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Clyde Winters
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The Yuezhi were the Kushana, a Black population that spoke Tamil.

The Kushana and the Yuezhi are one and the same. The Kushana- Yuezhi association is discussed in Chinese and Dravidian literature. V Kanakasabhai, The Tamils Eighteen hundred years ago note that in the Sanskrit literature the Ramayana and Matsya, the Yuezhi were called Yakshas or Kosar. The Pali chroniclers called them Yakkos and Kosars< Kushana.

The Chinese called the Blacks of China Yueh. The Yueh people were also called Yuezhi or Kuishuang [Kushana]. The Yueh of North China established Xia. According to the Yi Xia Dong Xi Shuo, by Fu Ssumein. The li Qiang Black Qiang of Shang were united with the Yueh people of southwest China.
Tochari is a Turkic word for Western European whites in Central Asia. The Greeks called the Yuezhi: Kushana in the Karosthi inscriptions, and Kocano, not Tochari. In the Chinese sources the Kushana were called Koei-shuang or Kwei-shwang = Yuezhi .


The Kushana conquered the Sakas and Parthians and took control of an empire stretching from the Oxus river in Afghanistan, to the Ganges plains of India. This unite under one authority the former dominions of the Indo-Greeks and the Sunga dynasts.

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Clyde Winters
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The Kushana were not white. The Kushana did not call themselves Tochari. Tochari is the Turkic name for the Western European white people who lived in Central Asia . As a result, the word Tochari has nothing to do with the Kushana people.

Below Tocharian and Mongoloid people that lived in Central Asia when the Kushan or Yuezhi ruled Central.


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These white nomads came from the Iaxartes River that adjoins that of Sacae and the Sogdiani. The term Tochara has nothing to do with the Yuezhi, this was a term used to describe the people who took over the Greek Bactrian state.

The use of the term Ars'i does not relate to the Kushana people. The ethonyms: Asii, Pasiani, Tochari and Sacarauli, refer to the Western European white nomads that took Bactria away from the Greeks—not the Yuezhi, who were Black people .

In summary, these pictures of whites are not Kushana. They are Tochari Bactrians. The Bactrians : Asii, Pasiani, Tochari and Sacarauli – were Western European whites or Indo=Greeks. These whites who came to Central Asia with the Greeks after 300 BC, ruled much of Central Asia before the Yuezhi /Kushana . The Kushana did not reach the Oxus Valley until around 150 BC.

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Clyde Winters
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The greatest king of the Kushana was Kaniska. Kaniska came to power between A.D. 78-144. (Thapar 1972, p.92)

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Kaniska ruled an empire extending from Central Asia, to Varansi in the Ganges Valley. He supported the arts and repaired many Kushana monuments and cities.

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Kaniska had two capitals. The capital in Central Asia was Bergraam or Kupura in Afghanistan, while in India the capital was established at Muthura.

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C. A. Winters

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Clyde Winters
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The Kushana/Yuezhi made fine sculptures and engraved beautiful carved sheets of ivory. Their plaques are some of the finest art pieces in India.

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The Kushana/ Yuezhi were at this time in control of the Silk Road, which took Chinese goods to the West. It was also under the Kushana that Buddhism entered China. The Kushana ruled India for almost 200 years.

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Clyde Winters
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The Kushana/ Yuezhi were at this time in control of the Silk Road, which took Chinese goods to the West. It was also under the Kushana that Buddhism entered China. The Kushana ruled much of India for almost 200 years.

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In 7th century, Turkic immigrants from the collapsing Uyghur Khaganate of Mongolia entered Central Asia. These Turks coined the Western European white nomads Tochari. The Turk took control of the area and began to absorb the Tocharians. Today these Turkic speakers and the Indo-Greeks make up the Uyghur ethnic group.

The Tocharians adopted Buddhism from the Kushan.

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The Yuezhi made many murals. The Yuezhi originally lived in Gansu Province of China, before the Chinese pushed them into Central Asia.
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Here is a beautiful mural from Ajanta.

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An early Kushan site in China was Dunhuang, Gansu. At this site the Kushans left many interesting murals. See: http://ids.lib.harvard.edu/ids/view/9060503?width=3000&height=3000 .Note on this mural were later artists tried to make the Kushan noses appear long and narrow like those of Europeans.

Here is a Kushan mural from Magao cave.

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Even before the Turks took control of Central Asia, Western European whites were mating with the mongoloids as illustrated in this cave mural dating to 432–538 AD.

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If you notice the pigment of the mongoloid people on the Tarim mural above make the people in the mural light skinned. This is in sharp contrast to the people depicted in the Dunhuang mural.
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DD'eDeN
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Kushan & Yuezhi

https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2016/09/new-findings-may-unlock-mystery-of.html#Mef7q53jpsCbumsG.97

Wang Jianxin, a professor at China's Northwest University, said they found a large tomb believed to belong to royal families of the Kangju Kingdom in Southern Uzbekistan during a joint mission by Chinese and Uzbek archaeologists that began in 2013.

Wang, who is also in charge of the joint archaeological mission, said conventional wisdom holds that the Kushan Empire was built by Dayuezhi, another ancient nomad kingdom in the area, yet it was possible that the Kushan had defeated and incorporated the Dayuezhi.

According to Wang, since September 2015, archaeological experts from the two countries have been digging 20 km southwest of the Uzbek city of Samarkand, where they found the tomb along with pottery, stoneware, and other items made of bone, bronze and iron dating back to the 2nd century BC.

However, he noted more research and evidence are needed before coming to a conclusion about the relationship between the Kushan and Dayuezhi.


Read more at https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2016/09/new-findings-may-unlock-mystery-of.html#lWRcl7gwxjE2pg4S.99

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Kushan related ES links:

Some interesting articles 30 September, 2016 Ancient Egypt

Asian blacks? Not unless they're negroid I say? revamped 21 August, 2016

Ancient Egypt origins of White Indo-Europeans in Siberia/Central Asia according to Chinese prof 06 May, 2016 Ancient Egypt

The Mogao Caves 01 December, 2015 Ancient Egypt

The Yuezhi 01 December, 2015 Ancient Egypt

Djehuti: Indian Civilization question 30 November, 2015 Ancient Egypt

Central Asia: Kushan Empire ( 2nd century B.C.–3rd century A.D.) 30 November, 2015 Ancient Egypt

Genome-wide patterns of selection in 230 ancient Eurasians 27 November, 2015 Ancient Egypt

Solving the mystery of Meroitic language 14 November, 2015 Ancient Egypt

Britannica - History of Central Asia 26 July, 2015 Ancient Egypt

Accusation of HOMOSEXUALITY in Ancient Egypt claims Black Hebrew 20 February, 2015 Ancient Egypt

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xyambuatlaya

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:

The Yuezhi were a Caucasoid people, as indicated by the portraits of their kings on the coins they struck following their exodus to Transoxiana (2nd-1st century B.C.), some old place names in Gansu explainable in Tocharian languages, and especially the coins they struck in India as Kushans (1st-3rd century A.D.).


http://www.realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/White_people.htm

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
[QB] Just to prove that I am actually the Albinos friend, regardless of what Doxie says, I have taken the trouble - unlike you Albinos - to actually find material about YOUR history. Though it may not be as grand as Black history, it is nonetheless your history. You should embrace and love it, because it is yours.


The Yuezhi

The Yuezhi, or Rouzhi were an ancient Central Asian people. They are believed by most scholars to have been an Indo-European people and may have been

the same as or closely related to the Tocharians of Classical sources. They were originally settled in the arid grasslands of the eastern Tarim Basin area, in what is today Xinjiang and western Gansu, in China, before they migrated to Transoxiana, Bactria and then northern South Asia, where they may

have had a part in forming the Kushan Empire.


Tarim mummy
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a large group of the Yuezhi fled from the Tarim Basin towards the Northwest, first settling in the Ili valley, immediately north of the Tian

Shan mountains, where they confronted and defeated the Sai (Sakas or Scythians): "The Yuezhi attacked the king of the Sai who moved a considerable

distance to the south and the Yuezhi then occupied his lands" (Han Shu 61 4B). The Sai undertook their own migration, which was to lead them as far as

Kashmir, after travelling through a "Suspended Crossing" (probably the Khunjerab Pass between present-day Xinjiang and northern Pakistan). The Sakas

ultimately established an Indo-Scythian kingdom in northern India.

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A Scythian horseman from the area invaded by the Yuezhi, Pazyryk, c.300 BCE.




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the lioness,
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The Gift of Anathapindada, Kushan period, 2nd–3rd century
Pakistan, ancient region of Gandhara
Schist with traces of gold foil

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Bodhisattva Maitreya Kushan period 2nd-3rd century CE from the ancient region of Gandhara
Pakistan Schist

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Panel with the god Zeus/Serapis/Ohrmazd and Worshiper Kushan Empire Bactria 3rd century CE Terracotta gouache


quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
Quote: "The name Kushan derives from the Chinese term Guishang, used in historical writings to describe one branch of the Yuezhi—a loose confederation of Indo-European people who had been living in northwestern China until they were driven west by another group, the Xiongnu, in 176–160 B.C.

Quote: "Kujula's son was the first Indian ruler to strike gold coins in imitation of the Roman aureus."


Damn lioness, all you are doing is proving what I always said - thanks!

The hyphenated word "Indo-European" joins the words India and Europe.

It was clearly said that they came from Central Asia, and went into India - which is true. They were neither Indians NOR Europeans. How could they be "Indo-Europeans"?

If you are attempting to prove that Albinos from Central Asia invaded and conquered parts of India and Europe, save your strength - isn't that what I've been saying all along?

As to Buddha, certainly you're not suggesting that he was an Albino - we know that he was a NATIVE Indian.

quote:
Originally posted by Mindovermatter:
Clyde stop denying, nearly most to every Chinese sources described the Yuezhi and Tocharians as European White looking. Infact even their clothing apparel and design is exactly the same as those found in Europe. You did not disprove or refute my links or sources at all.

If the Kushans were the Yuezhi, which they most likely were given that the Chinese describe them as such, then they were "white people". The Chinese describe the Yuezhi as having reddish white skin, red hair etc etc, everything that describes Whites but not in blacks.

Even this guy agrees with me:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/11/no-romans-needed-to-explain-chinese-blondes/#.VlzEopc5avR

quote:

Anyway, there’s a straightforward explanation for the “Chinese Romans”: they’re out of the same population mix, roughly, as the Uyghurs. Before the year 1000 AD much of what is today Xinjiang was dominated by peoples with a European physical appearance. Today we call them Tocharians, and they spoke a range of extinct Indo-European dialects. It seems likely that there was also an Iranian element. The archaeology is rather patchy. Though there were city-based Indo-Europeans, it is clear that some of them were nomadic, and were among the amorphous tribes that the ancient Chinese referred to as the “Rong and Di.” The Yuezhi and Wusun were two mobile groups who left China in the historical period and are recorded in the traditional annals.

Meanwhile, between 500 AD and 1000 AD the Indo-European substrate of the Tarim basin was absorbed by Turkic groups coming from Mongolia. They imposed their language on the older residents, but genetically assimilated them. The modern Uyghurs are a clear hybrid population. In the papers published on the Uyghurs they shake out as about a 50/50 West/East Eurasian mix. But the DODECAD ANCESTRY PROJECT has them in the sample, and here’s how they break down by a finer grain:

Here in a book:
https://books.google.com/books?id=awF5hqJpErAC&pg=PA216&lpg=PA216&dq=Yuezhi+red+hair+description&source=bl&ots=6E4yfgszJS&sig=QrTOQsFhtbWkqmy1NjsIcWwPYOY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZmb r7kLnJAhWG9x4KHRbNA_UQ6AEIOzAF#v=onepage&q=Yuezhi%20red%20hair%20description&f=false

quote:

Chinese writings mention that the Tocharians had blond or red hair, and blue eyes.

http://asianhistory.about.com/od/centralasia/fl/The-Yuezhi-People.htm

quote:

What we do have is this: Chinese records of a "white people with long hair" living just to the west; coins bearing pictures of kings with long hair and high-bridged noses; mummified remains of European-looking people in the deserts of western China; Greek records of various Indo-European speaking nomads who dominated Central Asia; and documents written in a language that European scholars once identified as "Tocharian."...

DNA studies on the Tocharian mummies show that they had ancestors all over Central Asia and into Eastern Europe - which may not be too surprising, given their nomadic and long-distance trading lifestyle.

A Chinese traveler who lived among the Yuezhi for a year recorded that their language was mutually intelligible with those of other Indo-European peoples to the west. He noted their "deep-set eyes and profuse beards and whiskers," as well as their love of trade and bargaining. With perhaps a tone of bemusement, he wrote that, "Women are held in great respect, and the men make decisions on the advice of their women." Fortunately for us, China's ancient historian Sima Qian reported this traveler's observations in his history.

Ancient Chinese records show that the relationship between the nomadic Yuezhi and the settled Chinese was mutually beneficial.

A large group of Yuezhi survivors fled north and west from the Tarim Basin, where around the year 165 BCE they ran into another great nomadic people called the Scythians. They managed to defeat the Scythians, and drive them from the area just north of the Tianshan Mountains - the Scythians were pushed south into Kashmir. (Note: Some scholars believe that the Yuezhi were originally a branch of the Scythians. If so, the intervening centuries had cut them off from their cousins, and the Yuezhi had no compunction about ousting the Scythians from their territory.)

They would hold this land for just a few decades, however. In 132 BCE, allies of the Xiongnu called the Wusun attacked the Yuezhi and drove them away once more. This time, they ended up just to the north of the Oxus River, in what is now Uzbekistan and Tajikistan.

At this point, Greek records join in with their own observations. This is where some of the confusion about the Yuezhi's name comes in: the classical Greek scholar Strabo identifies them as the Tokhari (from which much later European scholars derived "Tocharian"), and he calls them one of the tribes of Scythians.

Chinese records indicate that at this point, the Yuezhi culture evolved into the Kushan culture. By the year 30 CE, the descendants of the Yuezhi had established the Kushan Empire (30 - 375 CE). At its height under Kanishka the Great, the Kushan Empire controlled what is now Afghanistan, Pakistan, parts of Central Asia, and - perhaps ironically - the Tarim Basin from which their ancestors had been ousted centuries earlier.

https://books.google.com/books?id=-5OEBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA149&lpg=PA149&dq=Yuezhi+red+hair&source=bl&ots=JE8_7A99BU&sig=Go-yMKnxLKkype0x-0UduLV0Hn8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjp5bf0lbnJAhUEHx 4KHbKFA_I4FBDoAQgoMAI#v=snippet&q=red%20hair&f=false

quote:

Mummified remains show that the inhabitants (or at least many of them) were Caucasian in Physical type, with sandy or red hair, pale skin, and a tall build.

THESE PEOPLE WERE CLEARLY WHITE ALBINO'S AND NOT BLACK PEOPLE, ALL THE CHINESE RECORDS AND GREEK RECORDS SEEM TO SAY SO. THE GREEKS DESCRIBED THE SCYTHIANS AS HAVING RED HAIRED AND BEING GERMANIC LOOKING, BUT THEY CONFUSED THE YUEZHI AS BEING ONE OF THEM BECAUSE THEY LOOKED LIKE SCYTHIANS! THEREFORE THE YEUZHI AND THE TOCHARIANS WERE MOST LIKELY WHITE ALBINO'S AND NOT BLACK PEOPLE!

Mike is right when he assumes that the Yuezhi was just an off-shoot of many Dravidian Albino tribes who had settled Central Asia/Eurasia as described by their RED/LIGHT HAIR!

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THIS IS HOW THE YEUZHI IN ALL LIKELIHOOD LOOKED LIKE! [/QB]


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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:

The Yuezhi were a Caucasoid people, as indicated by the portraits of their kings on the coins they struck following their exodus to Transoxiana (2nd-1st century B.C.), some old place names in Gansu explainable in Tocharian languages, and especially the coins they struck in India as Kushans (1st-3rd century A.D.).


http://www.realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/White_people.htm

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Stop lying. The Yuezhi did not look like Caucasoid people. These people in these images are Greco-Bactrians-not Kushan or Kushana.

The Tarim mummies are not Kushan. These are mummies are of white Central Asian nomads.

The Kushana/Yuezhi made fine sculptures and engraved beautiful carved sheets of ivory. Their plaques are some of the finest art pieces in India.

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The Kushana/ Yuezhi were at this time in control of the Silk Road, which took Chinese goods to the West. It was also under the Kushana that Buddhism entered China. The Kushana ruled India for almost 200 years.

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They show the Black African or Sub-Saharan African/Dravidian types.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:

The Yuezhi were a Caucasoid people, as indicated by the portraits of their kings on the coins they struck following their exodus to Transoxiana (2nd-1st century B.C.), some old place names in Gansu explainable in Tocharian languages, and especially the coins they struck in India as Kushans (1st-3rd century A.D.).


http://www.realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/White_people.htm

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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:Stop lying. The Yuezhi did not look like Caucasoid people. These people in these images are Greco-Bactrians-not Kushan or Kushana.

The Tarim mummies are not Kushan. These are mummies are of white Central Asian nomads.

The Kushana/Yuezhi made fine sculptures and engraved beautiful carved sheets of ivory. Their plaques are some of the finest art pieces in India.

.
 -
.
 -

.
The Kushana/ Yuezhi were at this time in control of the Silk Road, which took Chinese goods to the West. It was also under the Kushana that Buddhism entered China. The Kushana ruled India for almost 200 years.

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They show the Black African or Sub-Saharan African/Dravidian types.

. [/QB]

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Bodhisattva Maitreya Kushan period 2nd-3rd century CE from the ancient region of Gandhara


Mindovermatter, will you talk some sense into Clyde. There's a lot of the Kushan art in existence and Clyde is in denial

I think he's jealous Mike pioneered the Dravidian Albino theory

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

Stop lying. The Yuezhi did not look like Caucasoid people. These people in these images are Greco-Bactrians-not Kushan or Kushana.

The Tarim mummies are not Kushan. These are mummies are of white Central Asian nomads.

The Kushana/Yuezhi made fine sculptures and engraved beautiful carved sheets of ivory. Their plaques are some of the finest art pieces in India.

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.

^^^ Look at this. It's merely a very weatherd version os somethng like this:


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the lioness,
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Khaltchayan Reception Hall, Yuezhi north Bactria, 50 BC-50 AD

The Armour Bearer



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Khaltchayan Head

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
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Khaltchayan Reception Hall, Yuezhi north Bactria, 50 BC-50 AD

The Armour Bearer



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Khaltchayan Head

These are Greeks. Euroentrics write history and they teach what is or what is not this or that people. If possible they claim many groups as their own this is the case in relation to the Kushan A good example is Buddha, this personage was Black, but the Batrians made much art that makes it appear that the Buddha was a Greek. This is all a lie, just like these pictures.

Stop lying. The Yuezhi did not look like Caucasoid people. These people in these images are Greco-Bactrians-not Kushan or Kushana.

The Tarim mummies are not Kushan. These are mummies are of white Central Asian nomads.

The Kushana/Yuezhi made fine sculptures and engraved beautiful carved sheets of ivory. Their plaques are some of the finest art pieces in India.


These white nomads came from the Iaxartes River that adjoins that of Sacae and the Sogdiani. The term Tochara has nothing to do with the Yuezhi, this was a term used to describe the people who took over the Greek Bactrian state.

The use of the term Ars'i does not relate to the Kushana people. The ethonyms: Asii, Pasiani, Tochari and Sacarauli, refer to the Western European white nomads that took Bactria away from the Greeks—not the Yuezhi, who were Black people .

In summary, these pictures of whites are not Kushana. They are Tochari Bactrians. The Bactrians : Asii, Pasiani, Tochari and Sacarauli – were Western European whites or Indo-Greeks. These whites who came to Central Asia with the Greeks after 300 BC, ruled much of Central Asia before the Yuezhi /Kushana . The Kushana did not reach the Oxus Valley until around 150 BC.

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Bodhisattva Maitreya art was created by the Bactrians and other Greco-Central Asians .
.

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Clyde Winters
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The Kushana/Yuezhi made fine sculptures and engraved beautiful carved sheets of ivory. Their plaques are some of the finest art pieces in India.

.
 -
.
 -

.

The greatest king of the Kushana was Kaniska. Kaniska came to power between A.D. 78-144. (Thapar 1972, p.92)

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Kaniska ruled an empire extending from Central Asia, to Varansi in the Ganges Valley. He supported the arts and repaired many Kushana monuments and cities.

 -

Kaniska had two capitals. The capital in Central Asia was Bergraam or Kupura in Afghanistan, while in India the capital was established at Muthura.

The Kushana/ Yuezhi were at this time in control of the Silk Road, which took Chinese goods to the West. It was also under the Kushana that Buddhism entered China. The Kushana ruled India for almost 200 years.

 -

They show the Black African or Sub-Saharan African/Dravidian types.

--------------------
C. A. Winters

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the lioness,
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This is not a Greek with a big mustache.
It is a Kushan


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The first known Kushan king Heraios (1-30 CE)
The portrait shows Heraios with a marked artificial skull deformation, a characteristic of several Kushan portraits and sculptures of the 1st century CE.


Again, does not look like Greek artifact or type


Ban Gu's Book of Han tells us the Kushans (Kuei-shuang) divided up Bactria in 128 BC. Fan Ye's Book of the Later Han "relates how the chief of the Kushans, Ch'iu-shiu-ch'ueh (the Kujula Kadphises of coins), founded by means of the submission of the other Yueh-chih clans the Kushan Empire, known to the Greeks and Romans under the name of Empire of the Indo-Scythians.

Kushan invasions in the 1st century CE had been given as an explanation for the migration of Indians from the Indian Subcontinent toward Southeast Asia

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A Buddhist devotee in Kushan dress, Mathura, 2nd century. The Kushan dress is generally depicted as quite stiff, and it is thought it was often made of leather (Francine Tissot, "Gandhara").


 -
Kushan Buddha

Kushan emperor Kanishka was a great patron of Buddhism; however, as Kushans expanded southward, the deities[9] of their later coinage came to reflect its new Hindu majority

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
 -

This is not a Greek with a big mustache.
It is a Kushan


 -
The first known Kushan king Heraios (1-30 CE)
The portrait shows Heraios with a marked artificial skull deformation, a characteristic of several Kushan portraits and sculptures of the 1st century CE.


Again, does not look like Greek artifact or type


Ban Gu's Book of Han tells us the Kushans (Kuei-shuang) divided up Bactria in 128 BC. Fan Ye's Book of the Later Han "relates how the chief of the Kushans, Ch'iu-shiu-ch'ueh (the Kujula Kadphises of coins), founded by means of the submission of the other Yueh-chih clans the Kushan Empire, known to the Greeks and Romans under the name of Empire of the Indo-Scythians.

Kushan invasions in the 1st century CE had been given as an explanation for the migration of Indians from the Indian Subcontinent toward Southeast Asia

 -
A Buddhist devotee in Kushan dress, Mathura, 2nd century. The Kushan dress is generally depicted as quite stiff, and it is thought it was often made of leather (Francine Tissot, "Gandhara").


 -
Kushan Buddha

Kushan emperor Kanishka was a great patron of Buddhism; however, as Kushans expanded southward, the deities[9] of their later coinage came to reflect its new Hindu majority

Stop lying! Kaniska was not white. Here is a picture of Kaniska below.
.
 -


.
Kaniska ruled an empire extending from Central Asia, to Varansi in the Ganges Valley. He supported the arts and repaired many Kushana monuments and cities.

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The Yuezhi or Yueh chih were not Indo-Europeans= 'whites', they were a Black tribe that formerly lived in China.


 -
Kushana Dancer

First, I would like to make it clear that the probable language of the Kushana was Tamil. According to Dravidian literature, the Kushana were called Kosars=Yakshas=Yueh chih/ Kushana. This literature maintains that when they entered India they either already spoke Tamil, or adopted the language upon settlement in India.

The Kushana and the Yueh chih were one and the same. In addition to
North Indian documents the Kushana-Yueh chih association are also
discussed in Dravidian literature. V Kanakasabhai, The Tamils Eighteen
hundred years ago, note that in the Sanskrit literature the Yueh chih were called Yakshas, Pali chroniclers called them Yakkos and Kosars< Kushana.

They allegedely arrived in India during the 2nd century BC. He makes it clear that the Yueh chih/ Kushana as noted on their coins worshipped Siva as seen on the coins of Kanishka. This is why we have a coin of a Kushana king from Taxila, dated to AD 76 that declares that the king was maharaja rajatiraja devaputra Kushana "Great King, King of kings, Son of God, the Kushana".

Kushana

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King Kaniska of the Kushan




The term Tochara has nothing to do with the Yueh
chih, this was a term used to describe the people who took over the Greek Bactrian state, before the Kushana reached the Oxus Valley around 150 BC . There is no reason the Kushana may not have been intimately
familiar with the Kharosthi writing at this time because from 202BC onward Prakrit and Chinese documents were written in Kharosthi.

The Kushana and the Yueh chih were one and the same. In addition to
North Indian documents the Kushana-Yueh chih association are also
discussed in Dravidian literature.V Kanakasabhai, The Tamils Eighteen
hundred years ago note that in the Sanskrit literature the Yueh chih were
called Yakshas, Pali chroniclers called them Yakkos and Kosars< Kushana. They allegedely arrived in India during the 2nd century BC. He makes it clear that the Yueh chih/ Kushana as noted on their coins worshipped Siva as seen on the coins of Kanishka.This is why we have a coin of a Kushana king from Taxila, dated to AD 76 that declares that the king was maharaja rajatiraja devaputra Kushana "Great King, King of kings, Son of God, the Kushana".


Some researchers believe that the Ars'i spoke Tocharian A, while
Tocharian B was the "Kucha language" may have been spoken by the Kushana people. I don't know where you read that the speakers of Tocharian A were called Ars'i. This names have nothing to do with ethnic groups, they refer to the cities where Tocharian text were found:
Tocharian A documents were found around Qarashar and Turfan, thusly these text are also referred to as Turfanian or East Tocharian; Tocharian B documents were found near the town of Kucha, thusly they are sometimes called Kuchean or West Tocharian.


Kanishka Casket

 -


Linguist use the term Tochari to refer to these people, because they were given this title in Turkic manuscripts . They called themselves Kushana.

The observable evidence make it clear that the terms used to label the Tocharian dialects are not ethnonyms, they are terms used to denote where the Tocharian records were found. The use of the term Ars'i does not relate to the Kushana people. The terms: Asii, Pasiani, Tochari and Sacarauli, refer to the nomads that took away Bactria from the Greeks.

These nomads came from the Iaxartes River that adjoins that of Sacae and the Sogdiani .The Kushana people took over Bactria much later. It is a mistake to believe that Ars'i and Kucha were ethnonyms is under-standable given your lack of knowledge about Tocharian. And I will agree that there were a number of different languages spoken by people who
wrote material in Tocharian. It is for this reason that I have maintained
throughout my published works on Tocharian, that this was a trade language. This language was used by the Central Asians as a
lingua franca and trade language due to the numerous ethnic groups which formerly lived in central Asia". Kharosthi was long used to write in Central Asia. It was even used by the Greeks. The use of the Kharosthi writing system in Central Asia and India, would place this writing contemporaneous with the tradition, recorded by the Classical writers of Indians settling among the Kushites of Meroitic Empire.

--------------------
C. A. Winters

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The Chinese historical literature indicates that the Tocharian speakers were called Kushana or Yueh chih and originated in China. Winters (1990) has argued that their ancestral culture was the Qijia culture of western China. Winters (1985b, 1986b, 1988c, 1990) has argued that the Yueh people were Dravidians speakers. Lacouperie (1887:123) was sure that the Yueh people came from the West.


The Chinese claimed that the Tocharians called themselves Kushana > Kuishuang. This confirms Lacouperie's (1887:123) hypothesis for a western origin for the Tocharians because
according to Col. Rawlinson, decipher of the cuneiform script much of Iran was called Kushiva in the cuneiform literature. During the Kassite period the people of Iran were called Kashshu. The expansion of western people into China would explain the analogy between the terms: Kuishuang, Kushana and Kashshu.

Francefort (1987a,1987b) and Winters (1988c, 1990, 1991) have outlined the archaeological data supporting a Dravidian colonization of farming and mining habitats in Central Asia.
This probably led to the adoption of Dravidian, as a language of exchange, technology and intergroup communication by non-Dravidian speakers. At first the desire of hunter-gatherer and pastoral nomadic people to participate in the new economic system introduced by the Dravido-Harappans led to extensive bilingualism among the peoples of Central Asia.
.

.
 -

.
.

The probable introduction of Dravidian in such an area of linguistic fragmentation as a lingua franca probably proved to be advantageous for inter-tribal communication. The status of Dravidian as a unifying language was enhanced further through the introduction of innovative technological and economic culture traits by the Dravidian speakers.

These social and economic factors probably led to the dispersal of Dravidians from Iran to Central Asia. This made possible the presence of diverse languages in Central Asia that demonstrate many lexical and grammatical similarities; and makes congruent the spatial pattern separating speakers of Dravidian, Tocharian and Turkic in time and space.
Greeks in Central Asia

The speakers of IE and Altaic languages settled Central Asia at different times. The Kingdom of Bactria was garrisoned by 30,000 Greek mercenaries. In Bactria there grew a distinctive Greek culture. This culture existed for over 100 years.

The Greeks ruled Bactria after the conquest of the region by Alexander. The dominant population in the area at this time was probably Dravidian speaking.

Bactria was a strong point of Alexander's empire. It later became a part of the Seleucid empire.

The Seleucid administration was staffed by Greeks. In 245 B.C. with the decline of the Seleucid empire, the Bactrian Greeks established an independent kingdom.

By 183 B.C., the Greeks conquered India. As a result they ruled an area from Bactria to the Upper Ganges river.

Bactria was ruled directly by the Greeks. This administration contrasted sharply with that of Greek rule in India. In India, the Greeks tried to encourage cooperation between Indians and Greeks, and printed bilingual coinage.

Greek methods of administration encouraged the decline of Dravidian among the urban Bactrians. The elite dominance model may explain the decline of Dravidian, in central Asia.

The elite dominance model implies the arrival of a small militarily effective population into a new territory, speaking a new language, that successfully subjugates and dominates the existing population. We usually can assume in such a situation as this that the spoken language in this area is replaced by another language brought into the region by a new population from a different region. Application of this model to explain the decline of Dravidian as a lingua franca in central Asia probably corresponds to the Greek conquest and colonization of Bactria.

In 130 B.C., Slavic speaking Saka nomads attacked the Greeks. Tashkend, Ferganah and Kashgar were occupied by the Saka. The Saka forced the Greeks out of Bactria and Tokharestan.

The Kushana first occupied Transoxiana about 160 B.C., and established themselves in Oxus Valley (Bagchi 1955:8). The Kushana/Tocharians later drove the Haumavorka Saka, from Bactria and founded the Kushana dynasty which lasted until the 3rd century A.D.


The homeland of the Altaic speakers, especially the Turkic people was central and Western Mongolia. The dispersal of the Turkic speakers began during the 6th and 7th centuries of our era. They did not enter Central Asia until the 8th century A.D. (Bagchi 1955). The presence of Dravidian loan words in the Altaic group suggest that although the Greeks dominated Bactria for generations, remnants of the ancient widespread distribution of Dravidian settlements in central Asia existed up until the Turks arrived in the region .

.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:


 -
King Kaniska of the Kushan



Same sculpture different picture


 -
Head of man wearing Indo scythian helmut. Early indian sculpture 1st century a.d. Red sandstone from Mathura Uttar Pradesh. National Museum of New Delhi

Clyde this Scythian is neither black or King Kaniska of the Kushan. I don't know if you are aware of this but if the nose is broken off a and the result looks flatter it looks flatter because the nose was broken off not because the nose was flatter. Stop playin


 -
peep this similar hat,
Kings of Scythia, Adraspus AE25mm. Jugate heads of the Dioskuri right, wearing laureate, conical helmets / BAΣIΛEΩΣ AΔΡAΣΠOY, eagle standing on thunderbolt right, ME monogram below.

___________________________________________

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the lioness,
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 - Gold coin of Kanishka. Kanishka the Great, was the emperor of the Kushan dynasty in the second century (c. AD 127–150). He is famous for his military, political, and spiritual achievements. A descendant of Kushan empire founder Kujula Kadphises, Kanishka came to rule an empire in Bactria
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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:


 -
King Kaniska of the Kushan



Same sculpture different picture


 -
Head of man wearing Indo scythian helmut. Early indian sculpture 1st century a.d. Red sandstone from Mathura Uttar Pradesh. National Museum of New Delhi

Clyde this Scythian is neither black or King Kaniska of the Kushan. I don't know if you are aware of this but if the nose is broken off a and the result looks flatter it looks flatter because the nose was broken off not because the nose was flatter. Stop playin

.

 -

.

Liar these pictures are not the same. The fake picture you posted has a larger bottom lip and on the rightside we see a large excess of material on the neck.

Look at the bottom of the left eye of the fake. Here we see a v-shaped fracture not found on the original.

Stop trying to make the Kushans white Greeks or Turks.

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the lioness,
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Clyde you often post photos that are copied with distortion. The photo at right, in the above post is badly narrowed.____________^^^^
You need to change your methods.
The tool I use can change scale but if you hold down shift it also keep the proportions correct.
What you have above is distorted and can't even be commented on

quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:


 -
King Kaniska of the Kushan



notice how Clyde has labeled this item "King Kaniska" but he made that up

Where is the above sculpture from?

Here:

http://www.nationalmuseumindia.gov.in/object-of-the-mounth-may2012.asp?lk=ab1

National Museum, New Delhi

caption:

quote:


Scythian Head
Kushan, 2nd century A.D.
Mathura, Uttar Pradesh
Spotted red Sand stone. 45 x 18 x 6 cms
Acc. No. G. 32

The Kushanas, known variously as Scythians or Yueh-chih and who ruled from Mathura, were of Central Asian origin probably from the western borders of China. Their rule of about three hundred years witnessed the emergence and flowering of sculptural art synthesizing indigenous and external traditions.

Although, the heads of the two Kushana kings of Vima Kadaphises and Kanishka are now lost, they probably must have worn such conical caps.

The large eyes, a subtle smile, projecting eyebrows, rounded counters of the face as seen in this head found at Mathura (near Agra) are undoubtedly different from the contemporaneous Jain and Buddhist sculptures. The conical hat is not native bat associated with the Scythians. A Single Strand of beads that decorates the central median and borders of the hat reflects the style prevalent in the period.

J.E. Dawson
Curator (Archaeology)



.


.


And again below we see a different photo of the very same sculpture, same museum>

 -

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-head-of-scythian-early-indian-sculpture-1st-century-ad-red-sandstone-20814325.html?pv=1&st

caption:
quote:

Head of scythian. Early indian sculpture 1st century a.d. Red sandstone from Mathura Uttar Pradesh. National Museum of New Delh


.


,


 -


It's the same sculpture photographed at a very slightly different angle and slightly different lighting. In other words Clyde has done lost his mind

Most of the nose is missing, the area looking flatter that it was originally

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(Hindu) Kush Etymology

The origins of the name Hindu Kush are uncertain, with multiple theories being propounded by different scholars and writers. The Persian-English dictionary[28] indicates that the word 'koš' [kʰoʃ] is derived from the verb ('koštan' کشتن [kʰoʃˈt̪ʰćn]), meaning "to kill". The word and suffix "-kush" means "kill, slay, death". According to one interpretation, the name Hindu Kush means "kills the Hindu" or "Hindu killer" and is a reminder of the days when slaves from the Indian subcontinent died in the harsh weather typical of the Afghan mountains while being taken to Central Asia.

In his travel memoirs about India, the 14th century Moroccan traveller Muhammad Ibn Battuta mentioned crossing into India via the mountain passes of the Hindu Kush. In his Rihla, he mentions these mountains and the history of the range in slave trading. He wrote,

After this I proceeded to the city of Barwan, in the road to which is a high mountain, covered with snow and exceedingly cold; they call it the Hindu Kush, that is Hindu-slayer, because most of the slaves brought thither from India die on account of the intenseness of the cold.

— Ibn Batutta, Chapter XIII, Rihla – Khorasan

An 1879 map of Hindu Kush and its passes by Royal Geographic Society. Kabul is in lower left, Kashmir in lower right.
According to Nigel Allan, the term Hindu Kush has been commonly seen to mean "Hindu killer", but two other meanings of the term include "sparkling snows of India" and "mountains of India" with "Kush" possibly a soft variant of Kuh which means "mountain". To Arab geographers, states Allan, Hindu Kush was the frontier boundary where Hindustan started.

According to McColl, yet another possibility is that the name may be from the ancient Avestan language, with the meaning "water mountain"

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Clyde you often post photos that are copied with distortion. The photo at right, in the above post is badly narrowed.____________^^^^
You need to change your methods.
The tool I use can change scale but if you hold down shift it also keep the proportions correct.
What you have above is distorted and can't even be commented on

quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:


 -
King Kaniska of the Kushan



notice how Clyde has labeled this item "King Kaniska" but he made that up

Where is the above sculpture from?

Here:

http://www.nationalmuseumindia.gov.in/object-of-the-mounth-may2012.asp?lk=ab1

National Museum, New Delhi

caption:

quote:


Scythian Head
Kushan, 2nd century A.D.
Mathura, Uttar Pradesh
Spotted red Sand stone. 45 x 18 x 6 cms
Acc. No. G. 32

The Kushanas, known variously as Scythians or Yueh-chih and who ruled from Mathura, were of Central Asian origin probably from the western borders of China. Their rule of about three hundred years witnessed the emergence and flowering of sculptural art synthesizing indigenous and external traditions.

Although, the heads of the two Kushana kings of Vima Kadaphises and Kanishka are now lost, they probably must have worn such conical caps.

The large eyes, a subtle smile, projecting eyebrows, rounded counters of the face as seen in this head found at Mathura (near Agra) are undoubtedly different from the contemporaneous Jain and Buddhist sculptures. The conical hat is not native bat associated with the Scythians. A Single Strand of beads that decorates the central median and borders of the hat reflects the style prevalent in the period.

J.E. Dawson
Curator (Archaeology)



.


.


And again below we see a different photo of the very same sculpture, same museum>

 -

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-head-of-scythian-early-indian-sculpture-1st-century-ad-red-sandstone-20814325.html?pv=1&st

caption:
quote:

Head of scythian. Early indian sculpture 1st century a.d. Red sandstone from Mathura Uttar Pradesh. National Museum of New Delh


.


,


 -


It's the same sculpture photographed at a very slightly different angle and slightly different lighting. In other words Clyde has done lost his mind

Most of the nose is missing, the area looking flatter that it was originally

Liar these pictures are not the same. The fake picture you posted has a larger bottom lip and on the rightside we see a large excess of material on the neck.

Look at the bottom of the left eye of the fake. Here we see a v-shaped fracture not found on the original.

Stop trying to make the Kushans white Greeks or Turks.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:


 -


these pictures are not the same. The fake picture you posted has a larger bottom lip and on the rightside we see a large excess of material on the neck.

Look at the bottom of the left eye of the fake. Here we see a v-shaped fracture not found on the original.

Stop trying to make the Kushans white Greeks or Turks.

Clyde has some issue with the picture at left as if there are different features, somehow racially different from the one on the right. That's silly.
This is the same sculpture but two different pictures of it.
And Clyde called it King Kaniska. That was a lie.
The lower lip (and underside of chin) looks bigger because the camera position is slightly lower and looking slightly upward at the sculpture compared to the picture at right.
It's as simple as that. Details around the eye are harder to see in the picture Clyde posted on the right because the photo is blurry and not in clear focus. Excess on the neck is due to the camera angle, it's the same damn thing Clyde, stop it
There is no discrepancy in the facial structure between these two photos, Clyde has gone bonkers

 -
and we see the similarity in the rounded upside down cone shape hat.

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