quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^This is quite child-like and bizarre. I thought it was joke when he posted it a couple of years ago but he actually believes this. Clyde is not normal.
You mean, child-like and bizarre like, Europeans lost their pigment in Europe to allow them to absorb more sunlight for Vitamin D, or BLUE EYES are a natural selection evolution?
I don't believe Dr. Winter's theory is quite as bizarre as those, why you swallowed.
Remember Rasol and MoM who 1st showed the paper with this bizarre theory? What happened to them and why haven't you followed them?
Then there's the Super Nova theory you subscribe to even Mike thinks that's crack pot.
Rasol and MoM left because they realized the illness was incurable.
Posts: 42936 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^This is quite child-like and bizarre. I thought it was joke when he posted it a couple of years ago but he actually believes this. Clyde is not normal.
You mean, child-like and bizarre like, Europeans lost their pigment in Europe to allow them to absorb more sunlight for Vitamin D, or BLUE EYES are a natural selection evolution?
I don't believe Dr. Winter's theory is quite as bizarre as those, why you swallowed.
Remember Rasol and MoM who 1st showed the paper with this bizarre theory? What happened to them and why haven't you followed them?
Then there's the Super Nova theory you subscribe to even Mike thinks that's crack pot.
Rasol and MoM left because they realized the illness was incurable.
Rasol and MoM left because they couldn't win any debates.Ausar left because he was like you; A white man pretending to be black.
So, do you attribute blond hair and blue eyes to natural selection, as per Hitler's Zionist Scientists and their, MASTER RACE?
Posts: 4693 | From: Saturn | Registered: Apr 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Narmerthoth: do you attribute blond hair and blue eyes to natural selection
The fact that there are millions of people of any kind existing presently is a result of selection of some sort, natural or sexual ( which is also part of nature)
Posts: 42936 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Narmerthoth: So, do you attribute blond hair and blue eyes to natural selection, as per Hitler's Zionist Scientists and their, MASTER RACE?
The fact that there are millions of people of any kind existing presently is a result of selection of some sort, natural or sexual ( which is also part of nature)
Typical Nazi Zionist non-response, but you are right in that losing melanin by extended living in a cave or by solar radiation can be viewed as, natural.
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posted
to clarify on average haplogroup R in Africa is under 1%. However some groups do have high frequencies, the Chad basin has some groups over 90% frequency of R-V88
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: to clarify on average haplogroup R in Africa is under 1%. However some groups do have high frequencies, the Chad basin has some groups over 90% frequency of R-V88
So?
To clarify:
"Africa as you've never seen it before: Clever comparison shows it's really as big as China, India, the United States AND most of Europe put together
Graphic shows Africa is as big as 13 nations and Eastern Europe The continent is more than 30m sq km, but this is not reflected in standard Mercator maps
Biggest nation in terms of landmass is Russia, at more than 17m sq ft
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^This is quite child-like and bizarre. I thought it was joke when he posted it a couple of years ago but he actually believes this. Clyde is not normal.
You mean, child-like and bizarre like, Europeans lost their pigment in Europe to allow them to absorb more sunlight for Vitamin D, or BLUE EYES are a natural selection evolution?
I don't believe Dr. Winter's theory is quite as bizarre as those, why you swallowed.
Remember Rasol and MoM who 1st showed the paper with this bizarre theory? What happened to them and why haven't you followed them?
Then there's the Super Nova theory you subscribe to even Mike thinks that's crack pot.
Rasol and MoM left because they realized the illness was incurable.
You accept a lot of white supremacy crackpot theories as credible and perfectly legal.
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: to clarify on average haplogroup R in Africa is under 1%. However some groups do have high frequencies, the Chad basin has some groups over 90% frequency of R-V88
So?
To clarify:
"Africa as you've never seen it before: Clever comparison shows it's really as big as China, India, the United States AND most of Europe put together
Graphic shows Africa is as big as 13 nations and Eastern Europe The continent is more than 30m sq km, but this is not reflected in standard Mercator maps
Biggest nation in terms of landmass is Russia, at more than 17m sq ft
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: to clarify on average haplogroup R in Africa is under 1%. However some groups do have high frequencies, the Chad basin has some groups over 90% frequency of R-V88
The phylogeography of R1 in Africa makes it clear that this y-chromosome is spread globally across Africa and includes the genetic structure of diverse African populations including Berber, Chadic, Cushitic, Khoisan,Pygmy, Niger-Congo, Nilo-Saharan and Semitic speaking African populations (Berniell-Lee et al, 2009; Cruciani et al, 2010; Wood et al, 2009). The fact that Dravidians carry the R haplogroup illustrate the recent introduction of R y-chromosome to Eurasia, because the Dravidians originally belonged to the C-Group of Nubia. Africans also carry haplogroup R1a. Research on y-haplogroups in Africa suggest that R1-M269 is also widespread in Africa.
Above is a figure from Gonzalez et al., of R1 in Guinea-Bissau. The Gonzalez et al article found that 10 out of 19 subjects in the study carried R1b1-P25 or M269. This is highly significant because it indicates that 53% of the R1 carriers in this study were M269, this finding is further proof of the widespread nature of this so-called Eurasian genes in Africa among populations that have not mated with Europeans . Moreover, Guinea-Bissau was a major area of origin of many slaves during the Atlantic Slave Trade, and, as a result the South American slaves probably already came to the New World carrying R-M269. The R1 haplogroup probably originated in Africa. The phylogeography of R1 in Africa makes it clear that this y-chromosome is spread globally across Africa and includes the genetic structure of diverse African populations including Berber, Chadic, Cushitic, Khoisan,Pygmy, Niger-Congo, Nilo-Saharan and Semitic speaking African populations (Berniell-Lee et al, 2009; Cruciani et al, 2010; Wood et al, 2009). The fact that Dravidians carry the R haplogroup illustrate the recent introduction of R y-chromosome to Eurasia.
Abu-Amero et al (20009) reveal the fact that Dravidians carry the R haplogroups illustrate the recent introduction of Ry-chromosomes to Eurasia. The frequency of haplotype M173 in Eurasia is as follows: Anatolia 0.19%, Iran 2.67%, Iraq 0.49% Oman 1.0%, Pakistan 0.57% and Oman 1.0% . This contrast sharply with the widespread distribution of R1 in Africa that ranges between 7- 95% in various parts of Africa, especially Cameroon (Coia et al, 2005). Coia et al (2005) has revealed that no maternal Eurasian lineages have been found among Sub-Saharan Africans with a R1- M173 profile. Haplogroup V88 has the greatest frequency in Africa. It is predominately carried by Chadic speakers, ranges between 2-60% among Central African Niger-Congo speakers (Cruciani et al, 2010). Researchers have found that the TMRCA of V88 was 9200-5600 kya (Cruciani et al, 2010).
The phylogenetically deep haplogroup R1b is mainly found in West Africa and the Sahel, where the frequency ranges between 85-100% among Niger Congo speakers (Cruciani et al, 2010). The paternal record of M173 on the African continent illustrates a greater distribution of this y-chromosome among varied African populations than, in Asia.
The greatest diversity of R1b in Africa is highly suggestive of an Africa origin for this male lineage. Archaeological (Lal, 1963), genetic (Winters, 2008;2010a), placenames (Balakrishnan, 2005) and linguistic data group (Aravanan,1979,1980; Upadhyaya, 1976,1979; Winters 1985a,1985b, 1989) linking Africans and Dravidian support the recent demic diffusion of SubSaharan Africans and gene flow from Africa to Eurasia. An early colonization of Eurasia 4kya by Sub-Saharan Africans and Dravidian carriers of R1-M173 is the best scenario to explain the high frequency and widespread geographical distribution of this y-chromosome on the African continent (Winters, 2010c). Given the greatest diversity of R1- M173, this is the most parsimonious model explaining the frequency of R-M173 in Africa. In conclusion, the R haplogroup probably originated in Africa. In my paper POSSIBLE AFRICAN ORIGIN OF Y-CHROMOSOME R1-M173 , I argue that the P clade originated in Africa because 1) the age of R-V88 and 2) the widespread nature of R1 in Africa. Researchers have found that the TMRCA of V88 was 9200-5600 kya (Cruciani et al, 2010). Eurasians carry the M269 (R1b1b2) mutation. The subclades of R1b1b2 include Rh1b1b2g (U106) (TMRCA 8.3kya) and R1b1b2h (U152) (TMRCA 7.4kya). The most recent common ancestor for R1b1b2 is probably 8kya (Balaresque et al, 2010).
In Africa we find R-M269 and V88. Clearly, R-V88 is older than R-M269 there is no evidence of archaeological evidence of a back migration or haplogroup R into Africa, but there is evidence of the migration of the Kushites and Proto-Sahara into Eurasia from Middle Africa. This supports the proposition the R haplogroups originated in Africa, not Eurasia. The fact remains that R-M269, is found among Sub-Saharan Africans from West, to East and Southern Africa. This supports my contention that this haplogroup is widespread in Africa.
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In India the Dravidian people carry the R1a haplogroup The Dravidian people of India originally lived in Middle Africa and belonged to the Proto-Saharan Civilization. The Proto-Saharan civilization was situated in the Proto-Sahara, which includes Cameroon. . . In Cameroon we find carriers of R1a. In addition to carriers of R1a in Cameroon; the Dravidian languages are still spoken today in Cameroon see:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWyAYGlFZjkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWyAYGlFZjk
In conclusion, the R macrohaplogroup probably originated in Africa. In my paper POSSIBLE AFRICAN ORIGIN OF Y-CHROMOSOME R1-M173 , I argue that the P clade originated in Africa because 1) the age of R-V88 and 2) the widespread nature of R1 in Africa.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Narmerthoth: I think moving forward, there needs to distinct labeling associated with how we describe albinos because they aren't all the same. Asian albinos aren't exactly physically and psychologically identical to European albinos, and of course, African albinos aren't the same either.
European albinos, because they have embraced their condition, forgotten their origins and strive to propagate their defect. They seem to be the extreme/worst case end of albinism, whereas African albinos fully comprehend their condition and pro-actively seek to breed it out in their next generation(s).
^^ This so much.
Being "white" myself, it had never really occurred to me before, but it shows you the power of language to be able to normalise what is essentially a genetic defect. Most whites of course have no idea of their origins as you say, even though the evidence is staring us right in the face. Whiteness is recessive after all. I tend to use the term "albinos" these days since it's more accurate, although I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it to catch on. There's still a huge amount of denial in the "white" population.
Having said that, European albino women sense - at least on a subconscious level - that something isn't right, and when given options we tend to seek out melanin and breed out whiteness. It's only possible to propagate the defect when living in relative isolation, with not enough normal, pigmented men competing with the albino men.
Posts: 7 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2017
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Give it up, you aren't White. You are a Black supremacist pretending to be White. You're probably Mike, or Narmer, or MOM pretending to be White. Whites are not nor have we ever been albinos. Consider your post
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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I have explained the modus operandi of Whites through the ages, and their survival mechanism for propagating the albinism defect through the generations. I would be thankful, if you could explain to me the phenomenon of denial in the so called White community and population, and please describe their ignorance as to their origins and how it plays out in real life.
Please look at this thread, where I have proven and theorized, that Whites/Euro-albinos have evolved an evolutionary survival mechanism of preserving their whiteness and albinism defect through multiple generations and through entire centuries on a per population basis:
quote:Originally posted by CelticWarrioress: AlisonUK,
Give it up, you aren't White. You are a Black supremacist pretending to be White. You're probably Mike, or Narmer, or MOM pretending to be White. Whites are not nor have we ever been albinos. Consider your post
. ^Nope, not me.
Think with you head, and not with your heart Doxie. It was never a good idea for you Albinos in Central Asia to perpetuate your condition by "Inbreeding".
Then after taking power, you do things to damage the Earths environment.
Silly fools, all you're doing is LESSENING your ability to survive on an Earth with STRONGER Sunlight!
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quote:Originally posted by Mindovermatter: AllisonUK
I have explained the modus operandi of Whites through the ages, and their survival mechanism for propagating the albinism defect through the generations. I would be thankful, if you could explain to me the phenomenon of denial in the so called White community and population, and please describe their ignorance as to their origins and how it plays out in real life.
Please look at this thread, where I have proven and theorized, that Whites/Euro-albinos have evolved an evolutionary survival mechanism of preserving their whiteness and albinism defect through multiple generations and through entire centuries on a per population basis:
The majority of "whites" simply aren't aware. There's probably only a few thousand whites in the entire world who understand the true origin and nature of "whiteness", unfortunately these people happen to be ones in positions of power, which is how they've been able to normalise whiteness for so long.
Hard to pinpoint the exact moment when it began, but at some point, most likely to due to extreme climatic changes, there were small groups of geographically-isolated "whites", and this led to excessive inbreeding, otherwise whiteness wouldn't have survived more than a generation. This allowed defective and recessives genes to flourish in a way that normally wouldn't happen in nature.
Even before modern genetic science proved that whiteness is a defect, the recessive nature of whiteness was instinctively understood, and there was a subconscious fear of genetic annihilation which I've never been able to relate to that much. This fear is most profound when living in close proximity to humans with normal amounts of melanin and can cause intense feelings of genetic inadequacy, which in turn leads to defense mechanisms such as white supremacy. White supremacy is nature flipped on its head, and it's the result of overcompensating for subconscious - or often conscious - feelings of inferiority.
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posted
To disguise the African ancestry of the ancient Europeans Geno-Hamiticists change the name/number of African haplogroups to differentiate them from Europeans carrying the same haplogroup. R1b1 and Rlb1a were clades belonging to V88.
R1b1 and R1b1a do not change just because you give it a different number. Below is Cruciani et al (2010).
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Researchers give ancient DNA what ever number they wish. For example Haak et al (2015) claims I0124 (Samara_HG) is R1b1, while Iain Mathieson et al 2017, claims I0124 is R1b1a1a. How can the same individual be assigned two different R1 clades. The same thing is obvious in labeling I0124 (Samara_HG) R1b1 ( L278) and I0410 (Spain_EN) R1b1 (M415).
This is nothing but Trickology, an attempt to make it appear the individuals were not Sub-Saharan African.
posted
Now Geneticists are pretending V88 (R1b1a2) is M269 in relation to the migration of the CHG and EF populations from Africa into Eurasia, These Africans, the Kushites who introduced archery, farming and cattle rearing to Eurasia.
Martiniano R, Cassidy LM, Ó'Maoldúin R, McLaughlin R, Silva NM, Manco L, et al. (2017) The population genomics of archaeological transition in west Iberia: Investigation of ancient substructure using imputation and haplotype-based methods. PLoS Genet 13(7): e1006852. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pgen.1006852
. Abstract
Recent ancient DNA work has demonstrated the significant genetic impact of mass migrations from the Steppe into Central and Northern Europe during the transition from the Neolithic to the Bronze Age. In Iberia, archaeological change at the level of material culture and funerary rituals has been reported during this period, however, the genetic impact associated with this cultural transformation has not yet been estimated. In order to investigate this, we sequence Neolithic and Bronze Age samples from Portugal, which we compare to other ancient and present-day individuals. Genome-wide imputation of a large dataset of ancient samples enabled sensitive methods for detecting population structure and selection in ancient samples. We revealed subtle genetic differentiation between the Portuguese Neolithic and Bronze Age samples suggesting a markedly reduced influx in Iberia compared to other European regions. Furthermore, we predict individual height in ancients, suggesting that stature was reduced in the Neolithic and affected by subsequent admixtures. Lastly, we examine signatures of strong selection in important traits and the timing of their origins. .
The authors argue that the three Bronze Age individuals carrying R1b1a2, represent R-M269, but this is false they represent V88 and M18. Moreover, they fail to show discontinuity because, we find R1b1a (R-L754) carried by Villabruna, who lived 15kya in north-west Italy, and was a member of the Epigravettian culture. R-L754 has a high frequentcy among Africans.
V88 and the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype
Euronuts have no limit to their blatant and stealthily rewriting of history to "whiteout" Black and African people. The aDNA of the CHG and EF of Europe is R1b1a2. Although ISOGG 216 makes it clear this haplogroup is V88, in the research literature they are referring to this clade (R1b1a2) as R1b-P312/M269 , eventhough M269 is R1b1a1a2.
The presence of R1b1a2 in Europe is explained by the migration of the Kushites into Europe via Gibraltar and Anatolia
V88 and the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype Euronuts have no limit to their blatant and stealthily rewriting of history to "whiteout" Black and African people. The aDNA of the CHG and EF of Europe is R1b1a2. Although ISOGG 216 makes it clear this haplogroup is V88, in the research literature they are referring to this clade (R1b1a2) as R1b-P312/M269 , eventhough M269 is R1b1a1a2.
The presence of R1b1a2 in Europe is explained by the migration of the Kushites into Europe via Gibraltar and Anatolia
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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the part of the chart does not include R-M207 the basal R that is the ancestor of R1 and R2 which would be above this section
It also doesn't show the R2 phylogeny which would be at left of this section
Anyway we can see as M343 descends it splits into P297 (something Clyde never mentions) and R-V88
If we look at the descendants of P297 we see M269 at left and at right various clades in red lines M478 , Y13200 and other clades represented by the red lines but unnumbered These clades are not descendants of M269, They are siblings part of a split from P297.
Downstream of M269 is R1b1'9 and R1b11 and various subclades
Now going to the far right of the chart the black line is V88. It has some subclades but none are shown.
The red lines at the right are siblings of V88 but are not descendants of V88. Those are early hunter gatherers (H) and farmers (F) in Europe
So anything on a horizontal line are siblings the parent is the straight line above the horizontal line. In this case M343
The ancestor to all of this is in Eurasia somewhere R* One place possible is Siberia because they found very old remains there carrying R*
Anyway what happened is people from that population went their separate ways into Central Asia, Europe and Africa
and in those places mutated into various different subclades
R1b1 was recognized as an African genome. Africans carry R1b1, the name for this haplogroup was changed to R-L278. ,
Kivisild chart is a lie.Look at ISOGG 2016 here it is made clear that R1b1 is upstream of M269, not downstream to R1b-M269. R1b-M269=R1b1a1a2, this is downstream to R1b1.
This Figure by Kivisild, illustrates how Eurocentrist have no limit to their blatant and stealthily rewriting of history to "whiteout" Black and African people. The aDNA of the CHG and EF of Europe is R1b1a2. Although ISOGG 2016 makes it clear this haplogroup is V88, in the research literature they are referring to this clade (R1b1a2) as R1b-P312/M269 , eventhough M269 is R1b1a1a2. Clearly, R1b1a2 is downstream to R1b1a1a2 or R1b-M269.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: R1b1 was recognized as an African genome. Africans carry R1b1, the name for this haplogroup was changed to R-L278.
Because Africans carry a gene does not prove it originated there (10o0th time)
quote:
R1b1* L278
R1b1* or R-L278* is rare among modern males. However, it has been found in two skeletons from prehistoric Europe: a male from the Mesolithic Samara culture (a pre-Yamna people who lived immediately north of the Caspian Sea) buried in about 5650–5555 BCE, and a male from the early Neolithic Cardial culture, buried in about 5178–5066 BCE at the Els Trocs site in the Pyrenees (modern Aragon, Spain).[34]
Some examples described in older articles, for example two found in Turkey,[23] are now thought to be mostly in the more recently discovered sub-clade R1b1a2 (R-V88). Most examples of R1b therefore fall into subclades R1b1a2 (R-V88) or R1b1a (R-P297). Cruciani et al. in the large 2010 study found 3 cases amongst 1173 Italians, 1 out of 328 West Asians and 1 out of 156 East Asians.[33] Varzari found 3 cases in the Ukraine, in a study of 322 people from the Dniester-Carpathian Mountains region, who were P25 positive, but M269 negative.[35] Cases from older studies are mainly from Africa, the Middle East or Mediterranean, and are discussed below as probable cases of R1b1a2 (R-V88).
So what you are not understanding is they are just changing names new haplgrouos are defined by new alleles.
THAT MEANS that when new genes are discovered samples that were part of an ancestor group have to be reviewed to see if they have the alleles of newly sub clade or not.
Of course I don't expect to to get this or acknowledge it.
You take new information and try to define it be old nomenclature. That's trickery
Posts: 42936 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: R1b1 was recognized as an African genome. Africans carry R1b1, the name for this haplogroup was changed to R-L278.
Because Africans carry a gene does not prove it originated there (10o0th time)
quote:
R1b1* L278
R1b1* or R-L278* is rare among modern males. However, it has been found in two skeletons from prehistoric Europe: a male from the Mesolithic Samara culture (a pre-Yamna people who lived immediately north of the Caspian Sea) buried in about 5650–5555 BCE, and a male from the early Neolithic Cardial culture, buried in about 5178–5066 BCE at the Els Trocs site in the Pyrenees (modern Aragon, Spain).[34]
Some examples described in older articles, for example two found in Turkey,[23] are now thought to be mostly in the more recently discovered sub-clade R1b1a2 (R-V88). Most examples of R1b therefore fall into subclades R1b1a2 (R-V88) or R1b1a (R-P297). Cruciani et al. in the large 2010 study found 3 cases amongst 1173 Italians, 1 out of 328 West Asians and 1 out of 156 East Asians.[33] Varzari found 3 cases in the Ukraine, in a study of 322 people from the Dniester-Carpathian Mountains region, who were P25 positive, but M269 negative.[35] Cases from older studies are mainly from Africa, the Middle East or Mediterranean, and are discussed below as probable cases of R1b1a2 (R-V88).
So what you are not understanding is they are just changing names new haplgrouos are defined by new alleles.
THAT MEANS that when new genes are discovered samples that were part of an ancestor group have to be reviewed to see if they have the alleles of newly sub clade or not.
Of course I don't expect to to get this or acknowledge it.
You take new information and try to define it be old nomenclature. That's trickery
Stop making stuff up.
It is the geneticists who make up lies to deny the genetic history of African people. The aDNA of the CHG and EF of Europe is R1b1a2. Although ISOGG 2016 makes it clear this haplogroup is V88, in the research literature they are referring to this clade (R1b1a2) as R1b-P312/M269 , eventhough M269 is R1b1a1a2. Clearly, R1b1a2 is downstream to R1b1a1a2 or R1b-M269.
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