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Author Topic: A GENETIC CHRONOLOGY OF AFRICAN Y-CHROMOSOMES R-V88 AND R-M269 IN AFRICA AND EURASIA
Clyde Winters
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A GENETIC CHRONOLOGY OF AFRICAN Y-CHROMOSOMES R-V88
AND R-M269 IN AFRICA AND EURASIA

*Clyde Winters

ABSTRACT
There is a global distribution of Y-Chromosome R-M343 subclades across the African continent. The
major subclades are R-M269 and R-V88. The V88 subclade is the oldest clade to separate from R-M343.
The V88 sub-clade, had relatives in Early Neolithic samples from across a wide geographic area from
Iberia, eastward to Germany and Samara. This would place carriers of relatives of V88 among the
Yamnaya and Bell Beaker people. Given the wide distribution of V88 and M269 in Africa and Neolithic
Europe suggest that, the Bell Beaker and Yamnaya people were Africans, not Indo-Europeans, because
these cultural complexes and the people who practiced these cultures originated in Africa.


See: http://www.cibtech.org/J-LIFE-SCIENCES/PUBLICATIONS/2017/VOL-7-NO-2/04-JLS-004-WINTERS-A-EURASIA.pdf

.

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C. A. Winters

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Clyde Winters
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 -


'.

"There were numerous out of Africa exits into Iberia. The African migrants introduced into Europe, the Aurignacian, Solutrean, Bell Beaker/Corded ware and Moorish cultures between 44,000 BC and 1492 AD. These Sub-Saharan populations belonged to the Black Variety".

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C. A. Winters

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Clyde Winters
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"Agro-Pastoral people cultivated crops and herded cattle. Elements of the Agro-Pastoral members of the
Bell Beaker and Corded Ware complexes appear first in the African Sahara. Here, we see rock engravings
of cattle herders and hunters using similar bow and arrows. The Yamnaya archers' wrist-guard and bows
may have had their origin in the Sahara where we see similar wrist-guards (Le Quellec, 2011).

Daugas et al., (1989) provides a number of radio carbon dates for the Bell Beaker complex in North
Africa. We find Beaker Bell ware dating to 3700 BC in Morocco. By 2700 BC we see the expansion of
Beaker complex into Iberia (Daugas et al., 1989). The Iberian Bell Beaker complex is associated with the
“Maritime tradition” (Mathieson et al., 2017; Turek, 2012).

There are numerous Bell Beaker sites in the Sahara and Morocco. A center of the Moroccan Beaker
complex ceramics and arrowheads come from Hassi Ouenzga and in the cave of Ifri Ouberrid. Artifacts
found at these sites are similar to Iberian Beaker complex forms (Nekkal and Mikdad, 2014). The
interesting fact about the discovery of these artifacts is that they were widespread across the Middle Atlas
mountains at sites such as El-Kiffen, Skhirat – de Rouazi, Kehf, That el Gher and Ifri Ouberrid (Guilaine,
1976; Mikdad, 1998; Nekka and Mikdad, 2014). This finding matches Turek (2012); which explains the
spread of typically beaker style stamped decoration Bell Beaker culture pottery from Morocco into Iberia,
and thence the rest of Europe.

Kivisild (2017) and Mathieson et al., (2017), provides a detailed discussion of R1 in prehistoric Europe.
One of the most interesting finding was the presence of V88 in ancient Europe (Haak et al., 2015;
Kivisild, 2017; Mathieson et al., 2017). It is also interesting to note that the European Agro-Pastoral
populations associated with Bell Beaker and Yamnaya carry the genomes associated with Africans
recorded in 2010 as illustrated in Figure 1 and Table 2. "

See: http://www.cibtech.org/J-LIFE-SCIENCES/PUBLICATIONS/2017/VOL-7-NO-2/04-JLS-004-WINTERS-A-EURASIA.pdf
.

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C. A. Winters

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Clyde Winters
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"Today the Black Variety is referred too, in the archaeogenetics literature as Sub-Saharan Africans.

Between 3200-2900 BC, African culture and people began to migrate into Iberia and introduced
megaliths and the Bell Beaker culture (Lahovary, 1963). Spanish researchers accepted the reality that the Iberia Peninsula owed the major parts of Neolithic Iberia to African immigrants (Lahovary, 1963; Macwhite, 1947).

MacWhite (1947) claims there was a close relationship between Iberia and Britain. These researchers admit that Portugal and Brittany were settled by Megalithic Africans who founded respectively the Mugem and Teviec sepultures (Lahovary, 1963; MacWhite, 1947).

Olalde et al., (2017) discuss the spread of Bell Beaker culture across Europe 27 kya. These researchers found limited genetic affinity between individuals from Iberian and central Europeans. Olalde et al.,(2017) concludes that migration probably played an insignificant mechanism in the spread of R1 within the two areas.


The Neolithic British farmers were genetically similar to Neolithic Iberians dating between 3900–1200 BCE (Olalde et al., 2017; MacWhite, 1947; Mathieson et al., 2017). The British farmers were replaced by farmers of the Beaker culture (Olalde et al., 2017). Eighty-four percent of the Beaker Bell Steppe migrants carried R1b (Olalde et al., 2017).

Bell Beaker appeared in Iberia around 2700 BCE (Cardoso, 2014; Olalde et al., 2017; Müller and van Willigen, 2001). It is interesting to note that while most people in the Iberian Beaker complex carried the G2 and I2a2 haplogroups (Olalde et al., 2017; Mathieson et al., 2017). Iberians during this period also carried R-V88 (Kivisild, 2017; Mathieson et al., 2017)."

See: http://www.cibtech.org/J-LIFE-SCIENCES/PUBLICATIONS/2017/VOL-7-NO-2/04-JLS-004-WINTERS-A-EURASIA.pdf

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C. A. Winters

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Clyde Winters
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The so-called ancient cultures of Europe were not Indo-European, because I-E speakers did not exist at this time. These ancient Europeans were blacks predominately carrying mtDNA H, and Y-Chromosome R1b.

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Only the Corded Ware people were predominately R1a.

The majority of Indians who carry R1a were Dravidian speakers. The Dravidians belonged to the C-Group culture and only recently entered India from Africa.

Africans carry haplogroup R1a.

In India the Dravidian people carry the R1a haplogroup The Dravidian people of India originally lived in Middle Africa and belonged to the Proto-Saharan Civilization.
The Proto-Saharan civilization was situated in the Proto-Sahara, which includes Cameroon.
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In Cameroon we find carriers of R1a.
In addition to carriers of R1a in Cameroon; the Dravidian languages are still spoken today in Cameroon see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWyAYGlFZjkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWyAYGlFZjk

The Corded Ware Culture, Yamna Culture and etc., were all cultures that originated after the Dravidan and Mande people were spreading throughout Eurasia. These people were not I-E speakers. They carried haplogroups common to other Blacks who did not migrate out of Africa.

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C. A. Winters

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Lion
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Haplogroup R1a and R1b started appearing in Africa? I thought that in Africa only had Rb.
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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by Lion:
Haplogroup R1a and R1b started appearing in Africa? I thought that in Africa only had Rb.

This was always a myth because the Dravidians carry R1a--they originated in Africa.

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C. A. Winters

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:
Originally posted by Lion:
Haplogroup R1a and R1b started appearing in Africa? I thought that in Africa only had Rb.

This was always a myth because the Dravidians carry R1a--they originated in Africa.
All people originated in Africa, that is an invalid argument

but all haplogroups did not

People mutated while they were in Africa and while they were outside of Africa

So in order to prove that R1a was in Africa you need ancient remains proving that

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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:
Originally posted by Lion:
Haplogroup R1a and R1b started appearing in Africa? I thought that in Africa only had Rb.

This was always a myth because the Dravidians carry R1a--they originated in Africa.
All people originated in Africa, that is an invalid argument

but all haplogroups did not

People mutated while they were in Africa and while they were outside of Africa

So in order to prove that R1a was in Africa you need ancient remains proving that

Not really. Dravidians originated in Africa and as a result, they took the haplogroup with them to Eurasia. We can support this theory based on two sources of evidence:

1) R1a continues to be found in Chad-Cameroon along with R1b;

2)Tamil, a Dravidian language continues to be spoken in Chad-Cameroon.

The continued presence of Tamil language and haplogroups in Middle Africa, confirms the origin of Dravidians in Africa.

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C. A. Winters

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the lioness,
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Everything you said there is false
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Clyde Winters
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Everything you said there is false

.

Dravidians originated in Africa and as a result, they took the haplogroup with them to Eurasia. We can support this theory based on two sources of evidence:

1) R1a continues to be found in Chad-Cameroon along with R1b;

2)Tamil, a Dravidian language continues to be spoken in Chad-Cameroon.

The continued presence of Tamil language and haplogroups in Middle Africa, confirms the origin of Dravidians in Africa.

.

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C. A. Winters

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Clyde Winters
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C. A. Winters

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Dr. Winters has said something that I have never heard before. We have the Internet. We can search out for more information.

So, I checked other postings on this topic. Many people of Tamil descent say that Tamil language is spoken in Cameroon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWyAYGlFZjk


This YouTube Video is posted by a Tamil and shows Cameroonians speaking Tamil. In the discussion under the video, another poster of Tamil descent postulates that the Tamil language and people started in Africa. These ideas are not Dr. C. Winter's imagination or wishful musings.

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Red, White, and Blue + Christian
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http://arutkural.tripod.com/tolcampus/drav-african.htm

Interesting link from a Tamil's perspective.

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Red, White, and Blue + Christian
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Y Chromosome R1a is found in Cameroon among the Kirdi and the Fulani.

However, R1a was renamed and the R-M173 has been renamed R1b1a2 (R-V88).

The term Kirdi in Cameroon means someone who did not convert to the religion of the crescent.

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Linda Fahr
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Red, White, and Blue + Christian,

Thank you so much for your contribution to post the video from Tamil.

I may studies, and searches for the link between West Africans and Indians, I see Africans in some regions of India in their circular Yogini temples, their anatomy, their body and dance expressions captured on their Indian sculptures, West African words named Indian regions as well.

Great job....Again, Thank you sooooooooo...much... [Smile]

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---lnnnnn*

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Linda Fahr
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Red, White, and Blue + Christian,

Thank you so much for your contribution to post the video from Tamil.

In my studies, and searches for the link between West Africans and Indians, I see Africans in some regions of India in their circular Yogini temples, their anatomy, their body and dance expressions captured on their Indian sculptures, West African words named Indian regions as well.

Great job....Again, Thank you sooooooooo...much... [Smile]

--------------------
---lnnnnn*

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Linda Fahr
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Now...what Tamil Chinthanaiyalar Peravai - the guy which posted the video on Youtube said:

This video establishes the fact that one of the tribes of the west African nation, speak Tamil, using the Videos by NOVA. In this video, for the first time, we have explained the origin of the name "Berber" of a tribe of people who speak Tamazight language. It is a north African language spoken by Moroco, Algeria & Libya people. Berber means "Dry Land" people and word origin is Tamil Varavara, which is an adjective meaning Dry in Tamil. Our conclusion is proven right from the fact that Tinfinagh script of the Tamazight language is a derivative of Indus script which again is a Ancient Tamil Script. Tamazight also sounds like Tamil. The fact that Cameroonians, situated close to Algeria, speak deformed dialect of Tamil, strengthens our conclusion that all the African languages including Tamazight, were derived from ancient Tamil.


IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE!
Were Africans which migrated to Tamil, not otherwise! So far, I notice, that not only Europeans, but Indians as well want to claim for themselves African culture and history. I see Indians all over the place on the internet barking like rabid dogs, claiming that they were the founders of ancient Egyptian and Sumerian civilizations.

The fact is, Indians did not developed written system until 350 BC, while Egyptians had developed in 4000 BC, two written systems - a cursive Hieratic script applied only to write sciences, and laws, and hieroglyphs applied to religion and public announcements..And of course, Egyptians also developed the 'PAPER" AND "INK".

Now...there are descendants of Indian emigrants living in North Africa, which arrived in the region about 800 to 1000 years ago following Arabs soldiers back to Africa. In the west, they are called - ciganos, gypsies,romany etc...

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---lnnnnn*

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Linda Fahr
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Continuing...

The oldest Tamil's script, called Mangulam Tamil Brahmi inscription. In fact was developed after Alexander the Great invaded India. it has similarities to ancient Greek alphabet.

Indians, like Europeans, when they can't found solid grounds to claim African and Sumerian ancient histories for themselves, they like to increase their history dates out of proportions, to equal themselves to Africans, Sumerians and Greek ancient civilizations.

By the way...in accordance to Indian scholars, Brahmi's were an almost white, light brown skinned people, which developed the Tamil Brahmi script and ruled over Indians.

And the Brahmi script is also similar to ancient Greek alphabet. In fact in their Heliodorus pillar in the Indian state of Madhya Pradesh, installed about ("120 BC") after 280 years after Alexander the Great invasion of India, is now named as an "Indo-Greek". The pillar's inscription states that "Heliodorus"(which is an ancient Greek name) is a Bhagvatena devotee of Vishnu. Which means, that some of Greeks Macedonians which invaded India with Alexander the Great, stayed in India, and adopted Indian religion.

Greek Macedonians also stayed in Afghanistan.
They were the White Huns- Hephthalite, formed in Bactria around 450s, and try to finished the military conquests in Eastern Asia, that Alexander didn't because he died young. They invaded many Eastern Asians countries including India...In India, they became the Brahmi people.

And that is an Indian temple- Kapaleeshwarar in Tamil Nandu built between 8th and 11th century... Which is not more or less, than a cheap imitation of ANCIENT Egyptian pyramids.... D:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapaleeshwarar_Temple#/media/File:Mylapore_Kapaleeshwarar_temple_facade.jpg

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---lnnnnn*

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