quote:Originally posted by Mike111: [qb] ^The above pictures of artifacts is worthless, in that you have not given the proper names, or places where they reside, so that they may be authenticated by others.
I on purpose left out some info.
the purpose was to try to trick people
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
As a reminder, for every authentic piece of Black artifact, the Albinos have created ten FAKES, which lioness is all too eager to show.
If what you are claiming to be " authentic piece of Black artifact" why would white people have it on display in their museums? That doesn't make sense. If a mass genocide was perpetrated and there are hundreds of thousands of European artifacts why would 10% a lower amount but still in the many thousands, evidence of such a genocide not have been destroyed or at least hidden ? Mike help us to understand
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Kanō Naizen Namban Screen: Arrival of Portuguese Traders Japan (c. 1600):
Peter Paul Rubens A Roman Triumph Netherlands (c. 1630) Black/colored individuals at the bottom and top-right:
Anonymous German Artist Reliquary bust of St. Gregory the Moor Germany (c. 1350):
Anonymous German Artist Martyrdom of Saint Maurice and the Theban Legion Germany (c. 1500):
European Art History Anonymous German Artist Fragment of a Retable: Saint Maurice Germany (1517):
South German Master
Saint Maurice and The Theban Legion
Germany (c. 1515-20)
Oil on Wood, 68.4 x 70.1 cm.
Collection of Marei von Saher (heir of Jaques Goudstikker), New York:
16th century A.D. Italian-made Cameo of a "Moorish" King:
Coat of Arms of the German Cardinal Friedrich Wetter, Archbishop Emeritus of Munich and Freising:
^^^^Clearly this proves that Europe had a significant population and demographic presence of Black European type people from the Ancient to the Medieval to the classical period in Europe; if all these artworks and coat of arms and pictures of them exist from these time periods from Europe.
Because otherwise we wouldn't see the presence of so many Black Europeans in artwork, coat of arms, artifacts etc etc from these time periods and onwards.....
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Germany (1505) Anonymous German Artist - Carved and Painted Altarpiece:
Anonymous (Saxony) Saint Maurice and His Companions; Adoration of the Magi (left panel, Altarpiece) Germany (c. 1520):
Coat of arms and heraldry of Black European monarch from Germany, medieval/middle ages period:
Robert the Pious, by Jean Fouquet, 1455-1460, Robert II (27 March 972 – 20 July 1031), called the Pious (French: le Pieux) or the Wise (French: le Sage), was King of the Franks from 996 until his death. The second reigning member of the House of Capet, he was born in Orléans to Hugh Capet and Adelaide of Aquitaine:
Portrait of Hetman Bohdan Khmelnytsky (17th century). Hetman of the Zaporozhian Host of the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland in the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth (now part of Ukraine) and (obviously looking very Black and colored in his portraits from a part of Europe known to be very WHITE TODAY):
The Cossack leader Yermak Timofeyevich portrait Russia (1532 / 42-1585):
Axel Oxenstierna (1583-1654). this particular colored rendition from January 01, 1900? engraving by E.Hondius
Count of Sodermore, was a Swedish statesman (gee how could a black/swarthy looking guy, like this guy, become the count of a country that is known as one of the whitest regions and countries in Europe TODAY? LOL):
Joseph Bologne, Chevalier de Saint-Georges was a champion fencer, a virtuoso violinist and conductor of the leading symphony orchestra in Paris.
(December 25, 1745 – June 10, 1799) portrait from classical era of Europe:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^^ I like how he sneaks in non-black people with black people
More like I like how European albino's sneaks in fake whitened portraits of originally dark-complexioned and black-looking people all over the world of entire range of historical figures, one does not know where to begin....
I mean I really don't trust the European Albino depictions and whitened portraits of colored/black people in history, at this point in time....
I mean it's really becoming painfully obvious that Egmond was right, and EUROPE WAS ORIGINALLY BLACK/BROWN, AND RULED BY THEM until the Eurasian albino hordes overcame and over-whelmed them; where they had to be forced afterwards to make amends and "compromises".......
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quote:Originally posted by Mindovermatter: I like how European albino's sneaks in fake whitened portraits of originally dark-complexioned and black-looking people
you made that up?
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quote:Originally posted by Mindovermatter: I like how European albino's sneaks in fake whitened portraits of originally dark-complexioned and black-looking people
you made that up?
Nope, it's pretty much a REALITY and FACT at this point....
There is really no point in trying to trust European albino's and their constant need to create fake whitened artifacts of colored/black figures in history; and arguing with them about their bogus made up history of "europe"....
And all the evidence is pretty much in this thread......
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Guillaume de Lorris and Jean de Meung: Le Roman de la Rose fol. 137r. France/Belgium (c. 1490):
Hayton La Flor des Estoires d’Orient France (c. 1410) Illumination on parchment [Gallica]:
18th Century Portuguese Painting of Black Saint “Pillars of Ethiopia”
Anonymous (Portuguese), St. Elesbaan, circa 1750:
Anonymous Portuguese Artist Saint Iphegenia Portugal (18th Century) AKA Catholicism for the basis of power in Black Europe:
From the medieval romance Roman de la Rose ( illuminated by Guillame de Loris/Jean de Mung-c. 1490):
Julius Soubise, called the Macaroni of London. Soubise (1754-1798) classical period of Europe portrait:
Anonymous Portuguese Artist
Saint Elesbaan Standing on a Dead Muslim
Portugal (c. 1760s):
^^^Mike, it seems you were right; that a lot of medieval religious wars between Medieval European christians and Muslims, were ACTUALLY BATTLES BETWEEN BLACK EUROPEAN CHRISTIANS AND WHITE MUSLIM TURKS/TURKIC PEOPLES! And Black Muslims and Christians did not seem to have problems with each other, as this above picture proves.....
Most Noble Coat of Arms from the Book of Attire of the Court of Duke William IV and Albert V of Bavaria, 1508 - 1551:
Mike, it seems you were right; that a lot of medieval religious wars between Medieval European christians and Muslims, were ACTUALLY BATTLES BETWEEN BLACK EUROPEAN CHRISTIANS AND WHITE MUSLIM TURKS/TURKIC PEOPLES!
How would you describe the Muslim conquest of Spain beginning in 711 ?
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Mindovermatter, nice images. Most I haven't seen.
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Heinrich von Morungen in der Weingartner Liederhandschrift. Early 14th century:
Coats of Arms of Kuefstein between 1701 and 1705:
Detail of Argemmenon from 5th century Etruscan tomb fresco:
Adoration of kings, John gossert 1515:
Ancient Etruscan art:
1440 German (probably Strasbourg, Alsace), Wild Men and "Moors":
Roman Fresco -- Actor & Mask -- Excavated from the 'House of the Tragic Poet' @ Pompeii -- 1st Century CE:
REAL AUTHENTIC AND REALISTIC PORTRAIT OF LUDWIG VAN BEETHOVEN, WHO WAS ACTUALLY A NON-WHITE BLACK/COLORED PERSON AND WAS SAID TO BE "DARK COMPLEXIONED FOR HIS TIME PERIOD AND PLACE IN EUROPE, AND WAS SAID TO BE BORN TO A "MOORISH" MOTHER:
Beethoven portrait 1818 Vienna.... Posts: 1558 | From: US | Registered: Sep 2015
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Engraving of Henry Stewart or Stuart, 1st Duke of Albany (7 December 1545 – 10 February 1567), styled Lord Darnley before 1565, was king consort of Scotland. He was a first cousin to and the second husband of Mary, Queen of Scots, and was the father of her son James VI of Scotland, who succeeded Elizabeth I of England as King James I of England:
The Siege of La Rochelle by the Duke of Anjou in 1573 ("History of Henry III" tapestry, completed in 1623):
(Black looking bearded man on horse, on the bottom left)
Maerten van Heemskerck The Triumph of Silenus North Holland (1536-1537):
Paolo Veronese Martyrdom of Saint Justina Italy (c. 1560):
St. Gereon and followers (detail). Painting on oak. Cologne, 1460:
Paulmy (Antoine-René d'Argenson, marquis de). Auteur du texte Date d'édition : 1401-1500:
Matthew von Pappenheim (1458-1541), woodcut 1530:
(Black European women on top of shield coat of arms at top right)
Detail of miniature of the Three Holy Women at the Tomb of Jesus, greeted by an angel of color --Matthew Paris, Miniature from Psalter, Including a Calendar(ff. 13-18v), Oxford, England c. 1240:
That's a fake whitened portrait of Beethoven Ish, Beethoven was said to be "dark complexioned" and "dark" for his time of existence in Europe. He was also said to have a "moorish mother".
quote: Frederick Hertz, German anthropologist, in “Race and Civilization,” refers twice to Beethoven’s “Negroid traits” and his “dark” skin, and “flat, thick nose.” (pp. 123 and 178).
Frau Fischer, an intimate acquaintance of Beethoven, describes him thus, “Short, stocky, broad shoulders, short neck, round nose, blackish-brown complexion.” (From r. H. Schauffler, The Man Who Freed Music, Vol. I, p. 18, 1929).
In speaking of the immortal Haydn who was Beethoven’s teacher, Andre de Hevesy, says: “Everybody knows the incident at Kismarton or Eisenstadt, the residence of Prince Esterhazy. In the middle of the first allegro of Haydn’s symphony, His Highness asked the name of the author. He was brought forward. “‘What!’exclaimed the prince, ‘the music is by this blackamoor? ‘Well, my fine blackamoor, henceforward, thou art in my service.'”
Carpani, who originally related this says that “Haydn’s complexion gave room for the sarcasm.” And that Haydn had the title of “second professor of music but his new comrades called him The Moor.” (G. Carpani: Le Haydn, etc. Letter 5. Milan, 1812).
Referring to the above incident, Alexander W. Thayer, perhaps the foremost authority on Beethoven, says, “Beethoven had even more of the Moor in his features than his master, ‘Haydn.'” (Beethoven, Vol. I, p. 146). By “Moor” was meant “Negro.” Until recent times the German for “Negro” was “Mohr.”
Paul Bekker, another very noted authority on Beethoven, says that “the most faithful picture of Beethoven’s head” shows him with “wide, thick lipped mouth, short, thick nose, and proudly arched forehead.” (Beethoven, p. 41, 1925. trans. Bozman). Thayer adds that Beethoven was an ugly little man, and no one would be more astonished than the great composer should he return and see how he has been idealized by sculptors and painters.
Beethoven’s family originated in Belgium, which had been ruled for centuries by the Spaniards, who had large numbers of Negro soldiers in their army there. Theophile Gautier speaks of a Belgian type characterized by brown skin and dark hair “a second race which the soldiers of the Spanish Duke of Alva have sown between Brussels and Cambrai.”
In short, the general description of Beethoven, even to his frizzly hair, fits that of many an Aframerican or West Indian mulatto. In the Southern States Beethoven would have been forced to ride in the jim-crow car.
See also: Rogers, J.A., “Sex and Race,” Vol. I, pp. 288, 289,302 (1941) for other data on Beethoven’s Negro strain, one of which is from the new York Times. Also p. 8 for portrait of Beethoven drawn from life by Hofel, which clearly shows the Negro strain. For more extended proof as well as a picture of Beethoven’s life-mask see Sex and Race, Vol. 3, pp. 306-309.
Now, I will admit that there is nothing indicated here that Beethoven was a “mullatto,” in it’s strictest sense, which meant, literally, the offspring of a white woman and a black man (or vice-versa). And THAT hasn’t been proven otherwise. “Mullatto” was often misused as meaning “light-skinned blacks.” However, when one explores the accepted definition of “race” as it relates to black people, the U.S. definition seems to have been (and continues to be) that “If you have one drop of ‘black’ blood in your lineage, you’re black.
I contend that, with all of the above evidence, one must conclude that Beethoven was AT LEAST of African descent. Perhaps not a ‘mullatto (1/2 black,’ ‘quadroon (1/4 black),’ or ‘octaroon (1/8 black),’ as the old terminology went. But, if he WASN’T black, then many people of African descent in the U.S. today would have to be excluded from being black as well, especially given Mr. Roger’s accounts of Beethoven’s descriptions.
THIS IS A REALISTIC NON-WHITENED NON-FAKE PORTRAIT OF BEETHOVEN:
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MOM give it up already. Beethoven was not Black. That site is not a reliable source as it is a Black supremacist Anti-White hate site as is Mike's.
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quote:Originally posted by CelticWarrioress: MOM give it up already. Beethoven was not Black. That site is not a reliable source as it is a Black supremacist Anti-White hate site as is Mike's.
.
Sorry Doxie, the evidence supports MOM.
No way this was the face of an Albino.
From Death Masks of famous people.
Post-Mortem casts of face and hands by famed sculptor Sergey Merkurov.
That might be true if we were living in 18th century England and using language the way they did then.
The Beethoven death mask is great for new members who are unfamiliar with how the Albinos will exploit the lack of knowledge of many members.
As we have seen from the degenerate Albino troll lioness. She will simply produce a modern Albino portrait of the person, claim that it is original. And say that people in those days called Albinos like themselves Black. He,he,he: just a difference in word usage.
I never thought that anyone would be stupid enough to believe such crass bullsh1t. But note the lack of protests in the old threads.
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quote:Originally posted by CelticWarrioress: MOM give it up already. Beethoven was not Black. That site is not a reliable source as it is a Black supremacist Anti-White hate site as is Mike's.
In the images I've posted, he at least looked like a biracial black dude.
The mask as shown by Mike is certainly interesting. His nasal region shows platyrrhine exceedingly. His profile is centrally interesting as well.
Beethoven died during the afternoon of 26 March 1827 in his Viennese lodgings in the "Schwarzspanierhaus". The next morning the painter Josef Danhauser was asked to take a death mask of the composer.
Nice to know Immediately after he had heard the news of Beethoven's death, Josef Danhauser asked the composers's friend Stepahn von Breuning whether he might make the composer's death mask. Breuning complied with this wish and Danhauser was allowed to make the mould in Beethoven's apartment. Although the surviving sources agree on these basic facts the exact time of Danhauser's visit cannot be ascertained, as references in reports of the time widely differ.
According to present-day research Josef Danhauser and his brother Carl in all probability went to the composer's apartment in the early morning, a few hours after Beethoven's death. Carl Danhauer records this fact in a report from 1888. Josef Danhauser seems to have preserved the original negative of Beethoven's face up to his death in April 1845, although it has since disappeared. A few months later Aloys Fuchs writes in his "Verzeichnis aller bisher erschienenen Abbildungen Ludwig van Beethovens" that it was in the possession of the Viennese portrait painter Eduard Cramolini (1807-1881), who also possessed a cast of Beethoven's life mask.(S.B.)
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: In the images I've posted, he at least looked like a biracial black dude.
The mask as shown by Mike is certainly interesting. His nasal region shows platyrrhine exceedingly. His profile is centrally interesting as well.
. Ish Gebor - several times you have given me pause, by what you have said or implied.
As a matter of fact, I have often thought you a vile Albino troll like lioness.
So before accusing you, I thought that I would give you an opportunity to explain your use of the word "Platyrrhine".
plat·yr·rhine Zoology adjective: platyrrhine
1. of or relating to primates of a group that comprises the New World monkeys, marmosets, and tamarins. They are distinguished by having nostrils that are far apart and directed forward or sideways, and typically have a prehensile tail.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: [/qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Ish Gebor: [qb] In the images I've posted, he at least looked like a biracial black dude.
Plat·yr·rhine indicates "a flat and wide nose."
Primate = Primary = First = Archaic.
quote:Fig. 3. A. Cranium from El Hesa, Egypt. Note the wide nasal aperture representing the purported “classic” platyrrhine configuration.
[...]
This, in and of itself, is a remarkable finding given that the sub-Saharan population groups with obtuse nasofrontal angles almost invariably exhibit a platyrrhine configuration—short but wide nose.
[...]
The nasofrontal angle shows an obtuse angle consistent with a platyrrhine nasal config- uration. The lateral edge of the alar region is suffi- ciently preserved to assess the width of the nasal aperture, which closely matches the intercanthal distance (see Fig. 5).
[...]
The nasofrontal angle is somewhat obtuse and while this is usually associated with a platyrrhine nasal condition, this individual exhibits nasal bridge elevation and elongation (Fig. 10)
[...]
The recording of obtuse nasofrontal angle values on the mummy heads usually indicate a platyrrhine nasal configuration (see Milgrim et al., 1996; El-Hadidy et al., 2007) but the pre- served external nose of the mummies contradicts this supposed association of bony nasal morphology to nasal
--SAMUEL MA RQUEZ,1,2* WILLIAM LAWSON,3 KENNETH MOWBRAY,4 BRADLEY N. DELMAN,5 AND JEFFREY T. LAITMAN3
CT Examination of Nose and Paranasal Sinuses of Egyptian Mummies and Three Distinct Human Population Groups: Anthropological and Clinical Implications
THE ANATOMICAL RECORD 298:1072–1084 (2015)
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Gerrit Dou Portrait of a Man Netherlands (1635):
St. Matthew with Life , 1360 th Orsanmichele, Florence:
The Black Boy' c1844 William Windus:
George Bridgetower, virtuaso violinist, by Henry Edridge, 1790:
Young beethoven etching in 1804, Vienna:
Emil Doerstling: Preußisches Liebesglück, 1890
The Prussian military musician Gustav Sabac el Cher and his bride Gertrud Perlig:
Coat of arms of the von Grumbach noble family, Scheiblersches Wappenbuch, 1450-1480:
MITTENWALD, located in the state of Bayern in the district (Kreis) : Garmisch Partenkirchen. The coat of arms were granted on June 20, 1407 by Berthold von Wehingen, bishop of Freising (1382-1410):
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^Fuch that bullsh1t!
So what, were you trying to impress someone by using a totally obscure word? Like who?
Or are you one one those delusional Albinos who was thinking that Blacks would not know what it means?
Word of advice - If you don't know all of what a word means - DON'T USE IT ASS-HOLE!
Yo' are yappin' outta' ya' ... now. You asked for the medical-anthropological definition. I answered you. Are you now also the staple for medical word dictionary? What does this tell? It tells that you don't have a medical, nor anthropological background.
The problem you have is, that you think you know EVERYTHING, BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE. But that's not realistic. You are not the best art curator, you are not the best geneticist, you are not the best archeologist, you are not the medical researcher, you are not the best historian, you are not the best psychologist, you are not the best psychiatrist, you are not the best computer programmer, you are not the best anthropologist, you are not the best economist. The sooner you realize this the better off you'll be.
quote: There are distinctive anatomical differences between the non-Caucasian (platyrrhine, mesorrhine) nose and the Caucasian (leptorrhine) nose. In general, non-Caucasian patients requesting aesthetic rhinoplasty desire improvement and refinement of their noses with preservation of defining ethnic characteristics. Surgeons who perform rhinoplasty in this patient population must be familiar with the variations in nasal anatomy and implement augmentation rather than reduction techniques to achieve the desired aesthetic and functional outcomes. We provide a brief review of recent historical trends in ethnic rhinoplasty, highlight relevant anatomical differences, and describe our strategy for addressing the challenges of ethnic rhinoplasty.
--Romo T 3rd1, Abraham MT.
Facial Plast Surg. 2003 Aug;19(3):269-78. The ethnic nose.
quote:The African nose is classified as a platyrrhine nose, which generally means a wider, flatter nasal shape. Often the nasal base is flared and the bridge is wide. The skin can be quite thick and the cartilages thinner and less defined. Distinctive anatomic differences exist between the nonwhite nose (platyrrhine, mesorrhine) and the white nose (leptorrhine). Surgeons who perform rhinoplasty in multiracial patients must recognize these differences and must implement specific surgical strategies to achieve the desired aesthetic and functional outcome.
Of course the narrowmlndness is in it that they consider platyrrhine as the only real "African nose". Which is wrong. Since mesorrhine and leptorrhine definitions can be found in Africa as well.
But in general platyrrhine is most common, in variable indexes all over the continent, transitioning to mesorrhine and leptorrhine.
Massage from a black man.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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This nose comes close, although Beethoven has WIDER NOSTRILS AND FLATTER.
Here is another shape, yet also platyrrhine.
So Beethoven's was somewhere between these two.
quote:The African nose is classified as a platyrrhine nose, which generally means a wider, flatter nasal shape. Often the nasal base is flared and the bridge is wide. The skin can be quite thick and the cartilages thinner and less defined.
Distinctive anatomic differences exist between the nonwhite nose (platyrrhine, mesorrhine) and the white nose (leptorrhine). Surgeons who perform rhinoplasty in multiracial patients must recognize these differences and must implement specific surgical strategies to achieve the desired aesthetic and functional outcome.
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So you have determined Beethoven is African by this? Total bullshit
I've read about your race by nostril theory before, fuking ridiculous
Joseph Willibrord Mähler's 1804-5 portrait of Beethoven
This is a portrait commissioned by Beethoven which he sat for /close nonsense. There is nothing fake about it
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^^^^That's a fake whitened portrait of Beethoven and probably a lied about portrait that the European albino's are saying is authentic, like your lying degenerate ass. And maybe a fake produced artifact meant to falsely depict Beethoven....
Sorry but I am not trusting what your lying ass is saying here. Most likely that picture has been tampered with by the Albino's.
For one, THE FACT THAT BEETHOVEN AND HIS NOSE AND HEAD SHAPE IN THE PAINTING HERE, DOES NOT MATCH OR IS IN CONGRUENCE WITH THE FACIAL FEATURES OF BEETHOVEN'S ACTUAL DEATH MASK FEATURES THAT MIKE POSTED; REVEALS WHAT KIND OF A DEGENERATE IDIOTIC LIAR YOU ARE!
Looks like Mike WAS RIGHT, when he said that you would try to pass off a fake whitened portrait of Beethoven AS REAL! AND YOU JUST DID IT RIGHT THERE AND SHOWED YOURSELF TO BE A COMPLETE DEGENERATE LIAR AGAIN!
THIS WAS THE PORTRAIT BEETHOVEN HIMSELF CONSIDERED ACCURATE AND PASSED AROUND TO HIS ACQUAINTANCES AND HIS FRIENDS:
^^^clearly a non-white mulatto/black looking guy. Also judging from the death mask that Mike posted, there is no way in hell this guy was a Eurasian albino. Because Eurasian albino's do not have those features and aren't known for having them.....
Also yes Liarness; several times you have claimed you can determine someone's race by looking at their face and skull features, as we are doing with Beethoven here; the racists online that I've argued with also say that you can determine races and sub-races by facial and skull features
Clearly Beethoven was one of those Black Europeans, and enough evidence has been posted....
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quote:Originally posted by Mindovermatter: [QB] ^^^^That's a fake whitened portrait of Beethoven and probably a lied about portrait that the European albino's are saying is authentic, like your lying degenerate ass. And maybe a fake produced artifact meant to falsely depict Beethoven....
Do you think something is fake just by saying "it's fake"
are you high? The above is a portrait of Beethoven in his thirties commissioned by Beethoven painted from life
THIS WAS THE PORTRAIT BEETHOVEN HIMSELF CONSIDERED ACCURATE AND PASSED AROUND TO HIS ACQUAINTANCES AND HIS FRIENDS:
Here's a better quality version of it
Also so we know you are not lying show us the reference that says he passed this around to his friends
Civico Museo Bibliografico Classical Musicale BEETHOVEN (1770-1827) - ITALIAN PICTURAL SCHOOL
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Louis Letronne (1790-1842), Ludwig van Beethoven in 1814 - drawing by Johannes Hendrik Sikemeier, designed by the engraving by Blasius Hofel to a study by Louis Letronne
Engraving (left). Blasius Hofel, Beethoven, 1814, color facsimile of engraving after a pencil drawing by Louis Letronne. This engraving was regarded in Beethoven's circle as particularly lifelike. Beethoven himself thought highly of it, and gave several copies to his friends.(2)
^^^ This color version is what Beethoven passed to friends. It is based on the pencil drawing at top
^ this is by Blasius Hofel, Beethoven, 1814, monochrome facsimile of engraving after a pencil drawing by Louis Letronne.(1) And the better quality version of it: Here you can see all the line work of the engraving visible, in the coat etc
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quote:Originally posted by Mindovermatter: [QB] ^^^^That's a fake whitened portrait of Beethoven and probably a lied about portrait that the European albino's are saying is authentic, like your lying degenerate ass. And maybe a fake produced artifact meant to falsely depict Beethoven....
Do you think something is fake just by saying "it's fake"
are you high? The above is a portrait of Beethoven in his thirties commissioned by Beethoven painted from life
below the death mask, source Princeton University
He is simply a white man with a broad nose.
Check out his thin lips and wavy non-afro hair, stop the bullshit
The Stockholm syndrome historians need to stop the "I see black people" routine
LOL You don't know what Stockholm syndrome is.
Anyway, If I remember correctly Mindovermatter stated that Beethoven was a biracial person, and that his mother was of Moorish descent. Meaning he was swarthy.
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Wow Mindovermatter some very nice picture of Black Europeans. The European are very symbol literate, I think the reason the European royalty and noble use all those image of Black people in their heraldries and coat of arms is because their ancestors were Black people and they themselve were Black and Mulato people. If they only used the image of Black people for style how come they didnt also used the image of Indians, Chinese, Turk, Mongols in their coat of arms.
The real reason that many White people hate Black people is not because Black people were slaves in the USA but because it was leaked to them from the European secret societies that their European Kings, Queens, Emperors and Caesars were Black people
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: LOL You don't know what Stockholm syndrome is.
Stockholm syndrome, psychological response wherein a captive begins to identify closely with his or her captors, as well as with their agenda and demands. So if watch this forum you see certain black people putting down Africans and instead identifying with European form past centuries. Maybe it's you who doesn't know what Stockholm syndrome is.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Anyway, If I remember correctly Mindovermatter stated that Beethoven was a biracial person, and that his mother was of Moorish descent. Meaning he was swarthy.
Don't waste everybody's type. Either you have evidence of Beethoven's mother being of moorish descent or you don't. -good scholarly references not bullshit articles. I'm not playing games here.
Saying an anonymous poster in a forum said so "Mindovermatter told me so" doesn't qualify. And saying "if I remember correctly" further weakens it.
At least you sometimes have references Mindovermatter claims all sorts of things with no support. You sit back and don't say anything. And that errodes credibility
I do research.
The claim that Beethoven had African ancestry was claimed by J.A. Rogers in Sex and Race. He had no documentation to support it.
J.A. Rogers who died in 1966 did a lot of important research but he also the source of exaggerations and stretches that we can see perpetuated in this forum and all over the internet, 50 years later.
Is it possible he had morisco or moorish ancestry? Yes But a million things are possible. I deal with facts
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: LOL You don't know what Stockholm syndrome is.
Stockholm syndrome, psychological response wherein a captive begins to identify closely with his or her captors, as well as with their agenda and demands. So if watch this forum you see certain black people putting down Africans and instead identifying with European form past centuries. Maybe it's you who doesn't know what Stockholm syndrome is.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Anyway, If I remember correctly Mindovermatter stated that Beethoven was a biracial person, and that his mother was of Moorish descent. Meaning he was swarthy.
Don't waste everybody's type. Either you have evidence of Beethoven's mother being of moorish descent or you don't. -good scholarly references not bullshit articles. I'm not playing games here.
Saying an anonymous poster in a forum said so "Mindovermatter told me so" doesn't qualify. And saying "if I remember correctly" further weakens it.
At least you sometimes have references Mindovermatter claims all sorts of things with no support. You sit back and don't say anything. And that errodes credibility
I do research.
The claim that Beethoven had African ancestry was claimed by J.A. Rogers in Sex and Race. He had no documentation to support it.
J.A. Rogers who died in 1966 did a lot of important research but he also the source of exaggerations and stretches that we can see perpetuated in this forum and all over the internet, 50 years later.
Is it possible he had morisco or moorish ancestry? Yes But a million things are possible. I deal with facts
LOL at the above,
Germany and the Black Diaspora: Points of Contact, 1250-1914
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: LOL You don't know what Stockholm syndrome is.
Stockholm syndrome, psychological response wherein a captive begins to identify closely with his or her captors, as well as with their agenda and demands. So if watch this forum you see certain black people putting down Africans and instead identifying with European form past centuries. Maybe it's you who doesn't know what Stockholm syndrome is.
YOU DENAIL ADMIXTURE! BECAUSE IT CRUSHES YOUR IDEOLOGY AND AGENDA! LOL
YOU ACT AS IF THE AFRICAN PRESENCE FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS NEVER HAD ANY OFFSPRING IN THE REGIONS WE TALK ABOUT HERE. SO YOU BUZZ IT OFF AS STOCKHOLM SYNDROME. LOL BUT IT HAS LITTLE TO DO WITH STOCKHOLM SYNDROME. LOL IT HAS TO DO WITH THE REMAINS OF GENETIC PRINTS IN THESE PEOPLE. LOL
quote:From the 16th century, the employment of Africans became increasingly common in England. Wealthy - and not so wealthy - people in the kingdom might have one or two Black servants, footmen or musicians. Whether these retainers were enslaved or free is often unclear in the documents. However, there were certainly also free Black people in a variety of occupations.
quote:Our knowledge of Black people present in Britain in early times is scanty. However, studies by scholars, archaeologists and historians have pieced together evidence about the lives of Black Romans.
One historian, Anthony Birley, in his work The African Emperor: Septimius Severus, explains that between AD 193 and 211 the Roman empire embraced a multicultural mix of peoples from Syria, Germany, Britain, Spain and Africa. Eight African men had positions of command in the northern Roman legions, and others held high rank as equestrian officers.
[...]
During his time in office, Septimius legalised marriage during military service. There is no evidence to suggest that all the Roman legionaries returned home upon their discharge from military service, so it is possible that some Black Romans married, had children, and remained in Britain after their tour of duty. Perhaps they might be considered to be Britain's first diaspora people - from North Africa.
quote:London has a rich mix of people and cultures from all over the world. The population is constantly changing and people have been coming and going for centuries. In the past years a lot of black and Asian people have settled in parts of Britain. Many years ago, there was an African Roman Emperor, Septimius Severus, who ruled large parts of Europe, the Middle East and Africa. When he came to Hadrian’s Wall in 208AD, there were black soldiers already stationed there, they had travelled right across the Empire.
It was recently suggested that African DNA might be found to be present in the local populations near to Hadrian’s Wall, for instance Burgh-by-Sands. However, this would not conclusively show that the black Roman soldiers on the wall intermarried with the local population because of the problem of admixture. Admixture is a process whereby the DNA of a population becomes diluted over time and it cannot be shown at what period in time that dilution took place.
Engraving of abolition campaigner Olaudah Equiano from the 1793 edition of his autobiography (originally published in 1789) Maritime archives and library reference 512.EQU/R
A few Africans had visited and lived in Europe, including Britain, since Roman times. From the 1450s the Portuguese transported thousands of enslaved Africans to Spain, Portugal and Italy to work as servants or in the fields. Lisbon, for instance, had a significant African population from the 16th century.
As the transatlantic trade developed, ships' captains and plantation owners brought Africans back to the countries of Northern Europe. They sold them to work, mainly as domestic servants. Many were children.
'Dear Mama, George Hanger has sent me a black boy eleven years old and very honest, but the Duke don't like me having a black.... if you like him instead of Michel I will send him, he will be a cheap servant and you will make a Christian of him and a good boy; if you don't like him they say Lady Rockingham wants one.'
Duchess of Devonshire to her mother, c1790
In Britain Queen Elizabeth was complaining about the number of 'blackamoores' as early as 1596. By the mid 18th century London had the largest Black population in Britain, made up of free and enslaved people, as well as many runaways. The total number may have been about 10,000.
It was regarded as fashionable amongst the upper classes to have a Black servant and they sometimes feature in paintings, such as 'The family of Sir William Young' by Zoffany. There were Black people in many other towns, such as Liverpool, Bristol, Bath and Lancaster. Smaller number of Black people were also found in rural areas throughout the country.
A number of Black people achieved prominence. Ignatius Sancho (1729-1780) opened his own grocer's shop in Westminster. He wrote poetry and music and his friends included the novelist Laurence Sterne, David Garrick the actor and the Duke and Duchess of Montague. He is best known for his letters which were published after his death. Others such as Olaudah Equiano and Cuguano were active in the abolition campaigns.
The legal status of enslaved people in Europe was often unclear. In Britain it was not finally resolved until abolition in 1838, though after the famous Somerset case in 1772 enslaved people could not be sent back to the colonies against their will.
The connection was found to date back many generations People of African origin have lived in Britain for centuries, according to genetic evidence.
Of 18 people they tested, seven carried the rare African haplogroup.
Turi King and Leicester colleague Mark Jobling then commissioned a genealogist to fit the men into a family tree to see how they were related and find clues about where exactly their unusual Y haplogroup came from.
"He could only get them into two trees, one which dates back to 1788 and the other to 1789. He couldn't go back any further. So it's likely they join up in the early 18th Century," said Turi King.
The majority of the one million people who define themselves as "black" or "black British" trace their origins to immigration from the Caribbean or Africa from the middle of the 20th Century onwards.
I can't help but notice you continually bring up the word "swarthy" as if it was an even stronger term than "black"
I can't help but remind you that the intent in common usage of a word in a given location and time period is different from the etymological root of the word.
For instance the word "fag" today is intended as a slur against homosexuals. However the British have also used the word to mean "a cigarette" or the word "faggot" meaning a bundle of sticks.
So if a word is used descriptively you cannot assume the intent of the writer or speaker matches the original or literal meaning of the word. It's called "word usage" but you will never understand the difference between etymology and usage
So above we have an example of the word "swarthy" being applied to this European man above. So did that teach you anything about usage? No you are incapable of learning this point.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
YOU DENAIL ADMIXTURE! BECAUSE IT CRUSHES YOUR IDEOLOGY AND AGENDA! LOL
YOU ACT AS IF THE AFRICAN PRESENCE FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS NEVER HAD ANY OFFSPRING IN THE REGIONS WE TALK ABOUT HERE. SO YOU BUZZ IT OFF AS STOCKHOLM SYNDROME. LOL BUT IT HAS LITTLE TO DO WITH STOCKHOLM SYNDROME. LOL IT HAS TO DO WITH THE REMAINS OF GENETIC PRINTS IN THESE PEOPLE. LOL
I don't know who you are talking about. What people? what genetic imprints? Name a specific person and their "genetic imprints" and the topic can be discussed. Again, stop bullshitting. Without examples of specific people you have nothing. This is about people who appear in art. Even Mike busted you for leaving out the titles of the paintings.
For instance if one is to look at the African presence in Europe and show a person in a painting. The first thing to do is find out who the person is supposed to be. Is it supposed to be a person living in Europe the time or is a religious picture depicting a scene from Judea that may or may not have really happened a thousand years prior.
Other people in this forum are not saying what you are saying. They are saying that not a few thousand years ago but only a few hundred years ago the kings and nobility of Europe was black people, not mulattos or trace African ancestry. They say there was a massive population replacement by whites only a few hundred years ago and there was been a massive conspiracy to conceal it by make fake paintings or alter paintings.
But you are too stupid and thick to notice this is what's being argued and you continue to pretend that this is simply an debate about African presence in Europe. You are simply too stupid to deal with. Yes it's a cycle. It's a cycle of you following me around and not knowing what part of town you are in.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Wait so what do albinos do when it is publicized that they are caught making fakes and artifacts have been reported as modern facts? I see them posted from time to time on the forums. Do our special guests go into illterate mode when those are posted? Do they suddenly stop being able to form logical conclusions or reasoning skills?
On a similar note a lot of these more fake portraits has everyone looking the same like during whatever time they create a bunch of fakes just used a handful of the same toons for the forgeries.
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