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Author Topic: Did the Carthaginians have coins?
the questioner
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i remember reading a source that said the Carthaginians used leather money instead of coins.

so far i have not found a single ancient source that says that they used or struck coins.

the coins that are found in Carthage happen to be Sicilian brought there from Syracuse when Agathocles led an expedition into Tunisia.

the coins do not show tanit but they show the Greek goddesses demeter and kore

when agathocles left Sicily for Africa he brought a ton of money with him from the temples of Sicily. when he arrived he sacrificed to these two goddesses.

the coins of Spain that display Hercules and a elephant are actually from the Greek city of sagantum. when hannibal sacked the city of sagantum he brought tons of money from the city back to "Carthage nova"

can anyone refute these facts?

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Mike111
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According to The Coinage of Carthage By Mike Markowitz for CoinWeek.

In Bruttium (the toe of the Italian boot) Hannibal struck small electrum coins in the odd denomination of 3/8 shekel (about 3 grams). The design was based on the popular Roman silver quadrigatus, with Jupiter on the reverse, driving a chariot and about to hurl a thunderbolt, but with a double-faced image of Tanit replacing the Roman god Janus on the obverse.

At Capua, Hannibal struck more conventional Punic half and quarter shekels in silver.

.
However, after looking those coins up, I found only coins with Albino faces - meaning that it's part of the Albino alt history.

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Mike111
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^For those who like to laugh at the Albinos lie histories, try this.

We know that Carthage was founded by Black Phoenicians from the City/state of Tyre in what is now Lebanon.

We know the Phoenicians were Black, because Assyrians and Persians depicted them as such.


 -


 -
.
.

Yet this is what the degenerate lying Albinos of today say is a Tyre coin!

.

 -

.

^Is there anything sorrier that a degenerate Albino?

No pride, no sense of self, just a life of claiming Black people and Black deeds for Albinos.

Then Doxie wants to blame us for them not being worth a fuch.

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the lioness,
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 -
Statue of Baal Hammon; the chief god of Carthage. The National Bardo Museum (Tunis)


 -
Phoenician - 5th century b.C. Figure of a bearded man


 -
Phoenician art. Cyprus. 4th century BC.
Classical Period. Grave marker
depicting two men reclining at a banquet (top)
and a couple (bottom). Limestone. Golgoi (Cyprus).


 -
Sand-core glass amulets (4th-3rd BCE) from Carthage, Tunisia

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Mike111
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^He,he,he;

very interesting lioness, but we were all expecting your usual picture of Kenny G; or Horshack to explain away the Phoenicians "Curly Hair".
.

 -  -

.
Shame on you, you know how much Narmer enjoys that.

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the lioness,
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 -

that's right Mike, curly hair can cross the color line

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the lioness,
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Kenny G has nice hair but I'm not a fan. I prefer Grover
However I know Narmertot is a big fan of the G Man so here's his duet with Stevie Wonder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZpDbIrpP5E

Bonus:

Jeff Lorber Fusion ft. Kenny G - Night Love

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYV_UGUvejw

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Mike111
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:

that's right Mike, curly hair can cross the color line

.
Stupid bitch, you are trying to make the exception the rule. Curly hair is not common in pure Albinos, however, it is common in the "Roons". i.e. Quadroons, Octoroons, etc.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:

that's right Mike, curly hair can cross the color line

.
Stupid bitch, you are trying to make the exception the rule. Curly hair is not common in pure Albinos, however, it is common in the "Roons". i.e. Quadroons, Octoroons, etc.

 -


 -

you're right, afro hair is more common in albinos than curly

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the lioness,
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 -
A Young female royal attendant from entrance to a bath of the Tachara Palace (Persepolis), carries a cruse of oil and a towel


The truth is revealed when you see the beardless ones, the females.

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Mike111
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
 -
A Young female royal attendant from entrance to a bath of the Tachara Palace (Persepolis), carries a cruse of oil and a towel


The truth is revealed when you see the beardless ones, the females.

.
Ha,ha,ha,ha:

lets see if I have this straight (pardon the pun):

Black MEN have curly hair;

But NORMALLY BLACK Women have STRAIGHT hair.

So that relief proves that BLACK women can have Curly hair TOO!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What a fuching idiot!


Btw - I don't think that's a female.

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Mike111
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
 -
A Young female royal attendant from entrance to a bath of the Tachara Palace (Persepolis), carries a cruse of oil and a towel


The truth is revealed when you see the beardless ones, the females.

.
As I said, that's not a Persian female:

THIS (on the left - with Breasts, and Afro) is Persian females.

.
 -

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Ish Geber
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
 -
A Young female royal attendant from entrance to a bath of the Tachara Palace (Persepolis), carries a cruse of oil and a towel


The truth is revealed when you see the beardless ones, the females.

Awesome,


 -


http://a397.idata.over-blog.com/4/33/08/69/Suse-decor-palais-Darius-Louvre/Suse-decor-palais-Darius-Louvre-1074.JPG

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the questioner
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so basically none of you can prove that Carthage had coins

Mike Markowitz has no evidence to support his claim
those coins are roman coins not Carthaginian

shekels do not exist
i have not found a single reference in any ancient source that supports the existence of shekels

shekels are completely made up by 19th century archaeologist
shekel is an corruption of Sicily
(sicil,secel, sekel, shekel or shekely) sicily is actually pronounced "sikilly" not "sissyly"

those coins are Sicilian coins not Phoenician or Carthaginian

if im wrong please show me one reference that proves Carthage had coins
because there is no reference so far that proves any existence of coins

--------------------
Questions expose liars

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DD'eDeN
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I don't know about Carthage or its money.

Shekel was not ancient Hebrew for circle/coin?

I thought I've seen pics of Phoenician money -
1) clay envelopes with simple-shape tokens,
2) metal ox-skins
3) coins with heads of ox - bulls

shekel might be from xya-ngolu sky-coil ~ kikel

--------------------
xyambuatlaya

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb]  -
A Young female royal attendant from entrance to a bath of the Tachara Palace (Persepolis), carries a cruse of oil and a towel


The truth is revealed when you see the beardless ones, the females.

.
As I said, that's not a Persian female:


Yes it is


 -

Look at the features, not that different

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
[QB] so basically none of you can prove that Carthage had coins


Carthage was founded by Phoenicians
The Phoenicians came from what is now Lebanon
They had coins called Tyrian shekels and these were used in Carthage

the coins bore the likeness of the Phoenician god Melqart or Baal, accepted as the Olympian Herakles by the Greeks and derided as Beelzebub by Jews in the time of the Seleucids, wearing the laurel reflecting his role in the Tyrian games and the ancient Olympic Games.

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Narmerthoth
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Both of the above engravings appear to my 20/20 vision as male.
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Mike111
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^The idiot lioness is just trolling, best to ignore.
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DD'eDeN
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Shekel, as I noted, seems to fit xy-golu which could be sky-coil, skin-gold, shine-curl, shell/scale or others. But in particular, shekel seems to link to !hxaro (KhoiSan) etched eggshell exchange. Making, gifting and trading of center-punched/drilled ostrich shell disks strung on twined fiber necklaces & bracelets was extremely common in the Old world, from Southern Africa to Sea of Galillee to Ukraine, some ancient graves had thousands of the round flat beads along with a few pierced snail shells or shiney stones. They likely gave rise to the abacus and holed Chinese coins. Seems to me "shekel" is very ancient, not recently invented. It is likely related to cheltia round-shield (Aztec) and ma'gal round fort (Hebrew).

Perhaps using leather money represented oxen. Modern money valuation in loans ie. Interest originated in the care-taking of a herd of cows to distant pastures and the care-taker later receiving the calves as interest.

DD ~ David ~ Da'ud ~ Diode ~ ∆^¥°∆

--------------------
xyambuatlaya

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Narmerthoth:
Both of the above engravings appear to my 20/20 vision as male.

The lower one is a boy and also when you see it in the full scene he and his three comrades are shorter than the adults

The Persians of this period made all the various ethnic groups look like that had very similar features. Perhaps they are all based on a Persian prototype
Looking at those two above how would you characterize them ethnologically?

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the questioner
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
[QB] so basically none of you can prove that Carthage had coins


Carthage was founded by Phoenicians
The Phoenicians came from what is now Lebanon
They had coins called Tyrian shekels and these were used in Carthage

the coins bore the likeness of the Phoenician god Melqart or Baal, accepted as the Olympian Herakles by the Greeks and derided as Beelzebub by Jews in the time of the Seleucids, wearing the laurel reflecting his role in the Tyrian games and the ancient Olympic Games.

i don't want no regurgitation
you must remember that the Phoenicians are not Greeks so coins would not be used by them

the gods and goddesses that are depicted on the coins of Phoenicia are Greek and roman gods not Phoenician
(Phoenicians did not wear "laurels")

the Greeks used to trade with Phoenicians and Alexander the great conquered Phoenicia

if you keep insisting that the coins are Phoenician then you will have to prove it

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DD'eDeN
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Define coin. Metal only?

--------------------
xyambuatlaya

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DD'eDeN
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https://www.britannica.com/topic/Tanit

Thinite? Dr. Winters script?

--------------------
xyambuatlaya

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the questioner
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quote:
Originally posted by DD'eDeN:
Define coin. Metal only?

round piece of metal with a image on it
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
[QB] so basically none of you can prove that Carthage had coins


Carthage was founded by Phoenicians
The Phoenicians came from what is now Lebanon
They had coins called Tyrian shekels and these were used in Carthage

the coins bore the likeness of the Phoenician god Melqart or Baal, accepted as the Olympian Herakles by the Greeks and derided as Beelzebub by Jews in the time of the Seleucids, wearing the laurel reflecting his role in the Tyrian games and the ancient Olympic Games.

i don't want no regurgitation
you must remember that the Phoenicians are not Greeks so coins would not be used by them

the gods and goddesses that are depicted on the coins of Phoenicia are Greek and roman gods not Phoenician
(Phoenicians did not wear "laurels")

the Greeks used to trade with Phoenicians and Alexander the great conquered Phoenicia

if you keep insisting that the coins are Phoenician then you will have to prove it

Why do you want the coins not to be Phoenician? That is the real question.

there was trading going on so they would have to exchange currency, the imagery syncretic

We need context and background:


quote:


The coinage of Carthage was first minted from the 5th century BCE. Initially adopting the drachma, the Carthaginians later minted silver shekel coins. Designs were instantly recognisable, as intended, and included famous figures such as Hannibal or local flora and fauna like the palm tree and elephant.

Carthage, like its Phoenician founders and many other ancient Mediterranean trading cultures, was a relatively late entrant into the world of coins. Greece and its colonies had already been using them for several centuries. Barter and exchange were the tried and tested form of payment in the ancient world prior to coinage, and this system was particularly useful for nations like Carthage which traded in far-flung places where minted coins were less useful and their value not always recognised. Eventually, though, the convenience of transporting ingots of specific weights made from precious and semi-precious metals convinced the Carthaginians to adopt this method, and from there it was but a small step to minting even more manageable forms of payment in the shape of coins.

The first Carthaginian coins were not actually minted at the home city of Carthage but in Sicily sometime in the late 5th century BCE, not coincidentally, a place which had long produced its own coins. The beginning of a Carthaginian controlled mint was likely driven, as it had been earlier in wider Greece, by the necessity to pay mercenary troops. Soldiers in the field did not have much use for heavy metal ingots and nor could they conveniently carry about large quantities of goods such as grain or other foodstuffs. The military campaigns of Carthage in western Sicily from 409 and 405 BCE and the arrival of coinage were not, then, unrelated.

The first Carthaginian coins were made of either silver or bronze and copied the Greek tetradrachm (four-drachma) coin and its denominations famously produced by Athens.

Coins in the ancient world were an important means to convey political and cultural messages by presenting the heads of rulers and figures from local mythology. Carthage was no different, and their coins depicted such important figures as Dido (aka Elissa and distinguished by her soft Phrygian cap with long neck and earflaps) who was the legendary founder of Carthage, the god Melqart (typically wearing a lionskin headdress and/or carrying a club), the goddesses Tanit, Astarte, and more rarely Isis, and the great generals Hamilcar Barca and Hannibal. Other popular and instantly recognisable designs were a ship's prow, the palm tree, horse (either just the head or whole), lion, and war elephant

Carthaginian coins sometimes bore legends as well as pictures which included the city of issue, such as Sys (Panormus) and Qart-hadasht, or words indicating their immediate destination: mhnt (army), 'm mhnt (people of the army), mhsbm (paymasters), and b'rst ('in the territories', e.g. Sicily and Spain).



 -

Here we have a Tunisian palm tee


Historian say that Carthage had coins. Phoenicians colonies in Africa like Carthage were founded on trade so it made sense for them to have coins for that purpose since their partner had coins.


You are doing what you typically do
You take something that is historical and suggest that it was not true

That is fine if you were to start with the standard background as I am doing and them to question it

But instead what you do is make a unique claim and then suggest that if other people can't disprove it it is therefore true.
So you put the burden of proof on them when it should be on you who are suggesting something unusual


But that is your responsibility

That is why people write scientific articles instead of asking a question so that everybody else does the work

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the questioner
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
[QB] so basically none of you can prove that Carthage had coins


Carthage was founded by Phoenicians
The Phoenicians came from what is now Lebanon
They had coins called Tyrian shekels and these were used in Carthage

the coins bore the likeness of the Phoenician god Melqart or Baal, accepted as the Olympian Herakles by the Greeks and derided as Beelzebub by Jews in the time of the Seleucids, wearing the laurel reflecting his role in the Tyrian games and the ancient Olympic Games.

i don't want no regurgitation
you must remember that the Phoenicians are not Greeks so coins would not be used by them

the gods and goddesses that are depicted on the coins of Phoenicia are Greek and roman gods not Phoenician
(Phoenicians did not wear "laurels")

the Greeks used to trade with Phoenicians and Alexander the great conquered Phoenicia

if you keep insisting that the coins are Phoenician then you will have to prove it

Why do you want the coins not to be Phoenician? That is the real question.

there was trading going on so they would have to exchange currency, the imagery syncretic

We need context and background:


quote:


The coinage of Carthage was first minted from the 5th century BCE. Initially adopting the drachma, the Carthaginians later minted silver shekel coins. Designs were instantly recognisable, as intended, and included famous figures such as Hannibal or local flora and fauna like the palm tree and elephant.

Carthage, like its Phoenician founders and many other ancient Mediterranean trading cultures, was a relatively late entrant into the world of coins. Greece and its colonies had already been using them for several centuries. Barter and exchange were the tried and tested form of payment in the ancient world prior to coinage, and this system was particularly useful for nations like Carthage which traded in far-flung places where minted coins were less useful and their value not always recognised. Eventually, though, the convenience of transporting ingots of specific weights made from precious and semi-precious metals convinced the Carthaginians to adopt this method, and from there it was but a small step to minting even more manageable forms of payment in the shape of coins.

The first Carthaginian coins were not actually minted at the home city of Carthage but in Sicily sometime in the late 5th century BCE, not coincidentally, a place which had long produced its own coins. The beginning of a Carthaginian controlled mint was likely driven, as it had been earlier in wider Greece, by the necessity to pay mercenary troops. Soldiers in the field did not have much use for heavy metal ingots and nor could they conveniently carry about large quantities of goods such as grain or other foodstuffs. The military campaigns of Carthage in western Sicily from 409 and 405 BCE and the arrival of coinage were not, then, unrelated.

The first Carthaginian coins were made of either silver or bronze and copied the Greek tetradrachm (four-drachma) coin and its denominations famously produced by Athens.

Coins in the ancient world were an important means to convey political and cultural messages by presenting the heads of rulers and figures from local mythology. Carthage was no different, and their coins depicted such important figures as Dido (aka Elissa and distinguished by her soft Phrygian cap with long neck and earflaps) who was the legendary founder of Carthage, the god Melqart (typically wearing a lionskin headdress and/or carrying a club), the goddesses Tanit, Astarte, and more rarely Isis, and the great generals Hamilcar Barca and Hannibal. Other popular and instantly recognisable designs were a ship's prow, the palm tree, horse (either just the head or whole), lion, and war elephant

Carthaginian coins sometimes bore legends as well as pictures which included the city of issue, such as Sys (Panormus) and Qart-hadasht, or words indicating their immediate destination: mhnt (army), 'm mhnt (people of the army), mhsbm (paymasters), and b'rst ('in the territories', e.g. Sicily and Spain).



 -

Here we have a Tunisian palm tee


Historian say that Carthage had coins. Phoenicians colonies in Africa like Carthage were founded on trade so it made sense for them to have coins for that purpose since their partner had coins.


You are doing what you typically do
You take something that is historical and suggest that it was not true

That is fine if you were to start with the standard background as I am doing and them to question it

But instead what you do is make a unique claim and then suggest that if other people can't disprove it it is therefore true.
So you put the burden of proof on them when it should be on you who are suggesting something unusual


But that is your responsibility

That is why people write scientific articles instead of asking a question so that everybody else does the work

^^^you cant even prove the coin you presented is even Carthaginian
that coin was brought there by Agathocles

palm trees are all over the Mediterranean
how do you know the palm tree on the coin is Tunisian?

your problem is that you are not a historian nor do you think like one

you think that quoting modern historians who are guessing and conjecturing is some how proving

im sorry but studying history does not work that way

you need to show me a single source from a ancient Greek or roman that supports the use of coins being used by Carthage or phoenicia
(so far you have not shown one)
i have proved that the Carthaginians have used leather money
"the Carthaginians make use of the following kind of money: in a small piece of leather a substance is wrapped of the size of a piece of four drachmae but what this substance is no one knows but the maker. after this it is sealed and issued for circulation; and he who possesses the most of this is regarded as having the most money and as being the wealthiest man. but if any one among us(Greeks) ever had so much, he would be no richer than if he possessed a quantity of pebbles." aeshines
this reference is the only reference that describes Carthaginian money

where is your ancient references? [Wink]

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


where is your ancient references? [Wink] [/QB]

Are you claiming that the Phoenicians had no coins?
Yes or no please, then we can proceed

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


where is your ancient references? [Wink]

Are you claiming that the Phoenicians had no coins?
Yes or no please, then we can proceed [/QB]

there is no evidence Phoenicians used coins

the Phoenicians allegedly wrote on Greek coins just like they did on Egyptian coffins
but they did not make coins themselves

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


where is your ancient references? [Wink]

Are you claiming that the Phoenicians had no coins?
Yes or no please, then we can proceed

there is no evidence Phoenicians used coins

the Phoenicians allegedly wrote on Greek coins just like they did on Egyptian coffins
but they did not make coins themselves [/QB]

quote:

wikipedia:

a modern Israeli half-shekel and were issued by Tyre, in that form, between 126 BC and 56 AD. Earlier Tyrian coins with the value of a tetradrachm, bearing various inscriptions and images, had been issued beginning in the latter half of the fifth century B.C.[2]

After the Roman Empire closed down the mint in Tyre,

So you believe there is no evidence or record of the Romans shutting down a mint in Tyre?
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


where is your ancient references? [Wink]

Are you claiming that the Phoenicians had no coins?
Yes or no please, then we can proceed

there is no evidence Phoenicians used coins

the Phoenicians allegedly wrote on Greek coins just like they did on Egyptian coffins
but they did not make coins themselves

quote:

wikipedia:

a modern Israeli half-shekel and were issued by Tyre, in that form, between 126 BC and 56 AD. Earlier Tyrian coins with the value of a tetradrachm, bearing various inscriptions and images, had been issued beginning in the latter half of the fifth century B.C.[2]

After the Roman Empire closed down the mint in Tyre,

So you believe there is no evidence or record of the Romans shutting down a mint in Tyre? [/QB]
your talking about post Alexander the great era

Egypt did not have coins neither until the time of Ptolemy

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quote:


Carthage

Historia Numorum

Carthago (Müller, ii, pp. 66 sqq.). It is noteworthy that this wealthy commercial state, with its population of some 700,000 inhabitants, made no use whatever of coined money until the great invasion of Sicily, B.C. 410, brought her armies for the second time into contact with the Greeks. Then and not till then does it appear that the necessity arose for striking coins, and it may be assumed that the payment of the troops employed in the devastation of the flourishing Hellenic settlements in that island was the immediate occasion of the coinage. That the use of coined money and the art of coining were borrowed by the Carthaginians from their Greek enemies is obvious from the adoption of the Sicilian type of the head of Persephone, and from the unmistakably Greek style of the earliest Carthaginian pieces.

Some of the types appear to be characteristically Carthaginian; e. g. the palm-tree (φοινιξ), which is evidently a canting type, and the horse’s head, which seems to allude to the foundation-legend mentioned by Virgil (Aen. i. 442 ff.). Otherwise, the Punic inscription is the only indication that these series of coins are not purely Greek, and there is every reason to think that they were struck in Sicily and not in Africa, and that Greek artists were employed to engrave the coin-dies. In several instances the names of Carthaginian towns in Sicily occur upon the coins, such as רש מלקרת, Resh Melqarth = Cephaloedium, המטוא Motya, ציץ = Panormus (?), ארך Eryx, כפרא Kfra (Kaphara, Village) = Solus. These have been already described under the cities whose names they bear (pp. 136, 139, 158, 161 f., and 170). There are, however, several other series bearing the inscriptions קרתחדשת, Qart Chadsat (= New city of Carthage); מחנת, Machanat (= the Camp); עם מחנת ,עם המחנת, or שעם מחנת, Am Machanat, Am hammachanat, or Shâm Machanat (People of the Camp); מחשבם, Mechasbim (the Quaestors), &c., which cannot be distinctly classed to any particular locality in Sicily. Such coins may therefore be appropriately described as Siculo-Punic, that is to say, as coins struck in Sicily for the payment of the Carthaginian armies. The following are the principal varieties (see Holm, Gesch. Sic., iii, pp. 643 ff.):—

Siculo-Punic Coins. c. B.C. 410-310.
GOLD. Phoenician Standard



http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=carthage


Do you agree with this?

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:


Carthage

Historia Numorum

Carthago (Müller, ii, pp. 66 sqq.). It is noteworthy that this wealthy commercial state, with its population of some 700,000 inhabitants, made no use whatever of coined money until the great invasion of Sicily, B.C. 410, brought her armies for the second time into contact with the Greeks. Then and not till then does it appear that the necessity arose for striking coins, and it may be assumed that the payment of the troops employed in the devastation of the flourishing Hellenic settlements in that island was the immediate occasion of the coinage. That the use of coined money and the art of coining were borrowed by the Carthaginians from their Greek enemies is obvious from the adoption of the Sicilian type of the head of Persephone, and from the unmistakably Greek style of the earliest Carthaginian pieces.

Some of the types appear to be characteristically Carthaginian; e. g. the palm-tree (φοινιξ), which is evidently a canting type, and the horse’s head, which seems to allude to the foundation-legend mentioned by Virgil (Aen. i. 442 ff.). Otherwise, the Punic inscription is the only indication that these series of coins are not purely Greek, and there is every reason to think that they were struck in Sicily and not in Africa, and that Greek artists were employed to engrave the coin-dies. In several instances the names of Carthaginian towns in Sicily occur upon the coins, such as רש מלקרת, Resh Melqarth = Cephaloedium, המטוא Motya, ציץ = Panormus (?), ארך Eryx, כפרא Kfra (Kaphara, Village) = Solus. These have been already described under the cities whose names they bear (pp. 136, 139, 158, 161 f., and 170). There are, however, several other series bearing the inscriptions קרתחדשת, Qart Chadsat (= New city of Carthage); מחנת, Machanat (= the Camp); עם מחנת ,עם המחנת, or שעם מחנת, Am Machanat, Am hammachanat, or Shâm Machanat (People of the Camp); מחשבם, Mechasbim (the Quaestors), &c., which cannot be distinctly classed to any particular locality in Sicily. Such coins may therefore be appropriately described as Siculo-Punic, that is to say, as coins struck in Sicily for the payment of the Carthaginian armies. The following are the principal varieties (see Holm, Gesch. Sic., iii, pp. 643 ff.):—

Siculo-Punic Coins. c. B.C. 410-310.
GOLD. Phoenician Standard



http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=carthage


Do you agree with this?

absolutely not because Persephone is a Greek goddess

this source is conjecture passed off as fact
(you have to be careful with modern historians because they are famous for passing conjecture as fact)

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It says


That the use of coined money and the art of coining were borrowed by the Carthaginians from their Greek enemies is obvious from the adoption of the Sicilian type of the head of Persephone, and from the unmistakably Greek style of the earliest Carthaginian pieces.

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
It says


That the use of coined money and the art of coining were borrowed by the Carthaginians from their Greek enemies is obvious from the adoption of the Sicilian type of the head of Persephone, and from the unmistakably Greek style of the earliest Carthaginian pieces.

what ancient source supports that they borrowed coins from Sicily
this is conjecture

agathocles of Syracuse brought money with him to North Africa

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 -

Is this a Punic coin?

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http://www.polatkaya.net/PHOENICIAN%20CITY%20OF%20GADES%20Part%203.htm

 -

Figure 7 From A. Di Natale: “Drachm, Phoenician Punic coin in silver from Gadir, III b.C. (3.3 g);

obverse: Head of Melkart-Herakles left, wearing lion's skin headdress; club on left shoulder;

reverse: tuna-fish left Phoenician script MP'L (PK: MP’M or MF’M) above and 'GDR below.”

_____________________

above and below the fish is Phoenician writing

need I say more?

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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
It says


That the use of coined money and the art of coining were borrowed by the Carthaginians from their Greek enemies is obvious from the adoption of the Sicilian type of the head of Persephone, and from the unmistakably Greek style of the earliest Carthaginian pieces.

what ancient source supports that they borrowed coins from Sicily
this is conjecture

agathocles of Syracuse brought money with him to North Africa

It's obvious you have been wasting your time with the lioness. [Big Grin]
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb]  -
A Young female royal attendant from entrance to a bath of the Tachara Palace (Persepolis), carries a cruse of oil and a towel


The truth is revealed when you see the beardless ones, the females.

.
As I said, that's not a Persian female:


Yes it is


 -

Look at the features, not that different

True, neither did they in color complexion.


 -

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quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
It says


That the use of coined money and the art of coining were borrowed by the Carthaginians from their Greek enemies is obvious from the adoption of the Sicilian type of the head of Persephone, and from the unmistakably Greek style of the earliest Carthaginian pieces.

what ancient source supports that they borrowed coins from Sicily
this is conjecture

agathocles of Syracuse brought money with him to North Africa

It's obvious you have been wasting your time with the lioness. [Big Grin]
Of course he hasn't. I am the only one who actually did research to address his question while you are now trolling posting off topic pictures of Persians

Read the thread topic and stop trolling

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
 -

Is this a Punic coin?

that is a Italian coin struck in the honor of a famous Punic (hannibal)
this is the only portrait of a Punic on a coin

hannibal after the battle of trasimene declared "I have come not to make war on the Italians, but to aid the Italians against Rome."
this won Hannibal great respect among the Italians

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
http://www.polatkaya.net/PHOENICIAN%20CITY%20OF%20GADES%20Part%203.htm

 -

Figure 7 From A. Di Natale: “Drachm, Phoenician Punic coin in silver from Gadir, III b.C. (3.3 g);

obverse: Head of Melkart-Herakles left, wearing lion's skin headdress; club on left shoulder;

reverse: tuna-fish left Phoenician script MP'L (PK: MP’M or MF’M) above and 'GDR below.”

_____________________

above and below the fish is Phoenician writing

need I say more?

that is a Greek coin with Phoenician writing on it
like i said earlier the Phoenicians put their graffiti on other cultures art work

they also put their graffiti on Persian and Egyptian coffins

the image on the coin is Hercules (draped in lion skin) not melqart
 -

eshmunazar is written on an Egyptian coffin

 -

tabnit sarcophagus
the portrait on the coffin is actually pharaoh psamtik not king tabnit

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 -
Hercules coin of Alexander the great

 -
https://cdn-images-

 -

 -

 -
these coins are Greek as well as the one you showed

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I just read that Phoenician murex purple dye was more valuable than gold of the same weight.

--------------------
xyambuatlaya

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
http://www.polatkaya.net/PHOENICIAN%20CITY%20OF%20GADES%20Part%203.htm

 -

Figure 7 From A. Di Natale: “Drachm, Phoenician Punic coin in silver from Gadir, III b.C. (3.3 g);

obverse: Head of Melkart-Herakles left, wearing lion's skin headdress; club on left shoulder;

reverse: tuna-fish left Phoenician script MP'L (PK: MP’M or MF’M) above and 'GDR below.”

_____________________

above and below the fish is Phoenician writing

need I say more?

^The Phoenician writing on this coin is molded into the metal of the coin, not graffiti.


 -

^The Phoenician writing on this coin is molded into the metal of the coin not graffiti.


 -

^The Phoenician writing on this coin is molded into the metal of the coin not graffiti.

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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] http://www.polatkaya.net/PHOENICIAN%20CITY%20OF%20GADES%20Part%203.htm

 -

Figure 7 From A. Di Natale: “Drachm, Phoenician Punic coin in silver from Gadir, III b.C. (3.3 g);

obverse: Head of Melkart-Herakles left, wearing lion's skin headdress; club on left shoulder;

reverse: tuna-fish left Phoenician script MP'L (PK: MP’M or MF’M) above and 'GDR below.”

_____________________

above and below the fish is Phoenician writing

need I say more?

that is a Greek coin with Phoenician writing on it
like i said earlier the Phoenicians put their graffiti on other cultures art work

they also put their graffiti on Persian and Egyptian coffins

the image on the coin is Hercules (draped in lion skin) not melqart



I told you before, you have been wasting your time.


I also read awhile ago, that of the art on coins represented Greek deities. I forgot which museum it was.

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
http://www.polatkaya.net/PHOENICIAN%20CITY%20OF%20GADES%20Part%203.htm

 -

Figure 7 From A. Di Natale: “Drachm, Phoenician Punic coin in silver from Gadir, III b.C. (3.3 g);

obverse: Head of Melkart-Herakles left, wearing lion's skin headdress; club on left shoulder;

reverse: tuna-fish left Phoenician script MP'L (PK: MP’M or MF’M) above and 'GDR below.”

_____________________

above and below the fish is Phoenician writing

need I say more?

^The Phoenician writing on this coin is molded into the metal of the coin, not graffiti.


 -

^The Phoenician writing on this coin is molded into the metal of the coin not graffiti.


 -

^The Phoenician writing on this coin is molded into the metal of the coin not graffiti.

case closed i proved my point
graffiti can be molded on a coin

you can not deny that the images on the coins are Greek

the man on the coin is Hercules not melqart

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quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] http://www.polatkaya.net/PHOENICIAN%20CITY%20OF%20GADES%20Part%203.htm

 -

Figure 7 From A. Di Natale: “Drachm, Phoenician Punic coin in silver from Gadir, III b.C. (3.3 g);

obverse: Head of Melkart-Herakles left, wearing lion's skin headdress; club on left shoulder;

reverse: tuna-fish left Phoenician script MP'L (PK: MP’M or MF’M) above and 'GDR below.”

_____________________

above and below the fish is Phoenician writing

need I say more?

that is a Greek coin with Phoenician writing on it
like i said earlier the Phoenicians put their graffiti on other cultures art work

they also put their graffiti on Persian and Egyptian coffins

the image on the coin is Hercules (draped in lion skin) not melqart



I told you before, you have been wasting your time.


I also read awhile ago, that of the art on coins represented Greek deities. I forgot which museum it was.

obviously these are Greek deities because Phoenicians did not have coins
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the lioness,
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 -


Oxford English Dictionary

graffiti
PLURAL NOUN

treated as singular or plural Writing or drawings scribbled, scratched, or sprayed illicitly on a wall or other surface in a public place

___________________________________________________

The Phoenicans had coins and a mint in Tyre, obviously you don't know what "graffiti" means

Did these coins have a greek deity on them or was the image a dual purpose syncretic image functioning both as Melkart and Hercules?

It doesn't even matter. Suppose the face on it is entirely Hercules
that doesn't change the fact that there is no graffiti on the coin

The reason why this coin has Phoenician writing on it is because THE PHOENICIANS HAD COINS AND THIS IS ONE OF THEM
that's why it has Phoenician writing on it, no other reason .

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Coins of Sidon, now in Lebanon


 -
Sidon, Phoenicia, AR Double Shekel. Uncertain King, 460-450 BC. Phoenician war-galley left at the base of a city wall surmounted by five battlemented towers; two lions salient addorsed below / Persian King, wearing tiara and candys, raising right hand, standing left in horse-drawn chariot driven by charioteer. BMC 4-8; Rouvier 1082-1084; cf Sear 5934.


 -
Phoenicia, Sidon, Uncertain king AR Half Shekel. 405-395 BC. Galley left before four city towers, two lions addorsed below; Phoenician letter Beth above / King of Persia standing right, slaying lion standing on its hind legs before him. Rouvier 1092; Betlyon 14.


 -
Bust of the Punic goddess Tanit found in the Carthaginian necropolis of Puig des Molins, dated 4th century BC,

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