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Author Topic: Why are African Bell Beaker Clades called Indo-European Clades?
Clyde Winters
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Jose Manuel Monroy Kuhn, Mattias Jakobsson, Torsten Günther. (2017). Estimating genetic kin relationships in prehistoric populations. bioRxiv 100297; doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/100297


Abstract

Archaeogenomic research has proven to be a valuable tool to trace migrations of historic and prehistoric individuals and groups, whereas relationships within a group or burial site have not been investigated to a large extent. Knowing the genetic kinship of historic and prehistoric individuals would give important insights into social structures of ancient and historic cultures. Most archaeogenetic research concerning kinship has been restricted to uniparental markers, while studies using genome-wide information were mainly focused on comparisons between populations. Applications which infer the degree of relationship based on modern-day DNA information typically require diploid genotype data. Low concentration of endogenous DNA, fragmentation and other post-mortem damage to ancient DNA (aDNA) makes the application of such tools unfeasible for most archaeological samples. To infer family relationships for degraded samples, we developed the software READ (Relationship Estimation from Ancient DNA). We show that our heuristic approach can successfully infer up to second degree relationships with as little as 0.1x shotgun coverage per genome for pairs of individuals. We uncover previously unknown relationships among prehistoric individuals by applying READ to published aDNA data from several human remains excavated from different cultural contexts. In particular, we find a group of five closely related males from the same Corded Ware culture site in modern-day Germany, suggesting patrilocality, which highlights the possibility to uncover social structures of ancient populations by applying READ to genome-wide aDNA data.
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This paper is very interesting. The authors mention RISE564 (male skeleton) R1b1a2a1 (L51) from Germany, this is a sub-clade of R-V88, defined by the marker M18 (R1b1a2a ). Another skeleton from Germany: Bell Beaker RISE563 (male) R1b1a2a1a2b (R-U152-FGC22501 ), is considered a relative of RISE563.

The question is why are researchers calling M18 subclades R-L51 and R-U152, Indo-European R-M269 ( R1b1a1a2 ) subclades instead of V88 subclades?

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C. A. Winters

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Clyde Winters
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Kivisild, T. (2017). The study of human Y chromosome variation through ancient DNA. Human Genetics, 136(5), 529–546. http://doi.org/10.1007/s00439-017-1773-z
Kivisild (2017) wrote: “ Interestingly, the earliest offshoot of extant haplogroup R1b-M343 variation, the V88 sub-clade, which is currently most common in Fulani speaking populations in Africa (Cruciani et al. 2010) has distant relatives in Early Neolithic samples from across wide geographic area from Iberia, Germany to Samara (Fig. 7). “

Below are Cruciani 2010, V88 clades
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Kivisild (2017) said he got the information on the ancient DNA from Haak (2015)about the “distant relatives of V88” . The only ancient DNA samples related to Cruciani et al (2010) are
  • I0124 0.96 R1b1 Samara_HG
    I0410 3.29 R1b1 Spain_EN
    I0439 0.33 R1b1a Yamnaya
As you can see from the above the Samara and Spain individuals carried R1b1. The Yamnaya individual carried V88*.

Given the presence of these African haplogroups it is hard to understand why researchers continue to claim the Yamnaya and Corded Ware people were Indo-European speakers.

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C. A. Winters

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Clyde Winters
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Fu, Q., Posth, C., Hajdinjak, M., Petr, M., Mallick, S., Fernandes, D., … Reich, D. (2016). The genetic history of Ice Age Europe. Nature, 534(7606), 200–205. http://doi.org/10.1038/nature17993
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Fu et al (2016) gives a fine discussion of the genetic history of Europe. It is interesting to note that the authors claim that the oldest R1b-M343 lineages, is 14 KYA Villabruna Man from Italy. The Villabruna man carried R1b1.

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C. A. Winters

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Clyde Winters
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In many papers on ancient European genomics, the researchers claim that R1b1* is associated with R-M269. But in reality many Africans carry R1b1* as pointed out by Gemma Berniell-Lee et al (2009) and therefore this haplogroup, now associated with so-called Indo-Europeans, is an African clade.

Gemma Berniell-Lee Francesc Calafell Elena Bosch Evelyne Heyer Lucas Sica Patrick Mouguiama-Daouda Lolke van der Veen Jean-Marie Hombert Lluis Quintana-Murci David Comas
Mol Biol Evol (2009) 26 (7): 1581-1589.
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Also why do researchers make the V88 subclade R1b1b1 (M73) one of the clades associated with R-M269?

Why are they hiding the fact that the first European farmers and hunter-gatherers carrying R1b, were Africans?

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C. A. Winters

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Clyde Winters
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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

Below are Cruciani 2010, V88 clades

Below are the V88 clades from Iain Mathieson et al 2017

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post deleted

You have a chart extracted from Mathieson and you have added a heading "African V88 subclades in Eurasia"
There is no such heading and haplogroup V88 is not even mentioned in the article.
Your presentation could easily make someone think that words you have inserted appeared in the published chart when they did not

That will not be allowed

You may post an image of these tables unaltered only

and then you can make your own commentary

[ 01. July 2017, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: the lioness, ]

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C. A. Winters

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Clyde Winters
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
[qb] Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

Below are Cruciani 2010, V88 clades

Below are the V88 clades from Iain Mathieson et al 2017

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post deleted

You have a chart extracted from Mathieson and you have added a heading "African V88 subclades in Eurasia"
There is no such heading and haplogroup V88 is not even mentioned in the article.
Your presentation could easily make someone think that words you have inserted appeared in the published chart when they did not

That will not be allowed

You may post an image of these tables unaltered only

and then you can make your own commentary in a clearly separate manner

_________________________

Additionally if you insult a moderator the post will be deleted entirely.
I have the right to delete posts and I will when you add your own words to the work of other researchers.

Your method of citation is completely unprofessional and you use it to make it seems like other researchers are saying what you are saying. It's trickery and won't be tolerated

You need to be quoting them verbatim and making your own commentary separate. That is completely reasonable and proper

[ 01. July 2017, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: the lioness, ]

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C. A. Winters

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
[qb] Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

Below are Cruciani 2010, V88 clades

Below are the V88 clades from Iain Mathieson et al 2017

___________________________________________


post deleted

You have a chart extracted from Mathieson and you have added a heading "African V88 subclades in Eurasia"
There is no such heading and haplogroup V88 is not even mentioned in the article.
Your presentation could easily make someone think that words you have inserted appeared in the published chart when they did not

That will not be allowed

You may post an image of these tables unaltered only

and then you can make your own commentary in a clearly separate manner

_________________________

Additionally if you insult a moderator the post will be deleted entirely.
I have the right to delete posts and I will when you add your own words to the work of other researchers.

Your method of citation is completely unprofessional and you use it to make it seems like other researchers are saying what you are saying. It's trickery and won't be tolerated

You need to be quoting them verbatim and making your own commentary separate. That is completely reasonable and proper

This is bs. You can't read. I illustrated that Haak et al (2015), used the same data. Data in the public domain can be used by any researcher. Due to your racism you can't handle the truth, that the ancient Europeans were not Indo-Europeans, they were Sub-Saharan Africans.

It is obvious you have never written or published a research paper. It also shows that you have never taken a graduate research course. if you have, and you used this reasoning to delete my post, it proves you are a white supremacist.

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C. A. Winters

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
This is bs. You can't read. I illustrated that Haak et al (2015), used the same data.

Stop the endless trickery and misrepresentation of other researchers work
Haak et al is another article which makes no mention of V88

Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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