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Author Topic: Psuedo historical claims about Sesostris warring with Goths and other s
the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


there is documentation that Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via sesotris


.

quote:
originally posted by the lioness
psuedo-historical claims with no primary source




.
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


Sesostris was called emperor of the world
"you (senwosret I)have subdue what the sun encircles" story of sinhue

Goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians had no written history during the reign of sesostris however they do have ancient oral tradition that was passed down that discusses their war with sesostris

Example
The War of Vesosis (sesostris) the egyptian and Tanausis the goth



Saying that Sesostris was called emperor of the world is very weak as evidence that he went to war with Europeans


You say that Goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians had no written history yet say there is documentation that Egypt had many wars with Europeans.

Where is this documentation? Obviously it is not primary source "documentation" (if we really want to call it documentation)

Where is the Egyptian record?

Egyptologists say that evidence that Egypt had many wars with Europeans is very weak despite the semi fictional writing of 6th-century Roman bureaucrat Jordanes talking about a 19th century BC king Sesostris over a thousand years earlier

quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


Sesostris was called emperor of the world
"you (senwosret I)have subdue what the sun encircles" story of sinhue

Goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians had no written history during the reign of sesostris however they do have ancient oral tradition that was passed down that discusses their war with sesostris


So you have NO primary source, no source contemporary with Sesostris, but legend to you is fact.

And where is there even documentation of an oral tradition making these claims, anything outside of Jordanes ?

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the questioner
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


there is documentation that Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via sesotris


.

quote:
originally posted by the lioness
psuedo-historical claims with no primary source




.
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


Sesostris was called emperor of the world
"you (senwosret I)have subdue what the sun encircles" story of sinhue

Goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians had no written history during the reign of sesostris however they do have ancient oral tradition that was passed down that discusses their war with sesostris

Example
The War of Vesosis (sesostris) the egyptian and Tanausis the goth



Saying that Sesostris was called emperor of the world is very weak as evidence that he went to war with Europeans


You say that Goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians had no written history yet say there is documentation that Egypt had many wars with Europeans.

Where is this documentation? Obviously it is not primary source "documentation" (if we really want to call it documentation)

Where is the Egyptian record?

Egyptologists say that evidence that Egypt had many wars with Europeans is very weak despite the semi fictional writing of 6th-century Roman bureaucrat Jordanes talking about a 19th century BC king Sesostris over a thousand years earlier

quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


Sesostris was called emperor of the world
"you (senwosret I)have subdue what the sun encircles" story of sinhue

Goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians had no written history during the reign of sesostris however they do have ancient oral tradition that was passed down that discusses their war with sesostris


So you have NO primary source, no source contemporary with Sesostris, but legend to you is fact.

And where is there even documentation of an oral tradition making these claims, anything outside of Jordanes ?

provide me with an Ancient Egyptian source from the time of Sesotris that states that the story of Sinhue is legendary/psuedo

Sesostris was called emperor of the world
"you (senwosret I)have subdue what the sun encircles" story of Sinhue

Europe is under the sun thus making him ruler or conqueror of Europe

the Ancient Greeks also support this story

to object to these claims you need primary sources that dismiss these claims

--------------------
Questions expose liars

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

provide me with an Ancient Egyptian source from the time of Sesotris that states that the story of Sinhue is legendary/psuedo

Sesostris was called emperor of the world
"you (senwosret I)have subdue what the sun encircles" story of Sinhue

Europe is under the sun thus making him ruler or conqueror of Europe

the Ancient Greeks also support this story

to object to these claims you need primary sources that dismiss these claims [/QB]

No one would not have to provide an Ancient Egyptian source from the time of Sesotris that states that the story of Sinhue is legendary/psuedo because the story of Sinhue does not prove " that Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via Sesotris" as you claim

1) it is a story

2) it pertains to Retjenu (Canaan and Syria) not Europe!

3) assuming the translation "emperor of the world" is correct that does not mean Sesotris was literally emperor of the whole world, stop being ridiculous

4) there is no evidence that Egyptians even knew about many parts of the world even including many parts of Africa. Also the Greeks didn't know many places and their world maps weren't accurate

That means you cannot assume
" that Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via sesotris"

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the questioner
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

provide me with an Ancient Egyptian source from the time of Sesotris that states that the story of Sinhue is legendary/psuedo

Sesostris was called emperor of the world
"you (senwosret I)have subdue what the sun encircles" story of Sinhue

Europe is under the sun thus making him ruler or conqueror of Europe

the Ancient Greeks also support this story

to object to these claims you need primary sources that dismiss these claims

No one would not have to provide an Ancient Egyptian source from the time of Sesotris that states that the story of Sinhue is legendary/psuedo because the story of Sinhue does not prove " that Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via Sesotris" as you claim

1) it is a story

2) it pertains to Retjenu (Canaan and Syria) not Europe!

3) assuming the translation "emperor of the world" is correct that does not mean Sesotris was literally emperor of the whole world, stop being ridiculous

4) there is no evidence that Egyptians even knew about many parts of the world even including many parts of Africa. Also the Greeks didn't know many places and their world maps weren't accurate

That means you cannot assume
" that Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via sesotris" [/QB]

"2) it pertains to Retjenu (Canaan and Syria) not Europe!"

Canaan and Syria? where is your primary source?

can you even verify that ^^^

what about the tamahu who are also mentioned in the story? i noticed you left them out

--------------------
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the lioness,
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this is your claim:

" that Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via Sesotris"

you have not proven that the Egyptians made war with any of those groups or were even in those regions which are all further away than the neighboring Syria/Israel region


quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


what about the tamahu who are also mentioned in the story? i noticed you left them out

Why have you listed "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians "
and presented no evidence that these groups are tamahu or source on who the tamahu were?

More importantly why are you asking me about a story rather than history?

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the questioner
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
this is your claim:

" that Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via Sesotris"

you have not proven that the Egyptians made war with any of those groups or were even in those regions which are all further away than the neighboring Syria/Israel region


quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


what about the tamahu who are also mentioned in the story? i noticed you left them out

Why have you listed "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians "
and presented no evidence that these groups are tamahu or source on who the tamahu were?

More importantly why are you asking me about a story rather than history?

1) prove that Retjenu is canaan and syria

im waiting

2) the story of sinhue is based off of real events
and in that story sensuret I ruled the world which europe is a part of

3)the tamahu were mentioned in the story of sinhue

4) the identity of the tamahu cannot not be verified however they were a white skinned people which matches the appearance of Europeans (thus making them Europeans by observation)

(Champollion believed the tamahu were Europeans)

--------------------
Questions expose liars

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


" Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via Sesotris"



quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

the story of sinhue is based off of real events
and in that story sensuret I ruled the world which europe is a part of


So according to you sensuret I had wars with China and Japan
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the questioner
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


" Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via Sesotris"



quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

the story of sinhue is based off of real events
and in that story sensuret I ruled the world which europe is a part of


So according to you sensuret I had wars with China and Japan

if there is any traditions by china and japan that states they warred with Egypt than yes

the Ancient Greeks document Sesotris presence in Europe
so
please make a better comparison

where is your evidence that Retjenu is Syria and Canaan?

--------------------
Questions expose liars

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb]
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


" Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via Sesotris"



quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

the story of sinhue is based off of real events
and in that story sensuret I ruled the world which europe is a part of


So according to you sensuret I had wars with China and Japan

if there is any traditions by china and japan that states they warred with Egypt than yes



So you are retracting the argument that because in the story sensuret I ruled the world does not mean he necessarily ruled the world?


quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


" Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via Sesotris"



^^ see this? It's an extremely weak argument to claim the Egyptian had wars with all of these groups. It's better to admit that then try to cling to it
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the questioner
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb]
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


" Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via Sesotris"



quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

the story of sinhue is based off of real events
and in that story sensuret I ruled the world which europe is a part of


So according to you sensuret I had wars with China and Japan

if there is any traditions by china and japan that states they warred with Egypt than yes



So you are retracting the argument that because in the story sensuret I ruled the world does not mean he necessarily ruled the world?


quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


" Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via Sesotris"



^^ see this? It's an extremely weak argument to claim the Egyptian had wars with all of these groups. It's better to admit that then try to cling to it

" Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via Sesotris"
^^^ all of the above groups say they warred with egypt

im not retracting anything because i never denied that he did not rule china or japan

you will have to show evidence from the Chinese themselves or anyone who lives near china that supports sensuret's rule

--------------------
Questions expose liars

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the questioner
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"sesostris, for 48 years: he is said to have been 4 cubits 3 palms 2 fingers' breath in stature. in nine years he subdue the whole of asia and europe as far as thrace, every where erecting memorials of his conquest of the tribes" Eusebius quotes manetho the egyptian

--------------------
Questions expose liars

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb]
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


" Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via Sesotris"



quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

the story of sinhue is based off of real events
and in that story sensuret I ruled the world which europe is a part of


So according to you sensuret I had wars with China and Japan

if there is any traditions by china and japan that states they warred with Egypt than yes



So you are retracting the argument that because in the story sensuret I ruled the world does not mean he necessarily ruled the world?


quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


" Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the



^^ see this? It's an extremely weak argument to claim the Egyptian had wars with all of these groups. It's better to admit that then try to cling to it

" Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via Sesotris"
^^^ all of the above groups say they warred with egypt

im not retracting anything because i never denied that he did not rule china or japan

you will have to show evidence from the Chinese themselves or anyone who lives near china that supports sensuret's rule

You said Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via Sesotris" and one of the arguments you tried to use was that in the story sensuret I ruled the world. But now you are saying in regard to China and Japan that that statement that Sesotris ruled the world does not prove he ruled China and Japan even though China and Japan are part of the world.
Now you are saying that to prove China and Japan were ruled by
Sesotris they would have to have said so.

So I am asking you if you are retratcting the argument "Europe is under the sun thus making him ruler or conqueror of Europe"
because China and Japan are also under the sun.


Your second argument is that goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians said that they were ruled by Sesotris
YET HAVE SHOWN NO SOURCES FOR THIS

you even said these groups "had no written history"

"oral tradition" is not reliable. Any person of a given group can claim something is historical and then claim without record that they got if from their father.
Thracians and Scythians are extinct cultures so there is not even an oral culture.
And you don't even have a source even claiming oral tradition.


quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
"sesostris, for 48 years: he is said to have been 4 cubits 3 palms 2 fingers' breath in stature. in nine years he subdue the whole of asia and europe as far as thrace, every where erecting memorials of his conquest of the tribes" Eusebius quotes manetho the egyptian

and you believe that 4th c AD nonsense?
WHERE ARE THE MEMORIALS OF SESOSTRIS CONQUERING THE WORLD ?

Again you have no evidence that any of the world's people said they were under the rule of sesostris
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
you will have to show evidence from the Chinese themselves or anyone who lives near china that supports sensuret's rule

^ Likewise "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians
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the questioner
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb]
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


" Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via Sesotris"



quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

the story of sinhue is based off of real events
and in that story sensuret I ruled the world which europe is a part of


So according to you sensuret I had wars with China and Japan

if there is any traditions by china and japan that states they warred with Egypt than yes



So you are retracting the argument that because in the story sensuret I ruled the world does not mean he necessarily ruled the world?


quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


" Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via Sesotris"



^^ see this? It's an extremely weak argument to claim the Egyptian had wars with all of these groups. It's better to admit that then try to cling to it

" Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via Sesotris"
^^^ all of the above groups say they warred with egypt

im not retracting anything because i never denied that he did not rule china or japan

you will have to show evidence from the Chinese themselves or anyone who lives near china that supports sensuret's rule

You said Egypt had many wars with Europeans such as the "goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians via Sesotris" and one of the arguments you tried to use was that in the story sensuret I ruled the world. But now you are saying in regard to China and Japan that that statement that Sesotris ruled the world does not prove he ruled China and Japan even though China and Japan are part of the world.
Now you are saying that to prove China and Japan were ruled by
Sesotris they would have to have said so.

So I am asking you if you are retratcting the argument "Europe is under the sun thus making him ruler or conqueror of Europe"
because China and Japan are also under the sun.


Your second argument is that goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians said that they were ruled by Sesotris
YET HAVE SHOWN NO SOURCES FOR THIS

you even said these groups "had no written history"

"oral tradition" is not reliable. Any person of a given group can claim something is historical and then claim without record that they got if from their father.
Thracians and Scythians are extinct cultures so there is not even an oral culture.
And you don't even have a source even claiming oral tradition.


quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
"sesostris, for 48 years: he is said to have been 4 cubits 3 palms 2 fingers' breath in stature. in nine years he subdue the whole of asia and europe as far as thrace, every where erecting memorials of his conquest of the tribes" Eusebius quotes manetho the egyptian

and you believe that nonsense?
WHERE ARE THE MEMORIALS OF SESOSTRIS CONQUERING THE WORLD ?

Again

i never denied that he did not rule china or japan
it can only be verified if china and japan or if someone near china and japan tells a story of Egypt leading an army into their lands

Jordanes (for example) is of Gothic descent and he documents goths warring with sesotris the Egyptian based off of oral history

Herodotus documents the Egyptians leading an army into the Caucasus mountains and establishing the colchians under sesostris

--------------------
Questions expose liars

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the lioness,
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The only source that claims Jordanes was of gothic descent is Jordanes. He wrote in 6th century AD about an event supposedly occurring about 2500 year earlier.
That cannot be considered reliable and it is far before Goths are even recognized historically


What Herodotus said is not enough to verify historical fact and in his writings are history mixed with legend, myth and folklore


Herodotus was of the 5th century BC and Sensuret of 19th c BC, that if far from primary source

quote:
Originally posted by the questioner
you will have to show evidence from the Chinese themselves or anyone who lives near china that supports sensuret's rule

Likewise Herodotus is not a Thracian or Scythians or Egyptian
One cannot even account for Thracian or Scythian culture existing at the same time as Sensuret

In summary you have no primary record or archaeological evidence even close to 12th dynasty period that shows Egyptians in Europe or the Steppe, ruling over or warring with

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the questioner
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
The only source that claims Jordanes was of gothic descent is Jordanes. He wrote in 6th century AD about an event supposedly occurring about 2500 year earlier.
That cannot be considered reliable and it is far before Goths are even recognized historically


What Herodotus said is not enough to verify historical fact and in his writings are history mixed with legend, myth and folklore


Herodotus was of the 5th century BC and Sensuret of 19th c BC, that if far from primary source

quote:
Originally posted by the questioner
you will have to show evidence from the Chinese themselves or anyone who lives near china that supports sensuret's rule

Likewise Herodotus is not a Thracian or Scythians or Egyptian
One cannot even account for Thracian or Scythian culture existing at the same time as Sensuret

In summary you have no primary record or archaeological evidence even close to 12th dynasty period that shows Egyptians in Europe or the Steppe, ruling over or warring with

you have no primary source dismissing these claims

jordanes is of Gothic descent during the time the goths wrote their own history (jordanes documents oral history which you continue to ignore)

the story of sinuhe was written during the 12th dynasty
(this is the primary source you continue to ignore)

Herodotus supports the claims of jordanes, sinuhe, and manetho which you continue to ignore

Diodorus siculus and Strabo also makes a similar claim

you have no reasonable explanation to dismiss the claims as fable

you dismiss these ancient writers claims but regurgitate 19th, 20th, and 21st century historians claims that Egyptians did not go to Europe which is a contradiction on your part

bottom line you choose what to believe rather than using real investigation

Thracian, Scythians, and Egyptian all three of these names are Greek... so please don't take them literally

--------------------
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the lioness,
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A primary source provides direct or firsthand evidence about an event, object, person, or work of art.

You have no primary source that specifies Goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians were ruled by the Egyptians, correct ?

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
A primary source provides direct or firsthand evidence about an event, object, person, or work of art.

You have no primary source that specifies Goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians were ruled by the Egyptians, correct ?

Goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians?
^^^
these names were never used during ancient Egyptian times

the above people are apart of the world which the sun encircles which Senwosret I claims to have ruled

i have primary source that Senwosret I ruled the world and that he had contact with Europe

put two and two together

--------------------
Questions expose liars

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
A primary source provides direct or firsthand evidence about an event, object, person, or work of art.

You have no primary source that specifies Goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians were ruled by the Egyptians, correct ?

Goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians?
^^^
these names were never used during ancient Egyptian times


these names were not used by anybody in 19th century BC so it is misleading for you to use them

quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

the above people are apart of the world which the sun encircles which Senwosret I claims to have ruled

i have primary source that Senwosret I ruled the world and that he had contact with Europe

put two and two together

You go on and on with this nonsense.
To argue that Senwosret ruled the world because a story says
"you have subdued all that the sun encircles"
That is silliness far below a scholarly standard to prove that Egypt ruled the world in the 12th dynasty

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
A primary source provides direct or firsthand evidence about an event, object, person, or work of art.

You have no primary source that specifies Goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians were ruled by the Egyptians, correct ?

Goths, Thracians, Spaniards, and Scythians?
^^^
these names were never used during ancient Egyptian times


these names were not used by anybody in 19th century BC so it is misleading for you to use them

quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

the above people are apart of the world which the sun encircles which Senwosret I claims to have ruled

i have primary source that Senwosret I ruled the world and that he had contact with Europe

put two and two together

You go on and on with this nonsense.
To argue that Senwosret ruled the world because a story says
"you have subdued all that the sun encircles"
That is silliness far below a scholarly standard to prove that Egypt ruled the world in the 12th dynasty

it is scholarly silliness to dismiss something without primary sources

you must remember that you never lived during that time period
so to tell senwosret I or sinuhe that they are liars is just plain arrogant

next subject
Senwosret I also claims to have warred with the Tamahu and Retjenu. How do you know that none of these people are Europeans?

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The silliness if for you to assume the poetic use of words in this story
"you have subdued all that the sun encircles" means that Senusret
ruled the whole world.

How do you know that none of these people are Europeans?


quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

How do you know that none of these people are Europeans?


I don't have know that, you said that the Egyptians were in Europe but this story is far from being enough evidence to prove that
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
The silliness if for you to assume the poetic use of words in this story
"you have subdued all that the sun encircles" means that Senusret
ruled the whole world.

How do you know that none of these people are Europeans?


quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

How do you know that none of these people are Europeans?


I don't have know that, you said that the Egyptians were in Europe but this story is far from being enough evidence to prove that
how do you know it is poetic and not literal?

This story is very close to proving what the ancient Europeans claimed many years later for how did they know senwosret was a great conqueror?

Unless you can prove retjenu or the tamahu are not Europeans and senwosret ruling the world is falsity. You cannot say he did not advance as far as Europe.

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The burden of proof is on you.

If somebody says the Egyptians landed a spaceship on the moon and I say the Egyptians did not a land spaceship on the moon

and then they say to me "prove the Egyptians didn't land a spaceship on the moon"

So if I fail to do that that means the Egyptians landed a spaceship on the moon? No the burden of proof is with the person who makes the claim.

You said that that Senusret I ruled the world

Now why aren't there some Egyptologists who even raise that as a possibility?
Because there is little if no evidence of it.


quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


i have primary source that Senwosret I ruled the world

because somebody says somebody ruled the world that is not poof they ruled the world that is not proof of them ruling the world. It's proof of them saying it. There are other thing that would corroborate it like artifacts or other writing of the same time period.

Was Sinue lying ? Maybe he was lying. Maybe he was telling the truth. Maybe he didn't have anything close to knowledge of how big the world is.
Maybe Sinue didn't even exist.


You have evidence of a person who is not even proven to exist saying about another person in a version of transliteration (that you assume is accurate)
"you have subdued what the sun encircles"

that is not evidence of someone ruling the world that is a person saying that someone else had subdued what the sun encircles

and you assume that means ruling the world
and you assume the Egyptians knew about the whole world or even all of Africa at that time


You make a ton of assumptions that have a paper thin basis

quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


i have primary source that Senwosret I ruled the world

yes show us the documentation on how the Egyptians ruled japan, Russia and North America

quote:
Originally posted by a questioner type:

show us the documentation that the Egyptians didn't rule japan, Russia and North America

[Roll Eyes]
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
The burden of proof is on you.

If somebody says the Egyptians landed a spaceship on the moon and I say the Egyptians did not a land spaceship on the moon

and then they say to me "prove the Egyptians didn't land a spaceship on the moon"

So if I fail to do that that means the Egyptians landed a spaceship on the moon? No the burden of proof is with the person who makes the claim.

You said that that Senusret I ruled the world

Now why aren't there some Egyptologists who even raise that as a possibility?
Because there is little if no evidence of it.


quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


i have primary source that Senwosret I ruled the world

because somebody says somebody ruled the world that is not poof they ruled the world that is not proof of them ruling the world. It's proof of them saying it. There are other thing that would corroborate it like artifacts or other writing of the same time period.

Was Sinue lying ? Maybe he was lying. Maybe he was telling the truth. Maybe he didn't have anything close to knowledge of how big the world is.
Maybe Sinue didn't even exist.


You have evidence of a person who is not even proven to exist saying about another person in a version of transliteration (that you assume is accurate)
"you have subdued what the sun encircles"

that is not evidence of someone ruling the world that is a person saying that someone else had subdued what the sun encircles

and you assume that means ruling the world
and you assume the Egyptians knew about the whole world or even all of Africa at that time


You make a ton of assumptions that have a paper thin basis

quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


i have primary source that Senwosret I ruled the world

yes show us the documentation on how the Egyptians ruled japan, Russia and North America

quote:
Originally posted by a questioner type:

show us the documentation that the Egyptians didn't rule japan, Russia and North America

[Roll Eyes]

1) The person who would make the claim that the Egyptians went to the moon will have to show some ancient documentation that states that the Egyptians went to outer space

2) sinuhe was a contemporary of senwosret and he said that his king ruled the world or what the sun encircles

3) However rather Sinuhe existed or not is irrelevant because we both know Senwosret I existed

4) what your insinuating is equivalent to saying New York city doesn't exist because spider man doesn't exist

5) All things aside, can you show me one archaeologist or egyptologist who specifically went looking for evidence of sesostris in Europe?(absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence)

6) "and you assume the Egyptians knew about the whole world or even all of Africa at that time"

tell me how did the Egyptians know about the pygmies if they did not know about Africa?

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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


tell me how did the Egyptians know about the pygmies if they did not know about Africa? [/QB]

your question is irrational. If the Egyptians knew about pygmies why would that mean they explored or knew about all the other parts of Africa?
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


tell me how did the Egyptians know about the pygmies if they did not know about Africa?

your question is irrational. If the Egyptians knew about pygmies why would that mean they explored or knew about all the other parts of Africa? [/QB]
Pygmies exist outside of Egypt and live in other parts of Africa

The extent of how much Egypt knew about the rest of Africa is vague because of the destruction of much of Egypt's records however the ancient Egyptians knew about gorillas and rhinos

Herodotus documents how the pharaoh sent an expedition of explorers on ships manned by Phoenicians that circumnavigated Africa

Egyptians sent expeditions into the land of punt and the land of yam, two far distant regions in Sub-Saharan Africa

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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


The extent of how much Egypt knew about the rest of Africa is vague

So imagine how much more vague it would be for other continents under the sun

You need a methodology, a requirement of several types of evidence before presenting something as fact rather than theory

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:


The extent of how much Egypt knew about the rest of Africa is vague

So imagine how much more vague it would be for other continents under the sun

You need a methodology, a requirement of several types of evidence before presenting something as fact rather than theory

it is only vague to us not to the ancient Egyptians(we don't know how much of each continent Egypt knows because most of the records were destroyed)

it is a fact that senwosret I claimed to have ruled all that the sun encircled and it is a fact that the ancients also say sesostris warred with Europe and Asia

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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

we don't know how much of each continent Egypt knows because most of the records were destroyed

So from the primary Egyptian sources we don't know if the Egyptians knew about the region now known as Sweden where the Goths came from
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
it is a fact that senwosret I claimed to have ruled all that the sun encircled

It not a fact that Senusret said that, rather than a person real or fictional named Sinue and it is not clear exactly what it means or to what extent the Egyptians knew


And by the way it's not certain exactly which king Sesostris is

And there are steles of Senusret that record his military campaigns against Nubia and Canaan

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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:

we don't know how much of each continent Egypt knows because most of the records were destroyed

So from the primary Egyptian sources we don't know if the Egyptians knew about the region now known as Sweden where the Goths came from
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
it is a fact that senwosret I claimed to have ruled all that the sun encircled

It not a fact that Senusret said that, rather than a person real or fictional named Sinue and it is not clear exactly what it means or to what extent the Egyptians knew


And by the way it's not certain exactly which king Sesostris is

And there are steles of Senusret that record his military campaigns against Nubia and Canaan

"So from the primary Egyptian sources we don't know if the Egyptians knew about the region now known as Sweden where the Goths came from"

how do you know that the goths were in sweden during the time of sesostris? tribes travel
(that is just as silly as saying Rome had to be in Phoenicia to war with Carthage)

"It not a fact that Senusret said that, rather than a person real or fictional named Sinue and it is not clear exactly what it means or to what extent the Egyptians knew"

it is pretty clear when it say "subdue all that the sun encircles"
"He advanced me to lord of the two parts, a child yet wearing swaddling clothes. he destined me to rule the people, made me to be before mankind. he fashioned me to be a palace dweller, an offspring not yet issued from the thighs. mine is the land, its length and breadth, i was nursed to be a conqueror. mine is the land, i am its lord, my power reaches heaven's height. i excel by acting for my maker, pleasing the god for with what he gave. i am his son and protector, he gave me to conquer what he conquered" Temple of Atum at Heliopolis senwosret I

"And by the way it's not certain exactly which king Sesostris is"
it is very certain by manetho
both Sesostris and Senwosret are 12th dynasty pharaohs

"And there are steles of Senusret that record his military campaigns against Nubia and Canaan"

Sesotris is recorded to have warred with Ethiopia so of course there is a stele of him warring with "Nubia"

but how do we know that it is canaan and not Asia or Europe? How do we know that these two steles are the only ones he erected?

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