...
EgyptSearch Forums Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» EgyptSearch Forums » Deshret » Diop's Melanin Dosage Test Criticism

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Diop's Melanin Dosage Test Criticism
Baalberith
Ungodly and Satanic Entity
Member # 23079

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Baalberith     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am wondering if anybody can dissect any erroneous criticism of Cheikh Anta Diop's Melanin Dosage Test from this old pseudo Blog, if there are any?

quote:
The claim that egyptologists made the specimens with the most Negroid traits disappear is not only insulting to archaeologists but also put forth without any evidence and little practical credibility because all materials exhumed in an excavation are systematically recorded before numerous witnesses. It is equally fanciful to claim that the mummy of Ramses II, which was the subject of thorough studies in Paris, became yellow after being irradiated. Tests had been done previously on diverse mummified tissues to make sure that irradiation, the only way to sterilize the colonies of mold that were invading the skin, would do no damage. If the skin tone changed it was solely due to a cleansing of the surface. In fact, most of the mummies are coated with a tar (bitumen from Mesopotamia), which seriously constrains their examination, by the naked eye.

This is why a histological examination of skin to measure the amount of melanin is necessary. Unfortunately Diop’s (1973) article sheds no light on this. In fact in twelve pages of text and sixty references only three lines deal with the results: “We can affirm that such an examination reveals, with no doubt possible, an amount of melanin which is unknown among the “leucoderm” races and which indubitably places the ancient Egyptians among the Africans of Black Africa.” This is followed by long digressions on prehistory as well as biochemistry in a scientific jargon, which is highly documented but fails to mask the absence of results. No histological illustrations, a sketch of quantification, comparative examinations of skin with different stages of tanning, or reference to other studies of mummies (European, Peruvian, etc.) are provided. Cheikh Anta had photographs about his work circulated at the Cairo Colloquium (UNESCO 1980, p. 799); unfortunately no trace of these remains in any publication and it should all be repeated more rigorously. The Rabino-Massa team (1972, 1981) went much further, but skin of the mummies, unlike the internal tissues, is often altered by baths of the preserving liquids. Moreover, as Szabo (1975) points out, “light microscopic sections from a dark Mediterranean skin can be very similar to those from a Negroid skin,” thus more refined techniques such as electronic microscopy should be employed"

Source: https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/tag/afrocentrism/
Posts: 331 | From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2019  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Baalberith
Ungodly and Satanic Entity
Member # 23079

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Baalberith     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I was able to find where the entire quote on an old thread here on Egyptsearch. Are there any reliable references that contradicts this assertion that Diop's results on the mummies were inconclusive and weak?

quote:
Robins, A. H. 1991. Biological Perspectives on Human Pigmentation. Cambridge: Cambridge Univ. Press.

Robins (1991: 98-113) discusses the measurement of skin color. The method used since 1926 is reflectance spectrometry. The most commonly used machine is the "EEL Reflectance Spectrophotometer." The other is the Photovolt Reflectance Spectrophotometer. These two are different and the results are not comparable. What did Diop use?

3) The % reflectance is plotted vs. wavelength between 425nm and 685nm to produce spectral curves that can be compared to those of known populations. To do so measurements are done in specific places (forehead and inner upper arm). Did Diop do this? What population did he compare his skin reflectance curve with? Spectral curves differ between "Caucasoids" and "Negroids" only between 300 - 1200 nm, above and below there is no difference. What wavelengths did Diop use?

The reason I raise the questions because just testing reflectance without doing spectral curves does not show that the low reflectance is due to melanin.

Actually the questions were redundant because Diop did not even try them, instead he used a very questionable approach and actually never produced any data-- just an assertion as to the results. what follows is the total amount of information produced:

Diop's 1973 paper (p. 515-516) says (my translation)

"We then applied the method to several Egyptian mummies preserved in the Anthropology Laboratory of the Musee de l'Homme in Paris. Thanks to the kindness of Mrs. Chamla, Head of the Department and of her aides. We used the technique of thin slices observed by ultraviolet or natural light; the preparations were graciously mounted by Mrs. J.Guillen, technician at the Physiology Laboratory of the Faculte de Science de Dakar and Mr.Mamadou Cissé, Head of the Department of Vertebrates of the IFAN. The results speak for themselves; one can ascertain that, contrary to every widespread opinion, (1), the mummification processes do not destroy the epidermis to the point that the method would be inapplicable in most cases. In particular, it would certainly permit the analysis of the skin of all of the royal mummies of the Museum of Cairo which are in a perfect state of conservation; Thutmoses III founder of the 18th Dynasty the conqueror of all of Western Asia, Seti I the founder of the 19th dynasty, his son the famous Ramses II, etc. The result is worth the effort and this is the reason why I tried to obtain samples to analyze. The curator of the Cairo Museum, Dr. Ryad, had promised to send some to me, but I have been waiting for over a year.
It is surprising that such an analysis has not long ago been attempted and carried out by other researchers. We can affirm that such an examination reveals, with no doubt possible, an amount of melanin which is unknown among the "leucoderm" [white] races and which indubitably places the ancient Egyptians among the Africans of Black Africa."

That's the total amount of evidence. No data is presented to justify the conclusion that is stated baldly. (remember assertion is not evidence).

Alain Froment has remarked on the need for further evidence

Alain Froment, 1991. "Origine et evolution de l'Homme dans la Pensée de Cheikh Anta Diop: une Analyse Critique," Cahiers d'Etudes Africaines. XXXI-1-2: 29-64.

"p. 44-45. Autopsies of mummies
In mummies, despite the desiccation, the characteristics of the face are partially preserved which offers a tremendous advantage over a bare skeleton. Their scientific examination and histological study goes back to the beginning of the century but people became interested has again because of new investigatory techniques (Cockburn & Cockburn 1980). The exceptionally dry climate of Egypt allows, besides embalmed bodies, the recovery of buried cadavers whose skin is intact going back five thousand years. Thus there is in the Nile Valley an exceptionally long continuity of specimens available for extensive biological investigations.

The claim that Egyptologists made the specimens with the most Negroid traits disappear is not only insulting to archaeologists but also put forth without any evidence and little practical credibility because all materials exhumed in an excavation are systematically recorded before numerous witnesses. It is equally fanciful to claim that the mummy of
Ramses II, which was the subject of thorough studies in Paris, became yellow after being irradiated. Tests had been done previously on diverse mummified tissues to make sure that irradiation, the only way to sterilize the colonies of mold that were invading the skin, would do no damage. If the skin tone changed it was solely due to a cleansing of the surface. In fact, most of the mummies are coated with a tar (bitumen from Mesopotamia) that seriously constrains their examination by the naked eye.

This is why a histological examination of skin to measure the amount of melanin is necessary. Unfortunately Diop's (1973) article sheds no light on this. In fact in twelve pages of text and sixty references only three lines deal with the results: "We can affirm that such an examination reveals, with no doubt possible, an amount of melanin which is unknown
among the "leucoderm" races and which indubitably places the ancient Egyptians among the Africans of Black Africa." This is followed by long digressions on prehistory as well as biochemistry in a scientific jargon that is highly documented but fails to mask the absence of results. No histological illustrations, a sketch of quantification, comparative
examinations of skin with different stages of tanning, or reference to other studies of mummies (European, Peruvian, etc.) are provided. Cheikh Anta had photographs about his work circulated at the Cairo Colloquium (UNESCO 1980, p. 799); unfortunately no trace of these remains in any publication and it should all be repeated more rigorously. The
Rabino-Massa team (1972, 1981) went much further, but baths of the preserving liquids often alter the skin of the mummies, unlike the internal tissues. Moreover, as Szabo (1975) points out, "light microscopic sections from a dark Mediterranean skin can be very similar to those from a Negroid skin," thus more refined techniques such as electronic microscopy should be employed"

Actually the whole thing is a charade and moot because just the mummification process with natron can take a white person to that color. So, that the color of a mummy says nothing about the original coloration of the subject. See M. R. Zimmerman, B. Brier, and R.S. Wade. 1998. "Brief communication: Twentieth Century Replication of an Egyptian Mummy: Implications for Paleopathology," American Journal of Physical Anthropology 107: 417-420.

"Removal of the natron revealed a body appearing very similar to an ancient mummy. The skin was dried and dark brown, almost black."

Old Thread: http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=004985
Posts: 331 | From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2019  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rain King
STAY BANNED!
Member # 23236

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Rain King         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There was never anything wrong with it. In fact a German study replicated the process two decades later, and proved that the melanin content of Kemetic nobles were in line with "Negroid" people.

Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and
staining methods for histological and
immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft
tissues

A-M Mekota1, M Vermehren
Department of Biology I, Biodiversity Research/Anthropology1and Department of Veterinary Anatomy II2,
Ludwig-Maximilians University Munich, Germany
Submitted January 8, 2002; revised May 4, 2004; accepted August 12, 2004

Abstract
During an excavation headed by the German Institute for Archaeology, Cairo, at the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt, three types of tissues from different mummies were
sampled to compare 13 well known rehydration methods for mummified tissue with three newly
developed methods. Furthermore, three fixatives were tested with each of the rehydration fluids.
Meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and a placenta were used for this study. The rehydration and
fixation procedures were uniform for all methods.

Materials and methods
In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology
headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles
in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three
types of tissues were sampled from different
mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and
placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the
mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approxi-
mately 1550-1080 BC).

Skin
Skin sections showed particularly good tissue
preservation, although cellular outlines were never distinct. Although much of the epidermis had
already separated from the dermis, the remaining
epidermis often was preserved well (Fig. 1).

The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin.
In the dermis, the hair follicles, hair, and sebaceous and sweat glands were readily apparent (Fig. 2). Blood vessels, but no red blood cells, and small peripheral nerves were identified unambiguously (Fig. 3). The subcutaneous layer showed loose connective tissue fibers attached to the dermis, and fat cell remnants were observed.
To evaluate the influence of postmortum tissue
decay by micro-organisms, the samples were
tested for the presence of fungi using silver
staining.

Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7Á/13

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=005362

Posts: 160 | From: Ga | Registered: Jun 2020  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
zarahan aka Enrique Cardova
Member
Member # 15718

Icon 1 posted      Profile for zarahan aka Enrique Cardova     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
OP said:
The claim that Egyptologists made the specimens with the most Negroid traits disappear is not only insulting to archaeologists but also put forth without any evidence and little practical credibility because all materials exhumed in an excavation are systematically recorded before numerous witnesses..

Absolutely correct. It is insulting that anyone would think of such a thing.
Its only crazed Afrocentrics who keep on hollering about
non-existent "bias"... Credible scientists show no such nonsense..
As can be seen below in peer-reviewed research, there is little credibility
to such claims and remains were systematically recorded by fine
white scholars, ensuring compleat objectivity..

---------------------------------------------------------------


 -

Recap:
Scholar SOY Keita on skewed/biased archaeology methods that
"reclassified" tropical African samples as something else.

 -

"Analyses of Egyptian crania are numerous. Vercoutter (1978) notes that ancient Egyptian crania have frequently all been lumped (implicitly or explicitly) as Mediterranean, although Negroid remains are recorded in substantial numbers by many workers... "Nutter (1958), using the Penrose statistic, demonstrated that Nagada I and Badari crania, both regarded as Negroid, were almost identical and that these were most similar to the Negroid Nubian series from Kerma studied by Collett (1933). [Collett, not accepting variability, excluded "clear negro" crania found in the Kerma series from her analysis, as did Morant (1925), implying that they were foreign..."
(S. Keita (1990) Studies of Ancient Crania From Northern Africa. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 83:35-48)

--------------------
Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began..

Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Baalberith
Ungodly and Satanic Entity
Member # 23079

Rate Member
Icon 14 posted      Profile for Baalberith     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Interesting rebuttal, Rain King.
Posts: 331 | From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2019  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Baalberith
Ungodly and Satanic Entity
Member # 23079

Rate Member
Icon 10 posted      Profile for Baalberith     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes, they were very objective compared to the moody bad Afrocentrists. This just show how much they love to play semantics.
Posts: 331 | From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2019  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | EgyptSearch!

(c) 2015 EgyptSearch.com

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3