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Based on the BUTCHERED remains of a Mastodon, advanced radiometric dating technology allowed scientists to determine the mastodon bones belong to the Late Pleistocene period, or 130,000 years old, with a margin of error of plus or minus 9,400 years. .
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Based on the BUTCHERED remains of a Mastodon, advanced radiometric dating technology allowed scientists to determine the mastodon bones belong to the Late Pleistocene period, or 130,000 years old, with a margin of error of plus or minus 9,400 years.
Butchered is perhaps an exaggeration.
The bones were actually cracked open to extract the marrow.
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Intelligent human existence in Mexico dated to 260,000 years ago.
In the 1960s, sophisticated stone tools rivaling the best Cro-Magnon works in Europe were discovered by Professor Juan Camacho Armenta and Cynthia Irwin-Williams in Hueyatlaco, near Valsequillo.
"Hueyátlaco is a dangerous site. To simply speak publicly of the geological evidence of such age is enough to jeopardize one's professional career. Three of our geologists can attest to this. Its very existence is blasphemous because it challenges a fundamental dogma of Darwinism, the dominant philosophy (or religion, if you will) of the Western scientific world for the last 150 years."
"Mid-1969 , Szabo, Malde and Irwin-Williams edited their first document about the dating of the excavation site. Stone tools were discovered in situ in a stratum that also contains animal remains. The radioactive carbon dating of animal remains has produced an age of more than 35,000 years before now . Uranium dating produced an age of 260,000 years before now with ± 60,000 years ."
One of the main critiques is that the study doesn’t definitively rule out natural causes for the presence of the purported stone tools, the breakage patterns in the mastodon bones, or the patterns of breakage and wear on their surfaces.
For one, the paper doesn’t satisfyingly rule out the possibility that natural processes carried the large rocks to the scene, says Vanderbilt University archaeologist Tom Dillehay. Nor does it fully rule out the possibility that the wear patterns on the stones were a result of rocks bumping against one another in a stream, he says.
“When you put the total package together, there’s certainly more evidence to reject [the study] than accept it,” Dillehay says.
Archaeologists also take issue with the stone tools that aren’t there. Usually, hammer-and-anvil sites also come with lithics, flaked stone tools and the debris from their manufacture and use, notes Jim Adovasio, the Florida Atlantic University archaeologist who excavated Meadowcroft Rockshelter, one of North America’s oldest archaeological sites.
These types of tools are missing entirely from the Cerutti site, even though it supposedly dates to a time when hominins were perfectly capable of making sophisticated hand axes.
“They make a statement that the [evidence at Cerutti] is consistent with many other sites,” says Adovasio. “Well, I’m sorry, it’s not—that just isn’t simply true.”
Hemmings however, isn’t convinced that the evidence uniformly supports the idea that humans at Cerutti were trying to use the mastodon bones as tools. In particular, one of the mastodon’s teeth is shattered for no obvious reason.
“Everything that’s broken was still there, so it wasn’t mined for tools, and you’re certainly not getting marrow out of the bone of a mastodon tooth,” he says. “So what exactly is supposed to have gone on?”
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: no proofs have been offered.
posted
That is not a credible source jantavanta, and no proofs have been offered. People say anything, the difference makers are proof and logic.
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NEW YORK (AP) — A startling new report asserts that the first known Americans arrived much, much earlier than scientists thought — more than 100,000 years ago __ and maybe they were Neanderthals.
posted
The Indians California 130,000 years ago supports the discovery of Africans in Brazil 100,000 years ago. The presence of Indians in California suggest that Africans established many colonies in the Americas before 130,000 since when find elements of homo sapien sapien habitation in Brazil and California.
The First Americans were Africans or Negroid People. The OoA people were not only Negroid, they were Africans direct from Africa. Mongoloids were not in the Americas until 6kya.
Dr.Nieda Guidon claims that Africans were in Brazil 100,000 years ago. The evidence that fire existed in Brazil 65kya is an indication that man was at the site 65,000 years ago, since researchers found charcoal, which is the result of fire making. The New York Times, reported that humans were Brazil 100,000 years ago .
If you would see the New York Times video you would noted that Dr.Nieda Guidon supports her dating of human population in Brazil 100,000 years ago to ancient fire and tool making. Look at the New York Times video: Human’s First Appearance in the Americas @:
If you view the video you will see that human occupation of Brazil 100,000 years ago is supported by man made fire, e.g., the charcoal, and tools.
Dr. Guidon who conducted excavation at the site notes at 2:09 the site is 100,000 years old. At 3:17 in the video scientists proved that the tools are the result of human craftsmanship . You reject this evidence because it proves that Blacks were here before the mongoloids.
It is interesting that it is becoming clear that people may have left Africa 100kya, instead of 60kya to settle the world. This may indicate that Australians made their way to America before the Khoisan.
The new evidence of anatomically modern humans (AMH) in Arabia, on Crete and now Brazil around 100,000 years ago suggest that AMH left Africa before 60kya.
We all know that humans originated in Africa over 150,000 years ago. The new evidence suggest five out of Africa (OoA) There were probably four major migration of the Africans into the Pacific. The first migration events. The first people to migrate out of Africa 100-60kya were the Australians. These people demonstrate the physical type associated with the early homo sapien sapiens.
The first researcher to claim that the PaleoAmericans were Blacks was Dr. W. A. Neves of Brazil. Neves had the PaleoAmerican from Brazil reconstructed. This Black woman is called Luzia.
Using craniometric quantitative analysis and multivariate methods, Dr. Neves determined that Paleo Americans were either Australian, African or Melenesians (Neves , Powell and Ozolins, 1998,1999a,199b; Powell, 2005). The research of Neves indicated that the ancient Americans represent two populations, paleoamericans who were phenotypically African, Australian or Melanesian and a mongoloid population that appears to have arrived in the Americas after 6000 BC. Kennewick is recognized as a PaleoAmerican therefore he has negro ancestry. The researchers claim the Kennewick man’s DNA is mainly related to Native Americans living in South America, rather than North America except for the Colville people on the West Coast. The researchers wrote
quote: “Despite this similarity, Anzick-1 and Kennewick Man have dissimilar genetic affinities to contemporary Native Americans. In particular, we find that Anzick-1 is more closely related to Central/Southern Native Americans than is Kennewick Man (Extended Data Fig. 5). The pattern observed in Kennewick Man is mirrored in the Colville, who also show a high affinity with Southern populations (Fig. 2c), but are most closely related to a neighbouring population in the data set (Stswecem’c; Extended Data Fig. 4c).”
The authors also noted that:
“However, the genetic affinities of Kennewick Man reveal additional complexity in the population history of the Northern lineage. The finding that Kennewick is more closely related to Southern than many Northern Native Americans (Extended Data Fig. 4) suggests the presence of an additional Northern lineage that diverged from the common ancestral population of Anzick-1 and Southern Native Americans (Fig. 3). This branch would include both Colville and other tribes of the Pacific Northwest such as the Stswecem’c, who also appear symmetric to Kennewick with Southern Native Americans (Extended Data Fig. 4).”
The Pacific coast were a mixture of mongoloid and Pacific Island negro Native Americans.
The Colville tribe which is related to Kennewick man is a Confederation of Indians who did not die of diseases or murdered by whites so they could take their land.
The Colville tribe is the name given to various Christian Native American tribes that lived at Fort Colville. They include Native American groups that were not exterminated by the whites. The twelve bands are the Methow, Okanogan, Arrow Lakes, Sanpoil, Colville, Nespelem, Chelan, Entiat, Moses-Columbia, Wenatchi, Nez Perce, and Palus. These remnants of Pacific coast tribes formerly mixed with the Black Native Americans this is obvious when we look at Ohlone people who lived in missions on the West Coast.
This means that the Colville tribe is admixed with the Black Native American tribes that formerly dominated the Pacific coast.
The authors like most Europeans attempt to lie about the negro origin of Kennewick man, the multivariate analysis of Kennewick man’s skull does not support their conclusion. The carniometric measurements also confirm the negro origin of Kenewick man. The researchers wrote:
quote: Although our individual-based craniometric analyses confirm that Kennewick Man tends to be more similar to Polynesian and Ainu peoples than to Native Americans, Kennewick Man’s pattern of craniometric affinity falls well within the range of affinity patterns evaluated for individual Native Americans (Supplementary Information 9). For example, the Arikara from North Dakota (the Native American tribe representing the geographically closest population in Howells’ data set to Kennewick), exhibit with high frequency closest affinities with Polynesians (Supplementary Information 9). Yet, the Arikara have typical Native-American mitochondrial DNA haplogroups30, as does Kennewick Man. We conclude that the currently available number of independent phenetic markers is too small, and within-population craniometric variation too large, to permit reliable reconstruction of the biological population affinities of Kennewick Man.
Arikara
Kennewick man carried mtDNA haplogroup X, this haplogroup is rare among United States Indians. This haplogroup is carried by Africans.
Amerindians carry the X hg. Amerindians and Europeans hg X are different (Person, 2004). Haplogroup X has also been found throughout Africa (Shimada et al,2006). Shimada et al (2006) believes that X(hX) is of African origin. Amerindian X is different from European hg X, skeletons from Brazil dating between 400-7000 BP have the transition np 16223 ( Martinez-Cruzado, 2001; Ribeiro-Dos-Santos,1996). Transition np 16223 is characteristic of African haplogroups. This suggest that Africans may have taken the X hg to the Americas in ancient times. This transference is supported by the haplogroups carried by Kennewick man.
Below are articles that say the PaleoAmericans were phenotypically Black. See:
Neves, W. A. and Pucciarelli, H. M. 1989. Extra-continental biological relationships of early South American human remains: a multivariate analysis. Cieˆncia e Cultura, 41: 566–75 Neves, W. A. and Pucciarelli, H. M. 1990. The origins of the first Americans: an analysis based onthe cranial morphology of early South American human remains. American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 81: 247. Neves, W. A. and Pucciarelli, H. M. 1991. Morphological affinities of the first Americans: an exploratory analysis based on early South American human remains. Journal of Human Evolution, 21: 261–73. Neves, W. A. and Meyer, D. 1993. The contribution of the morphology of early South and Northamerican skeletal remains to the understanding of the peopling of the Americas. American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 16 (Suppl): 150–1. Neves, W. A., Powell, J. F., Prous, A. and Ozolins, E. G. 1998. Lapa Vermelha IV Hominid 1: morphologial affinities or the earliest known American. American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 26(Suppl): 169. Neves, W. A., Powell, J. F. and Ozolins, E. G. 1999a. Extra-continental morphological affinities of Palli Aike, southern Chile. Intercieˆncia, 24: 258–63. Neves, W. A., Powell, J. F. and Ozolins, E. G. 1999b. Modern human origins as seen from the peripheries. Journal of Human Evolution, 37: 129–33. Neves W.A . and Pucciarelli H.M. 1991. "Morphological Affinities of the First Americans: an exploratory analysis based on early South American human remains". Journal of Human Evolution 21:261-273. Neves W.A ., Powell J.F. and Ozolins E.G. 1999. "Extra-continental morphological affinities of Lapa Vermelha IV Hominid 1: A multivariate analysis with progressive numbers of variables. Homo 50:263-268 Neves W.A ., Powell J.F. and Ozolins E.G. 1999. "Extra-continental morphological affinities of Palli-Aike, Southern Chile". Interciencia 24:258-263. http://www.interciencia.org/v24_04/neves.pdf Neves, W.A., Gonza´ lez-Jose´ , R., Hubbe, M., Kipnis, R., Araujo, A.G.M., Blasi, O., 2004. Early Holocene Human Skeletal Remains form Cerca Grande, Lagoa Santa, Central Brazil, and the origins of the first Americans. World Archaeology 36, 479-501 Neves, W. A., and M. Hubbe. 2005. Cranial morphology of early Americans from Lagoa Santa, Brazil: Implications for the settlement of the New World. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 102:18,309–18,314. NYT (New York Times). (2015) Human’s First Appearance in the Americas . http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/28/world/americas/discoveries-challenge-beliefs-on-humans-arrival-in-the-americas.html?hp&_r=4
Powell,J.F. (2005). First Americans:Races, Evolution and the Origin of Native Americans. Cambridge University Press.
Many of the articles of Neves can be found at Academia edu.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
The 130kya date for humans in California is very interesting because it correlates with the expansion of AMH from Africa by Sea to Crete. If they were sailing to Crete, Africans probably sailed to Brazil and eventually made their way to California.
HARDWARE Stone tools found on Crete are evidence of early sea voyages. Credit Nicholas Thompson and Chad DiGregorio Early humans, possibly even prehuman ancestors, appear to have been going to sea much longer than anyone had ever suspected.
That is the startling implication of discoveries made the last two summers on the Greek island of Crete. Stone tools found there, archaeologists say, are at least 130,000 years old, which is considered strong evidence for the earliest known seafaring in the Mediterranean and cause for rethinking the maritime capabilities of prehuman cultures.
Crete has been an island for more than five million years, meaning that the toolmakers must have arrived by boat. So this seems to push the history of Mediterranean voyaging back more than 100,000 years, specialists in Stone Age archaeology say. Previous artifact discoveries had shown people reaching Cyprus, a few other Greek islands and possibly Sardinia no earlier than 10,000 to 12,000 years ago.
The oldest established early marine travel anywhere was the sea-crossing migration of anatomically modern Homo sapiens to Australia, beginning about 60,000 years ago. There is also a suggestive trickle of evidence, notably the skeletons and artifacts on the Indonesian island of Flores, of more ancient hominids making their way by water to new habitats.
Even more intriguing, the archaeologists who found the tools on Crete noted that the style of the hand axes suggested that they could be up to 700,000 years old. That may be a stretch, they conceded, but the tools resemble artifacts from the stone technology known as Acheulean, which originated with prehuman populations in Africa.
More than 2,000 stone artifacts, including the hand axes, were collected on the southwestern shore of Crete, near the town of Plakias, by a team led by Thomas F. Strasser and Eleni Panagopoulou. She is with the Greek Ministry of Culture and he is an associate professor of art history at Providence College in Rhode Island. They were assisted by Greek and American geologists and archaeologists, including Curtis Runnels of Boston University.
Dr. Strasser described the discovery last month at a meeting of the Archaeological Institute of America. A formal report has been accepted for publication in Hesparia, the journal of the American School of Classical Studies at Athens, a supporter of the fieldwork.
The Plakias survey team went in looking for material remains of more recent artisans, nothing older than 11,000 years. Such artifacts would have been blades, spear points and arrowheads typical of Mesolithic and Neolithic periods.
“We found those, then we found the hand axes,” Dr. Strasser said last week in an interview, and that sent the team into deeper time.
“We were flummoxed,” Dr. Runnels said in an interview. “These things were just not supposed to be there.”
Word of the find is circulating among the ranks of Stone Age scholars. The few who have seen the data and some pictures — most of the tools reside in Athens — said they were excited and cautiously impressed. The research, if confirmed by further study, scrambles timetables of technological development and textbook accounts of human and prehuman mobility.
Ofer Bar-Yosef, an authority on Stone Age archaeology at Harvard, said the significance of the find would depend on the dating of the site. “Once the investigators provide the dates,” he said in an e-mail message, “we will have a better understanding of the importance of the discovery.”
Dr. Bar-Yosef said he had seen only a few photographs of the Cretan tools. The forms can only indicate a possible age, he said, but “handling the artifacts may provide a different impression.” And dating, he said, would tell the tale.
Dr. Runnels, who has 30 years’ experience in Stone Age research, said that an analysis by him and three geologists “left not much doubt of the age of the site, and the tools must be even older.”
The cliffs and caves above the shore, the researchers said, have been uplifted by tectonic forces where the African plate goes under and pushes up the European plate. The exposed uplifted layers represent the sequence of geologic periods that have been well studied and dated, in some cases correlated to established dates of glacial and interglacial periods of the most recent ice age. In addition, the team analyzed the layer bearing the tools and determined that the soil had been on the surface 130,000 to 190,000 years ago.
Dr. Runnels said he considered this a minimum age for the tools themselves. They include not only quartz hand axes, but also cleavers and scrapers, all of which are in the Acheulean style. The tools could have been made millenniums before they became, as it were, frozen in time in the Cretan cliffs, the archaeologists said.
Dr. Runnels suggested that the tools could be at least twice as old as the geologic layers. Dr. Strasser said they could be as much as 700,000 years old. Further explorations are planned this summer.
The 130,000-year date would put the discovery in a time when Homo sapiens had already evolved in Africa, sometime after 200,000 years ago. Their presence in Europe did not become apparent until about 50,000 years ago.
Archaeologists can only speculate about who the toolmakers were. One hundred and thirty thousand years ago, modern humans shared the world with other hominids, like Neanderthals and Homo heidelbergensis. The Acheulean culture is thought to have started with Homo erectus. The standard hypothesis had been that Acheulean toolmakers reached Europe and Asia via the Middle East, passing mainly through what is now Turkey into the Balkans. The new finds suggest that their dispersals were not confined to land routes. They may lend credibility to proposals of migrations from Africa across the Strait of Gibraltar to Spain. Crete’s southern shore where the tools were found is 200 miles from North Africa.
“We can’t say the toolmakers came 200 miles from Libya,” Dr. Strasser said. “If you’re on a raft, that’s a long voyage, but they might have come from the European mainland by way of shorter crossings through Greek islands.” But archaeologists and experts on early nautical history said the discovery appeared to show that these surprisingly ancient mariners had craft sturdier and more reliable than rafts. They also must have had the cognitive ability to conceive and carry out repeated water crossing over great distances in order to establish sustainable populations producing an abundance of stone artifacts.
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-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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It is time we take a serious look at the nautical history of African people. The idea that the first civilizations in Africa were solely hunter-gather without boat technology is groundless. We have to move away from European ideas about the origins of sailing and boat technology.
The varied style of crafts depicted in the Sahara indicate that Africans made seacraft that was capable of traveling in rough waters and in the Ocean. They would have needed these sailing craft to trade and communicate with people living along these gigantic lakes.
Africans probably developed their nautical skill sailing the former Megalakes that existed in Africa for 100’s of years. Look at this map of the Mega lakes that formerly existed in Africa. .
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The lakes in Africa were thousands of miles long. Mega Chad was a freshwater lake in Africa covering 139,000 sq miles (360,000 sq km) . Lake Chad formerly emptied in the Atlantic Ocean. The map of MegaLake Chad and MegaLake Congo make it clear that Africans could sail all the way from South Africa up to North Africa. From here they could have sailed up to the Mediterranean Sea.
The nautical skills developed by Africans prior to 130kya would explain their ability to navigate and sail the Atlantic Ocean and Mediterranean Sea.
The weather on these inland seas given the size of the lakes would have made conditions similar to what sailors would have experienced sailing in the Ocean. Moreover sailing these Lakes would have given them valuable experience, that would have allowed them to sail the open seas.
Moreover we find that by 100kya African tool kits appear in Brazil; and 130k year old African tools on the island of Crete. This archaeological evidence indicates that Africans were sailing great distances at a time we believe that AMH were simply gathering seeds and berries to eat—instead of fishing for supplemental source of food.
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The discovery of butchered Mastodons in California provides additional support for an early migration of Africans out of Africa to the rest of the world. Travel from Africa to the Americas would have been easy. Whereas a voyage to the Americas was only 1700 miles, this was nothing compared to sailing MegaLake Chad which was over 130k plus sq. miles.
The presence of humans in California and Crete around 130kya indicates that Africans were exiting Africa at this time to the Americas and Europe. It suggest that the first OOA events were focused on the West, instead of the eastern parts of the world.
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Look at the hair here, straight and blowing in the wind.
So if this represents Native Americans of 130,000 years ago and a given African America has Afro hair, that Afro hair is proof that they are primarily recent Africans, not to mention the major DNA difference of AAs when compared to ancient human remains such as Naia, Luiza or Oase
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Look at the hair here, straight and blowing in the wind.
So if this represents Native Americans of 130,000 years ago and a given African America has Afro hair, that Afro hair is proof that they are primarily recent Africans, not to mention the DNA difference of AAs when compared to ancient human remains such as Naia, Luiza or Oase
. Here - educate yourself on what hair-types mean.
quote:Originally posted by DD'eDeN: Bison arrived in America (from Siberia) 130,000 years ago.
I suspected that you were Albino, now you have proven it.
Please explain what pleasure you Albinos get from knowing some poor ignorant person will believe your lie, and pass it on to other similarly ignorant people?
Thankfully I, and other Blacks, get our enjoyment from educating the ignorant.
Wonder if that's another Melanin based difference?
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posted
Slow down. Could just be a hominid like homo erectus and not a homo sapien at all. Besides we have genetics on native american people. At best you get 30K years but not 120K.
No skeletons and no DNA means fake news. We would need a lot of evidence to back a far fetched theory like this!
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: Slow down. Could just be a hominid like homo erectus and not a homo sapien at all. Besides we have genetics on native american people. At best you get 30K years but not 120K.
No skeletons and no DNA means fake news. We would need a lot of evidence to back a far fetched theory like this!
The fossilized skulls of two adults and one child discovered in the Afar region of eastern Ethiopia have been dated at 160,000 years, making them the oldest known fossils of modern humans, or Homo sapiens. (this is a lie; Omo 1 & 2 are older).
The skulls, dug up near a village called Herto, fill a major gap in the human fossil record, an era at the dawn of modern humans when the facial features and brain cases we recognize today as human first appeared.
The fossils date precisely from the time when biologists using genes to chart human evolution predicted that a genetic "Eve" lived somewhere in Africa and gave rise to all modern humans.
"We've lacked intermediate fossils between pre-humans and modern humans, between 100,000 and 300,000 years ago, and that's where the Herto fossils fit," said paleoanthropologist Tim White, professor of integrative biology at the University of California, Berkeley, and a co-leader of the team that excavated and analyzed the discovery site.
Bullsh1t - Modern man is older than 400,000. Just making the case of how many versions there are.
The point - around the entire world, only 8 remains of modern humans over 100,000 years old have been found. Circumstantial materials are therefore essential in building working theories of human movements and development.
Thought you knew that.
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: Slow down. Could just be a hominid like homo erectus and not a homo sapien at all. Besides we have genetics on native american people. At best you get 30K years but not 120K.
No skeletons and no DNA means fake news. We would need a lot of evidence to back a far fetched theory like this!
The fossilized skulls of two adults and one child discovered in the Afar region of eastern Ethiopia have been dated at 160,000 years, making them the oldest known fossils of modern humans, or Homo sapiens. (this is a lie; Omo 1 & 2 are older).
The skulls, dug up near a village called Herto, fill a major gap in the human fossil record, an era at the dawn of modern humans when the facial features and brain cases we recognize today as human first appeared.
The fossils date precisely from the time when biologists using genes to chart human evolution predicted that a genetic "Eve" lived somewhere in Africa and gave rise to all modern humans.
"We've lacked intermediate fossils between pre-humans and modern humans, between 100,000 and 300,000 years ago, and that's where the Herto fossils fit," said paleoanthropologist Tim White, professor of integrative biology at the University of California, Berkeley, and a co-leader of the team that excavated and analyzed the discovery site.
Bullsh1t - Modern man is older than 400,000. Just making the case of how many versions there are.
The point - around the entire world, only 8 remains of modern humans over 100,000 years old have been found. Circumstantial materials are therefore essential in building working theories of human movements and development.
Thought you knew that.
You are kidding right? There is evidence for homo erectus as late as 35K BPE (Ngandong on the Solo River).
There are a lot of extinct branches of hominids that did not evolve into us that could have survived in isolation in the new world.
I would want to see a lot more evidence than this questionable conjectures raised by a few bone marks.
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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Look at the hair here, straight and blowing in the wind.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
Why do most White and Mongol people have Straight Hair, while most Black people have Curly or Kinky Hair?
The answer is Albinism.
As we can see from the picture the original Indians were variants of "White and Mongol " people as Mike had indicated in his hair analysis. Also look at the bow above, that is clearly made from plasticized Mastodon bone. And look how the man on the left keeps the arrows stored up a possum's ass, that has to be a very old practice, more 'evidence'
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posted
This is like the thread: White people were created by a comet klind of stuff.
Entertaining but really lacks any science. This kind of stuff is put out there in the media to generate ratings not proof of anything.
Don't even have a single skull. Gez.
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: You are kidding right? There is evidence for homo erectus as late as 35K BPE (Ngandong on the Solo River).
. Now you are getting pathetic - Please try to keep up! (Just saw your last post - actually you're a pathetic ass. Serious people understand that bones from that period will be rare).
The Age of the 20 Meter Solo River Terrace, Java, Indonesia and the Survival of Homo erectus in Asia
Abstract
Homo erectus was the first human lineage to disperse widely throughout the Old World, the only hominin in Asia through much of the Pleistocene, and was likely ancestral to H. sapiens. The demise of this taxon remains obscure because of uncertainties regarding the geological age of its youngest populations. In 1996, some of us co-published electron spin resonance (ESR) and uranium series (U-series) results indicating an age as young as 35–50 ka for the late H. erectus sites of Ngandong and Sambungmacan and the faunal site of Jigar (Indonesia). If correct, these ages favor an African origin for recent humans who would overlap with H. erectus in time and space. Here, we report 40Ar/39Ar incremental heating analyses and new ESR/U-series age estimates from the “20 m terrace" at Ngandong and Jigar. Both data sets are internally consistent and provide no evidence for reworking, yet they are inconsistent with one another. The 40Ar/39Ar analyses give an average age of 546±12 ka (sd±5 se) for both sites, the first reliable radiometric indications of a middle Pleistocene component for the terrace. Given the technical accuracy and consistency of the analyses, the argon ages represent either the actual age or the maximum age for the terrace and are significantly older than previous estimates. Most of the ESR/U-series results are older as well, but the oldest that meets all modeling criteria is 143 ka+20/−17. Most samples indicated leaching of uranium and likely represent either the actual or the minimum age of the terrace. Given known sources of error, the U-series results could be consistent with a middle Pleistocene age. However, the ESR and 40Ar/39Ar ages preclude one another. Regardless, the age of the sites and hominins is at least bracketed between these estimates and is older than currently accepted.
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