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the questioner
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ive notice that alot of Ancient Greek artifacts portray people with curly hair and dark skin

are the ancient Greeks white like Hollywood portray them?
or
are they a mongrel race of people mixed with Asian and African

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kdolo
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 -

 -

 -

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Fencer
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
ive notice that alot of Ancient Greek artifacts portray people with curly hair and dark skin

are the ancient Greeks white like Hollywood portray them?
or
are they a mongrel race of people mixed with Asian and African

A better question I want to ask you, is do you know what or how the white ones became dominant. It seems that in the art you could see a slow transition of the white settlers coming in...then all of a sudden...

What happened?

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the questioner
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im aware that there is alot of fake Greek artifacts

classical Greek art looks fake to me
it doesn't look like something that would exist during that time

for example
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_art#/media/File:NAMA_X15118_Marathon_Boy_3.JPG
does this bronze statue really look like its 2300 years old?
be honest

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the questioner
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i mean 2000 years ago is extremely old
nobody really stops to think how long ago that really is

a simple 200 years ago is very old
people barely remember what happened or forget what happened in the 1800s

--------------------
Questions expose liars

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
ive notice that alot of Ancient Greek artifacts portray people with curly hair and dark skin

are the ancient Greeks white like Hollywood portray them?
or
are they a mongrel race of people mixed with Asian and African

Right, if you mixed a Chinese person with a Nigerian it would result in a curly haired " mongrel " such as this>

 -

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Mindovermatter
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
ive notice that alot of Ancient Greek artifacts portray people with curly hair and dark skin

are the ancient Greeks white like Hollywood portray them?
or
are they a mongrel race of people mixed with Asian and African

Right, if you mixed a Chinese person with a Nigerian it would result in a curly haired " mongrel " such as this>

 -

Lioness, you idiot he means the albino's from Central Asia.

Also Questioner, the Ancient Greeks were not white because in the U.S census and in the U.S, modern greeks were not considered White and were attacked by racists.

Considering the fact that the ancestors of the Ancient Greeks were black/brown people from Crete called the Minoans, and murals/paintings show numerous black/brown greeks and that they distinguished themselves from White Eurasians from Central Asia, they were most likely not White.

See people like Herodotus and Pliny the Elder to confirm this.

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kdolo
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Lesbos coins 500-550 BC

--------------------
Keldal

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Mindovermatter:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
ive notice that alot of Ancient Greek artifacts portray people with curly hair and dark skin

are the ancient Greeks white like Hollywood portray them?
or
are they a mongrel race of people mixed with Asian and African

Right, if you mixed a Chinese person with a Nigerian it would result in a curly haired " mongrel " such as this>

 -

Lioness, you idiot he means the albino's from Central Asia.

Also Questioner, the Ancient Greeks were not white because in the U.S census and in the U.S, modern greeks were not considered White and were attacked by racists.

Considering the fact that the ancestors of the Ancient Greeks were black/brown people from Crete called the Minoans, and murals/paintings show numerous black/brown greeks and that they distinguished themselves from White Eurasians from Central Asia, they were most likely not White.

See people like Herodotus and Pliny the Elder to confirm this.

So according to you if many of the ancient Greeks looked like this modern curly haired Greek then they would noy be white becuase he's not white.

- this is before you do the mind reading of what the questioner thinks

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the lioness,
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Here's my question, It's yes or no, only >

Are the today's Americans white?

Since we also live today, this should be easy

Then we can use this answer to prepare us to deal with the ancient Greeks

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Mike111
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Here's my question, It's yes or no, only >

Are the today's Americans white?

.
"Since the turn of the century, people born with blue eyes in the United States have dramatically decreased, with only about 10 percent having blue eyes today.

According to Mark Grant, an epidemiologist from Loyola University in Chicago. During the turn of the last century, the percentage of people with blue eyes stood at 57.4% for those born between 1899 through 1905; and 33.8% for those born between 1936 through 1951. According to Grant, in a study titled "Cohort effects in a genetically determined trait: eye color among US whites." This decrease in the occurrence of blue eyes is due to many factors, with the majority pointing to the increase in brown-eyed immigrants, mainly Hispanics and Asians, as well as heightened interracial relationships: as the other determinant. Blue eyes, next to green, are the rarest eye color in the world, as people of counties in Asia and Africa possess brown eyes."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


As you will recall, 2,000 years ago, Tacitus said that ALL OF YOU HAD BLUE EYES AND RED HAIR - symptoms of PURE Albinism.

Point being, you keep changing because you are being slowly REABSORBED.

Like I asked Doxie the other day:

Doxie - are YOU White?

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Here's my question, It's yes or no, only >

Are today's Americans white?

Since we also live today, this should be easy

Then we can use this answer to prepare us to deal with the ancient Greeks

^edit: delete "the", minor typo

I said yes or no

Now Mike comes in saying white people must have blue eyes

can we refrain from the diversionary bullshit, thanks

Are today's Americans white?

yes or no ?

I dont want to hear about no eyes

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IronLion
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
ive notice that alot of Ancient Greek artifacts portray people with curly hair and dark skin

are the ancient Greeks white like Hollywood portray them?
or
are they a mongrel race of people mixed with Asian and African

Right, if you mixed a Chinese person with a Nigerian it would result in a curly haired " mongrel " such as this>

 -

Modern Greeks are not descendents of the famous Greeks of the antique.

They are a mixture of Slavs, Byzantines and Albanians, settled in by the Ottoman Turkish Empire.... and then the British Empire.

Read between lines....

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Mike111
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^Thanks lion:

They purposely avoid true history because that would blow their nonsense out of the water. Btw - add Turks to their mix. Turks always settled in territory that they conquered.

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the questioner
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the lioness
why did you show a picture of a Modern Greek? [Roll Eyes]
i clearly said Ancient Greek
and Chinese are not the only Asians in Asia [Roll Eyes]

im starting to think that you post without thinking

many ancient Greeks also have dark complexion in addition to curly hair

for example in ancient Greek literature it is said that the true skin color of bravery is in between black and white

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the questioner
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the lioness
Do you even know the name of the guy in the picture you posted or about his family history?

just because he lives in Greece doesn't mean his family roots is from Greece

--------------------
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

ive notice that alot of Ancient Greek artifacts portray people with curly hair and dark skin

are the ancient Greeks white like Hollywood portray them?
or
are they a mongrel race of people mixed with Asian and African


quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
the lioness
why did you show a picture of a Modern Greek? [Roll Eyes]
i clearly said Ancient Greek
and Chinese are not the only Asians in Asia [Roll Eyes]


So then specify which Asians are a better candidate for mixing with Africans to produce Ancient Greeks.

(note 4: because they didn't have cameras in ancient Greece)

quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

many ancient Greeks also have dark complexion in addition to curly hair


 -
 -

 -

 -
(last guy Italian)

^ Did the ancient Greeks look like this

Or this? >
 -

Let's use actual examples rather than terms like "white" and "black", stereotype race terms which have no agreed upon meaning

How about asking a question that is a legitimate observation of skin color, for instance "brown" or "light beige"

So in this post we have 5 brown skinned people. Could many of the Greeks have had brown skin? Yes

/close thread

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the questioner
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yet you continue to show Modern people
with the last two being a Italian and African american [Roll Eyes]

this is irrelevant to my post

i don't want conjectures or theories please post something about ancient greece

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the questioner
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if there were cameras in antiquity i wouldn't be asking this question [Roll Eyes]
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the questioner
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the lioness "So then specify which Asians are a better candidate for mixing with Africans to produce Ancient Greeks."

perhaps the ones closest to them (Turks, Syrians, Palestinians etc) [Roll Eyes]

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

ive notice that alot of Ancient Greek artifacts portray people with curly hair and dark skin

are the ancient Greeks white like Hollywood portray them?
or
are they a mongrel race of people mixed with Asian and African


quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
the lioness
why did you show a picture of a Modern Greek? [Roll Eyes]
i clearly said Ancient Greek
and Chinese are not the only Asians in Asia [Roll Eyes]


So then specify which Asians are a better candidate for mixing with Africans to produce Ancient Greeks.

(note 4: because they didn't have cameras in ancient Greece)

quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

many ancient Greeks also have dark complexion in addition to curly hair


 -
 -

 -

 -
(last guy Italian)

^ Did the ancient Greeks look like this

Or this? >
 -

Let's use actual examples rather than terms like "white" and "black", stereotype race terms which have no agreed upon meaning

How about asking a question that is a legitimate observation of skin color, for instance "brown" or "light beige"

So in this post we have 5 brown skinned people. Could many of the Greeks have had brown skin? Yes

/close thread

Why are you showing Sicilians with African admixture, then try to close the thread, supposedly? How come you have no problem with multiple supposed back migrations to Africa (of whcih in most cases there is no evidence lol smh), yet make such a great deal out of recent African migration into Southern Europe. Why is it so important to you to show Europeans as "pure" and more diverse as Africans? I like to know what's up with that.

This question has been addressed many times by several people already, however it has been responded at by you. All you do is keep on rambling.

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
ive notice that alot of Ancient Greek artifacts portray people with curly hair and dark skin

are the ancient Greeks white like Hollywood portray them?
or
are they a mongrel race of people mixed with Asian and African

Right, if you mixed a Chinese person with a Nigerian it would result in a curly haired " mongrel " such as this>

 -

Yes, we know, you people are pure! sarc/ [Big Grin]


 -

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
ive notice that alot of Ancient Greek artifacts portray people with curly hair and dark skin

are the ancient Greeks white like Hollywood portray them?
or
are they a mongrel race of people mixed with Asian and African

quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

Why are you showing Sicilians with African admixture, then try to close the thread, supposedly? How come you have no problem with multiple supposed back migrations to Africa (of whcih in most cases there is no evidence lol smh), yet make such a great deal out of recent African migration into Southern Europe. Why is it so important to you to show Europeans as "pure" and more diverse as Africans? I like to know what's up with that.

This question has been addressed many times by several people already, however it has been responded at by you. All you do is keep on rambling. [/QB]

I don't give a damn about purity.

the questioner didn't mention Southern Europeans or African migration there, that's all you.

His proposal is that the ancient Greeks were not European

and he uses this old school racist terminology " a mongrel race" and doesn't even realize it

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the questioner
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the lioness
can you prove that the Ancient Greeks were "European"?
Ancient Greeks do appear to be European because they lived in what we now call Europe

but are they European in origin?

the word mongrel means : an individual resulting from the interbreeding of diverse breeds or strains; especially : one of unknown ancestry

i used the word mongrel on purpose

curly hair is a result of mixing with black Africans

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


curly hair is a result of mixing with black Africans

that is false. You will not be able to prove that silly statement
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Mindovermatter
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Questioner you are beginning to sound like a troll now, Whites can't have curly hair lol?

First of all I think it's been now an established fact that all modern White Europeans are basically albino's or iterations of people with albinism.

This means that back then, with having vision problems, blindness, eye problems, neurological defiencies, skin cancer and various skin ailments, and god knows what else if you simply look at the stuff that affects modern day White Americans daily, THERE IS JUST NO WAY THAT wHITES COULD HAVE BEEN THE ANCIENT GREEKS OR CIVILIZATION BUILDERS!


You had no glasses, modern medicine, technology, hospitals, suncreens, treatments etc to help people afflicted with albinism, so Whites had no choice but to live in Caves or places like Central Asia.

One, you need to able to draw pictures, read things, reading, writing, architecture, math, science etc which Whites never came up with on their own and this is an actual fact questioner.

The Indo-Europeans never devoloped their own writing or reading systems or literacy in general, which is why the Western writing system is based on a Phoenician alphabet today.

They were horse nomads who didn't have the means to build large sophisticated civilizations like Indus Valley, Sumeria, Egypt, Babylon, China etc etc because of their albinism and because they were not adapted to it or to those environments plus they were backwards.

So no, the Ancient Greeks could not have been Whites, because it would have been physically impossible to come up with the things that the Ancient Greeks built or physically built them; also being illiterate and not creating your own writing system which you need for an advanced ancient civilization, guarantees that you are not going to end up building anything complicated except become nomads on steppe environments.

Makes sense questioner?

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the questioner
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the lioness
i want you to prove its false

show me one curly haired white people who do not belong to haplogroup E

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the questioner
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mindovermatter
i don't want assumptions
i want proof

--------------------
Questions expose liars

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Mindovermatter
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what proof do you need?
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the questioner
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that the ancient Greeks are not white

something tangible or a quote from an ancient Greek to support your claim

--------------------
Questions expose liars

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Mindovermatter
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Look up quotes by Herodotus, Tacitus, and Xenophon then if you want proof. There is loads of written evidence suggesting they were not white.
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the questioner
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can you show me a page in these works

--------------------
Questions expose liars

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kdolo
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Questioner,

I gave u proof. Check the coins

Lesbos, Greece 500-550BC

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
that the ancient Greeks are not white

something tangible or a quote from an ancient Greek to support your claim

 -

So if the ancient Greeks were of this complexion are they or are they not white?

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the questioner
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kdolo
who is that on the coin?
Delphus?

Yes. This crowd is oblivious, wilfully
ignorant or pplagiarizing works as
old as Rogers' 1952 Sex & Race
pp. 81 & 292 with 16 Greek coins
3 of Helios
6 of Delphos
3 of Athena
4 random broad featured nappy hair individuals.

I leave it to some astute ES researcher
to post or link the pages via GoogleBooks.
The device I'm using won't let me.

[ 29. November 2015, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: ausar ]

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the questioner
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the lioness
can you prove that the Ancient Greeks were that complexion?
and can you prove that the ancient greeks had straight hair like the man you posted?

--------------------
Questions expose liars

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kdolo
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On the coin ?

A Negro

--------------------
Keldal

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the questioner
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they wouldn't put a random negro on a coin

who is this negro?

--------------------
Questions expose liars

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
that the ancient Greeks are not white

something tangible or a quote from an ancient Greek to support your claim

 -

So if the ancient Greeks were of this complexion are they or are they not white?

this is not a rhetorical question. Some people might say the above man is white, others would say he's not white.

I'm asking you, in your opinion, is this man white ?

After you answer that we can proceed to how the ancient Greeks might have looked. First, terminology must be clarified

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in my opinion i say no

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Questions expose liars

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kdolo
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What the hell is this.....20 questions ?

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Keldal

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
in my opinion i say no

So hair is then irrelevant

How would one know to what extent a man like that is dark skinned and to what extent he's tanned?

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by kdolo:
What the hell is this.....20 questions ?

don't worry
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the lioness,
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http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22527821

BBC

DNA reveals origin of Greece's ancient Minoan culture
15 May 2013
From the section Science & Environment


Europe's first advanced civilisation was local in origin and not imported from elsewhere, a study says.
Analysis of DNA from ancient remains on the Greek island of Crete suggests the Minoans were indigenous Europeans, shedding new light on a debate over the provenance of this ancient culture.
Scholars have variously argued the Bronze Age civilisation arrived from Africa, Anatolia or the Middle East.
Details appear in Nature Communications journal.
The concept of the Minoan civilisation was first developed by Sir Arthur Evans, the British archaeologist who unearthed the Bronze Age palace of Knossos on Crete.
Evans named the people who built these cities after the legendary King Minos who, according to tradition, ordered the construction of a labyrinth on Crete to hold the mythical half-man, half-bull creature known as the minotaur.
Evans was of the opinion that the real-life Bronze Age culture on Crete must have its origins elsewhere.
And so, he suggested that the Minoans were refugees from Egypt's Nile delta, fleeing the region's conquest by a southern king some 5,000 years ago.
Surprisingly advanced
"He was surprised to find this advanced civilisation on Crete," said co-author George Stamatoyannopoulos, from the University of Washington in Seattle, US.
The evidence for this idea included apparent similarities between Egyptian and Minoan art and resemblances between circular tombs built by the early inhabitants of southern Crete and those built by ancient Libyans.
But other archaeologists have argued for origins in Palestine, Syria, or Anatolia.
In this study, Prof Stamatoyannopoulos and colleagues analysed the DNA of 37 individuals buried in a cave on the Lassithi plateau in the island's east. The majority of the burials are thought to date to the middle of the Minoan period - around 3,700 years ago.
The analysis focused on mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) extracted from the teeth of the skeletons, This type of DNA is stored in the cell's "batteries" and is passed down, more or less unchanged, from mother to child.
They then compared the frequencies of distinct mtDNA lineages, known as "haplogroups", in this ancient Minoan set with similar data for 135 other populations, including ancient samples from Europe and Anatolia as well as modern peoples.
The comparison seemed to rule out an origin for the Minoans in North Africa: the ancient Cretans showed little genetic similarity to Libyans, Egyptians or the Sudanese. They were also genetically distant from populations in the Arabian Peninsula, including Saudis, and Yemenis.
Locally sourced
The ancient Minoan DNA was most similar to populations from western and northern Europe. The population showed particular genetic affinities with Bronze Age populations from Sardinia and Iberia and Neolithic samples from Scandinavia and France.
They also resembled people who live on the Lassithi Plateau today, a population that has previously attracted attention from geneticists.
The authors therefore conclude that the Minoan civilisation was a local development, originated by inhabitants who probably reached the island around 9,000 years ago, in Neolithic times.
"There has been all this controversy over the years. We have shown how the analysis of DNA can help archaeologists and historians put things straight," Prof Stamatoyannopoulos told BBC News.
"The Minoans are Europeans and are also related to present-day Cretans - on the maternal side."
He added: "It's obvious that there was very important local development. But it is clear that, for example, in the art, there were influences from other peoples. So we need to see the Mediterranean as a pool, not as a group of isolated nations."
"There is evidence of cultural influence from Egypt to the Minoans and going the other way."

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the questioner
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the lioness
this only proves that the minoans are maternally European

if you look at cretan art work the women are mostly seen as white or light skin while the men are dark skin

http://micro-robotics.com/AHCV/unit/2/Aegean/data/images/img30.jpg

https://classconnection.s3.amazonaws.com/919/flashcards/675919/jpg/bull_mural1323555284572.jpg
http://www.greeceathensaegeaninfo.com/a-greece-travel/a-h-historic-destinations/crete-knossos/minoan-knossos.jpg

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the questioner
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the lioness
hair is not irrelevant
especially if we are dealing with race

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the questioner
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kdolo
i only asked you a simple question

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Mindovermatter
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
the lioness
this only proves that the minoans are maternally European

if you look at cretan art work the women are mostly seen as white or light skin while the men are dark skin

http://micro-robotics.com/AHCV/unit/2/Aegean/data/images/img30.jpg

https://classconnection.s3.amazonaws.com/919/flashcards/675919/jpg/bull_mural1323555284572.jpg
http://www.greeceathensaegeaninfo.com/a-greece-travel/a-h-historic-destinations/crete-knossos/minoan-knossos.jpg

Those light skin women are actually fake overpaints or intentional overpaints done to repair damage, they are not the real women, Mike has proved this on realhistory.

Also many groups outside of Europe have "European maternal lineages", does not make them European. The Minoans had genes, like black African genes and there are minoans that are black as Africans in paintings. They were clearly non-white.

Also the Ancient Greeks pretty much died out as a race when they fell, first they were several plagues that killed around 80% of original population, secondly climate change in the past killed the remaining original populations and the albino Eurasians then mixed them out to the results today, then there were the Turks/Slavs etc etc.

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the questioner
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mindovermatter
that is my point

but what evidence do you have that it was painted over?

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Mindovermatter
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
mindovermatter
that is my point

but what evidence do you have that it was painted over?

They have teams re-paint pictures as White to "repair" them. They do this Egyptian paintings too,
http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Mummies/Egyptian_mummies/Truth_about_egyptian_mummies.htm

Look at bottom..

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