ she said, ‘More pink.’”
What her daughter was expressing was “colorism”—not racism that exists between blacks and whites, but something even more insidious, pervasive, and difficult to overcome: the preference, even among people of color, for lighter skin, Norwood recalls.
“Even my oldest daughter, who was then in high school, used to lament about the preference among African American males her age for fairer and lighter-skinned girls, especially those who also have long and flowing hair,” she says.
However, it wasn’t until she visited China that Norwood decided to dedicate herself to studying colorism.
“My first day in Shanghai, I noticed that on beautiful sunny days many people, particularly women, were walking around carrying umbrellas,” she says. “When I asked my Fudan University chaperones about this, one of them told me that the purpose of the umbrellas was to block the sun. After all, the student added, ‘Who wants to be dark?’”
As the two locked eyes with each other in the stunned silence that followed—Norwood has a chocolate colored skin tone—Norwood realized that she wanted to formally contribute to exposing the harm of colorism. From that moment on, her “antennae were even more sharply perked.”
Throughout her time in China, she noticed that the working classes there appeared to have darker skin tones, while the more well-to-do people and professionals were lighter in skin tone. Virtually every image of females on television, on billboards, and in advertising portrayed Asian women with barely a hint of their Asianness. From the color of their skin to the shape of their noses, eyes, and lips, white beauty was on display.
“It astounded me! I was in a nation of people of color who rejected that distinction,” Norwood says. “Colorism is also huge in India. India and China together make up a third of the world’s population. Do you know what that means? That means at least a third of the world population is literally uncomfortable in their own skin. That reality overwhelmed me.”
After encouragement from a colleague, Norwood decided to put together an anthology about colorism. She convinced 12 authors—including two research assistants, third-year law student Violeta Foreman and recent alumna Adrienne Johnson, JD ’13—to submit 9 essays on various aspects of colorism in local communities, in the United States, and throughout the world. Norwood wrote the introduction and two essays.
“Colorism is everywhere, even in food preferences,” she says. “Consider white rice, white bread, white potatoes, white meat in chicken. Even nuts! Take pistachios, for example. China is the world’s largest consumer of pistachios. There, the nuts are bleached to destroy the natural caramel colored shell in order to make them lighter and thus more appealing. As people interviewed about the two colors uniformly remarked, ‘Lighter is better,’" Norwood observes.
“It’s a bias that you see everywhere, from Jamaica to the Philippines to Europe to the United States. White imagery is omnipresent and advanced as supreme. White represents power, success, desirability, and many people think, ‘I want that!’ Unfortunately, ‘that’ often translates not into wanting just what those people have (money, power, prestige, love), but rather actually wanting that lighter skin. The thinking is that lighter skin means a better life.”
Given that, how does Norwood explain the popularity of tanning beds in the United States?
“I have a few responses,” she says. “Tanning beds are not popular among brown or darker skinned people. The people most injured by colorism are not running to the tanning salons. In fact, many of those people are the ones who are bleaching their skin, at considerable risk to their health, to be lighter. Tans are temporary. Dabbling with darkness is sexy, exotic, fun. It’s a nice experiment. It isn’t one’s reality, though. Finally, we can’t forget that tanned white skin in this country currently is associated with wealth, and thus one’s status.”
As Norwood establishes in the anthology, colonization has had a significant impact on colorism around the world. Indeed, “most formerly colonized countries took on the values and culture of the colonizer such that, even today, while independence reigns in many of these formerly colonized nations, the culture and values—including the symbiotic connection between white skin and power—remain firmly embedded within them.”
Colorism in the United States is especially complex, Norwood adds. In terms of African Americans, colorism in this country can be traced back more than 300 years. During slavery, sexual unions between slave women and white male slave owners produced "mulattos"—children, half black, half white—who were often lighter in skin tone.
Those children, while still slaves, often were preferred over their darker skinned counterparts. They were taught to read, taught skills, brought into the house to work, and often were able to sell their services, secure their own freedom, and eventually own their own property—including slaves of their own.
During Reconstruction, biracial and multiracial people were also often better equipped to transition to freedom. Ironically, their “privileged” status set them so apart from their darker skinned counterparts. Many went on to establish separate communities, neighborhoods, associations, and schools.
“The famous ‘paper bag’ tests, ‘blue vein’ societies, and ‘ruler’ tests were proof of the perpetuation of the value of light skin,” Norwood says. “And in many circles, circumstances, and situations today, this preference continues to be played out.”
Norwood’s book demonstrates that colorism touches every corner of society, especially the law. “In the United States, darker skinned men and women are more likely to be arrested, convicted, and sentenced to death than their lighter skinned counterparts. Juries view (and therefore value the credibility of) people differently based on the color of the defendant’s skin, the witness’s skin, and the lawyer’s skin. Employment decisions, hirings, promotions, and demotions often can be traced to colorism,” she says.
Colorism is even practiced by children. In the early 1950s, the plaintiffs in the Brown v. Board of Education case used the famous “doll study,” conducted by psychologists Kenneth and Mamie Clark, to help establish the detrimental effects of segregation on the attitude and esteem of young black children at the time. The children were asked to comment on two dolls, one black and one white. With stunning unanimity, black children associated positive feelings and connotations with the white doll, and negative connotations with the black doll.
In 2010, CNN hired renowned child psychologist Margaret Beale Spencer to create and perform a 21st century version of that famous study. This time, however, black and white children, including a preschooler, were used in the experiment. The 2010 results were virtually identical for children of both races. Some of the children’s parents were shocked to see not only their kids associating positive images and attributes to the white images, but also associating negative feelings toward the darker images.
“The parents said, ‘But we never talk about race at home. We teach them that we are all the same.’ And therein lies the problem,” Norwood says. “Not only does race matter, but color matters also. And even children as young as three know this to be true.
“Our task with the book is to bring colorism to the conscious level and to have open dialogue about it,” Norwood says. “We are not the first group of authors to raise this issue. Colorism is centuries years old. Yet, we find ourselves in this place where the practiced reality continues to be that lighter is better. It is an accepted and almost unquestioned norm. It is so engrained in our collective DNA that it thrives virtually undetected.
“I can’t tell you how many people tell me that this either isn’t a problem or doesn’t exist,” she continues. “Even many black, brown, and beige people, in the United States and throughout the world, make the same conclusions. In reality, though, societies are not colorblind. We live in a very colored world that is built upon a color caste system where dark people are relegated to life at the lowest levels of society. And the color caste is poised to become sharper, clearer, and more impenetrable. We hope to add our voices to the call toward the eradication of this growing form of discrimination.”
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: skin color doesn't matter, it's not important
the Europeans brain washed you into thinking it is
True, but "White" is also a color and calling anyone colored serves no purpose at all. We are all "People of Color". Some people choose to define themselves according to the scales and traps that are set by their masters, others choose to use their own minds and think for themselves.
What we need is to stop calling each other names and start including everyone at the big round table.
Posts: 496 | From: Greenland | Registered: Mar 2011
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disadvantaged people all over the world are not actually helpless, but accepting their status makes them seem so.
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posted
Anyway, describing a persons skin color is not racist. It is the actions and attitudes that you have ABOUT a person based on skin color and the systematic processes set up to benefit or subvert people based on skin color that is racist. And in the last 500 years the ONLY population to practice racism is white Europeans. Most other societies are just imitating whites. But no matter what, it is not racist to describe the physical attributes of an individual or population because we are talking about biological science not social science. I find it funny how folks can change the subject from the reality of biological human adaptation to different environments when they are losing a debate. That is lame and cowardly. If you are losing just admit defeat and shut up. To sit up here and then backtrack and try to claim that we don't need to understand these fundamental realities of biology is pure bullsh*t. When I talk about black people in history, I am talking of a biological reality not social science. It is just a label based on physical attributes that can be observed and studied just like any other attribute that can be described using words. To suggest that we shouldn't use words that meaningfully and accurately describe a persons physical attributes is simply 'semantics' in that you are debating the meaning of the word rather than the physical reality behind it. But that is what the racists want because they want to have words mean what THEY want it to mean and concerning ancient Egypt that means as long as they look like white folks then you can call them whatever you want but DONT call them black. Even going so far to suggest that doing so is racist.... please save me that nonsense drivel. They just want any excuse they can use to deny facts and ignore reality to push their B.S. agenda.
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posted
Black,White,Red,Yellow,Brown. Colors of the people.
Why should people be ashamed of describing what color they are? Their is no racism in describing color.
Seems the only time that color description is an issue is when Socalled Great Cultures are learned about.
The Good thing is that The People, Give props and are Honest regardless.
There is a Song Called Jesus Loves the Little Children that describes Colors of the People in many different versions.
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Child Of The KING: Black,White,Red,Yellow,Brown. Colors of the people.
Why should people be ashamed of describing what color they are? Their is no racism in describing color.
because the only accurate word there is brown,
so why deal with fake shyt ?
quote:Originally posted by Child Of The KING:
There is a Song Called Jesus Loves the Little Children that describes Colors of the People in many different versions.
In biblical times people didn't care much about skin color. This is why you might find an occasional physical description of skin color but you won't find a color word as a word defining somebody's identity like "white man" or "black man" or "yellow man"
But know we have been trained to think it's important
So if somebody who is dark wants to lighten their skin the deep solution is not to show them that their dark skin is beautiful the solution is to teach them that it is not important
Skin color is superficial
character is important
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
You know the funniest part of all this is how much liars like to squirm in their own contradictions and pretend that is is someone else's fault when it is surely their own hypocrisy. So if color doesn't matter then why not have movies about ancient Greece with more blacks then? In fact there is more evidence of blacks in ancient Greece than there is of ancient white populations in ancient Egypt. I bet all of a sudden that nonsense about skin color not mattering will go out the window.....
And regarding ancient Egypt, how come is it that the only people described LITERALLY by a skin color in the Egyptian language are the ancient Egyptians themselves? Hmmmmm now how does that work? I don't recall the ancient Egyptians using the term black to refer to other Africans. They only used it to refer to themselves..... But of course in the world of a hypocrite, color doesn't matter so of course we shouldn't take these pieces of evidence seriously now should we.... Of course not.
So lets cast a black woman as queen elizabeth then? Surely she has some black blood and you know skin color doesn't matter does it? Of course it does, especially to the hypocrites speaking such nonsense.
posted
kmt = gbt = egypt/dji(m)bouti Xy + mbuti = sky/sunny people egypt oxyambuatl eau samudra ocean
- - -
OT: my neighbor's surname: Schendel (Bohemian) etym. claim: "shameful" but different meaning, refers to shine/shy of sun = shamash(Akkad) sun, another etym. claim: roofer/shingler/Schindler
Actual origin: Neo-EurAsian Xy = sky-sunny-shine=she(Chinese) = aten(Egypt) = tengri(Mongol)
god = co(mmunity) = come let's go together = jom(Malay) = join = jambo(African) greet/meet/mate/bind/bound = xyambuatlaya/jambalaya=feast potluck/potlatch...
- - -
one more = satu lagi(Malay) uno mas(Spanish) noch ein(German) (reverse order) hito(tsu) moto
Posts: 2021 | From: Miami | Registered: Aug 2014
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And regarding ancient Egypt, how come is it that the only people described LITERALLY by a skin color in the Egyptian language are the ancient Egyptians themselves? Hmmmmm now how does that work? I don't recall the ancient Egyptians using the term black to refer to other Africans. They only used it to refer to themselves.....
Well obviously for that reason, not using the term black to refer to other Africans, means that the term is not associated with human skin color
Further evidence is that they don't call other ethnic groups different color In America you can't have white without black or black without white
That's why the Egyptians were smarter than us
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: And in the last 500 years the ONLY population to practice racism is white Europeans.
. .
I don't know about that.
In my view anti-black racism is of Indo-Aryan origin. Well, at least the earliest docs of it are from India, like in the Law of Manu 1000's of years ago. VARNA
From my youthful readings of JA Rogers Sex and Race, and elsewhere, where he scoffs pre-Bollywood in particular.
Maybe more later, maybe in its own thread Roots of anti-Black Racism or something.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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Prof. Norwood's Book Explores Boundaries of Colorism
For Kimberly Jade Norwood, Washington University professor of law and African & African American studies, the topic of her newly released book, Color Matters: Skin Tone Bias and the Myth of a Postracial America (Routledge, 2013), strikes close to home.
“One day, my youngest daughter came home from school and said that she ‘wished she had the cool skin,’” Norwood recalls. “When I asked what she meant by ‘the cool skin,’ she said, ‘More pink.’”
What her daughter was expressing was “colorism”—not racism that exists between blacks and whites, but something even more insidious, pervasive, and difficult to overcome: the preference, even among people of color, for lighter skin, Norwood recalls.
“Even my oldest daughter, who was then in high school, used to lament about the preference among African American males her age for fairer and lighter-skinned girls, especially those who also have long and flowing hair,” she says.
yes but where did it all begin?
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
Ancient art from Abydos. Nothing symbolic about it.
So if color doesn't matter then why not have movies about ancient Greece with more blacks then? In fact there is more evidence of blacks in ancient Greece than there is of ancient white populations in ancient Egypt....
So lets cast a black woman as queen elizabeth then? Surely she has some black blood and you know skin color doesn't matter does it? Of course it does, especially to the hypocrites speaking such nonsense....
No problem, I would pay to see that.
In art you are allowed to do anything you want,
There are multi millionare black folk in America and billionaires in Africa. They could fund such a movie. And there is nothing that says a movie has to have a $100 million budget to be good. Most of the better, more intelligent movies have much lower budgets.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Child Of The KING: Ancient Egypt is a Majority Black Ancient Culture.
Name Says it all. Km.t What does this term Mean?
What does Khememu Mean??
. .
About "majority black."
I disagree.
Ancient Egypt was a black ancient culture.
All the distinct, or unique, ancient Egypt cultural elements were black developments.
Being THE 1st World power for millennia non-blacks gravitated to TaWy/TaMery and of course infused pieces of their culture into the foundational culture but they had absolutely nothing to do with what made Egypt Egypt.
Blacks alone are responsible for making Ancient Egypt.
It's 3 generations old and there are some who eschew it but a 21st century aware rereading of Chancellor Williams The Destruction of Black Civilization (link) shows the infiltration and co-opting of Ancient Egypt's cultural identity by foreigners and their offspring begotten on native origin Egyptians.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Child Of The KING: Khememu=The Black People
Kmemu=Black People
Km.t=Black
Keme.t=Black Nation
EDIT:
"Drinking the Kool-Aid"
Posts: 496 | From: Greenland | Registered: Mar 2011
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
There are too many threads where I examine primary Egyptian documents which show various usages of Km.t and quite frankly its old and boring to me to now drudge even 3 of them up for you.
GOOGLE keys
altakruri "cattle of ra"
perusing the returns will lead you to other threads if you're really interested.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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You deleted My post don't try to act like you are some Righteous person.
Buddy.
Persons like you and your passive aggressive delete and then try and claim that said post makes it seem that Km.t is not a Black Civilization.
When you your self even said that It attracted people that were non-Black.
You deleted posts on this thread, and Menas thread.
Your the type of person that bothers me the most.
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Unlike you I don't and have never claimed to be righteous. What for?
You are a lying troublemaker no post of yours was deleted from this thread and it was you who edited your own post because if a ardo did it it would have a timestamp & ausar at the bottom [I will demonstrate by editing this post using the mod acct. Look below.].
YOU BEEN BUSTED! YOU BLEW YOUR CREDIBILITY.
Do not disrupt this thread with further anti-Tukuler polemic, take it outside.
[See you wicked evil-doer. The below is automatically machine generated whenever a mod edits.]
[ 10. May 2015, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: ausar ]
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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You are a lying devil troublemaker who will stoop to anything even as we see you fabricated me editing your post when it was you who did it yourself fake ass Xian.
And to think you are doing this for so petty a reason as I refused to alter your posts for you after they timed out. What kind of rotted soul person are you?
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: There are too many threads where I examine primary Egyptian documents which show various usages of Km.t and quite frankly its old and boring to me to now drudge even 3 of them up for you.
GOOGLE keys
altakruri "cattle of ra"
perusing the returns will lead you to other threads if you're really interested.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
The text of BG 4.5.s30 make it plain the Egyptians and Sudanis are blacks and both issue from bodily fluids of Ra whereas the Levantines and Libyans are reds in association with Sekhmet (an often destructive attribute of Ra).
The text of BG 4.5.s30 makes it plain the Egyptians and Sudanis are both issue from bodily fluids of Ra whereas the Levantines and Libyans are reds in association with Sekhmet (an often destructive attribute of Ra)
but the text does not say the Egyptians and Sudanis are blacks
That might be your supposition
but the text makes no reference to skin color if that is what you mean by blacks and reds, that is dubious
Show us any presidence of the Egyptians using the word for red to indicate the skin color of Libyans
-don't make me summon A. Imhotep
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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perusing the returns will lead you to other threads if you're really interested.
After 12 years of this on various forums I'm tired and bored with it.
Just this year a professional wanted to delve into it with me. Even though my findings would thus get published even if anonymously I am just too tired of it to go deep into it again.
You were here when KM.t debates and discussions were going on and you can't bring up anything now that I didn't trounce then.
BG is not the only document I laid out, it was just the first.
What you have to say? I'm not into worthlessness. Say what you will for whomever will enjoy it.
"Tukuler al~Takruri, the ardo" out. Not in to tying Ancient Egypt down to only one thing: banal colour discussion. There is so much to learn and share about Ancient Egypt.
Let's go there, shall we.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Not quite correct you are forgetting their competitors for all things ancient in the minds of some who throw in the towel on KMt and head for Sumer seeking ancient white folks and blond Annunski Gods when this is what those folks actually say about themselves.
quote: Lament For The People Of Ur:
"To me, the woman, in the Agrun-kug, my house of queenship, they did not grant a reign of distant days. Indeed they established weeping and lamentation for me. As for the house which used to be where the spirit of the black-headed people was soothed, instead of its festivals wrath and terror indeed multiply. Because of this debilitating storm, depression, and lament and bitterness, lament and bitterness have been brought into my house, the favourable place, my devastated righteous house upon which no eye had been cast. My house founded by the righteous was pushed over on its side like a garden fence."
quote: 192-196. The scorching potsherds made the dust glow (?) -- the people groan. He swept the winds over the black-headed people -- the people groan. Sumer was overturned by a snare -- the people groan. It attacked (?) the Land and devoured it completely. Tears cannot influence the bitter storm -- the people groan.
. In the city the wife was abandoned, the child was abandoned, possessions were scattered about. The black-headed people were carried off from their strongholds.
web page The above pretty much summed up how they saw themselves. According Kramer After fashioning the Black-headed people the God...Enki? went to Meluhha and porfusely blessed it. Magan and Meluhha being Kemet and Kush respectively. web page
quote: Then he proceeded to the land of Meluha. Enki, lord of the Abzu, decreed its fate:
221-237"Black land, may your trees be great trees, may your forests be forests of highland mes trees! Chairs made from them will grace royal palaces! May your reeds be great reeds, may they ......! Heroes shall ...... them on the battlefield as weapons! May your bulls be great bulls, may they be bulls of the mountains! May their bellowing be the bellowing of wild bulls of the mountains! The great powers of the gods shall be made perfect for you! May the francolins of the mountains wear cornelian beards! May your birds all be peacocks! May their cries grace royal palaces! May all your silver be gold! May all your copper be tin-bronze! Land, may all you possess be plentiful! May your people ......! May your men go forth like bulls against their fellow men!
posted
The best you can do is make suppositions and try to insert modern racial terms into ancient periods
BG or any other document inferring commonality between Egyptians and Nubians is NOT LINGUISTIC PROOF the words Deshret or Kmt refer to skin color, period, end of story
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
All you can do is fume fuss and sputter because you don't know hieroglyphics and you don't know AE vocab & grammar in the least.
Ergo you cannot go toe to toe you can only mine data and post it oblivious to reasoning other than your usual troll fluff devoid of substance.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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posted
Look. Why don't you guys just give it up. Your use of 'black' is a trojan horse for a race argument that has little to do with skin color. You just flip flop to saying "it's only skin-pigmentation related" when you're called on it, have nowhere to run to, and you want to give your argument a veneer of legitimacy.
If you had paid attention, the antithesis of "blackness" i.e. modern northern Europeans, were, from the looks of things, within the range of African-American skin pigmentation phenotypes just a couple of millennia ago.
This should let a sane person realize that the term "black", when used to signify a range of brown complexions, doesn't discriminate between African and non-African ancestry. So why persist on using it in discussions where the intention is to do exactly that?
The real reason: it's just a race-related code word that you want to use to artificially group a continent of people who are genetically only very loosely related once inter-regional admixture is accounted for--a conclusion everyone would arrive at if he/she were to apply the same standards for assessing relatedness in Eurasia, to Africa. But applying relatedness standards that are in effect everywhere else in the world is not on the Afrocentric agenda, along with a host of other scientific realities that don't jive with their ideology.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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On Kush, I see only emigrants from the Black Sea, (K)-Euxine perhaps priestly types (K-o-cyan/Koshen/Kosher/Cohen), they may have been quite melanized or not, brought woven cloth techniques and shawls and stories to Egypt/Sudan etc.
Posts: 2021 | From: Miami | Registered: Aug 2014
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: skin color doesn't matter, it's not important
the Europeans brain washed you into thinking it is
True, but "White" is also a color and calling anyone colored serves no purpose at all. We are all "People of Color". Some people choose to define themselves according to the scales and traps that are set by their masters, others choose to use their own minds and think for themselves.
What we need is to stop calling each other names and start including everyone at the big round table.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Caveman: British actor Christian Bale plays Moses in Ridley Scott’s new film Exodus: Gods and Kings, which opens next Friday. Aussie Joel Edgerton (Ramses II) and Idahoan Aaron Paul (Joshua) also star. In response to criticism of the mostly white cast, media mogul Rupert Murdoch tweeted: “Since when are Egyptians not white? All I know are.” What was the skin color of ancient Egyptians?
Explainer thanks Emily Teeter of the University of Chicago.
"Prior to Europe’s involvement with Egypt, the people of Ancient Egypt had many names for their country such as ‘Ta Mery’ (the beloved land), ‘Ta Sety’ (the land of the bow) which was used for the southern most regions of the country and Nubia (see below). Another name was 'Kemet', which means ‘the black land’. All of these names were originally spelt without vowels, so for example Kmt."
Today, for obvious reasons, the name Kemet is associated with a more African-centred approach to looking at ‘Egypt’. For this reason the gallery that you are currently viewing is called Virtual Kemet. In adopting this name we hope to remind people that the ‘Ancient Egypt’ is an African civilization and that whilst the culture had contact with people from other civilizations, it was essentially African in its culture and well as its geographical placement.
[...]
There are many links between ancient Egyptian and modern African culture, ranging from objects such as headrests to hairstyles such as the side lock, and this and other evidence support the idea that it was an African culture in addition to being geographically in Africa. For these reasons Egypt is seen by people of African descent as part of their cultural heritage and history. The concept of Egypt as part of Africa is not a new one. Some of the earliest travellers to Egypt came from the ancient cultures of Greece and Rome, including Greek philosophers, mathematicians, scientists, writers and poets who came to learn from the priests. To the Greeks and Romans, Egypt was an African country, and their artists depicted the Egyptians as Africans, with black skin and tightly curled hair, described by the Greek historian Herodotos in the fifth century BC as 'woolly'.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by Caveman: British actor Christian Bale plays Moses in Ridley Scott’s new film Exodus: Gods and Kings, which opens next Friday. Aussie Joel Edgerton (Ramses II) and Idahoan Aaron Paul (Joshua) also star. In response to criticism of the mostly white cast, media mogul Rupert Murdoch tweeted: “Since when are Egyptians not white? All I know are.” What was the skin color of ancient Egyptians?
Explainer thanks Emily Teeter of the University of Chicago.
"Prior to Europe’s involvement with Egypt, the people of Ancient Egypt had many names for their country such as ‘Ta Mery’ (the beloved land), ‘Ta Sety’ (the land of the bow) which was used for the southern most regions of the country and Nubia (see below). Another name was 'Kemet', which means ‘the black land’. All of these names were originally spelt without vowels, so for example Kmt."
Today, for obvious reasons, the name Kemet is associated with a more African-centred approach to looking at ‘Egypt’. For this reason the gallery that you are currently viewing is called Virtual Kemet. In adopting this name we hope to remind people that the ‘Ancient Egypt’ is an African civilization and that whilst the culture had contact with people from other civilizations, it was essentially African in its culture and well as its geographical placement.
[...]
There are many links between ancient Egyptian and modern African culture, ranging from objects such as headrests to hairstyles such as the side lock, and this and other evidence support the idea that it was an African culture in addition to being geographically in Africa. For these reasons Egypt is seen by people of African descent as part of their cultural heritage and history. The concept of Egypt as part of Africa is not a new one. Some of the earliest travellers to Egypt came from the ancient cultures of Greece and Rome, including Greek philosophers, mathematicians, scientists, writers and poets who came to learn from the priests. To the Greeks and Romans, Egypt was an African country, and their artists depicted the Egyptians as Africans, with black skin and tightly curled hair, described by the Greek historian Herodotos in the fifth century BC as 'woolly'.
Here's the point though. It isn't like the ancient population of Egypt suddenly up and dissappeared. I am amazed at how these folks stil push BS and can get away with it. Go to Egypt and you will see that there are plenty of blacks in Egypt to this day. And even with the "mixture" Egypt is not America. Only boneheads spout that nonsense.
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