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Author Topic: Gender distinction in African languages
Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
@Clyde Winters

what makes it Asiatic is the gender distinction between male and female within the language.

African languages do not distinguish between male and female unless they had contact with Asiatics.

Can you give examples? (In a new thread).


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C. A. Winters

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Clyde Winters
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Gender is found in many African languages that are not associated with Asian languages. The Egyptian languages was spokan thousands of years before they came in contact with Asian languages. The plural feminine in Egyptian is -iptn/iptf and Wolof: batane/batafe. The feminine singular in Egyptian is twy and t3, this corresponds to -twy and ta in Wolof.

The Egyptian relative affirmative formative is -ntt, this corresponds to Wolof affirmative na tya.

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C. A. Winters

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Clyde Winters
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Gender system are common in the Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan.

The Egyptian feminine is -t. The Old Kingdom feminine -t, is found in several African languages:

Galla(Oromo) lafa/lafa-ti 'the earth'

Sidamo -tta or tsa

Ronga, -ati

Zulu, -azi

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C. A. Winters

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Clyde Winters
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Gender system are common in the Niger-Congo and Khoisan languages.

Some of the Niger-Congo languages that have gender markers include: Ijo,Zande, Zulu and Wolof. There are different personal pronouns for masculine and feminine humans in these languages. The Mande languages also illustrate sex-distinctions.


In the Khoisan languages: Sandawe, Kwali and Aodga we find masculine and feminine distinctions for lexical items.

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C. A. Winters

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capra
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Sex-gender is not exclusive to Afro-Asiatic in Africa, but Clyde is full of shit as usual.

Sidamo and Oromo are Afro-Asiatic languages; the markers Clyde is claiming may actually exist and be cognate with Egyptian, though I certainly wouldn't trust him to report anything accurately.

Zulu has a suffix -kazi which can be added to words for animals or people to make them female, e.g. invu "sheep", invukazi "ewe". This is from a common Bantu root meaning "woman", PB *kádí. It is not a feminine grammatical marker and has no demonstrable connection to Egyptian.

I don't know about Ronga, but Clyde is probably lying.

Neither Wolof nor Zulu have sex-specific personal pronouns. Ijo, Zande, and a handful of other Niger-Congo (if that is a thing) languages do.

This is not the same thing as the sex-based gender in Egyptian, Semitic, and many other Afro-Asiatic languages. It is like the difference between English and French: in English we distinguish 'he' and 'she' for people, but not for objects, and there are no distinct masculine and feminine forms for articles, adjectives, etc. In French, however, all nouns have a gender - an eye is 'he' and a tongue is 'she': le oeil, la langue. In Middle Egyptian jrt "eye" is feminine, ns "tongue" is masculine. Other words have to agree with the gender of the noun.

Many so-called 'Khoisan' languages really do have masculine and feminine grammatical gender, e.g. Hadza and Khoekhoe. Sandawe has a masculine-feminine distinction for people but inanimate objects don't have a gender (masculine is used by default, feminine can be used to mean the object is small, and some people use feminine for the Sun and Moon).

Probably won't bother replying to further lies and obfuscation from Clyde.

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the questioner
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Partly what Capra said is what i agree with

African languages however generally do not have infixes like Semitic and European languages do

Ancient Egyptian or other African languages with Asiatic influence do not have infixes this is what separates them from Europe and Asia

example
Europeans say- sing, sung, sang
Semitics say- kataba, katabnā , yaktubu, kātib from the root KTB

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Questions expose liars

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DD'eDeN
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Question: Has anyone ever heard of the Lusu people of West Africa, around Ghana, Gambia, Sierra Leone? A ref. to Fernando Poo discovering a river there mentioned Lusu, but I can't find it. In reference to original name "Guinea".

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xyambuatlaya

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by capra:
Sex-gender is not exclusive to Afro-Asiatic in Africa, but Clyde is full of shit as usual.

Sidamo and Oromo are Afro-Asiatic languages; the markers Clyde is claiming may actually exist and be cognate with Egyptian, though I certainly wouldn't trust him to report anything accurately.

Zulu has a suffix -kazi which can be added to words for animals or people to make them female, e.g. invu "sheep", invukazi "ewe". This is from a common Bantu root meaning "woman", PB *kádí. It is not a feminine grammatical marker and has no demonstrable connection to Egyptian.

I don't know about Ronga, but Clyde is probably lying.

Neither Wolof nor Zulu have sex-specific personal pronouns. Ijo, Zande, and a handful of other Niger-Congo (if that is a thing) languages do.

This is not the same thing as the sex-based gender in Egyptian, Semitic, and many other Afro-Asiatic languages. It is like the difference between English and French: in English we distinguish 'he' and 'she' for people, but not for objects, and there are no distinct masculine and feminine forms for articles, adjectives, etc. In French, however, all nouns have a gender - an eye is 'he' and a tongue is 'she': le oeil, la langue. In Middle Egyptian jrt "eye" is feminine, ns "tongue" is masculine. Other words have to agree with the gender of the noun.

Many so-called 'Khoisan' languages really do have masculine and feminine grammatical gender, e.g. Hadza and Khoekhoe. Sandawe has a masculine-feminine distinction for people but inanimate objects don't have a gender (masculine is used by default, feminine can be used to mean the object is small, and some people use feminine for the Sun and Moon).

Probably won't bother replying to further lies and obfuscation from Clyde.

Stupid Euronut. LOL. You are a joke. You admit that everything I wrote about gender based African languages is correct and then call me a liar.

You should be ashamed of yourself. But I know you are not since you, like other Euronuts, are the purveyor of lies.

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C. A. Winters

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by the questioner:
Partly what Capra said is what i agree with

African languages however generally do not have infixes like Semitic and European languages do

Ancient Egyptian or other African languages with Asiatic influence do not have infixes this is what separates them from Europe and Asia

example
Europeans say- sing, sung, sang
Semitics say- kataba, katabnā , yaktubu, kātib from the root KTB

Diop discovered that at the base of each semetic word we find a Black African, Niger-Congo root.

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This statement was made by Diop in his book The Cultural Unity of Black Africa. See page 113.


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Anta Diop is sure that many Semitic words can be interpreted using Egyptian in the pages below he discusses the Semitic word for book and Abraham.

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C. A. Winters

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Clyde Winters
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In addition to African linguistic relationships with Semitic, we find that Elamite, the Dravidian languages and Sumerian are related to the Mande language.

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C. A. Winters

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capra
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
You admit that everything I wrote about gender based African languages is correct and then call me a liar.

Everyone who's interacted with you for more than five minutes knows you're a liar, Clyde. I have no information about Ronga, you can go right ahead and provide evidence showing that you are correct. A chance at one tiny victory for you, hey?

You claimed that Wolof and Zulu had masculine and feminine personal pronouns. That is not correct, provide evidence that it is or admit your error. You gave a supposed Zulu feminine ending -azi, there is no such thing. You claimed that gender systems are common in Niger-Congo languages - as everyone knows *non-sex-based* noun class systems are common in Niger-Congo languages, but *sex-based* gender systems - the actual topic of the discussion - are not, even a minimal sex distinction in pronouns is rarely found. The scanned source you yourself have posted agrees with me.

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by capra:
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
You admit that everything I wrote about gender based African languages is correct and then call me a liar.

Everyone who's interacted with you for more than five minutes knows you're a liar, Clyde. I have no information about Ronga, you can go right ahead and provide evidence showing that you are correct. A chance at one tiny victory for you, hey?

You claimed that Wolof and Zulu had masculine and feminine personal pronouns. That is not correct, provide evidence that it is or admit your error. You gave a supposed Zulu feminine ending -azi, there is no such thing. You claimed that gender systems are common in Niger-Congo languages - as everyone knows *non-sex-based* noun class systems are common in Niger-Congo languages, but *sex-based* gender systems - the actual topic of the discussion - are not, even a minimal sex distinction in pronouns is rarely found. The scanned source you yourself have posted agrees with me.

Stop making up stuff. You have not debunked anything I wrote. Just like Bernardo, you love to lie.

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C. A. Winters

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capra
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lol, you got nothing do you? sad
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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by capra:
lol, you got nothing do you? sad

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Stop making up stuff. You have not debunked anything I wrote. Just like Bernardo, you love to lie.

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C. A. Winters

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