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Europeans(Davidski and his crew), in denial again that modern Europeans are depigmented Africans. Lol! They just can’t believe it…..lol!
From the Davidski webiste ----- Modern-day Europeans: a post-Neolithic product
There's a new preprint at bioRxiv looking at the relationship between ancient and modern-day Europeans. I think it misses its mark, because the author concludes that the Neolithic transition created the modern-day European gene pool.
This is only partly true, because modern-day Europeans are in fact, by and large, the product of intense Indo-European expansions from the Late Neolithic to the Migration period.
Just take a look the Y-haplogroup landscape in much of Europe and you'll see that our direct ancestors did not mostly spring from Neolithic farming communities. If you want to find them in the ancient DNA record, then seek out post-Neolithic populations rich in R1b-L51, R1a-Z645 and I1-M253.
By the way, the author uses Mormons from Utah (also known as CEU) to represent Europeans. I don't know if this is a problem, it might well be, but in any case, why Utah Mormons? Why not a wide variety of actual Europeans all the way from the Atlantic to the Urals? They're freely available online nowadays.
Abstract: Genetic material sequenced from ancient samples is revolutionizing our understanding of the recent evolutionary past. However, ancient DNA is often degraded, resulting in low coverage, error-prone sequencing. Several solutions exist to this problem, ranging from simple approach such as selecting a read at random for each site to more complicated approaches involving genotype likelihoods. In this work, we present a novel method for assessing the relationship of an ancient sample with a modern population while accounting for sequencing error by analyzing raw read from multiple ancient individuals simultaneously. We show that when analyzing SNP data, it is better to sequencing more ancient samples to low coverage: two samples sequenced to 0.5x coverage provide better resolution than a single sample sequenced to 2x coverage. We also examined the power to detect whether an ancient sample is directly ancestral to a modern population, finding that with even a few high coverage individuals, even ancient samples that are very slightly diverged from the modern population can be detected with ease. When we applied our approach to European samples, we found that no ancient samples represent direct ancestors of modern Europeans. We also found that, as shown previously, the most ancient Europeans appear to have had the smallest effective population sizes, indicating a role for agriculture in modern population growth.
Joshua Schraiber, Assessing the relationship of ancient and modern populations, bioRxiv, Posted March 4, 2017, doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/113779 ---
One thing I have to agree with Davidski is the male line appeared or at least started dominating Europe AFTER the Neolithic. The female line is most definitely African pre/Neolithic. Sergi, Coon and recent autosomal data points to the Neolithic’s being Africans through Craniology. Now that leaves the question of where the male line came from. It has also to be African. Why? The males are ALSO Autosomaly AFRICAN. If the autosomes are African then the nR-Y-DNA is also African. THEY GO TOGETHER…unfortunately. Lol!
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As I said. Europeans are depigmented Africans. Migrating to Europe through Sardinia and Iberia and to a small extent the Levant. The evidence points to land bridges connecting the two lands. Lol!. Don’t believe me? This is aDNA found in 10,000year old Sardiniand
QUOTE ---
More surprises from pre-Neolithic Southern Europe courtesy of a new paper at Scientific Reports. Emphasis is mine:
Abstract: Little is known about the genetic prehistory of Sardinia because of the scarcity of pre-Neolithic human remains. From a genetic perspective, modern Sardinians are known as genetic outliers in Europe, showing unusually high levels of internal diversity and a close relationship to early European Neolithic farmers. However, how far this peculiar genetic structure extends and how it originated was to date impossible to test. Here we present the first and oldest complete mitochondrial sequences from Sardinia, dated back to 10,000 yBP. These two individuals, while confirming a Mesolithic occupation of the island, belong to rare mtDNA lineages, which have never been found before in Mesolithic samples and that are currently present at low frequencies not only in Sardinia, but in the whole Europe. Preliminary Approximate Bayesian Computations, restricted by biased reference samples for Mesolithic Sardinia (the two typed samples) and Neolithic Europe (limited to central and north European sequences), suggest that the first inhabitants of the island have had a small or negligible contribution to the present-day Sardinian population, which mainly derives its genetic diversity from continental migration into the island by Neolithic times.
...
The CAR-H8 sample belongs to haplogroup I3, hence representing, to the best of our knowledge, the first pre-Neolithic sample carrying the haplogroup I. Studies based on complete mitogenomes have previously reported haplogroup I in ancient samples from Iran (individual I674, haplogroup I1c) and Levant (individual I1679, haplogroup I), dated to 5,105 ± 35 yBP and 8,850–8,750 yBP, respectively [39]. It was also found in two late Neolithic individuals from Germany, both belonging to haplogroup I3a and dated to around 4,000 yBP [50] but not in previous periods in Europe. Nowadays, this haplogroup is uncommon; its frequency is about 2% in modern Sardinians, 3% across Europe, and raises at maximum 6% in Northern European countries [51]. This is the first time that haplogroup I is found in a Mesolithic individual in Europe and the fact that we recovered this haplogroup in a sample of only two sequences may mean that it was present at higher frequencies in pre-Neolithic Sardinians or, in general, in the population that first settled in the island. The other sample (CAR-H7) belongs to the haplogroup J2b1. The haplogroup J has already been found in late hunter-gatherer European populations, with a frequency of about 4% 32]. The current frequency of the haplogroup J is higher than that of the haplogroup I, variable in Europe from 1.7% (Caucasus) to 15% (Wales), and representing the 13% of the total modern Sardinians mitochondrial sequences. ---
From Wiki on mtDNA hg-I
QUOTE Distribution[edit]
Projected frequencies of mtDNA haplogroup I. Haplogroup I is found at moderate to low frequencies in East Africa, Europe, West Asia and South Asia (Fernandes 2012). The rare basal/paraphyletic clade I* has been observed in three individuals; two from Somalia and one from Iran (Olivieri 2013).
Africa[edit] Outside of Europe, the highest frequencies of mitochondrial haplogroup I observed so far appear in the Cushitic-speaking El Molo (23%) and Rendille (>17%) in northern Kenya (Castrì 2008). The clade is also found at comparable frequencies among the Socotri (~22%).
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Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! As I said many times. go where the data takes you.
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I know you don't like wiki but I seen an interesting quote.
By some authorities the Masai are included in the Hamitic group, but we have only to compare the features of a member of this tribe with those of a Galla... to realise the predominance of the negro element in the former. The aspect of the pure Hamite differs altogether from those of the Bantu and Negroid races. The... portrait of a Galla presents no correspondence with the conception usually formed of an African native. The forehead is high and square instead of low and receding; the nose is narrow, with the nostrils straight and not transverse; the chin is small and slightly pointed instead of massive and protruding; the hair is long and not woolly; the lips are thinner than those of the negro and not everted; the expression is intellectual, and indicates a type of mind higher than that of the simple negro. Indeed, except for the colour, it could hardly be distinguished from the face of a European. These characteristics prepare us for the fact that the Galla are not African, but immigrants from Asia.[26]
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Oromo Leader Roba Butta (Real Name: Goro Bubbe) in 1901 (Shortly After the Fall of the Arsi Territory). Photo by the French Traveler Du Bourg de Bozas; Photo Acquired from Gadaa.com Oromo Documents Archives,
posted
What!.... you guys still don't get it? WTF is a hamite or Kakazoid?
What a person "looks" like has no relevance. the only thing that correlates is GEOGRAPHY and GENETICS. THAT CANNOT CHANGE.
Undoubtedly Europeans are depigmented Africans. The question is why they look so different in most instances.
It goes back to ....plasticity. I tell you.
Humans can change and adapt in about 500years.
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In a non political sense looks don't matter you know better when looks are applied to civilization or anything white put value into regarding themselves,my comments was more about how a white person was describing African diversity that is in a agreement with what you have presented secondly your comment about plasticity is conflicting because as a concept or theory I seeing nothing wrong with it but it makes no sense when some of these earlier African still exist and they look vastly different from the contemporary population who in some instances are foreigners.
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Way to patronize Xyyman, you know damn well that Europeans clustering @K2 where we have one cluster belonging to the NATIVE AMERICANS, don't mean a damn thing. Stop trying to confuse readers man, a young gentleman like myself could've fell for that.
...after all, that ~20% non African mixture @K2 could very well be indicative of admixture from non-AMH and steppe populations ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°).
In regards to plasticity, you need to answer 2 things before I'd advise any body to buy into the idea. 1.Why didn't the adaptive pressures cause such a radical change in EHG's, over the course of over +50,000 years nor had an effect on East Asian phenotype (other than skin lightening, which has answers in genetics). 2. what happened to the other haplogroups, said to have contributed to contemporary European ancestry!?
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To the “young gentlemen” , sic, these cluster charts are very simple. @K2 the computer algorithm divides the SNPs found into TWO(K2) categories regardless of populations/origin. These may be several hundred or several 100,000’s SNP or Ancestry Informative Material(AIM). They use the “labels” non-African vs African. Why? Because the “non-African” AIM has high frequency outside Africa and in this case Native Americans. Notice this “non-African” AIM is also found IN Africa. loL! That does not mean that Native Americans back-migrated to Africa. SMH. The “non-African' component is ALSO African in origin and found throughout Africa but at low frequency because most Africans are also Neolithics and NOT hunter-gatherers.
So stop mis-directing. …Lioness.(wink)
Europeans carry more “African” AIM in this unsupervised Kluster/Cluster Chart. Why? Because Europeans are primarily African Neolithics. Europeans are depigmented Africans. End of story. It does not matter how and how much the try to spin the BS.
Don’t believe me? Keep reading all the DNA studies coming out.
It does matter what YOU advise. The facts are there. Within intelligent minds this is not even debatable. The debate is how come and why the fundamental physical difference? Plasticity is the only reasonable explanation I have seen thus far.
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If anyone has been keeping up there is no such things as “steppe migration to Europe”. It is internet folklore held by delusional red-necks with pickup trucks and Volvos who want to maintain their white identity that they are not depigmented Africans.
The adaptive pressure DID cause a radical change. Instead of speaking through the you know what. What does an EHG “look” like? What does a 50,000yo East Asian “look” like. Lol! SMH. You people.
???? What haplogroup in modern Europeans? Europeans are made up of TWO(or 3 depending) populations. HG were yDNA I and mtDNA U.
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Davidski has a rebellion on his hands…R-V88 is showing up in Ancient Europeans. loL! The Steppe hypothesis has come to an end. Only rabid racialist are holding up hope.
I thank you, I have to read the paper yet. That R-V88 was in Iberia, and that it came from Italy, is just my theory that I think having demonstrated, but we were discussing also about another possible R-M269 from Iberia. But the presence of WHG and specifically of Villabruna in these samples seems that is going in favour of my theory. We'll see...
Nirjhar007 said... R1b is NOT IE... March 7, 2017 at 2:48 AM
Rob said... @ Sam
Well, R1b looks proto-WHG at least. Look at the supplementary data figue. EHG is now 61% proto-WHG & 39% MA-1. Collectively, R1b looks WHG, even if some drifted onto the steppe at some point, and perhaps expanded back west. March 7, 2017 at 3:57 AM
Nirjhar007 said... Who gives a **** if its steppe or not , its not IE , that's the thing that matters.
I am not claiming any superiority you moron , THe Indo-Europeans were a successful lineage and that plain and simple , but I don't buy that crazy military dominant barbaric bullshit...
Its becoming evident day by day that R1b had nothing to do with IEs originally , they were assimilated later on. March 7, 2017 at 3:57 AM
Richard Rocca said... Gioiello said... But the R1b1a2-M269 from Iberia is confirmed against all what Rocca said against me and Genetiker.
Given that they used the ISOGG tree last month, R1b1a2 is indeed V88 and not M269. That must be very embarrassing for you. March 7, 2017 at 6:16 AM
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You never seen a preneolithic European mummy reconstruction before? Cu Oase, or your interpretation of la brana? It doesn't matter what ancient east Asians looked like, what matters is why the modern E.Asians don't more resemble Europeans, being that adaptive pressures are what shaped phenotype plasticly.
Also.... K2, << vs Native American .... K2! Xyyman ...have you ever read a paper where statistical significance peaked at K2... Especially when looking at unsupervised SNP's? - let alone a paper where general relatedness was inferred by analyzing 2 clusters?
Besides that here's some very loud peices of evidence that you are ignoring. - modern Europeans have the lowest score for genetic diversity. - modern Europeans are generally homogeneous when looking at area per gene ratio. - R1b now Dominates Europe. - Modern Europeans score highest for mutational load despite there being no evidence for ineffectiveness of removing deleterious mutations. ^ All of this and more that I can not think of off the top of my head points to an event, or multiple events of admixture, and or bottlenecks. It doesn't make sense to look away from genetics to try to understand why modern Europeans "look the way they do."
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Reluctantly, sometimes I think I am the smartest person out here. Just when I thought I had met an equal. Someone who has some rational and logical thinking….who is not into dogma and preconceived notions of what is and is not an Asian or European. Did you read my thread “ they found the race gene”?
Quote: “what matters is why the modern E.Asians don't more resemble Europeans, being that adaptive pressures are what shaped phenotype plasticly”.
---
“what matters is why the modern ‘ southern’ Negritos don't more resemble modern E Asians, being that adaptive pressures are what shaped phenotype plasticity”. ……..Tic! Toc! Tic! Toc! SMH
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The 10,000year old Sardinian is Kenyan? Ha! hA! Ha! Lol! Now R-V88 in ancient Europe. You know it takes a lot of kahuna’s for these racialist Europeans to publish the data. Earlier aDNA studies had consistently found mtDNA L in pre-historic Iberians. NoooW! Nada. What are they NOT disclosing?
------ Quote: “The CAR-H8 sample belongs to haplogroup I3, hence representing, to the best of our knowledge, the first pre-Neolithic sample carrying the haplogroup I.”
Quote: “Distribution[edit]
Projected frequencies of mtDNA haplogroup I. Haplogroup I is found at moderate to low frequencies in East Africa, Europe, West Asia and South Asia (Fernandes 2012). The rare basal/paraphyletic clade I* has been observed in three individuals; two from Somalia and one from Iran (Olivieri 2013).
Africa[edit] Outside of Europe, the highest frequencies of mitochondrial haplogroup I observed so far appear in the Cushitic-speaking El Molo (23%) and Rendille (>17%) in northern Kenya (Castrì 2008). The clade is also found at comparable frequencies among the Socotri (~22%).”
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xyyman you seem very focused on Europeans. If Europeans are depigmented plasticized Africans without heavy input from the Steppe, then who are the Steppe people descended from if they are in many cases depigmented as well?
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quote:Besides that here's some very loud peices of evidence that you are ignoring. - modern Europeans have the lowest score for genetic diversity. - modern Europeans are generally homogeneous when looking at area per gene ratio. - R1b now Dominates Europe. - Modern Europeans score highest for mutational load despite there being no evidence for ineffectiveness of removing deleterious mutations
... Preconceived notion of what? Evidence? You're taking a mighty leap to arrive at the conclusion of plasticity, a mechanism which you probably couldn't even explain biologically. The mystery is the event not the cause, comparing negritos to southern Chinese/ Koreans is pointless, for the genes that differentiate them for the most part have been identified.
You aren't thinking clearly.... Stop disrespecting biology bro lmao ...How does your theory explain everything I've listed above??
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It’s not a leap bro. A logical minds breaks things down. First, what are the FACTS? Second, what can we INFER from the facts. The fact is based upon unsupervised AIM Europeans are more African than Asian. Of course Asians are an older version of Africans(pre-Neolithic Africans). That is why African Hunter gatherers are closer to Asians/Native Americans than Neolithic Africans such as YRI. Only a retard will think the Native American ancestry found in hunter-gatherers of Africa was due to Native Americans migrating back-to-Africa. Lol! But these wackos are out there(sic)!. Also, that does not mean YRI don’t carry Native American ancestry because they do. ALL ancestry is African.
The inference? Why an African population living in Europe suddenly morphed ie became depigmented, keeping in mind even Neanderthal was black for 300,000YEARS!!!!!!
Works by Coon and Sergi showed the Neolithic Europeans were a tropical people. We know their genes remained UNCHANGED….basically. so what do we have left?
“ when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbably , must be the truth”…plasticity?
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In fact I will do you one further. The really intriguing question ...the one to oddle your noddles...is why would a mutation for light skin occur IN tropical Africa or a lower latitude.
Answer?....tic! toc! tic! toc....toc!
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Xyyman can't see that his questions were already answered, furthermore he himself already answered these questions.
what are the facts?
quote:- modern Europeans have the lowest score for genetic diversity. - modern Europeans are generally homogeneous when looking at area per gene ratio. - R1b now Dominates Europe. - Modern Europeans score highest for mutational load despite there being no evidence for ineffectiveness of removing deleterious mutations
Neanderthal were mostly black. Neolithic Europeans were tropically adapted.
what can be inferred Europeans, went through multiple admixture events and one major bottleneck or evolutionary event recently. The event which resulted in widespread homogeneity have yet to be explained.
There are PLENTY of polymorphisms within coding regions of pigment related genes. The mutations don't occur because they NEED to they are SELECTED FOR because they are needed. In other words mutations aren't adaptions but if we so happen to have a mutation that increases survivability, chances are it will be passed don't more efficiently.
You remember that supp table you posted from malick showing the high level of snp diversity in Africans and basically the opposite for Europeans ...? remember how falloff in gene diversity was calculated via IBD? Do you not see how all of this coincides with what I've been posting, geneflow, bottlenecks, variations? Even if you were right about Africans entering Europe and morpholgically changing, how do you explain the disparity between African diversity and Europe, or even SSAn diversity and North Africa?
You're cutting corners.
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Come on Lioness we posted this a million times already. The genome of several Neanderthals are published. Cited already. "from James Watson to....". See the thread on ESR.
Neanderthal alleles for pigmentation is similar to La Brana. Ancestral alleles for all pigmentation genes.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: Neanderthal were mostly black.
do you have any proof?
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The point is 3 Neanderthal genome from Eurasia was published and is freely available. The so-called Denisovan also. ***ALL*** the alleles for pigmentation was ancestral like black Africans. Lol! If I am betting man what is good for the goose is good for the ….. lol! The racialist media don’t want to make widely known so they still display “artist impressions of Neanderthals “ with red-hair to appease their rabid audience. Which white person wants to pay money to see a black Neanderthal their supposed ancestors they are so proud of. White people are wack! Lol! SMH. Europeans! And their delusions. Lol! They prefer to believe a lie than get at the truth.
Their new delusional fairy tale? The Western European “MALES”(not females) are from the wide Steppes of Asia who came charging on Horse backs and chariots conquering lands, disposing of the indigenous men and raping the women. Really, I did not make this up. See my thread on ESR “off with their heads and unto their women”. Direct quote from lead researcher Mike Hammer and others. You can’t make this stuff up. Lol!
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: that is not a primary source quote and link
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When I post I serve two purposes. To educate newbies and also to answer your question at the same time opening your mind.
That said -
Agreed : “The mutations don't occur because they NEED to they are SELECTED FOR because they are needed” . That is why I believe with trepidation that whit eskin alleles is ancestral but at the same time we became humans because we were black. Confused?
Quote : “supp table you posted from Malick showing the high level of snp diversity in Africans and basically the opposite for Europeans” .
yes, this is why researcher Shriver and Company had no other choice to concluded light skin originated in Africa and the clue came from the West Africans Cape Verdians. But they stopped at the pigmentation genes. It is only when I took a second look at the paper on Cape Verdian paper I realize they are North Africans, not West Africans, and it is quite possible R1b-M269 existed in this West African Island BEFORE European colonization. More work is needed there.
Quote : “remember how falloff in gene diversity was calculated via IBD “ -
Clearly you have a statistical background. But Statistics can be manipulated. I have a science/engineering background but I know enough about statistics to do damage. Lol! I look at things in the absolute. Sides the genetic is really High School Biology. It is not that complicated.
Quote: “Even if you were right about Africans entering Europe and morphologically changing”
“I” am not right. This is freely available information published by researchers. The transition is seen across the ***globe***. “Negroes” to the south and lighter skin to the North. I did not make this up. This is what it is. I remember I posted a paper several years ago and I lost it. It is buried somewhere on one of my computers. The researcher, from the 1900’s made the world population is really divided between North and South. I posted the paper on ESR and here but it will take me some time to find it.
As for the diversity of Europeans compared to Asians or North Africans? Asians are from the FIRST OOA and very old. There is no TWO populations to Asians as with Europeans. Paper cited. Europeans apparently started as a small hunter gatherer population ie bottle neck. Which later admixed with the incoming Neolithics who are also a subset of the greater Africans. Result…….less diversity. This is not rocket science.
quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: Xyyman can't see that his questions were already answered, furthermore he himself already answered these questions.
what are the facts?
quote:- modern Europeans have the lowest score for genetic diversity. - modern Europeans are generally homogeneous when looking at area per gene ratio. - R1b now Dominates Europe. - Modern Europeans score highest for mutational load despite there being no evidence for ineffectiveness of removing deleterious mutations
Neanderthal were mostly black. Neolithic Europeans were tropically adapted.
what can be inferred Europeans, went through multiple admixture events and one major bottleneck or evolutionary event recently. The event which resulted in widespread homogeneity have yet to be explained.
There are PLENTY of polymorphisms within coding regions of pigment related genes. The mutations don't occur because they NEED to they are SELECTED FOR because they are needed. In other words mutations aren't adaptions but if we so happen to have a mutation that increases survivability, chances are it will be passed don't more efficiently.
You remember that supp table you posted from malick showing the high level of snp diversity in Africans and basically the opposite for Europeans ...? remember how falloff in gene diversity was calculated via IBD? Do you not see how all of this coincides with what I've been posting, geneflow, bottlenecks, variations? Even if you were right about Africans entering Europe and morpholgically changing, how do you explain the disparity between African diversity and Europe, or even SSAn diversity and North Africa?
You're cutting corners.
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Blogger Olympus Mons said... @Ryan. We have no clue what North African Late neolithic population was. All we know is that they were the ones undergoing the most violent Climatic event, the birth of the Sahara desert.
Just watching Katie Manning work is clear that the vanishing of north African population was simultaneous with new, vast, population in Iberia. - So if someone is looking for a different population with a different WHG ancestry arriving to Iberia... why is the obvious not good?
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Gioiello said... @ Nirjhar007 "Dave, This is an important looking paper by Dr. Kivisild, you should blog?"
KIVISILD: WHO? [But in Italian it is better: Kivisild: Chi [ki]]?
A geneticist, who writes that, doesn't understand anything about haplogroup R1b
"In contrast to preceding Early and Middle Neolithic sections of time, a large proportion of the Y chromosomes recovered from Bronze Age remains of Central Europe, Northern Caucasus and the Steppe belt of Russia belong to a couple of sub-clades of haplogroups R1a-M420 and R1b-M343 (Fig. 7). Late Neolithic, Early Bronze Age and Iron Age samples from Central and Western Europe have typically the R1b-L11, R1a1-Z283 and R1a-M417 (xZ645) affiliation while the samples from the Yamnaya and Samara neighbourhood are different and belong to sub-clades R1b11-Z2105 and R1a2-Z93 (Allentoft et al. 2015; Cassidy et al. 2016; Haak et al. 2015; Mathieson et al. 2015; Schiffels et al. 2016). The R1b11-Z2015 lineage is today common in the Caucasus and Volga-Uralic region while being virtually absent in Central and Western Europe (Broushaki et al. 2016). Interestingly, the earliest offshoot of extant haplogroup R1b-M343 variation, the V88 subclade, which is currently most common in Fulani speaking populations in Africa (Cruciani et al. 2010) has distant relatives in Early Neolithic samples from across wide geographic area from Iberia, Germany to Samara (Fig. 7). In a similar way, early offshoots of the R1b and R1a phylogenies, including R1b lineages derived at P297 and ancestral at M269, and R1a lineages which are derived at M459 while ancestral at M198 and M417 markers have been found in mid-Holocene hunter-gatherer samples in a wide area in Eastern Europe, from Karelia, Latvia and Samara region (Haak et al. 2015; Jones et al. 2017; Mathieson et al. 2015). Extremely rare extant sub-clades of R1a, such as R1a4-YP5061, R1a5-YP1272, and R1a6-YP4141 (Fig. 7), may bear witness to a long-term continuity of such old genetic lineages while the majority of present-day R1a and R1b lineages in West Eurasia derives from just a handful of Late Neolithic/Early Bronze Age male founders". March 8, 2017 at 10:04 PM
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Blogger batman said... It's still somewhat thought-evoking that Russian geneticians seems to disagree with a "massive migration" from the Russian yamna-culture towards western Europe.
"For haplogroup R1b, we identified a previously unstudied “eastern” branch, R1b-GG400, found in East Europeans and West Asians and forming a brother clade to the “western” branch R1b-L51 found in West Europeans. The ancient samples from the Yamnaya archaeological culture are located on this eastern branch, showing that the paternal descendants of the Yamnaya population – in contrast to the published autosomal findings - still live in the Pontic steppe and were not an important source of paternal lineages in present-day West Europeans."
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Y-chromosomal sequencing and screening reveal both stability and migrations in North Eurasian populations.
Authors: O. Balanovsky 1,2 ; V. Zaporozhchenko 2,1 ; A. Agdzhoyan 1,2 ; I. Alborova 5 ; M. Kuznetsova 2 ; V. Urasin 3 ; M. Zhabagin 4 ; M. Chukhryaeva 2,1 ; Kh. Mustafin 5 ; C. Tyler-Smith 6 ; E. Balanovska 2
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Institutes 1) Vavilov Institute of General Genetics, Moscow, Russian Federation; 2) Research Centre for Medical Genetics, Moscow, Russia; 3) YFull service, Moscow, Russia; 4) National Laboratory Astana, Nazarbayev University, Astana, Republic of Kazakhstan; 5) Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology (State University), Moscow, Russia; 6) The Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute, Wellcome Trust Genome Campus, Hinxton, United Kingdom Abstract: Y-chromosomal markers exhibit the highest interpopulation diversity in the genome and thus form one of the most informative tools for tracing population history. However, their information value depends on discovering SNPs which subdivide haplogroups with broad geographic distribution into branches revealing fine population structure. Progress in such discoveries has recently moved from a slow linear phase to a rapid exponential phase due to NGS. We applied this approach to the Y-chromosomal pool of North Eurasian populations and concentrated on haplogroups C, G1, G2, N1b, N1c, and R1b. We sequenced 181 Y-chromosomes (capturing 11 Mb from each sample), developed the NGSConv software for calling Y-chromosomal SNPs, and identified roughly 2,500 SNPs, most of which were new. Then we constructed phylogenetic trees and dated dozens of their branches using our estimates of the mutation rate. The last – but not the least – step included screening branch-defining SNPs in the entire Biobank of indigenous North Eurasian populations (led by prof. Elena Balanovska), which includes 26,000 samples from 260 populations. This screening resulted in frequency distribution maps of 29 branches of haplogroups R1b and C, thus increasing the phylogenetic resolution by an order of magnitude compared to the two initial haplogroups. For haplogroup R1b, we identified a previously unstudied “eastern” branch, R1b-GG400, found in East Europeans and West Asians and forming a brother clade to the “western” branch R1b-L51 found in West Europeans. The ancient samples from the Yamnaya archaeological culture are located on this eastern branch, showing that the paternal descendants of the Yamnaya population – in contrast to the published autosomal findings - still live in the Pontic steppe and were not an important source of paternal lineages in present-day West Europeans. For haplogroup C-M217 - the predominant paternal component in Central Asians - we found signals of simultaneous expansion in two independent branches. Both expansion times and gene geographic maps of the expanded lineages indicated the emergence of the Mongol Empire as the likely trigger. We conclude that simply discovering new SNP is not enough, but in combination with screening for the branch-defining SNPs in large biobanks of indigenous populations, it allows comprehensive reconstruction of male population history. The study was supported by the Russian Science Foundation grant 14-14-00827 to OB.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] The point is 3 Neanderthal genome from Eurasia was published and is freely available.
Africans have SLC24A5 yet are not all light skinned therefore you cannot prove the Neanderthal were dark skinned.
Again, you have no quote reference. So you have mentioned this many times before and you cannot even go back to an old thread you made perhaps on ESR and show a quote.
Ish Gebor would not have this problem
It is because you and El Maestro are bluffing
Posts: 42930 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^ Not only were Neanderthals the first Europeans living in lower latitude, colder climate Europe longer than anatomically modern humans, but wasn't it discovered they had genes for red hair?? So how pray-tell were they 'black'?? If anything Neanderthals were the original whites!! LOLPosts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Your point about fast phenotypic changes only applies to limited craniometric variables, for example mean cephalic index within a relatively short time-frame (750 years) in Poland.
posted
Ignoring the two ignoramous. DJ the two tongued “afro-centric” and Lioness the provactuer. Neanderthal did not have red-hair FYI. That has been debunked.
---Anyways @ Cass. Agreed the astonishing rate of change will instill doubt in readers, but here may be an explanation….I was researching this to post to EL Maestro who seem to be able to provide credible discussion on the subject. But you can read it also...
Recent acceleration of human adaptive evolution
Discussion Our simple demographic model explains much of the recent pattern, but some aspects remain. Although the small number of high-frequency variants (between 78% and 100%) is much more consistent with the demographic model than a constant rate of change, it is still relatively low, even considering the rapid acceleration predicted by demography. Demographic change may be the major driver of new adaptive evolution, but the detailed pattern must involve gene functions and gene– environment interactions.
The high empirical number of recent adaptive variants would seem sufficient to refute this claim (9, 12). It is important to note that the peak ages of new selected variants in our data do not reflect the highest intensity of selection, but merely our ability to detect selection. Because of the recent acceleration, many more new adaptive mutations should exist than have yet been ascertained, occurring at a faster and faster rate***** during historic times****.
To the extent that new adaptive alleles continued to reflect demographic growth, the Neolithic and later periods would have experienced a rate of adaptive evolution _100 times higher than characterized most of human evolution. Cultural changes have reduced mortality rates, but variance in reproduction has continued to fuel genetic change (51).
Allele Ages. We used a modification of described methods (24–26) to estimate an allele age (coalescence time) for each selected cluster. We focused on the HapMap populations with the largest sample sizes, which were theYRI andCEUsamples. Similar results were obtained for the CHB and JPT populations (data not shown). Fig. 1 presents histograms of these age estimates. The YRI sample shows a modal (peak) age of _8,000 years ago, assuming 25-year generations; the CEU sample shows a peak age of _5,250 years ago, both values consistent with earlier work (9, 12). The difference in peak age likely explains why weaker tests have found stronger evidence of selection in European ancestry samples (27, 28), unlike the current study.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
I said many time modern West Africans are young and may be a bad exampla of ancient Africans. I posit that ancient Africans may be more like Australians.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Let them continue the delusion of Europeans are from the Steppes.
But quote: "The ancient samples from the Yamnaya archaeological culture are located on this eastern branch, showing that the paternal descendants of the Yamnaya population – in contrast to the published autosomal findings - still live in the Pontic steppe and were not an important source of paternal lineages in present-day West Europeans."
lol!!!!!!! I can take the horse to the river......
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
While I disagree with your other views, I agree the steppe/Yamna thing is nonsense. No coincidence its eastern European turds who push it since its in their ethnocentric interests.
Posts: 949 | From: England | Registered: Oct 2015
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posted
The Steppes hypothesis is not “pushed” by “eastern Europeans” it is pushed by Western Europeans who do NOT want to acknowledge the fact they are recent African migrants. They prefer the label “near east” but Neolithics did NOT enter Europe from the Near East. Neolithic entered Europe from North Western Africa and Tunisia/Sardinia. Recent aDNA from the Levant/Natufians proved that. Kefi has proven that Western Europeans mtDNA is dissimilar to the Near East but clearly related to Mahgrebians. Now it looks like R-V88 is showing up in aDNA in Western Europe. This aDNA is clearly related to the Fulani’s R-V88. This is getting better and better. Lol! But I knew this more than five years ago!! Lol!
There were many clues in extant Africans and Europeans which the geneticist ignored until the aDNA is now shattering their illusion.
quote:Originally posted by Cass/: While I disagree with your other views, I agree the steppe/Yamna thing is nonsense. No coincidence its eastern European turds who push it since its in their ethnocentric interests.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
As I proclaimed many years ago....genetics will make liars of historians....and anthropologists.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] The point is 3 Neanderthal genome from Eurasia was published and is freely available.
Africans have SLC24A5 yet are not all light skinned therefore you cannot prove the Neanderthal were dark skinned.
Again, you have no quote reference. So you have mentioned this many times before and you cannot even go back to an old thread you made perhaps on ESR and show a quote.
Ish Gebor would not have this problem
It is because you and El Maestro are bluffing
"…SLC24A5 yet are not all light skinned…"
Africans carry those mutations as fixed and unfixed.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
@Djehuti & Lioness I don't have access to my PCs, haven't for a week in a half or so...
But I really dislike the notion of mindless regurgitation anyways. You can't make the connection on your own?? Look at the age of all the AMH pigment related genes, most of the important ones were referenced in this thread. Regardless I was speaking in relation to Xyymans position, in a attempt to highlight modern European and Neanderthal differences.
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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posted
The first representatives of the genus Homo with proto-Neanderthal[58] traits are believed to have existed in Eurasia as early as 350,000–600,000 years ago with the first "true Neanderthals" appearing between 200,000 and 250,000 years ago.
Countries where their remains are known include most of Europe south of the line of glaciation, roughly along the 50th parallel north. This includes most of Western Europe, Central Europe, the Carpathians, and the Balkans, some sites in Ukraine and in western Russia, Central and Northern Asia up to the Altai Mountains, and Western Asia from the Levant up to the Indus River. The Bontnewydd Palaeolithic site at Denbighshire, North Wales is the most north-western site of Neanderthal remains and one of the oldest remains in Britain (230,000 years ago).
_________________________________________
So given these vast amounts of time in the Northern hemisphere in order to think that the Neanderthals were "mostly black" one would have to assume that skin color has no relation to UV levels
-even though there, although not exclusive, there is a broad pattern of it all over the Northern Hemisphere and in the East under other genes as well
Posts: 42930 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
I understand that certain things are hard to let go.... We see pattern, we make explanation and then it sticks.
...both East Asians and Europeans owe wide spread distribution to their levels of pigmentation to a recent event...
Does no one wonder why Inuits are darker than these guys?
Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.... It all depends on if folks around here consider Khoisan variation black.
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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posted
That is the fascinating thing. "ALL" Neanderthal and Denisovan tested and published carried Ancestral alleles for black skin. They were "black". Apparently La Brana and Loschbour and HG were also black.
El Maestro is only hedging his bet with "mostly". fear?! Nevertheless, no one can prove what I stating is incorrect because it is not. I can backup EVERYTHING I state.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: So given these vast amounts of time in the Northern hemisphere in order to think that the Neanderthals were "mostly black" one would have to assume that skin color has no relation to UV levels
-even though there, although not exclusive, there is a broad pattern of it all over the Northern Hemisphere and in the East under other genes as well
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: That is the fascinating thing. "ALL" Neanderthal and Denisovan tested and published carried Ancestral alleles for black skin.
Let us know when you have a quote reference
Posts: 42930 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Did lioness just chin check me with the vitamin D hypothesis?
You wouldn't need folks like Rees or Peter M Elias to tell us why explaining skin color variation with vitamin D/UV was a reeeeach if you objectively exposed yourself to more studies involving melanin. That explaination felt pseudoscientific to me when I was 16 reading it, just me though.
Event is a general term.... Rapid expansion of a population, bottleneck, admixture, drift, etc. etc.
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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quote:Crackpot black supremacist IDK your motivations nor do I care, so I'm not 100% sure if its your pattern of thinking or if its your agenda to reason so linearly. Get your head out of box my friend.
My point was to falsify Xyman's bizarre statement "Up to 4000BC most Europeans were black" when they weren't.
La Brana 1
This isn't black, but a lighter brown; these Mesolithic specimens like La Brana 1 are known to have had derived ASIP, IRF4 or KITLG involved in skin lightening. Like I said, La Brana 1 looks considerably lighter than an actual black person, like say, Robert Mugabe.
quote:The genotypic combination leading to a predicted phenotype of dark skin and non-brown eyes is unique and no longer present in contemporary European populations.
Figure 2 | Ancestral variants around the SLC45A2 (rs16891982, above) and SLC24A5 (rs1426654, below) pigmentation genes in the Mesolithic genome. The SNPs around the two diagnostic variants (red arrows) in these two genes were analysed. The resulting haplotype comprises neighbouring SNPs that are also absent in modern Europeans (CEU) (n5112) but present in Yorubans (YRI) (n5113). This pattern confirms that the La Bran ̃a 1 sample is older than the positive-selection event in these regions. Blue, ancestral; red, derived.
— Lalueza-Fox
In layman terms:
quote:Lalueza-Fox states: "However, the biggest surprise was to discover that this individual possessed African versions in the genes that determine the light pigmentation of the current Europeans, which indicates that he had dark skin, although we can not know the exact shade."
Quote(s): “The information about the origin and ethnic association of haplogroups on this website should not be read as hard facts, but, as is often the case in science, as a model in constant evolution based on the present knowledge and understanding (of the author). Whenever the advancement of genetics couldn't provide irrefutable answers, we have attempted to provide the most likely and logical hypothesis based on archeological, historical and linguistic evidence. This page is being updated regularly to keep up with recent studies giving additional insights or rectifying possibly erroneous theories. Feel free to add comments or share your opinion on the forum.
DNA Facts Nucleobases are the alphabet of DNA. There are four of them : adenine (A), thymine (T), guanine (G) and cytosine (C). They always go by pairs, A with T, and G with C. Such pairs are called "base pairs". The 46 chromosomes of human DNA are composed of a total of 3,000 million base pairs. The Y chromosome possess 60 million nucleobases, against 153 million for the X chromosome. Mitochondrial DNA is found outside the cell's nucleus, and therefore outside of the chromosomes. It consists only of 16,569 bases. A SNP (single nucleotide polymorphism) is a mutation in a single base pair. At present, only a few hundreds SNP's define all the human haplogroups for mtDNA or Y-DNA. “
“Firstly, the Y chromosome is a sequence of 60 million "characters" (nucleobases), against only 16,569 for mtDNA. The Y chromosome therefore offers a much greater resolution as mutations are more common, and indeed happen pretty much every generation. In contrast, mtDNA mutations happen much more infrequently. Since the time of the Mitochondrial Eve, approximately 200,000 years ago, modern humans have acquired in average 20 mtDNA mutations in each lineage - about one every ten thousand years. Even though the number of mutations has accelerated with the soaring of human population over the last 10,000 years, the dating of lineages based on mtDNA alone remains very approximate, and practically useless for historical times. By sequencing the full Y chromosome, it is theoretically possible to map the entire patrilineal genealogy of humanity (or any other species) within a few generations (in some cases even within one generation).”
“This included I*, pre-I1, I1, I2*, I2a*, I2a2, but the most widespread appears to have been I2a1, which was found in most parts of Europe. Northeast Europeans would have belonged mostly to haplogroup R1a. Other minor male lineages were certainly also present in parts of Europe, notably haplogroup A1a, C-V20, H2 (P96, formerly F3) and possibly even Q1a and R1b1* (P25).
“The maternal lineages of Mesolithic Europeans appears to have been predominantly U4 and U5, but also included several H subclades (H1, H3, H17), T, U2 and V.”
“There seem to have been several Palaeolithic and/or Mesolithic migrations from Northwest Africa to Iberia. The oldest might have brought West African haplogroup A1a to Western and Northern Europe during the Palaeolithic. A1a has been found in modern populations as far north as Ireland, Scotland, Scandinavia and Finland. The presence of African maternal lineages (L2, L3 and possibly L1b1) has been attested in Neolithic Iberia. Northwest Africans would also have brought U6 and possibly HV0/V lineages to Europe.
A small percentage of sub-Saharan African admixture has been identified in Late Mesolithic Swedes from the Pitted Ware culture (2800-2000 BCE), which would imply that A1a was already present in northern Europe at the time. Another Mesolithic sample from Loschbour in Luxembourg had dark hair and ****considerably**** darker skin than modern Europeans. “ “Agriculture first developed in the Levant, then spread to Anatolia, Greece, the Balkans, Italy, Central and Eastern Europe. These Neolithic farmers were confirmed to have belonged primarily to Y-DNA haplogroups G2a, but also included minorities of C1a2, E1b1b, H2 (formerly F3), J1, J2 and T1a lineages, who could have been assimilated in Anatolia before entering Europe. As they advanced across Europe Neolithic farmers also increasingly assimilated European lineages, notably E-M78 and I2a1 in Southeast Europe, I1 and I2a1 in Central Europe, I2a1 and I2a2a in Western Europe, and E-M78, I2a1 and I2a2a in Southwest Europe.”
“Hundreds of Neolithic samples from all over Europe (but especially Central Europe and Iberia) have been tested. The new lineages brought by these Near Eastern immigrants included mt-haplogroups HV, J1, J2, K1, K2, N*, N1, T1a, T2b, T2c, T2e, T2f, U3, W, X1, X2, and many subclades of H (including H2, H5, H7, H13 and H20). H4, H8 and H9 seem to have originated in the Near East as well, although ****no Neolithic sample has been identified in Europe ***yet.”
“Haplogroup V has never been found in prehistoric sites in Northeast Europe, nor in any Indo-European burial in the Eurasian steppe or Central Asia. It is nevertheless present in every part of Europe nowadays. Its frequency is higher than the European average in north-western Russia (> 5%), and peaks among the Sami (> 30%). Haplogroup V has also been found in most Uralic and Altaic populations across North Asia, and at trace frequencies as far as Korea and Japan. More intriguingly, ****haplogroup V is one of the four Eurasian haplogroups found among the Fulani people of Central Africa, who have high percentages of haplogroup R1b-V88.**** It is therefore likely that V was one of the original haplogroups of R1b people, and perhaps of the Paleolithic mammoth hunters from whom R1b is descended. Some V lineages could have been absorbed by the expansion of Ural-Altaic populations (Y-haplogroup N) in North Asia, which would explain its high frequency among the Finns and Sami. “ “Haplogroup A (Y-DNA)
A is the oldest of all Y-DNA haplogroups. It originated in sub-Saharan Africa over 140,000 years ago, and possibly as much as 340,000 years ago if we include haplogroup A00. Modern populations with the highest percentages of haplogroup A are the Khoisan (such as the Bushmen) and the southern Sudanese.
There are only rare and isolated cases of European men belonging to haplogroup A. Commercial tests have identified a few Scottish and Irish families (surnames Boyd, Logan and Taylor) all belonging to the same A1b1b2 (M13) subclade. This subclade is normally found in East Africa (Ethiopia, Sudan), but has also been found in Egypt, the Arabian peninsula, Palestine, Jordan, Turkey, Sicily, Sardinia and Algeria. It was certainly brought to Europe by Levantine people, be it during the Neolithic or later (Phoenicians, Jews, immigration within the Roman Empire).
Haplogroup A1a* (M31) has been found in Finland, Norway and eastern England. This subclade is normally found along the west coast of Africa (Guinea-Bissau, Cape Verde, Mali, Morocco) and could have come*** to Europe during the Paleolithic.*** Indeed a few percent of sub-Saharan admixture was found among ancient DNA samples from Mesolithic Scandinavia tested by Skoglund et al. (2012).“
Haplogroup H & V (mtDNA)
Haplogroup H is by far the most common all over Europe, amounting to about 40% of the European population. It is also found (though in lower frequencies) in North Africa, the Middle East, Central Asia, Northern Asia, as well as along the East coast of Africa as far as Madagascar.
Origins: mtDNA N => 75,000 years ago (arose in North-East Africa) R => 70,000 years ago (in South-West Asia) U => 60,000 years ago (in North-East Africa or South-West Asia)
yDNA R1b-L21 => 4,000 years ago (in Central or Eastern Europe) R1b-S28 => 3,500 years ago (around the Alps) R1b-S21 => 3,000 years ago (in Frisia or Central Europe
Berber mtDNA
The Berbers are the indigenous populationof north-west Africa. Although their Y-DNA is almost perfectly homogenous, belonging to haplogroup E-M81, Berber maternal lineages show a much greater diversity, as well as regional disparity. At least half (and up to 90% in some regions) of the Berbers belong to some Eurasian lineages, such as H, HV, R0, J, T, U, K, N1, N2, and X2, mostly of Middle or Near Eastern origin. 5 to 45% of the Berbers will have sub-Saharan mtDNA (L0, L1, L2, L3, L4, L5). There are only three native North African lineages, U6, X1 and M1, representing 0 to 35% of the people depending on the region.
Haplogroup U6 has been observed from the Iberia and the Canary Islands to Senegal in the West, and from Syria to Ethiopia and Kenya in the East. It is also found at low density in Europe, though mostly limited to Iberia. Approximately 10% of all North Africans belong to this lineage.
Haplogroup X (mtDNA)
Haplogroup X is a very old and scattered haplogroup found all over Eurasia, North Africa as well as among Native North Americans. It frequency rarely exceeds 5% of the population in any ethnic group, and is more often restricted to 1 or 2%. X1 is found almost exclusively in North Africa, while X2a is the only lineage present among Amerindians. X2d, X2e, X2n and X4 are found in Europe and Central Asia, and could therefore have been spread at least partially by the Proto-Indo-Europeans.
The strong presence of X2 around the Caucasus, progressively fading towards the Near East and Mediterranean , hints that it could be related to the spread of Y-DNA haplogroup G2a. R1b1b and G2a both having origins around the Caucasus it is unsurprising to find X2 alongside these two Y-DNA haplogroups
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