The Ma'at - Islam Debate: Dr Wesley Muhammad and Mukasa Afrika Ma'at. Part V 2012
quote: time, starts 2:33 "the honorable Elijah Muhammad absolutely said we are the Asiatic blackman" (4:05) "the entirety of the planet At one time was called Asia... if you look at 15th, 16th century maps you have Africa denoted as East Asia as the Honorable Elijah Muhammad says... at one time the planet was called Asia"
--Dr Wesley Muhammad
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1) is there any reference source that says at one time the entire planet was called Asia?
2) where is a 15th or 16th century map that calls the whole world Asia and Africa called "East Asia" ?
here are several early world maps on Wikipedia , type:
"Early world maps"
I can't link it because it won't post due to html codes
He also mentions the word "Pangaea" but that is a 20th century word
Here we have the Holy Koran of the Moorish Science Temple of America (1926) founded by Noble Drew Ali (and completely different from the regular Koran)
the Moorish Science Temple of America was founded in 1913 in Newark, New Jersey
The founding of the Nation of Islam by Wallace Fard Muhammad in 1930
"Asiatic Nation of North America" refers to African Americans aka "Moorish Americans" and fellow "Asiatics" listed above
So prior to the Nation of Islam, Noble Drew Ali was calling African Americans "Asiatic". The nation of Islam continued with "Asiatic Blackman" but did not go with "Moorish Americans"
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Turkish flag
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Their source is Jewish mysticism, Kabbalah. According to this mystery system, the universe is divided into four regions, with the material world as one. The material plane, earth, is called ASSIAH. This is where the word ASIA stems from according to Kabbalists. Noble Drew Ali adopted this doctrine and eventually made its way into NOI official teachings.
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quote:Originally posted by Lanoforge: Their source is Jewish mysticism, Kabbalah. According to this mystery system, the universe is divided into four regions, with the material world as one. The material plane, earth, is called ASSIAH. This is where the word ASIA stems from according to Kabbalists. Noble Drew Ali adopted this doctrine and eventually made its way into NOI official teachings.
quote:Originally posted by Lanoforge: Their source is Jewish mysticism, Kabbalah. According to this mystery system, the universe is divided into four regions, with the material world as one. The material plane, earth, is called ASSIAH. This is where the word ASIA stems from according to Kabbalists. Noble Drew Ali adopted this doctrine and eventually made its way into NOI official teachings.
However When master Fard Muhammad, Elijah Muhammad or Noble Drew Ali spoke of Asia, in their books it is written Asia not Assiah or it's other spelling Asiyah "the World of Action" which is a material place but in a spiritual world, not actual earth geography
For instance Assiah or Asiyah is not mentioned in the Holy Koran of the Moorish science Temple
in the above The Divine Origin of the Asiatic Nations you can see actual geographic places named
not like the spiritual concept in the Kabbalah is described
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posted
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
I have little doubt TH Elijah Muhammad adapted עֲשִׂיָה `Asiyah as Asia meaning all earth possibly. It'd be done from reading not hearing the term since the 1st letter is gutteral, short, and lacks the accent.
Can't say too much but the entire physical cosmos is due to Assiah.
Back in the early 20th century Christianity Islam and Judaism, their ideologies, circulated and mingled among the 'mystic' minded Black Americans. On top of that spiritual leaders like Daddy Grace were doing their thing too.
Many balked at buying 4 complete sets of tableware and kitchenware from forksnknives to potsnpans, 2 of which are only used for 8 days out of the year, so few gravitated to a Jewish way.
quote:"the entirety of the planet At one time was called Asia... if you look at 15th, 16th century maps you have Africa denoted as East Asia as the Honorable Elijah Muhammad says... at one time the planet was called Asia"
--Dr Wesley Muhammad
15th and 16th century maps would not be reflecting the Kabbalah
wikipedia
The Zohar is the foundational work in the literature of Jewish mystical thought known as Kabbalah
The Zohar first appeared in Spain in the 13th century, and was published by a Jewish writer named Moses de León.
The view of some non-Chasidic Orthodox Jews and Orthodox groups, as well as non-Orthodox Jewish denominations, generally conforms to Scholem's view, and as such, most such groups have long viewed the Zohar as pseudepigraphy and apocrypha, while sometimes accepting that its contents may have meaning for modern Judaism.
quote:"Christianity is for the European (paleface); Moslemism is for the Asiatic (olive-skinned). --Elijah Muhammad
note the word Moslemism instead of Islam
quote: THE SUPREME WISDOM LESSONS by MASTER FARD MUHAMMAD to His Servant, THE MOST HONORABLE ELIJAH MUHAMMAD for THE LOST-FOUND NATION OF ISLAM in NORTH AMERICA THE SUPREME WISDOM LESSONS Originated By Our Saviour, MASTER FARD MUHAMMAD
IV. LOST FOUND MUSLIM LESSON NO. 1
6. Why does the Devil call our people - Africans? Answer: To make our people of North America believe that the people on that continent are the only people they have and are all savage. He bought a trading post in the jungle of that continent. The original people live on this continent and they are the ones who strayed away from civilization and are living a jungle life. The original people call this continent - Asia, but the Devils call it, Africa, to try to divide them. He wants us to think that we are all different.
quote: "These results indicate that the ancestor of all Semitic languages in our dataset was being spoken in the Near East no earlier than approximately 7400 YBP, after having after having diverged from Afroasiatic in Africa"
(i) Semitic had an Early Bronze Age origin (approx. 5750 YBP) in the Levant, followed by an expansion of Akkadian into Mesopotamia;
(ii) Central and South Semitic diverged earlier than previously thought throughout the Levant during the Early to Middle Bronze Age transition; and
(iii) Ethiosemitic arose as the result of a single, possibly pre-Aksumite, introduction of a lineage from southern Arabia to the Horn of Africa approximately 2800 YBP.
~Andrew Kitchen, Christopher Ehret, Shiferaw Assefa and Connie J. Mulligan
Bayesian phylogenetic analysis of Semitic languages identifies an Early Bronze Age origin of Semitic in the Near East Proc. R. Soc. B (2009) 276, 2703–2710 doi:10.1098/rspb.2009.0408
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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The Ma'at - Islam Debate: Dr Wesley Muhammad and Mukasa Afrika Ma'at. Part V 2012
quote: time, starts 2:33 "the honorable Elijah Muhammad absolutely said we are the Asiatic blackman" (4:05) "the entirety of the planet At one time was called Asia... if you look at 15th, 16th century maps you have Africa denoted as East Asia as the Honorable Elijah Muhammad says... at one time the planet was called Asia"
--Dr Wesley Muhammad
__________________
1) is there any reference source that says at one time the entire planet was called Asia?
2) where is a 15th or 16th century map that calls the whole world Asia and Africa called "East Asia" ?
So do you think any of what you posted address these questions, the statements by the NOI and their lack of Africanity
or are you trying to divert the topic to be "was there any dark skinned people in the ancient middle east?"
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I know it's not the original. There was a poster who had the original posted on here. However, that is not the point here. The point here to trace the origin of the crescent. And there is a crescent on the headwear. There are more image from that era and region showing the half-moon and star. lol
You are criticizing the origin, but don't know their teachings. lol
Instead of corrupting peoples posts, try to answer for once.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: So do you think any of what you posted address these questions, the statements by the NOI and their lack of Africanity
or are you trying to divert the topic to be "was there any dark skinned people in the ancient middle east?"
Yes, it does. lol Do you even understand the basic of the teachings by Elijah Muhammad? Their teachings is about the Asiatic Blacks. Their teachings is about the "origin of civilization". By now we know there was Black people in the region. lol
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: So do you think any of what you posted address these questions, the statements by the NOI and their lack of Africanity
or are you trying to divert the topic to be "was there any dark skinned people in the ancient middle east?"
Yes, it does. lol Do you even understand the basic of the teachings by Elijah Muhammad? Their teachings is about the Asiatic Blacks. Their teachings is about the "origin of civilization".
Yes I understand it. Elijah Muhammad refers to black people in America as Asiatic not African
He doesn't like the word Africa and prefers the Greek word Asia and he says that "Asia" in this regard means the whole world with the exception of Europeans
be careful because I can quote him and go to all the primary sources.
And Noble Drew Ali started this concept before he did.
This goes back to the 1920s and 30s and they both had negative stereotypical views of Africans (blame it on the American education system if you want) so they preferred black people in America to be described as Asiatic and also to make association with Islam although most of what they taught was their own ideas lot more then that of the Qu'ran
Master Fard Muhammad who founded the Nation of Islam said the best part of the planet Earth is Mecca
Elijah Muhammad's plan had similarities to segregation but separatism is a more accurate way to describe it
quote: We want our people in America whose parents or grandparents were descendants from slaves, to be allowed to establish a separate state or territory of their own–either on this continent or elsewhere. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to provide such land and that the area must be fertile and minerally rich. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to maintain and supply our needs in this separate territory for the next 20 to 25 years–until we are able to produce and supply our own needs.
posted
LOL If you understood the theory, you wouldn't to have made this thread. This thing goes deep into Masonry. Thus I told to look up "MASONIC FEZ SHRINER" as well. lol
Btw, here is the original. And as you dan see there is a half moon on the headwear.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: you can see there is a half moon on the headwear.
This has absolutely nothing to do with Elijah Muhammad or the flag of the NOI. -which is clearly related to Islam and the flag design is clearly similar in color and design to the Turkish flag
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: We are speaking of the origin os symbols here. And you absolutely don't know nothing about Elijah Muhammad's philosophies. Have you asked yourself from where the Turkish flag came and how old it is? lol
Sun, Moon and Star.
Islam = what to the NOI? lol ISelf Lord And Master!
"Man, you strive hard to get closer to your Lord, and so you will finally meet Him." (Surah al-Inshiqaq, 84:6) AYAH an-Nisa`4:1
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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All one needs to do is type "MASONIC FEZ SHRINER".
yes, this is the source of the symbols. Elijah Muhammad said nothing about the ancient Mari in Syria and the crescent in the NOI flag having anything to do with a Mari crescent. His intent was clearly Islam and in a similar way to how the Shriners used it
Juts because a symbol might be copied from an early place does not means it is intended to means the same thing, perfect example the Nazi swastika
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Elijah Muhammad said nothing about the ancient Mari in Syria and the crescent in the NOI flag having anything to do with a Mari crescent.
Of course he's not going to tell that openly like that. This only becomes clear when you go into his teachings of the Asiatic Blacks.
For common people the descriptor is:
quote:The Flag of Islam with the symbols of the Sun, Moon, and the Stars, represent the Universe and is also a Banner of Universal peace and Harmony. Our Holy Temples of Islam were established in America as sanctuaries of peace and higher learning into the Knowledge of the Oneness of God. Our schools are called Universities of Islam and teach the higher meaning of Islam which is Mathematics. We have always been taught to respect the laws of the land. We are taught never to carry arms, to make war or to be the aggressor, for this is against the nature of the righteous. We are taught the Principles of Divine Unity and the Universal Brotherhood of Islam.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: His intent was clearly Islam and in a similar way to how the Shriners used it
And what is it shriners follow? lol On what knowledge is it all based? lol
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Juts because a symbol might be copied from an early place does not means it is intended to means the same thing, perfect example the Nazi swastika
It depend on who is copying it. And from where to original teaching come.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb]Elijah Muhammad said nothing about the ancient Mari in Syria and the crescent in the NOI flag having anything to do with a Mari crescent.
Of course he's not going to tell that openly like that. This only becomes clear when you go into his teachings of the Asiatic Blacks.
tell us which blacks in America would Elijah Muhammad have described as Asiatic?
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Islam = what to the NOI? lol ISelf Lord And Master!
Wrong, Elijah Muhammad never taught that is what Islam stands for
This is evident that you don't know what you are talking about. This is why you can't name any of the teachings. lol
I am not in the NOI or FOI etc., but I have studied a significant amount of time to understand it.
Tell, what are the teachings of the 33 degrees by the NOI? lol
What you are telling is that ll these people who follow this philosophy are actually wrong, and you are right. lol
Even Khalid Muhammad had a speech in I.S.L.A.M..
From where do you think the anthropomorphism philosophy came? lol
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
And no traditional Muslim would agree with that either
It doesn't matter, if they agree or not. The way it was shaped and formed is suited for the experiences in the USA.
فَإِذَا سَوَّيْتُهُ وَنَفَخْتُ فِيهِ مِن رُّوحِي فَقَعُوا لَهُ سَاجِدِينَ - 15:29 And when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My [created] soul, then fall down to him in prostration.
فَإِذَا سَوَّيْتُهُ وَنَفَخْتُ فِيهِ مِن رُّوحِي فَقَعُوا لَهُ سَاجِدِينَ - 38:72 and when I have formed him fully and breathed into him of My spirit, fall you down before him in prostration!” [56] - 38:72
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Ish Gebor please tell us tell us which blacks in America would Elijah Muhammad have described as Asiatic?
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: tell us which blacks in America would Elijah Muhammad have described as Asiatic?
No, you answer my questions. That's how we are going to play this game.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: be careful because I can quote him and go to all the primary sources.
And Noble Drew Ali started this concept before he did.
This goes back to the 1920s and 30s and they both had negative stereotypical views of Africans (blame it on the American education system if you want) so they preferred black people in America to be described as Asiatic and also to make association with Islam although most of what they taught was their own ideas lot more then that of the Qu'ran
Master Fard Muhammad who founded the Nation of Islam said the best part of the planet Earth is Mecca
Elijah Muhammad's plan had similarities to segregation but separatism is a more accurate way to describe it
quote: We want our people in America whose parents or grandparents were descendants from slaves, to be allowed to establish a separate state or territory of their own–either on this continent or elsewhere. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to provide such land and that the area must be fertile and minerally rich. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to maintain and supply our needs in this separate territory for the next 20 to 25 years–until we are able to produce and supply our own needs.
The above is based socioeconomic and sociopolitical issues.
It doesn't teach the deeper lessons. People recover from traumatic experiences in life, not because of these socioeconomic and sociopolitical demands, but from the lessons. lol
Show primary sources that teaches the lessons. lol
quote: Supreme Wisdom, Supreme Mathematics and the Mind of God
Not only did he, but he demonstrated that he was brought into the understanding of far deeper mathematical truths, which produced, correlated and interlocked all aspects of reality—including all of the problems of humanity—by Almighty God Himself. He was taught the very root of all mathematics. This root is in the brain, or mind, of the human being. God taught and brought him into the very nature of the movement of the mind of Him, Who originally conceived of all of that which we call “universe” and Who produced the human mind. Allah taught him the root of mathematics—which ultimately resides in the core of the mind of God Himself.
The six written lessons that we received through the Honorable Elijah Muhammad were put together out of an extraordinarily high mathematical manner. And, let us remember, he was a man with a 4th grade education, who started his teachings in the 1930s, presenting scientific facts before this world’s scientists learned of them!
I don't want to abuse you, but for some weird reason you like it.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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which blacks in America would Elijah Muhammad have described as Asiatic?
because I can see you don't know and it's very basic. You can go trying to look it up now but I would prefer to speak to someone more informed on Nation of Islam teachings
You had a picture of EM with "I self Lord and Master" He never said that, that is the NGE. If you say that to an NOI member they are going to say that's not us it's Clarence
You messed up and won't admit errors
The topic here is there term Asiatic as used by Elijah Muhammad and what he meant by it and who he mainly was talking about
I'll tell you who he was talking about. He was mainly talking about American black people of African decent when he said "Asiatic" not specifically blacks in Asia and then at the same time said the whole planet was once called Asia but also said Europeans are not Asiatic Does it all add up and make sense? No
But when he said "Asiatic Blackman" he was almost always addressing a large audience of American black people of African decent and was referring to them as Asiatic.
And secondarily he would refer to all of humanity as Asiatic except Europeans
This is 2020, black people in America of African descent do not call themselves "Asiatic" and they never will. Wesley is still teaching this fail. I don't hear Minister Farrakhan speaking much about it
This whole thing on Egyptsearch about the Buddha being black, Persian being black, Elamites being black, the ancient Chinese being black, etc etc That is a branch of afrocentrism and the NOI is not really into that. They are into their own racial separatist ideas, mother ship space craft, Yakub, scientist of Shabazz, etc and making some associations with Islam, Mecca and sometimes Christianity as well. They are not that interested in black people in ancient Africa or East Asia, South Asia, India etc. Think I'm wrong? Go get some Elijah Muhammad books and listen to his speeches. He's not into ancient Sumer, early Europeans looking black, the Olmec etc etc That is not his thang. He doesn't talk about that stuff and neither did his teacher Master Fard. Master Fard said Mecca was the bets place on Earth and Elijah Muhammad said Master Fard's father was from Mecca. The word "Islam" is part of the name of the group. They wanted to get away from the American paradigm of Christianity. Another power center is Islam so they choose to associate with that and the center of Islam is in Asia in Arabia. Did Elijah Muhammad talk about Arabia being an extension of Africa ? No he preferred the word Asia to Africa
You are asking me about the lessons? I already quoted from them
quote: IV. LOST FOUND MUSLIM LESSON NO. 1
6. Why does the Devil call our people - Africans? Answer: To make our people of North America believe that the people on that continent are the only people they have and are all savage.
--Master Fard Muhammad, Elijah Muhammad's teacher
the suggestion here is not to call yourself African, that is something the white man tells you to do. Instead call yourself Asiatic
-- even if your ancestors came direct from places like Ghana or Angola
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: the suggestion here is not to call yourself African, that is something the white man tells you to do. Instead call yourself Asiatic
-- even if your ancestors came direct from places like Ghana or Angola
Hmm, they have more lessons. lol The more one advances, the further one gets into the knowledge.
And the reason why he used Asia as a metaphor is because he was in the western hemisphere and everything leaned towards to East.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: which blacks in America would Elijah Muhammad have described as Asiatic?
There was only one type of black people in the USA when he spoke of these things. So who would he be talking about? lol smh
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote: "the entirety of the planet At one time was called Asia... if you look at 15th, 16th century maps you have Africa denoted as East Asia "
--Dr Wesley Muhammad
Instead of going on diversions maybe there is such a map, maybe you could find such a map
--unless he made it up
Dr. Wesley Muhammad isn't here to reply to you. lol
He's a member of Egyptsearch. But Minister Farakkhan probably told him stop debating the lioness
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quote: "the entirety of the planet At one time was called Asia... if you look at 15th, 16th century maps you have Africa denoted as East Asia "
--Dr Wesley Muhammad
Instead of going on diversions maybe there is such a map, maybe you could find such a map
--unless he made it up
Dr. Wesley Muhammad isn't here to reply to you. lol
He's a member of Egyptsearch. But Minister Farrakhan probably told him stop debating the lioness
lol The NOI is well organized and indeed he can't debate and say things whenever he likes. You on the other hand are very anarchic, and most likely not ever worthy a debate, since he has quit debating people who are not scholarly and academically trained. See what he has done to Paul Guthrie. lol
And if Minister Farrakhan told him not to debate you, he did it for your best will, safety and mental health. lol
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] the suggestion here is not to call yourself African, that is something the white man tells you to do. Instead call yourself Asiatic
-- even if your ancestors came direct from places like Ghana or Angola
Hmm, they have more lessons. lol The more one advances, the further one gets into the knowledge.
You are just making stuff up from the top of your head. There is only one set of Lessons, go read it I posted the link
Other teachings they do not call Lessons.
The Lessons include test questions. You have to memorize them to become a member
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: the suggestion here is not to call yourself African, that is something the white man tells you to do. Instead call yourself Asiatic
-- even if your ancestors came direct from places like Ghana or Angola
Hmm, they have more lessons. lol The more one advances, the further one gets into the knowledge.
You are just making stuff up from the top of your head. There is only one set of Lessons, go read it I posted the link
Other teachings they do not call Lessons.
The Lessons include test questions. You have to memorize them to become a member
No I am not making stuff up, I am telling you what they from the NOI are telling/ explaining. lol
You don't understand hierarchy, to you that is a foreign concept. lol You are used to anarchy that is why you can't believe such thing exists.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
It's interesting to denote that the term Earth as the name for this planet is not that old. Perhaps Dr. Wesley Muhammad is referring to non-Western based maps?
quote: Asia
c. 1300, from Latin Asia, from Greek Asia, speculated to be from Akkadian asu "to go out, to rise," in reference to the sun, thus "the land of the sunrise." Used by the early Greeks of what later was known as Asia Minor; by Pliny of the whole continent.
Old English eorþe "ground, soil, dirt, dry land; country, district," also used (along with middangeard) for "the (material) world, the abode of man" (as opposed to the heavens or the underworld), from Proto-Germanic *ertho (source also of Old Frisian erthe "earth," Old Saxon ertha, Old Norse jörð, Middle Dutch eerde, Dutch aarde, Old High German erda, German Erde, Gothic airþa), perhaps from an extended form of PIE root *er- (2) "earth, ground."
The earth considered as a planet was so called from c. 1400. Use in old chemistry is from 1728. Earth-mover "large digging machine" is from 1940.
1712, "belonging to a prehistoric age," see old + world. Meaning "of or pertaining to Eurasia and Africa," as opposed to the Americas, is by 1877. The noun phrase Old World in this sense is by 1590s. The division of the earth into Old World and New World among Europeans dates to 1503 and Italian explorer Amerigo Vespucci's use of Latin Mundus Novus for the lands of the western hemisphere found by Columbus and others, indicating they were not part of Asia.
The Known World is usually divided into four Parts, Europe, Asia, Africk and America. But it is a most unequal Division, and I think it more rational to divide it thus. Viz. the Known World, first into two Parts, the Old and the New World; then the Old World into three, Europe, Asia, and Africa; and the New into two, the Northern and Southern America. [Guy Miege, "A New Cosmography, or Survey of the Whole World," London, 1682]
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: Perhaps Dr. Wesley Muhammad is referring to a non-Western map?
this wiki page which I cannot put up the URLe has some Islamic and Chinese maps included
"Early world maps"
That is because you are no academic. Academics in certain fields have access to certain libraries. My best guess is that he had access to certain old maps.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Different imgs Different provenance
Palace of Zimri Lim Room 132 Palace of Zimri Lim Court 106
The former scene is not [in] the latter.
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posted
interesting the reconstruction of the mural in room 132 is designated to a different provenance. It is called the Sacrifice of Water. Can't find the original. If you know of a book that has a n image I might me able to locate it even if offline. I don't want to post more about it in this thread. EM was talking about all blacks as "Asiatic" including those of Africa not specifically blacks of Asia, so this mural does not speak to that point
--the point of using "Asiatic" to describe Africans
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
You know, I lost 9/10ths of my library and I can't recall the name of the book on Mesopotamian art w/t zoom of the white fisherman.
Sorry only meant to correct misinterpretations already posted in this thread about the two murals.
Agreed, it's way off topic.
= = = = =
TH EM's Asiatic Blackman is simply internal religious stuff. All nations have a national mythology, part fact part fiction. Not taken seriously by any outside the group nor meant to. His ABM was straight haired until entering "the jungles of Africa".
Keep in mind the 30's to 50's mainstream anthropology which did advocate an Asian origin of Africa's blacks.
Yes self-hate re nappy hair was retained but softened since bad hair Originals have good hair parentage and it's from environment not a curse. Self-hate is also evident in the Tarzan movie image of Africa. These were/are the two big shames of the coloured/negro Americans.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: You're welcome.
Tightening up the backstroke
Airtight agenda
I've noticed that real images of the "Palace of Zimri Lim Room 132" is hard to find. I know someone had I posted before on ES.
Whereas Palace of Zimri Lim Court 106 easily to find. It literately the first thing that comes up. I my quest I did find other interesting stuff, like The Hittite four-handled large terracota vase.
I also found more on the "crescent and star" at Mesopotamia. I will post this later, if time suites it.
It all in line with the teachings by Elijah Muhammad.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: You know, I lost 9/10ths of my library and I can't recall the name of the book on Mesopotamian art w/t zoom of the white fisherman.
I traced to image back to Near Eastern Archeology, "The Palace of Zimri-Lim at Mari", Volume 47, Number 2 | June 1984, by Marie-Henriette Gates
Cited by: Sally Dunham. (1988) Journal of Near Eastern Studies 47:3, 210-214.
Or is it perhaps one of these following? Mission Archéologique de Mari 4 vols. in 6. Volume I: Le Temple D'Ishtar. Volume II : Le Palais. Part 1: Architecture. Part 2: Peintures Murales. Part 3: Documents et monuments. Volume III: Les Temples D'Ishtarat et de Ninni-Zaza. Volume IV: Le trésor d'Ur (complete set)?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
no more posts on Mesopotamia here please. The topic in this thread is Elijah Muhammad and Noble Drew Ali preferring to call Africans "Asiatic".
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: no more posts on Mesopotamia here please. The topic in this thread is Elijah Muhammad and Noble Drew Ali preferring to call Africans "Asiatic".
Ignorance is bliss, do you agree? lol
quote: Star and crescent
The star and crescent is an iconographic symbol used in various historical contexts, […]
It is the conjoined representation of a crescent and a star, both elements have a long prior history in the iconography of the Ancient Near East as representing either the Sun and Moon or the Moon and Morning Star (or their divine personifications). [...]
The star, or Sun, is often shown within the arc of the crescent (also called star in crescent, or star within crescent, for disambiguation of depictions of a star and a crescent side by side);[1] In numismatics in particular, the term crescent and pellet is used in cases where the star is simplified to a single dot.[2] [...]
Depiction of a star and crescent flag on the Saracen side in the Battle of Yarmouk (manuscript illustration of the History of the Tatars, Catalan workshop, early 14th century)
Coats of arms of the Three Magi, with "Baltasar of Tarsus" being attributed a star and crescent increscent in a blue field, Wernigerode Armorial (c. 1490)
posted
What you have there is a German coat of Arms. And is says "Baltasar of Tarsus" Tarsus is in Turkey however a German coats of Arms is in no way trying to represent Islam And Balthasar of the "The Three Magi", That is a biblical reference. Balthasaris traditionally referred to as the King of Arabia and gave the gift of myrrh to Jesus.
This has nothing to do with Islam
your other reference talks about how the symbol jumps from one culture to another starting with an Egyptian Hieroglyph but was a more common symbol in Mesopotamia. Then Byzantines, then Persians
quote: When Muslim Arabs conquered Persia in the seventh century, Sassanian coin designs were only preserved. The reformist caliph Abd al-Malik (r. 685-705 AD) would eventually replace the fire altar scene with Arabic, but the less offensive stars and crescents remained. Historians differ on the influence these coins had on symbol’s popularity with Muslims. Certainly the symbol received decades of exposure and was agreeable with later aniconism. The symbol later appears, perhaps independently, in Muslim art.
The question now is how the star and crescent emblem progressed from the margins of early Muslim coins to the flag of the Ottoman Empire? While Sassanian-style coins continued to spread into the Abbasid period, the symbol somewhat disappears until the early 14th century. From this time survives an illustration of the Battle of Yarmouk (636 AD) showing Muslim combatants under a star and crescent flag. By the 16th century the star and crescent was popular among Ottoman naval flags and also adorned the flags of the empire’s easternmost influence: the Aceh Sultanate in Indonesia. In the west, Bosnia also used the emblem at this time.
^^This is the sideways orientation of the crescent with 5 pointed star
not the more ancient one with the crescent on the bottom and star with 6-8 points
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: What you have there is a German coat of Arms. And is says "Baltasar of Tarsus" Tarsus is in Turkey however a German coats of Arms is in no way trying to represent Islam And Balthasar of the "The Three Magi", That is a biblical reference. Balthasaris traditionally referred to as the King of Arabia and gave the gift of myrrh to Jesus.
This has nothing to do with Islam
lol You are mixing and matching up things that you don't even understand. I suggest you first go read to basics about theology and linguistics. Let alone the NOI. lol __________________________________________ lioness: no, this thread is about NOI doctrine as stated by Elijah Muhammad, not about general theology and linguistics. It's not that hard to quote the Lessons or Elijah Muhammad. You are the one mixing up things. The topic is the Nation of Islam. That has noting to do with German Coats of Arms which make reference to the Magi of the Bible. It has to do with the symbol strictly as the Muslims used it. Europeans using images of Moors represent in some cases reference to the Magi and in other cases victory of Christians over Muslims and that is the last connotation that the NOI would refer to.
[ 22. February 2020, 03:26 AM: Message edited by: the lioness, ]
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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The Flag of Islam with the symbols of the Sun, Moon, and the Stars, represent the Universe and is also a Banner of Universal peace and Harmony. Our Holy Temples of Islam were established in America as sanctuaries of peace and higher learning into the Knowledge of the Oneness of God. Our schools are called Universities of Islam and teach the higher meaning of Islam which is Mathematics.
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