Sápmi (Northern Sami: in English commonly known as Lapland, is the cultural region traditionally inhabited by the Sami people, traditionally known in English as Lapps. Sápmi is located in Northern Europe and includes the northern parts of Fennoscandia. The region stretches over four countries: Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Russia. On the north it is bounded by the Barents Sea, on the west by the Norwegian Sea and on the east by the White Sea.
With the fall of the Soviet Union and increasing internationalization, cross-border cooperation is becoming more important, and existing state borders less important[citation needed] both for the Sami indigenous population and non-Sami inhabitants—the latter constituting the majority population of the region. Russians and Norwegians are the most numerous groups in the region; the Sami make up only a small minority of about 5% of the population in Sápmi. No political organization advocates secession, although several groups desire more territorial autonomy and/or more self-determination for the region's indigenous population.
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Roland Napoléon Bonaparte (May 19, 1858 – April 14, 1924), was a French prince and president of the Société de Géographie from 1910 until his death.
Bonaparte was born in Paris on May 19, 1858, the son of Prince Pierre Napoleon Bonaparte and Justine Eleanore Ruflin. He was a grandson of Lucien Bonaparte, Emperor Napoleon I's brother.
In 1886, Bonaparte was part of a scientific expedition that photographed and anatomically measured the Sami inhabitants of Northern Norway.
Bonaparte in center measuring a Sami woman's head.
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Frontal and profile views of a Laplander, anthropological study by expedition of Prince Roland Bonaparte, 1884 (printed ca. 1886). Collotype images, each 4.5 x 6 inches (11x15 cm), printed on sheet 12 x 17 inches (30x43 cm) with plate number, sitter name "Anders Andersen Anto" and attributions "Collection du Prince R. Bonaparte" / "Phototypie G. Roche". (Ref# fd08.48)
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^That was never in doubt, but who said they carried R1b? Your theory is muddled, it is up to you to correct it.
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quote:Originally posted by Mindovermatter: Plus all White Europeans have R1a, which is the Dravidian Indian haplogroup, and its origins are said to be from South Asia and Central Asia as even tribal Indian caste populations have R1a. R1b is not however really found in Indian tribal populations.
I mean use logic and do the math here mike!
All white Europeans, for instance those who carry R1b, do not also carry R1a, that is false in a big way
quote:Originally posted by Mindovermatter:
R1b is one of the primary haplogroups in Europe, the Middle East and Africa. Clearly it's a black haplogroup as evidenced by the high % of it in West african nations.
That is very false
The frequency of R1b is low in West Africa, under 5%
There are only specific ethnic groups that have high frequencies of a particular version of R1b called R-V88
That version is extremely rare in Europe unlike African Haplogroup E1 which is not as rare in Europe.
R1b and R1a are a split from R* which came before the split
The oldest R DNA was found in Siberia
The fact that there is this version of R1b in Africa does not even mean R1b originated there, no genetics reference says so
However if you want to think it is then you are agreeing with xyyman who says Europeans are depigmented Africans
But Mike but up the genetic distance chart to say that they aren't.
Let me explain something about Mike. His opinions were set years ago and put up on his website. He will not change his opinion no matter how much evidence you present. Most of his posts are just redos amy times over, propaganda campaigns
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Saami and Berbers—An Unexpected Mitochondrial DNA Link
AbstractThe sequencing of entire human mitochondrial DNAs belonging to haplogroup U reveals that this clade arose shortly after the “out of Africa” exit and rapidly radiated into numerous regionally distinct subclades. Intriguingly, the Saami of Scandinavia and the Berbers of North Africa were found to share an extremely young branch, aged merely ~9,000 years. This unexpected finding not only confirms that the Franco-Cantabrian refuge area of southwestern Europe was the source of late-glacial expansions of hunter-gatherers that repopulated northern Europe after the Last Glacial Maximum but also reveals a direct maternal link between those European hunter-gatherer populations and the Berbers.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Mazigh - I just don't have any other way to say it. You people are some sad-assed Mutts.
Stop playing make-believe, you are NOT Berbers!
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Hg U5 has fairly low presence in northern Africa. The main hg U of northern Africa is U6, which is also generally low by comparison to other haplogroups, but it is the hg U branch that's autochthonous [to the Maghreb].
Mike this could pass for a white Russian wrestler, why are you always trying to pass it off as black? -and he looks competely different form Kostenki man the top picture, digest that
Also I don't get the thread title you talk about a Mongol type
Have no idea where that guy came from--but he is not Sami/Laplander. Giveaway: The guy is not even wearing Sami clothing. Come on Mike, you can do better than that.
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quote:Originally posted by Mindovermatter: Plus all White Europeans have R1a, which is the Dravidian Indian haplogroup, and its origins are said to be from South Asia and Central Asia as even tribal Indian caste populations have R1a. R1b is not however really found in Indian tribal populations.
I mean use logic and do the math here mike!
All white Europeans, for instance those who carry R1b, do not also carry R1a, that is false in a big way
quote:Originally posted by Mindovermatter:
R1b is one of the primary haplogroups in Europe, the Middle East and Africa. Clearly it's a black haplogroup as evidenced by the high % of it in West african nations.
That is very false
The frequency of R1b is low in West Africa, under 5%
There are only specific ethnic groups that have high frequencies of a particular version of R1b called R-V88
That version is extremely rare in Europe unlike African Haplogroup E1 which is not as rare in Europe.
R1b and R1a are a split from R* which came before the split
The oldest R DNA was found in Siberia
The fact that there is this version of R1b in Africa does not even mean R1b originated there, no genetics reference says so
However if you want to think it is then you are agreeing with xyyman who says Europeans are depigmented Africans
But Mike but up the genetic distance chart to say that they aren't.
Let me explain something about Mike. His opinions were set years ago and put up on his website. He will not change his opinion no matter how much evidence you present. Most of his posts are just redos amy times over, propaganda campaigns
Lioness, notice how I said all WHITE EUROPEANS, not just Europeans but White Europeans! The Basque are not commonly accepted as "white" due to their location in Southern Europe and how they look.
However all of the "whitest of white" or common "white" groups either have R1a or R1b or both! No exception! Those Whitest groups in question include Germans, Scandinavians, British Isles, Slavs, Balts etc etc etc. So yes I am right!
And Lioness, if specific African tribes carry high R1b percentages in Africa, how does NOT mean that there Black Europeans who carried THEIR OWN VERSION of R1b into Europe? Considering that those black Europeans in question were either killed or sent off to North America?
And considering the size of Africa where you could fit three U.S size continents in it, how the hell do they know THE EXACT DNA percentage of EVERY single tribe in Africa, or even West Africa, and test EVERY SINGLE tribe in Africa? There are still isolated tribes and villages in Africa that are untested, just like there are isolated and unknown towns in America or even India.
ESPECIALLY considering the fact that one SINGLE african village is more distant to another african village miles away, genetically then a European is to a chinaman!
And R1a does not have origins in Siberia, you are lying! How come there are tribal caste Indians in India who have haplogroup R1a predating the Aryan migration into India?
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However all of the "whitest of white" or common "white" groups either have R1a or R1b or both! No exception! Those Whitest groups in question include Germans, Scandinavians, British Isles, Slavs, Balts etc etc etc. So yes I am right!
O.k you switched to "or" that makes sense.
,
.
"white" doesn't mean anything. Look at this Japanese guy, pale skin and no R1, deal with that
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Lioness, that person you posted is a mongoloid, not a caucasian. I have never seen Mongoloids of his type with the eye color, skin color, and hair color variation of Europeans!
Mongoloids are a completely separate race! Mongoloids were never accepted as Whites by Whites in the u.s, up till modern times! They had the perpetual "foreigner" stereotype for a reason!
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Have no idea where that guy came from--but he is not Sami/Laplander
He IS a Saami/Laplander you IDIOT. I happen to be Norwegian (the photo was taken in Norway) , (the guy has a Norwegian name, save for the surname) and it is found in this museum : http://www.norskfolkemuseum.no/en/
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike111: [qb]
Lapons (plate 48) - Anders Andersen Anto
Frontal and profile views of a Laplander, anthropological study by expedition of Prince Roland Bonaparte, 1884 (printed ca. 1886). Collotype images, each 4.5 x 6 inches (11x15 cm), printed on sheet 12 x 17 inches (30x43 cm) with plate number, sitter name "Anders Andersen Anto" and attributions "Collection du Prince R. Bonaparte" / "Phototypie G. Roche". (Ref# fd08.48)
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] lamin is merely noting that Anders Andersen Anto looks different frorm all the other Sami from the same 1884 Roland Bonaparte expedition
I didn't assume anything. I said in the many photos from that expedition he is the only one that looks like that. So don't try setting up a straw man. The man could be indigenous or have an recent African ancestor, keyword "or". Missionaries brought some Africans to Finland in the 1800s So "dropping out of the sky" is unecessary
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C'mon Lioness, why the hell would Christian missionaries bring blacks to a bleak and frozen land like Lapland near finland from a great and lush territory that is the southern hemisphere?
Especially when finland was not the center of Christian activity or power in Europe? Northern Europe for a long time remained Christ-free and christian in name only. Why the hell would a missionary try to bring a black african guy to an environment he is not supposed to be in?
I mean do you even think about your stupid lies? If christian missionaries were common there, why would this man need to organize an "expedition" instead of simply going there like any other place in Europe?
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I don't answer dumb "why would" questions to a person who has done zero research on the topic
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Lioness please, you are taking crap out of your ass and when confronted, start throwing lame insults. Just give it up already!
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Laplanders (Sápmi/Sami etc. people).
Wiki:
Sápmi (Northern Sami: in English commonly known as Lapland, is the cultural region traditionally inhabited by the Sami people, traditionally known in English as Lapps. Sápmi is located in Northern Europe and includes the northern parts of Fennoscandia. The region stretches over four countries: Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Russia. On the north it is bounded by the Barents Sea, on the west by the Norwegian Sea and on the east by the White Sea.
With the fall of the Soviet Union and increasing internationalization, cross-border cooperation is becoming more important, and existing state borders less important[citation needed] both for the Sami indigenous population and non-Sami inhabitants—the latter constituting the majority population of the region. Russians and Norwegians are the most numerous groups in the region; the Sami make up only a small minority of about 5% of the population in Sápmi. No political organization advocates secession, although several groups desire more territorial autonomy and/or more self-determination for the region's indigenous population.
Lapland map.
THE HAPLOGROUPS OF THE SAMI ARE U5b and VPosts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Mad Mike and that scientifically illiterate Norwegian clown:
You don't do science by just focusing on a single individual. The article I referenced is based on scientific research where large samples of individuals are researched on and their genomes examined. The article stated that the Sami have ZERO African genomic inputs. The are mainly of North East Asian(5%) and European genomic origins.
Again, even if that guy spoke the Sami language, who knows how he got there. He looks nothing like the generic Sami. That expedition was in 1884--a time when lots of human migration had already taken place.
I remember once visiting a village in Guinea and I met a young guy who looked different from the rest of the family I visited. I was told that his late father was Indo-Chinese who fought with the French against the Vietnamese uprising. The French were beaten at Dien Bien Phu and the Indo-Chinese man left with the French who settled him in Guinea. He took a wife there and produced a son. So who knows how that guy in Napoleon's photo log got in there.
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Compare the posture of Mike111's pictured Lapp (hunchback dwarf with curly hair?) with the posture of the others (all straight backs and straight hair)
Anders Andersen Anto from Nesseby in Eastern Finnmark, Norway. Credit to Christopher Wahren Fine Photographs: Special Exhibit: Laplander Studies by Roland Bonaparte
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Note: the Sami names end in Anto/Utsi/Hetta/Eller/Omma, what is the meaning?
Note: "Norwegian Saami, Mena Abrahamsen."
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