Mena: This is probably the tomb of the Ancient Black Chinese from the Han dynasty.
Mystery of the 'pyramid of China': Archaeologists discover strange tomb under a construction site Ancient burial site has been found under a construction site in Zhengzhou, central China Local residents were amazed by the findings, calling the pyramid-shaped tomb 'magical' Further analysis is expected to reveal how old the tomb is and who the owner was
Some experts however said such tombs are not uncommon and they appeared after Han Dynasty The pyramid-shaped tomb has been found under a construction site in Zhengzhou, central China's Henan Province
It's one of the two tombs found inside a coffin chamber near a grove. The other tomb is shaped like a half
Posts: 5374 | From: sepedat/sirius | Registered: Jul 2012
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posted
Correction, this is probably a tomb from the Xia dynasty, the most Ancient Chinese dynasty and the Chinese dynasty that was originally most likely Black.
The next Shang, Zhou, Qin and Tang dynasties were all set up and created by White Indo-European and Eurasian peoples from Siberia and Central Asia; the Han dynasty was basically the result of the original Black Chinese being completely quadroonized and mulatto-ized by the preceding White Shang, Zhou, Qin, and Tang peoples.....
Posts: 1558 | From: US | Registered: Sep 2015
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quote:Originally posted by Mindovermatter: Correction, this is probably a tomb from the Xia dynasty, the most Ancient Chinese dynasty and the Chinese dynasty that was originally most likely Black.
The next Shang, Zhou, Qin and Tang dynasties were all set up and created by White Indo-European and Eurasian peoples from Siberia and Central Asia; the Han dynasty was basically the result of the original Black Chinese being completely quadroonized and mulatto-ized by the preceding White Shang, Zhou, Qin, and Tang peoples.....
Blacks were already in China before the Xia and Shang Empires.
Blacks entered China from two directions. Some Blacks landed along the coast with a megalithic culture that migrated up to Central Asia replacing the Anu .
A second group entered China via Central Asia. these people were mainly Kushites.
The Xia, mainly came from Elam in their chariots.
The Xia Dynasty was founded by the Mande speakers. The First Shang Dynasty was founded by the Dravidians. The Anyang Shang Dynasty was founded by the Classical Mongoloid people related to the Indonesians and Filipino types.The Zhou was the first Chinese Mongoloid Asian Dynasty.
The Xia and Shang were called Li Min by the Zhou, or "Black Heads", like the Sumerians.
The Mongoloid people exterminated the Black Chinese in most cases, and pushed them into Southeast Asia and Central Asia. From here some of the Blacks migrated into India.
None of the Chinese dynasties were founded by whites.
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It's obvious that the Zhou and Shang and Qin and Tang dynasties were all set up by White Indo-European types. When you search up Tang dynasty tomb guardian figures, you see guards and figures that looks basically look like White people and not modern mongoloids.
Likewise the Zhou came from the Siberian steppes and were originally vassals of the Shang; the Zhou like the proto-Indo-European of the steppes and the Kurgan peoples; had highly patriarchal feudal societies, sacrificed white horses, and buried their nobles and kings with chariots and horses, which was something unique to the proto-Indo-European peoples of the steppes and was replicated in Europe by them and not anyone else.
The Zhou were a nomadic "barbarian" steppe pastoral nomadic peoples that were originally foreigners to Ancient China and then took over China from the outside from around the manchuria siberia area; even the emperor of the Zhou dynasty was said in Chinese records to be of barbarian origins. They overthrew the preceding Shang dynasty, just like the Germanic and Gothic barbarians overthrew Rome and the Gutians overthrew the Sumerians, and the Turks and Mamluks overthrew the Arabs.
The Zhou were pioneers in wheeled vehicle and chariot technology, and they introduced the invention of a chariot drawn by four horses. The only other civilization that had horses drawn exclusively by four horses instead of two, were Ancient Indians and Persians, and then the later Romans; infact the chariots used by the Zhou dynasty are and were nearly identical to the chariots used by the supposed Aryan peoples in India.
The Shang also were White Indo-European types; Huang Di, the founder and progenitor of the Shang dynasty and the later Xia dynasties; was a founding god hood figure of Ancient Chinese civilization. Huang Di was also of barbarian origins, and was said to belong to a pastoral herder clan of the steppes OUTSIDE OF ANCIENT CHINA, and he introduced chariot technology, metallurgy, the compass, writing to the then Chinese from the West of Ancient China, FROM OUTSIDE OF ANCIENT CHINA PROPER! He was an outsider figure to the China area.....
When you look at a Shang dynasty location on a world map, and then take your finger and go west from that latitude of the Shang dynasty location in Ancient China, your finger arrives at the region of Central Asia.
Central Asia and Siberia during the time of the Shang/Xia dynasties was the homeland of the White Indo-European tribes like the Saka's, Scythians, Tocharians, Seres, Androvono peoples, Wusun, Tarim, Kurgans, Xiongnu, Sarmatians etc etc. Infact in the Tian Shan mountains West of China during the time of the Xia dynasty in Ancient China; archeologists have found skeletons and burials of White Indo-European types peoples. And Haung Di came from West from outside of Ancient China from this very region of Central Asia according to Chinese annals and records.
There is only one way on land and foot to invade Ancient China by a land invasion force. And that's through an open land entrance through Siberia and Manchuria to the China region, which the imperial Japanese and Mongols and the Manchu's used to take over Ancient China.
Huang Di was a male masculine patriarchal father god figure founder, whom again belonged to a pastoral unruly herder clan of the Eurasian steppes; like the Indo-European god Zeus of Greek mythology, Thor of Germanic mythology, and Indra of Indian Hindu mythology. He was a lightning god figure, and the totem pole of the clan he belonged to was represented by the bear. Because of this the clan and peoples of Huang Di came and originated from the Eurasian steppes and came to and took over Ancient China from the Siberian entrance to Ancient China from the steppes. The major Indo-European speaking country in the modern world, that is represented by the bear, IS RUSSIA!
Haung Di's clan was an White Indo-European tribe of the Eurasian steppes and the mythology of him represents an Ancient Indo-European invasion and take over of Ancient China by barbarian Indo-European pastoral steppe peoples.
Just like how Zeus the god figure and Thor the Germanic god figure represented intrusive pastoral masculine god element, so too does Haung Di's figure as a lightning god and father progenitor masculine figure with an outside steppe origin represent an White Indo-European intrusion into Ancient China. When you look at Shang dynasty masks and artifacts today, you see faces that do not resemble modern mongoloid Han Chinese, but rather Indo-European type peoples.
Huang Di's clan also revered an animal called the Siu, the Siu was a tiger/lion feline animal with the wings of an eagle, which is similar to the Indo-European griffin, which simply again pin points to HaungDi being an Indo-European god figure and his clan, a White Indo-European clan.
Pi-Xiu animal that was worshipped by HuangDi' herder tribe:
Lions and Tiger's are today most profilic in India and South Asia in Asia today; this is an obvious giveaway as to Huang Di and his clan that founded the Shang dynasty being of White Indo-European steppe origins. The pixiu would later evolve into the European Griffin animal when it traveled to Europe.....
Even the population of Linzi in Ancient China as late as the Zhou dynasty was found to have more in common with present White Indo-European populations then modern day mongoloid Han peoples.
quote:To examine temporal changes in population genetic structure, we compared the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequences of three populations that lived in the same location, Linzi, China, in different periods: 2,500 years ago (the Spring–Autumn era), 2,000 years ago (the Han era), and the present day. Two indices were used to compare the genetic differences: the frequency distributions of the radiating haplotype groups and the genetic distances among the populations. The results indicate that the genetic backgrounds of the three populations are distinct from each other. Inconsistent with the geographical distribution, the 2,500-year-old Linzi population showed greater genetic similarity to present-day European populations than to present-day east Asian populations.
The 2,000-year-old Linzi population had features that were intermediate between the present-day European/2,500-year-old Linzi populations and the present-day east Asian populations. These relationships suggest the occurrence of drastic spatiotemporal changes in the genetic structure of Chinese people during the past 2,500 years.
The Shang, Zhou, Qin and Tang dynasties of Ancient China were all set up and created by White Eurasian Indo-European peoples or Eurasian Turkic peoples of the Central Asian and Siberian steppes in Ancient times, and the evidence pin points to that direction sorry to say!
The Xia dynasty represents the original Black Asiatic dynasty civilization of Ancient China, until overtaken by the later Indo-European/Turkic Shang, Zhou, Qin, and Tang dynasties, which were all White....
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quote:Originally posted by Mindovermatter: [QB] It's obvious that the Zhou and Shang and Qin and Tang dynasties were all set up by White Indo-European types.
posted
As much as lioness is trolling,the Chinese people don't have the central Asian look outside the Uyghurs.
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They do have a White look today, just look at how many Pale Chinese people there are; that's not by coincidence either; there are also Whites that live in Western China not even in Xinjiang and I'm talking original Indo-European whites.
Just look at how many pale Chinese there are in a photo like this:
^^^^Their features and skin tone, look like the mestizo and castizo/quadroon populations of places like Mexico and Latin America. I have seen many mexican immigrants and peoples with nearly identical skin tones and features as the people in this picture!
Modern mongoloid Han chinese people are not a homogenous population, Northern Chinese look different then Southern Chinese, and one Northern Chinese person said online once that I saw, that when he went to Southern China, he felt as though he belonged to a different race of people literally.
Modern Chinese, like the population of Latin America and Mexico, are basically a mestizo and mulatto/quadroon population of varying amounts and that pretty is the so called Han Chinese people in it's entirety. They are basically a mongrel mestizo or mulatto like people.
This is the reason why the Chinese were called "yellow" or the "yellow race" and were characterized by the "yellow peril". Many mulatto's of half black and half white pairings even today come out with yellow-ish looking skin like here:
Basically when this happens through centuries of admixture and through varying amounts of mixing in giant population waves through different time periods in the different regions of China:
This:
Combined with this:
You get the modern mongoloid Han Chinese groups in the different quadrant regions of modern Chinese save for isolated areas in the West and South and in the North.
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quote:Originally posted by Mindovermatter: It's obvious that the Zhou and Shang and Qin and Tang dynasties were all set up by White Indo-European types.
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If Zhou and Shang and Qin and Tang dynasties were all set up by White Indo-European types why do they have Epicanthic eye folds and to a large extent bone straight thick black hair while Europeans don't have epicanthic eye folds and while some have straight hair many don't, wavy or curly
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Mindovermatter: It's obvious that the Zhou and Shang and Qin and Tang dynasties were all set up by White Indo-European types. When you search up Tang dynasty tomb guardian figures, you see guards and figures that looks basically look like White people and not modern mongoloids.
Likewise the Zhou came from the Siberian steppes and were originally vassals of the Shang; the Zhou like the proto-Indo-European of the steppes and the Kurgan peoples; had highly patriarchal feudal societies, sacrificed white horses, and buried their nobles and kings with chariots and horses, which was something unique to the proto-Indo-European peoples of the steppes and was replicated in Europe by them and not anyone else.
The Zhou were a nomadic "barbarian" steppe pastoral nomadic peoples that were originally foreigners to Ancient China and then took over China from the outside from around the manchuria siberia area; even the emperor of the Zhou dynasty was said in Chinese records to be of barbarian origins. They overthrew the preceding Shang dynasty, just like the Germanic and Gothic barbarians overthrew Rome and the Gutians overthrew the Sumerians, and the Turks and Mamluks overthrew the Arabs.
The Zhou were pioneers in wheeled vehicle and chariot technology, and they introduced the invention of a chariot drawn by four horses. The only other civilization that had horses drawn exclusively by four horses instead of two, were Ancient Indians and Persians, and then the later Romans; infact the chariots used by the Zhou dynasty are and were nearly identical to the chariots used by the supposed Aryan peoples in India.
The Shang also were White Indo-European types; Huang Di, the founder and progenitor of the Shang dynasty and the later Xia dynasties; was a founding god hood figure of Ancient Chinese civilization. Huang Di was also of barbarian origins, and was said to belong to a pastoral herder clan of the steppes OUTSIDE OF ANCIENT CHINA, and he introduced chariot technology, metallurgy, the compass, writing to the then Chinese from the West of Ancient China, FROM OUTSIDE OF ANCIENT CHINA PROPER! He was an outsider figure to the China area.....
When you look at a Shang dynasty location on a world map, and then take your finger and go west from that latitude of the Shang dynasty location in Ancient China, your finger arrives at the region of Central Asia.
Central Asia and Siberia during the time of the Shang/Xia dynasties was the homeland of the White Indo-European tribes like the Saka's, Scythians, Tocharians, Seres, Androvono peoples, Wusun, Tarim, Kurgans, Xiongnu, Sarmatians etc etc. Infact in the Tian Shan mountains West of China during the time of the Xia dynasty in Ancient China; archeologists have found skeletons and burials of White Indo-European types peoples. And Haung Di came from West from outside of Ancient China from this very region of Central Asia according to Chinese annals and records.
There is only one way on land and foot to invade Ancient China by a land invasion force. And that's through an open land entrance through Siberia and Manchuria to the China region, which the imperial Japanese and Mongols and the Manchu's used to take over Ancient China.
Huang Di was a male masculine patriarchal father god figure founder, whom again belonged to a pastoral unruly herder clan of the Eurasian steppes; like the Indo-European god Zeus of Greek mythology, Thor of Germanic mythology, and Indra of Indian Hindu mythology. He was a lightning god figure, and the totem pole of the clan he belonged to was represented by the bear. Because of this the clan and peoples of Huang Di came and originated from the Eurasian steppes and came to and took over Ancient China from the Siberian entrance to Ancient China from the steppes. The major Indo-European speaking country in the modern world, that is represented by the bear, IS RUSSIA!
Haung Di's clan was an White Indo-European tribe of the Eurasian steppes and the mythology of him represents an Ancient Indo-European invasion and take over of Ancient China by barbarian Indo-European pastoral steppe peoples.
Just like how Zeus the god figure and Thor the Germanic god figure represented intrusive pastoral masculine god element, so too does Haung Di's figure as a lightning god and father progenitor masculine figure with an outside steppe origin represent an White Indo-European intrusion into Ancient China. When you look at Shang dynasty masks and artifacts today, you see faces that do not resemble modern mongoloid Han Chinese, but rather Indo-European type peoples.
Huang Di's clan also revered an animal called the Siu, the Siu was a tiger/lion feline animal with the wings of an eagle, which is similar to the Indo-European griffin, which simply again pin points to HaungDi being an Indo-European god figure and his clan, a White Indo-European clan.
Pi-Xiu animal that was worshipped by HuangDi' herder tribe:
Lions and Tiger's are today most profilic in India and South Asia in Asia today; this is an obvious giveaway as to Huang Di and his clan that founded the Shang dynasty being of White Indo-European steppe origins. The pixiu would later evolve into the European Griffin animal when it traveled to Europe.....
Even the population of Linzi in Ancient China as late as the Zhou dynasty was found to have more in common with present White Indo-European populations then modern day mongoloid Han peoples.
quote:To examine temporal changes in population genetic structure, we compared the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequences of three populations that lived in the same location, Linzi, China, in different periods: 2,500 years ago (the Spring–Autumn era), 2,000 years ago (the Han era), and the present day. Two indices were used to compare the genetic differences: the frequency distributions of the radiating haplotype groups and the genetic distances among the populations. The results indicate that the genetic backgrounds of the three populations are distinct from each other. Inconsistent with the geographical distribution, the 2,500-year-old Linzi population showed greater genetic similarity to present-day European populations than to present-day east Asian populations.
The 2,000-year-old Linzi population had features that were intermediate between the present-day European/2,500-year-old Linzi populations and the present-day east Asian populations. These relationships suggest the occurrence of drastic spatiotemporal changes in the genetic structure of Chinese people during the past 2,500 years.
The Shang, Zhou, Qin and Tang dynasties of Ancient China were all set up and created by White Eurasian Indo-European peoples or Eurasian Turkic peoples of the Central Asian and Siberian steppes in Ancient times, and the evidence pin points to that direction sorry to say!
The Xia dynasty represents the original Black Asiatic dynasty civilization of Ancient China, until overtaken by the later Indo-European/Turkic Shang, Zhou, Qin, and Tang dynasties, which were all White....
Stop making stuff up. There is no archaeological or linguistic evidence supporting Indo-Europeans in ancient China.
It is obvious you have not read any Chinese archaeological and history text.
The Zhou did not introduce anything to China. The Chinese text make it clear that the Shang and Zhou got their civilization from the Xia. The Zhou came to power around 1000BC.
You don't know what you're talking about. The Xia introduced chariots when they came from Elam.
The Siu or Xiu was not a lion, it was the clan name of the Mande rulers of the Xia Dynasty.
King Nakhunte or Huang Di was not Egyptian, he was Mande speaker and belonged to the Kunte clan. The Mande were also the Elamites who introduced the chariot to ancient China.
The Chinese tradition that Hu Nak Kunte > Huang Di came from the west around 2282 B.C.
There were no white people living West of China around 2200 BC. They don't appear in history until the coming of the People of the Sea.
Huang Di introduced writing , ceramics, the chariot and etc., is interesting because it suggest that some rulers of Elam and China came from the Kunte/Kunta clan.As discussed earlier the Kunta clan originated in Africa.
The Elamites/Old Persians were probably descendants of the Mande people. This is obvious in the language and names of the Elamite Kings. I hope you remember the book Roots, the main character Kunte Kinte. His name is interesting because we have the following ruler during the Sukkalmah Dynasty: Kutur-Nahhunte I (c. 1752) who conquered southern Babylonia The name Kutur Nahhunte, would correspond to a popular Mande name Kunte among the Mande speaking people. The Elamite name Peli, is also popular among the Mande, in the form of Pe, this name was also common among the Olmec people of ancient Mexico.
It should also be noted that the Mande term for people is Si, this corresponds to the word Su, used to designate the mountain people of Elam. The Elamite term Su would correspond to the Mande termSi-u (the /u/ is the plural suffix in the Mande language).
By the 2nd Millennium B.C., a new more aggressive dynasty appeared in Elam. The Kings of this Dynasty called themselves ‘divine messenger, father and king’ of Susa and Anzan. One of the rulers of this Dynasty was Shutruk-Nahhunte. Shutruk-Nahhunte, like Kutur invaded Mesopotamia and took Babylon around 1160B.C.
After Kutur took Babylon, the Elamites ruled Babylon until Hammurabi defeated the Elamite King Rin-Sin. Later the Elamites were driven from Larsa and other Sumerian cities back to the Susiana plains.
An African origin for the Kunte/Kunta clan would also explain the genetic relationship between the Elamite and Manding languages on the one hand, and the Manding substratum of the Chinese language on the other hand.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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Archeologists know the pattern now in every countries you find pyramid Black people use to live there in ancient time. Black people are the one who built most of the ancent pyramids in the World.
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^^^^I like how a certain scholar, repeatedly ignores the fact that I posted a mainstream source and even linguistic and mythological evidence, as well as topographical evidence and then outright ignores it and then claims I am making stuff up. I didn't know esteemed scholars and learned persons could stoop so low, ignore contrary evidence and then lie and make stuff up right in front of my face.
And his stance also contradicts the premise of the Aryan invasion into India, for if this person supports an Aryan intrusion in Ancient India, why wouldn't there be one of Ancient China, especially given the fact that China is RIGHT NEXT DOOR to India geographically, and RIGHT NEXT TO CENTRAL ASIA, the homeland of the Indo-European peoples in the Ancient time period? The positions and stances of so called scholarly people on this forum are all contradictory and don't make sense sometimes and are not logically consistent!
And the claim that Central Asia did not have Indo-European type peoples is a hilarious and obvious lie and it's mainstream scientific fact now that Central Asia had major Indo-european populations in ancient times; central Asia was filled and rife with Indo-European white peoples like the Scythians and Saka's and Rouron, and Wusun and Tocharians and Seres and every mainstream historical accounts by major civilizations of central Asia illustrate the presence of Indo-European whites in that region. infact Indo-European remains have been found in the Tian Shan mountains of China, I am sorry but this is mainstream scientific research and evidence that has confirmed this.
It's obvious that Huang Di represents an Indo-European nomadic steppe herder intrusion into Ancient China from the West. The West of Ancient China is central Asia and the Tian Shan mountains, which in ancient times was filled primarily by White Indo-European type peoples like the Saka's and Scythians etc etc etc, particularly during the time of the Xia.
I'm sorry to say, but all the recent archeological and linguistic and mythological and even historical and even geographical evidence shows that the Shang, Zhou, Qin and Tang were all barbarian dynasties that were setup by steppe Eurasian white barbarian peoples from Central Asia and Siberia and I have proved it multiple times already. Outright ignoring contrary evidence and then blatantly lying in a OCD manner just to hold on to out dated beliefs is not going to make reality go away.
And BTW Haung Di was called the Yellow emperor, not because of a sinitic origin or belonging to the "yellow race"; but because colors in Ancient Indo-European languages denoted cardinal direction, like in the slavic languages as an example. So yellow, in yellow emperor means "center", as in "center kingdom" or "emperor of the center kingdomn"; another obvious give away as to the Huang Di's figures Indo-European white Eurasian steppe herder origins. And yes, they did find Europid type skeletons in Zhou burials recently
I will finish off with this post by an actual Chinese person from China, about Indo-European white intrusive elements in Ancient Chinese history and civilization:
quote: (This was posted on another thread almost two years ago by a FReeper named "genealogy_prober" and is the only thing he ever posted. I agree with what he posted and suspect that he is Chinese)
I detected there was an essay concerning the ethnic consist of "Wu Hu" which invaded China during the Jin Dynasty. The author's view was that the Turk which raided China later was a Caucasian tribe (there Khan described as with green eyes and red cheek, more evidance available) , "Wu Hu" (Xiongnu, Jie, Qiang, Di, Xianbei) were not.
But according to the Chinese ancient historical annual, the Xiongnu are such Nordic tribe with red hair and blue eyes like "Wushun". And, Jie, which was a branch of Xiongnu, also described as with high Nose Bridge, and "deep" eyes.
After the collapse of their ruling to Han, the Jie people was distinguished easily because of their Caucasian feature and slaughtered (more than 200,000 victims). The historical work of the later dynasties also described the remained Xiongnu people as "Long nose" and "yellow hair".
Until Tang dynasty, the "Qi Hu" which is the offspring of the royal Xiongnu people, still called "Hu tou Han se" which mean's they adopt the Chinese tongue, but still "foreign" feature. Much other evidence can support the standpoint that Xiongnu are Caucasion, I don't want to illustrate any more. Some people believe the Xiongnu are Mongolian race, because the Roman historian said the Hun people who invaded were"brown skin, stocky body, slanting eyes" which are typical Mongolian trait.
But, actually, the Hun who invaded Europe 5th century was not the descendant of Xiongnu. The contemporary scholars affirm they are the identical tribe just because the pronunciation of "Hun" and "Xiongnu" are approximately the same. And there is some relationship between their languege.
I also want to point out that around the 5th and 6th century, there's another branch of "Hun" ruined the Persia and Northwest India, that Branch was called "White Hun" The Persian historian said that thier feature were different from "Hun", with white body.
Hence, it seemed that, they were also Caucasian. Now, let's come to Xianbei, many people noticed that, in the historical book, the Xianbei people were called "Bai Lu" means white invader (thief). And in the Great Work <>, I found the following story--The Emperor Of Eastern Jin, Jin Ming Di (Shima Shao), was with yellow beard and hair, because his mother was a Xianbei female.
Once he went to inspect his troop without notice, And the warriors all considered him as Xianbei people, then chased him as enemy. The folk songs at that time said, "Huang tou Xianbei jin Luoyang"--Xianbei is with "yellow head", it is quite possible that "yellow head" referred to their yellow hair and beard.
Xianbei is an alliance of tribes; there might also be some Mongolian tribes in it, but the Caucasian consist was more obvious, which all Hans paid attention to it. I'm inclined to be in approval of what Mr. Peng elaborated yesterday.
The contemporary Chinese people don't dwell on the ethnic origin of the nation, most of them believe they are simply Mongolian race. That's not a correct concept. The racial intermix in china began before any dynasty, but the Neolithic time.
The skulls unearthed in the relics of Banpo Xi'an reveal the trait of Caucasian, exactly, the Nordish Caucasian. The Banpo civilian used to be the hybrid of Nordish and Mongolian (like the Finn today).
We all know, the Banpo is the representative civilization of the Northern China Neolithic civilizations, we can infer, many other Chinese civilizations in that time were created by Caucasian or mingled people.
The Hemudu in Zhejiang is the representative Neolithic civilization in Southern China. But after measuring the skulls detected there, it was extremely amazed that, they're of Negro characteristics!
One renowned Chinese anthropologist stated in his work that "According to the numerous skeletons of Indo-Europe people unearthed in China and the feature of the Southern Chinese people today, the Chinese nation can't be classified into the Mongolian race simply.
At an earlier time, many Chinese anthropologists also clarify that it's completely wrong to say the ancient skeletons discovered in China belong to the same race. The Mongolian couldn't be regarded as the only "Local Chinese".
The Caucasian also had been inhabited in Eastern Asia since very early time. In Japan, the aboriginal Ainu people was finally confessed as the ancestor of current Japanese nation. The Ainu was the Caucasian tribe moved to the Japanese islands more than 20,000 years ago, while the Mongolian just reached Japan around 10,000 years ago. They intermixed and yielded the Japanese people now.
The same procedure of intermixing also took place in Korea.
Another famous event happened last year also support the idea--some researchers of biochemistry analyzed the DNA refined from the mummies in some ancient tombs in Shangdong province, and made a conclusion that these DNA correspond that of the European people. Another research discovered that the gene of Northern Chinese is more close to the Caucasian, rather than the Southern Chinese.
The origin of Zhou, The third Dynasty of ancient China, is also doubtful. The time of the establishment of that dynasty is not far from the time of Aryan Expansion. The chariot used by the soldiers of Zhou just resembles the chariot used by Aryan invaders to India!
More critical, the ancient Chinese work written by Mengzi said that, Zhou Wen Wang (the emperor of Zhou) is the people of "western barbarians" It's quite possible that a branch of Aryan intruded china at the moving of Aryan.
Someone even suspect the origin of the Qin Dynasty, which was the subsequent dynasty of Zhou. At least, there was some independent Aryan tribes which didn't integrated with local Chinese or absorbed by local Chinese still existed in Western and central China at the time of late Zhou dynasty.
It was recorded that the king of Qin attack the ruler of Zhou with some barbarous tribes but failed. That event happened a few hundred years BC, at that very time, the Bactoria in Central Asia was conquered by 4 Nomadic Aryan tribes, the origins of 3 of these tribes were definite. Now, some historians reckon the 4th tribe might be the failed Aryan tribe that moved back to Central Asia.
Until Han dynasty, the "Yue zhi" (pronounced as 'rou zhi, an Aryan Tribe) still live in Ganshu province, and sometimes also find the track of their activity in Northern China. And the region east to Tianshan Mountain (in the center of Eastern Turkeystan) was distributed by Saka (A branch of Aryan, whose language belongs to the Iranian Group, known as Scythian by Westerners and 'Sai Zhong' by Chinese).
Now, many scholars believe that many "Yi" and "Di" (the diverse barbarian tribes) recorded in early Chinese dynasties are Caucasian. I'm afraid the origin Xiongnu can be traced back to Scythian. Because the record revealed that their custom were exactly the same.
Thus, the Chinese people nowadays contain abundant of Caucasian blood. But currently, they all belong to the same nation, that's because the ancient Chinese culture was so great that it could absorb any other races, it was a furnace to integrate all races.
And the Caucasian, Mongolian created the grand Chinese civilization together.
^^^^^ Obviously the part about the Japanese and Indian aspect is slightly off, but everything else is pretty much dead on right. This actual Chinese person from China basically confirms everything I have been saying about Ancient White intrusions and take over of the China area.
It's clear to anyone with a working head and brain without an obvious agenda and dogmatic views; that the Shang, Zhou, Qin and Tang were all white Indo-European/Eurasian barbarian white dynasties that were foreign to Ancient China, and which all had eurasian steppe origins....
Posts: 1558 | From: US | Registered: Sep 2015
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posted
Stop with this black Chinese fantasy. The modern people of China are the legitimate and only heirs of all of China's dynasties. There were no black Chinese.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: Stop with this black Chinese fantasy. The modern people of China are the legitimate and only heirs of all of China's dynasties. There were no black Chinese.
Damn you people are stupid!
Are you arguing that Chinese did NOT originate in Africa?
Well here is a study done by Chinese that says they DID originate in Africa.
Please read this study, try to understand it, and then you MIGHT be able to GROW a BRAIN!
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I'm assuming sudaniya is African, and I always wonder why Black Africans seem to have problems with comprehending issues like this.
I say Black Africans, because our old board mate Rasol, who was Albino S.A. seemed to have no problem with the concepts.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: Stop with this black Chinese fantasy. The modern people of China are the legitimate and only heirs of all of China's dynasties. There were no black Chinese.
. sudaniya - If you wish to not be insulted in the future: then please do us all the courtesy of actually knowing something about a subject BEFORE shouting out your opinion on that subject.
On the issue of Chinese origins, I would suggest you read these pages.
quote:Originally posted by Mindovermatter: ^^^^I like how a certain scholar, repeatedly ignores the fact that I posted a mainstream source and even linguistic and mythological evidence, as well as topographical evidence and then outright ignores it and then claims I am making stuff up. I didn't know esteemed scholars and learned persons could stoop so low, ignore contrary evidence and then lie and make stuff up right in front of my face.
And his stance also contradicts the premise of the Aryan invasion into India, for if this person supports an Aryan intrusion in Ancient India, why wouldn't there be one of Ancient China, especially given the fact that China is RIGHT NEXT DOOR to India geographically, and RIGHT NEXT TO CENTRAL ASIA, the homeland of the Indo-European peoples in the Ancient time period? The positions and stances of so called scholarly people on this forum are all contradictory and don't make sense sometimes and are not logically consistent!
And the claim that Central Asia did not have Indo-European type peoples is a hilarious and obvious lie and it's mainstream scientific fact now that Central Asia had major Indo-european populations in ancient times; central Asia was filled and rife with Indo-European white peoples like the Scythians and Saka's and Rouron, and Wusun and Tocharians and Seres and every mainstream historical accounts by major civilizations of central Asia illustrate the presence of Indo-European whites in that region. infact Indo-European remains have been found in the Tian Shan mountains of China, I am sorry but this is mainstream scientific research and evidence that has confirmed this.
It's obvious that Huang Di represents an Indo-European nomadic steppe herder intrusion into Ancient China from the West. The West of Ancient China is central Asia and the Tian Shan mountains, which in ancient times was filled primarily by White Indo-European type peoples like the Saka's and Scythians etc etc etc, particularly during the time of the Xia.
I'm sorry to say, but all the recent archeological and linguistic and mythological and even historical and even geographical evidence shows that the Shang, Zhou, Qin and Tang were all barbarian dynasties that were setup by steppe Eurasian white barbarian peoples from Central Asia and Siberia and I have proved it multiple times already. Outright ignoring contrary evidence and then blatantly lying in a OCD manner just to hold on to out dated beliefs is not going to make reality go away.
And BTW Haung Di was called the Yellow emperor, not because of a sinitic origin or belonging to the "yellow race"; but because colors in Ancient Indo-European languages denoted cardinal direction, like in the slavic languages as an example. So yellow, in yellow emperor means "center", as in "center kingdom" or "emperor of the center kingdomn"; another obvious give away as to the Huang Di's figures Indo-European white Eurasian steppe herder origins. And yes, they did find Europid type skeletons in Zhou burials recently
I will finish off with this post by an actual Chinese person from China, about Indo-European white intrusive elements in Ancient Chinese history and civilization:
quote: (This was posted on another thread almost two years ago by a FReeper named "genealogy_prober" and is the only thing he ever posted. I agree with what he posted and suspect that he is Chinese)
I detected there was an essay concerning the ethnic consist of "Wu Hu" which invaded China during the Jin Dynasty. The author's view was that the Turk which raided China later was a Caucasian tribe (there Khan described as with green eyes and red cheek, more evidance available) , "Wu Hu" (Xiongnu, Jie, Qiang, Di, Xianbei) were not.
But according to the Chinese ancient historical annual, the Xiongnu are such Nordic tribe with red hair and blue eyes like "Wushun". And, Jie, which was a branch of Xiongnu, also described as with high Nose Bridge, and "deep" eyes.
After the collapse of their ruling to Han, the Jie people was distinguished easily because of their Caucasian feature and slaughtered (more than 200,000 victims). The historical work of the later dynasties also described the remained Xiongnu people as "Long nose" and "yellow hair".
Until Tang dynasty, the "Qi Hu" which is the offspring of the royal Xiongnu people, still called "Hu tou Han se" which mean's they adopt the Chinese tongue, but still "foreign" feature. Much other evidence can support the standpoint that Xiongnu are Caucasion, I don't want to illustrate any more. Some people believe the Xiongnu are Mongolian race, because the Roman historian said the Hun people who invaded were"brown skin, stocky body, slanting eyes" which are typical Mongolian trait.
But, actually, the Hun who invaded Europe 5th century was not the descendant of Xiongnu. The contemporary scholars affirm they are the identical tribe just because the pronunciation of "Hun" and "Xiongnu" are approximately the same. And there is some relationship between their languege.
I also want to point out that around the 5th and 6th century, there's another branch of "Hun" ruined the Persia and Northwest India, that Branch was called "White Hun" The Persian historian said that thier feature were different from "Hun", with white body.
Hence, it seemed that, they were also Caucasian. Now, let's come to Xianbei, many people noticed that, in the historical book, the Xianbei people were called "Bai Lu" means white invader (thief). And in the Great Work <>, I found the following story--The Emperor Of Eastern Jin, Jin Ming Di (Shima Shao), was with yellow beard and hair, because his mother was a Xianbei female.
Once he went to inspect his troop without notice, And the warriors all considered him as Xianbei people, then chased him as enemy. The folk songs at that time said, "Huang tou Xianbei jin Luoyang"--Xianbei is with "yellow head", it is quite possible that "yellow head" referred to their yellow hair and beard.
Xianbei is an alliance of tribes; there might also be some Mongolian tribes in it, but the Caucasian consist was more obvious, which all Hans paid attention to it. I'm inclined to be in approval of what Mr. Peng elaborated yesterday.
The contemporary Chinese people don't dwell on the ethnic origin of the nation, most of them believe they are simply Mongolian race. That's not a correct concept. The racial intermix in china began before any dynasty, but the Neolithic time.
The skulls unearthed in the relics of Banpo Xi'an reveal the trait of Caucasian, exactly, the Nordish Caucasian. The Banpo civilian used to be the hybrid of Nordish and Mongolian (like the Finn today).
We all know, the Banpo is the representative civilization of the Northern China Neolithic civilizations, we can infer, many other Chinese civilizations in that time were created by Caucasian or mingled people.
The Hemudu in Zhejiang is the representative Neolithic civilization in Southern China. But after measuring the skulls detected there, it was extremely amazed that, they're of Negro characteristics!
One renowned Chinese anthropologist stated in his work that "According to the numerous skeletons of Indo-Europe people unearthed in China and the feature of the Southern Chinese people today, the Chinese nation can't be classified into the Mongolian race simply.
At an earlier time, many Chinese anthropologists also clarify that it's completely wrong to say the ancient skeletons discovered in China belong to the same race. The Mongolian couldn't be regarded as the only "Local Chinese".
The Caucasian also had been inhabited in Eastern Asia since very early time. In Japan, the aboriginal Ainu people was finally confessed as the ancestor of current Japanese nation. The Ainu was the Caucasian tribe moved to the Japanese islands more than 20,000 years ago, while the Mongolian just reached Japan around 10,000 years ago. They intermixed and yielded the Japanese people now.
The same procedure of intermixing also took place in Korea.
Another famous event happened last year also support the idea--some researchers of biochemistry analyzed the DNA refined from the mummies in some ancient tombs in Shangdong province, and made a conclusion that these DNA correspond that of the European people. Another research discovered that the gene of Northern Chinese is more close to the Caucasian, rather than the Southern Chinese.
The origin of Zhou, The third Dynasty of ancient China, is also doubtful. The time of the establishment of that dynasty is not far from the time of Aryan Expansion. The chariot used by the soldiers of Zhou just resembles the chariot used by Aryan invaders to India!
More critical, the ancient Chinese work written by Mengzi said that, Zhou Wen Wang (the emperor of Zhou) is the people of "western barbarians" It's quite possible that a branch of Aryan intruded china at the moving of Aryan.
Someone even suspect the origin of the Qin Dynasty, which was the subsequent dynasty of Zhou. At least, there was some independent Aryan tribes which didn't integrated with local Chinese or absorbed by local Chinese still existed in Western and central China at the time of late Zhou dynasty.
It was recorded that the king of Qin attack the ruler of Zhou with some barbarous tribes but failed. That event happened a few hundred years BC, at that very time, the Bactoria in Central Asia was conquered by 4 Nomadic Aryan tribes, the origins of 3 of these tribes were definite. Now, some historians reckon the 4th tribe might be the failed Aryan tribe that moved back to Central Asia.
Until Han dynasty, the "Yue zhi" (pronounced as 'rou zhi, an Aryan Tribe) still live in Ganshu province, and sometimes also find the track of their activity in Northern China. And the region east to Tianshan Mountain (in the center of Eastern Turkeystan) was distributed by Saka (A branch of Aryan, whose language belongs to the Iranian Group, known as Scythian by Westerners and 'Sai Zhong' by Chinese).
Now, many scholars believe that many "Yi" and "Di" (the diverse barbarian tribes) recorded in early Chinese dynasties are Caucasian. I'm afraid the origin Xiongnu can be traced back to Scythian. Because the record revealed that their custom were exactly the same.
Thus, the Chinese people nowadays contain abundant of Caucasian blood. But currently, they all belong to the same nation, that's because the ancient Chinese culture was so great that it could absorb any other races, it was a furnace to integrate all races.
And the Caucasian, Mongolian created the grand Chinese civilization together.
^^^^^ Obviously the part about the Japanese and Indian aspect is slightly off, but everything else is pretty much dead on right. This actual Chinese person from China basically confirms everything I have been saying about Ancient White intrusions and take over of the China area.
It's clear to anyone with a working head and brain without an obvious agenda and dogmatic views; that the Shang, Zhou, Qin and Tang were all white Indo-European/Eurasian barbarian white dynasties that were foreign to Ancient China, and which all had eurasian steppe origins....
Just because you mentioned a mainstream source, for support of your invalid views about Chinese history, does not make your interpretation correct. I did not depend on one source I learned the history of China, by learning Chinese back in the day so I could translate some documents on my own, and reading hundreds of articles and books on Chinese history so I could find the real history of Blacks in China and not depend solely on European sources.
As you can see in this article I used more than one source to detail the history of ancient China.
If you knew Chinese you would know that the words Xi (Si) meant Black, and Di, like the Mande word Da, was just a title or honorific given to Black Chinese elites, that was later adopted by the mongoloid Chinese.
Your failure to research the topic illustrates how you did not notice the article you read was not based on authentic sources. Finally, there are thousands of mainstream articles that spread lies about the history of Black and African people.
My research is based on numerous Chinese historical and archaeological text, including primary documents instead of a nationalist publication in which a Chinese author is attempting to rewrite history and white out the original Black Chinese.
In your post you talk about the Saka, Tochori, Huns (Xiongnu) and etc., these white people appear late in the history of Central Asia. None of these white nomadic groups were in Central Asia before 200 BC. The Greeks were deposited in Pakistan around 494, by the original Persians (a Black Population), check out the real history site. None of these white tribes date back to Zhou (c.1000 BC), and definely not Xia and Shang times.
Mindovermatter I believe you are really white. You pretend to support Mike, and in the next breath promote the Indo-European myth.
There was no Indo-European ancient Empire. The relationship between European languages and Sanskrit, is the result of Greeks living in Pakistan when Panini wrote his grammar of Sanskrit; and both the Romans and Greeks used the Greek language as the Administratve language and lingua franca in their empires. See: https://www.academia.edu/1898458/Greek_influence_on_SanskritPosts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by sudaniya: Stop with this black Chinese fantasy. The modern people of China are the legitimate and only heirs of all of China's dynasties. There were no black Chinese.
You don't know what you're talking about.
Archaeological and cranial features research makes it clear that Negroids were very common to ancient China. Sanz (2014) and Weidenreich (1939) who have shown that the first anatomically modern humans in East Asia 24kya were Melanoid (i.e., Negroes), not mongoloids .
F. Weidenreich ( 1939) noted that the one of the earliest skulls of anatomically modern humans (amh) from north China found in the Upper Cave of Zhoukoudian, were Oceanic or Melanesoid (Negro) skeletons (Chang, 1977; Weidenreich, 1939). The Melanesoid skeletons are dated between 24-27kya (Sanz, 2014). The individual in the Lower Cave was a Homo Erectus hominid (Sinanthropus pekinensis ) .
The archaeological evidence indicates that the cranial features of the Negro or Sub-Saharan African phenotype was the dominant group in South China. Kwang-chih Chang, writing in the 4th edition of Archaeology of ancient China (1986) wrote that:" by the beginning of the Recent (Holocene) period the population in North China and that in the southwest and in Indochina had become sufficiently differentiated to be designated as Mongoloid and OCEANIC NEGROID races respectively…."(p.64). By the Upper Pleistocene the Negroid type was typified by the Liu-chiang skulls from Yunnan (Chang, 1986, p.69). As a result, the mongoloid populations in East Asia only arrive in the region during the recent Holocene , while amh SSA had been in East Asia for over 27,000.
Negroid skeletons dating to the early periods of Southern Chinese history have been found in Shangdong, Jiantung, Sichuan, Yunnan, Pearl River delta and Jiangxi especially at the initial sites of Chingliengang and Mazhiabang phases ( Chang, 1977, p.76) . The Chingliengang culture is often referred to as the Dawenkou culture of North China.
The presence of Negroid skeletal remains at Dawenkou sites make it clear that Negroes were still in the Northern East Asia in addition to South China. The Dawenkou culture predates the Lung-shan culture which is associated with the Xia civilization.
References:
Chang. K (1986). The archaeology of ancient China. New Haven, Yale University Press .
Chang. K (1977). The archaeology of ancient China. New Haven, Yale University Press .
Sanz, Nuria . (2014). Human origin sites and the World Heritage Convention in Asia. UNESCO.
Weidenreich. F.( 1939). On the earliest representative of modern mankind recovered on the soil of East Asia, Bull. Nat. Hist. Soc. Peiping 13:161-173.
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There were IMO black pygmoid SEAsians before grain agriculuturalist people from the north open-sky areas came, they were hunting & gathering horticulturalists that lived in dome huts.
"Negroid skeletons" - Dr. Winters, are these of tall skeleton people, such as Nilotic people? Possibly these were Pygmies mixed with Denisovans, such as Australoids, Papuans & Mamanwa Negritos?
- - - I'm not saying that the Yueh Zhi were "white", I don't know or care their precise skin tone, only that they came from the Euxine (Black Sea) region.
Yueh Zhi = Euxine = eau cyan = water blue = ocean = okeanos(Greek). It accords perfectly with Plato's Atlantis = Crimea, and Torah's Eden = Confluence of DaNube/DNieper/DNiester/DoNetz north of Crimea, with DN = downstream delta re. (JYor)DaN of later labeling.
- - -
I agree partially with Dr. Winters about Indo-European, the language family is not clearly independent of nearby "non-Indo European" such as Uralic (but this is true of ALL language families, since they all root in paleo-pygmy roots).
Phoenix=phonetics=PHuinduix=Finnish-Hunnic-Indus/Vedic=Veneti=Vinca= fin(ger)-fan-font = pamphlet-palimpsest-primp-pomp-pimple; all derive from from ebembe(Efe Pygmy) body & bark fingerpainting (earliest human script) with redwood powdered paste (older than oldest use of red ochre as pigment).Posts: 2021 | From: Miami | Registered: Aug 2014
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Zhoukoudian or Choukoutien is a cave system in Beijing, China. It has yielded many archaeological discoveries, including one of the first specimens of Homo erectus, dubbed Peking Man. Dates of when Peking Man inhabited this site vary greatly - with 530,000 years ago the youngest.
Upper Cave Situated on the upper part of Dragon Bone Hill this cave was discovered in 1930 and excavated from 1933–34 during which time the roof and north facing opening were removed. Excavations found evidence of human habitation in the cave dating back to 10,000 to 20,000 years ago. The cave was divided into an upper level living quarters and a lower level burial ground, while a small recess on the lower level acted as a natural animal trap. Finds unearthed included three human skulls and other remains from at least eight individuals identified as Archaic Homo sapiens. Also white powder sprinkled around the remains on the lower level indicates the inhabitants practiced burial rites.
German Jewish anthropologist Franz Weidenreich became honorary director of the Laboratory and excavations continued uncovering a further three skullcaps in 1936. Altogether excavations uncovered 200 human fossils from more than 40 individuals including 5 nearly complete skullcaps before they were brought to a halt in 1937 by the Japanese invasion of China.
In 1941 the bulk of the finds were lost, never to be recovered, while being transported to safety. Fortunately, Weidenreich had made copies of the fossils to preserve their physical characteristics. (Knowing Albinos as we do, accept with caution).
Frontiers of Anthropology: Weidenreich (1939) believed that the Upper Cave skeletons provided the earliest evidence for the presence of modern humans in the East Asian region. What perplexed Weidenreich, however, was the variation between the three crania, 101, 102 and 103, and the absence of clearly defined East Asian skeletal morphology. When discussing the racial affinity of these crania 101 was considered to be a primitive Mongoloid, 102 a Melanesian and 103 an Eskimo. These conclusions have been discussed in some detail by a number of authors, particularly in relation to the evolutionary history of East Asia (Coon 1962; Kaminga and Wright1988; Wolpoff et al. 1984; Wu 1960, 1961). Unfortunately, the original specimens, along with the Locality 1 Homo erectus materials, were lost in 1941 (Shapiro 1976) and can now only be studied through casts.
Of the three crania Upper Cave 101, the "old man", has been studied in more detail primarily due to its better preservation and clearly adult status. In comparison to modern East Asians the cranial vault is extremely long and low, with a receding frontal squama and marked angulation in the occipital region. The forehead is broad and the supercilliary region well developed. The nasal bones are pinched, with a high bridge, and the nose must have been more prominent than is common amongst living East Asians.
The orbits are relatively low and rectangular, which is a common feature in terminal Pleistocene and Neolithic crania from many parts of the world. The lower border of the nasal aperture is gutted, which is customary amongst East Asians, Australian Aborigines and sub-Saharan Africans. There is moderate sub-nasal prognathism and the mandible has a prominent chin, slight gonial eversion, trace of a mandibular torus and a broad ramus. Weidenreich (1939) did not record dental dimensions and the moderately worn teeth have not been described in detail. All teeth are present and the arch is well spaced, without malocclusion. Comparison of tooth wear rates with known age hunter gatherers suggest that Upper Cave 101 was probably in his late 30's when he died and not an "old man" by today's standards
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quote:Originally posted by DD'eDeN: There were IMO black pygmoid SEAsians before grain agriculuturalist people from the north open-sky areas came, they were hunting & gathering horticulturalists that lived in dome huts.
"Negroid skeletons" - Dr. Winters, are these of tall skeleton people, such as Nilotic people? Possibly these were Pygmies mixed with Denisovans, such as Australoids, Papuans & Mamanwa Negritos?
- - - I'm not saying that the Yueh Zhi were "white", I don't know or care their precise skin tone, only that they came from the Euxine (Black Sea) region.
Yueh Zhi = Euxine = eau cyan = water blue = ocean = okeanos(Greek). It accords perfectly with Plato's Atlantis = Crimea, and Torah's Eden = Confluence of DaNube/DNieper/DNiester/DoNetz north of Crimea, with DN = downstream delta re. (JYor)DaN of later labeling.
- - -
I agree partially with Dr. Winters about Indo-European, the language family is not clearly independent of nearby "non-Indo European" such as Uralic (but this is true of ALL language families, since they all root in paleo-pygmy roots).
Phoenix=phonetics=PHuinduix=Finnish-Hunnic-Indus/Vedic=Veneti=Vinca= fin(ger)-fan-font = pamphlet-palimpsest-primp-pomp-pimple; all derive from from ebembe(Efe Pygmy) body & bark fingerpainting (earliest human script) with redwood powdered paste (older than oldest use of red ochre as pigment).
I don't know about the size of the people. Often archeaologist only have the skulls of the dead person to examine.
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Clyde - what do you make of this statement?
Neves and Pucciarelli (1998) argue that not only are "Mongoloid" morphological features not present in Upper Cave 101, they are not present in South Ameican paleoindian crania either. They conclude that East Asian morphological features evolved in the Old World after the initial migration to the Americas. I think that this is supported by what is currently known from the Paleolthic and Neolithic skeletal assemblages from China (Brown 1999). People with a distinctive East Asian appearance do not appear until the Neolithic period at sites like Baoji at around 7000 years BP.
Neves, W. and Pucciarelli, H. 1998. The Zhoukoudian Upper Cave skull 101 as seen from the Americas. Journal of Human Evolution 34: 219-222.
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Clyde - what do you make of this statement?
Neves and Pucciarelli (1998) argue that not only are "Mongoloid" morphological features not present in Upper Cave 101, they are not present in South Ameican paleoindian crania either. They conclude that East Asian morphological features evolved in the Old World after the initial migration to the Americas. I think that this is supported by what is currently known from the Paleolthic and Neolithic skeletal assemblages from China (Brown 1999). People with a distinctive East Asian appearance do not appear until the Neolithic period at sites like Baoji at around 7000 years BP.
Neves, W. and Pucciarelli, H. 1998. The Zhoukoudian Upper Cave skull 101 as seen from the Americas. Journal of Human Evolution 34: 219-222.
Neves is trying to convince us that the first Americans came from Asia. The only problem with this is that, the the Chinese skeleton dates to 24,000 BC, and Asians could not enter America until after 12,000 BC . That's why we know the first Americans came from Africa.
Plus since the Zhoukoudian amh was Black, it agrees with the rest of the PaleoAmericans who were also Black.
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^lioness - here the issue is morphology NOT skin color! Try to keep up.
"black" has been mentioned 37 times so far in this thread. Are you saying "black" is not just color?
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Dr. Winters: "Negroid skeletons" vs. "I don't know about the size of the people. Often archeaologist only have the skulls of the dead person to examine."
- - - How can 'Negroid skeletons' skin color be determined when body size is unknown?
quote:Originally posted by DD'eDeN: Dr. Winters: "Negroid skeletons" vs. "I don't know about the size of the people. Often archeaologist only have the skulls of the dead person to examine."
- - - How can 'Negroid skeletons' skin color be determined when body size is unknown?
You determine race based on craniometric measurements.
Your skin color is an observable feature associated with the particular craniometric measurement associated with continental varied population: Negroids: Africa , Oceania and Australia; Mongoloids and Caucasians.
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Sounds unreliable at the individual level, which is what is normally found at sites. I'm wary of classifying an ancient individual into a modern grouping. T rex was not an iguana or hummingbird, but if classified per today's groups, it would be forced into such a way. - - - PLOS article: The pigment palette of Spanish Levantine rock art consists of just three colours: red, black and white, with a clear prevalence of the first throughout the entire relative chronological sequence as well as in most of the Levantine regions. To date little is known regarding the composition, preparation and use of these prehistoric pigments, and subsequently even less is known regarding chronological and geographical variations in these hypothetical chaînes opératoires.
Regarding colour selection, we have yet to identify the motivations behind colour choice, whether they correspond to specific social rules or rather are a function of limited access to mineral or organic raw materials.
quote:Originally posted by DD'eDeN: Sounds unreliable at the individual level, which is what is normally found at sites. I'm wary of classifying an ancient individual into a modern grouping. T rex was not an iguana or hummingbird, but if classified per today's groups, it would be forced into such a way. - - - PLOS article: The pigment palette of Spanish Levantine rock art consists of just three colours: red, black and white, with a clear prevalence of the first throughout the entire relative chronological sequence as well as in most of the Levantine regions. To date little is known regarding the composition, preparation and use of these prehistoric pigments, and subsequently even less is known regarding chronological and geographical variations in these hypothetical chaînes opératoires.
Regarding colour selection, we have yet to identify the motivations behind colour choice, whether they correspond to specific social rules or rather are a function of limited access to mineral or organic raw materials.
It appears unreliable to you because you only see the surface features of the flesh and not the particular features associated with the skull. Diverse features of the human skull positively identify racial groups.
This is why Caucasians and Africans can have similar or identical facial features, but, examination of the skull will show their actual racial origins.
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Yes of modern AMHs open sky people, but decreasingly so the farther back in time. Microclimate eg. Sunny vs canopied habitat selected for different cranial characteristics, skulls with extreme traits are easy to separate, those in less dramatically different areas aren't.
quote:Originally posted by DD'eDeN: Yes of modern AMHs open sky people, but decreasingly so the farther back in time. Microclimate eg. Sunny vs canopied habitat selected for different cranial characteristics, skulls with extreme traits are easy to separate, those in less dramatically different areas aren't.
LOL. Stop making up stuff. You know that each hominid group is defined by craniometric measurements.
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I have presented the genomic evidence of the relationship between African and mongoloid Native Americans.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
The Mongoloid people exterminated the Black Chinese in most cases, and pushed them into Southeast Asia and Central Asia.
Clyde when did this occur and where did these Mongoloids come from?
The modern Chinese are descendants of the Hua tribes that founded Zhou.
The second Shang Dynasty ( situated at Anyang) was founded by the Yin. As a result this dynasty is called Shang-Yin. The Yin or Oceanic Mongoloid type is associated with the Austronesian speakers ( Kwang-chih Chang, "Prehistoric and early historic culture horizons and traditions in South China", Current Anthropology, 5 (1964) pp.359-375 :375). The Classical Mongoloids, Austronesian/Indonesian and etc., or Oceanic Mongoloid type were called Yin, Feng, Yen, Zhiu Yi and Lun Yi.
The Classical mongoloids appear to may have originated in Anatolia. The Han and Mongolians (the taller) mongoloids originated in the Tian Shan mountains.
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The Classical mongoloids are represented by the smallest mongoloid populations like the Indonesians, Rohingya Boat People, Khmer, Thais, Filipinos and etc. Many of the Classical mongoioids are dark skin.
The Mongolians and Chinese are the tall mongoloids. They can be either pale or dark skinned.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by DD'eDeN: Dr. Winters, please specify what I made up.
You made up this staement:
quote:
Yes of modern AMHs open sky people, but decreasingly so the farther back in time. Microclimate eg. Sunny vs canopied habitat selected for different cranial characteristics, skulls with extreme traits are easy to separate, those in less dramatically different areas aren't.
This is false. Habitat has nothing to do with cranial characteristics. We can reconstruct ancient and modern populations based on the diverse cranial features of the varied populations.
.
Morever, the field of Forensic anthropology would not exist if scientists could not differentiate between the various races.
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This thread is very important to Africa, as we now depend on China for our infrastructural projects
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^What, you're going to cancel a project because the Chinese didn't tell you that they derive from Blacks?
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^What, you're going to cancel a project because the Chinese didn't tell you that they derive from Blacks?
Noooooo! Knowing that they derive from Black People and they have a culture that is neither European nor Arab, would help spur our self-confidence in our own development.
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