posted
According to an interview with a black woman who grew up in the Third Reich, she and her family were treated better than the Jews she knew. Admittedly, she was also discriminated against, for example she was not allowed to enter higher education or visit certain sporting events. But her mother was allowed to keep her business, the family's assets were not confiscated, and no one in her family was taken away to be put in concentration camps, as happened to a Jewish family she knew. Blacks were not allowed to marry whites, but on the other hand they were allowed to live together, and even have children without facing reprisals.
After the war, she married a black American and moved to the United States. There she discovered that the hostility towards Black people was worse, with, among other things, lynchings and a lot of segregation. And also in USA there were anti-miscegenation laws.
Interview with a black woman who grew up in Nazi Germany:
posted
^ This issue was discussed before-- Black Nazis.
Unfortunately there are many fallacies in regards to Hitler and the 3rd Reich. One of them is that Hitler and the Nazis were anti-black. What's funny is that how could they, when black people were never an "issue" in Germany they way they were in America? Also, the reason why Hitler and the Nazis were anti-Jewish was because most of the leading communists were Jews, and they were the ones running the Weimar Republic that ruined the German economy and corrupted the cultural morals.
Of course not all Jews were communists, but the Reich did not have the time or resources to search them out so Hitler's 'Final Solution' was to just get rid of Jews altogether to save the German Reich. Hitler actually preferred expulsion to extermination and he actually made a deal with Zionists to expel them to Palestine in what is known as the 'Exchange Agreement' which is why there are Israeli coins that feature Adolph Hitler and the swastika. Unfortunately there were acts of extermination carried out in Jewish villages and provinces especially in the Balkans by Muslim S.S. units. Of course there was a racial element involved where Jews even if 'white' had Semitic ancestry and this racial ancestry was used to explain their "deviant" behavior. To prevent further infiltration by communists, the Nazis adopted the racial segregation laws of the U.S. like Jim Crow and applied it to Jews. To prepare them for their expulsion, many Jews were first isolated into ghettos and then transported to concentration camps. Most of the casualties in concentration camps were caused by the Allies who bombed railroads that hindered transportation of food and medical supplies during the war.
Posts: 26361 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:When Adolf Hitler and the Nazis came to power in 1933, there were several thousand Black people living in Germany. The Nazi regime discriminated against them because the Nazis viewed Black people as racially inferior. During the Nazi era (1933–1945), the Nazis used racial laws and policies to restrict the economic and social opportunities of Black people in Germany. They also harassed, imprisoned, sterilized, and murdered an unknown number of Black people.
And then we of course have Nazi propaganda art putting down Black people (examples here).
Obviously the Black population in Nazi Germany wouldn't have been large enough to have been a major focus like the Jews, Roma, etc., but it does indeed seem like the Nazis were anti-Black to some degree.
posted
One can compare with some of todays neo Nazis who still view Jews as the greatest threat against Western or European culture. But they have become somewhat divided concerning this issue since many today see Muslims as a much bigger threat. Also in the Israel Palestine conflict Neo nazis take different sides, some of them actually supporting Israel.
What concerning Blacks in Germany before and during the Nazi rule there had been anti black campaigns against the Black soldiers who were among the French troops that occupied the Rhine land after WWI. They were accused of raping German women and other atrocities, most which have been shown to be exaggerated.
Many mixed children came out of meetings between the French African soldiers (most from Senegal, but some also from Madagascar. There were also soldiers from Indochina) and German women.
The race mixing and the the presence of Black soldiers in the Rhine land was often called "the Black Shame" (Die schwarze Schande).
Wiki has a summary:
quote:The Black Horror on the Rhine was a moral panic aroused in Weimar Germany and elsewhere concerning allegations of widespread crimes, especially sexual crimes, committed by Senegalese and other African soldiers serving in the French Army during the French occupation of the Rhineland between 1918 and 1930. Die schwarze Schande or Die schwarze Schmach ("the Black Shame" or "the Black Disgrace") were terms used by right-wing press as German nationalist propaganda in opposition to these events. The colonial troops referred to were soldiers from Senegal, Indochina, and Madagascar. The majority of colonial African soldiers were accused of committing rape and mutilation against the German population by government propaganda and newspapers, despite a lack of complaints in the region itself. The campaign reached its peak between 1920 and 1923, but did not stop until 1930. Adolf Hitler blamed Jews for bringing the Senegalese into the Rhineland.
posted
One can also notice that not all Western countries have had anti-misgenetion laws in modern time. But USA had, South Africa (if one can call it a Western country), Australia and of course Nazi Germany. According to the woman in the OP mixed relationships between Black and White people seems mostly not have been punished, but they were not allowed to marry.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2730 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
| IP: Logged |
posted
Racism in Germany predates the 3rd Reich. It's roots go back to at least the 2nd Reich-- the German Empire specifically from Otto Von Bismark onward which was when scientific racism began to gain popularity. It was during that time that Germany colonized parts of Africa including Namibia which was the site of the first genocide of the 20th Century-- that of the Herero-Nama Genocide (1905) and not the Armenian Genocide (1915). The German colonists would not only seize territories of the natives but even steal their cattle. Of course the natives did not take this lying down but fought back fiercely and actually won (at first) despite the colonists having guns and cannons! In fact one of the greatest native military leaders was a female shaman (I forgot her name) but she was able to out-maneuver the German colonial forces every time. It were these military defeats that caused great embarrassment to the Germans for losing to "inferior negroes" which caused great resentment and hatred by German colonists. The tide of war quickly changed with the invention of the Gatling gun (the first machine gun) which the German colonists utilized. The natives were no match against this new technology and German colonial soldiers took their revenge on natives by using it on unarmed native villagers including women and children-- massacring many villages and settlements.
Only recently has Germany decided to pay Namibia €1.1 billion in reparations. Max Dashu posted an article on it here.
Posts: 26361 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes racism and colonial exploitation was a general trend in Europe and the Americas during that time. Certain other colonial endeavors also had strong elements of genocide. Well known examples are King Leopold's Congo, 1885-1908, with millions of dead, or the Rubber boom in Putumayo, Peru, 1879 to 1912, where thousands of Native Americans were held as slaves and forced to extract rubber. Interestingly in these two cases it was an Irishman, Roger Casement who exposed and publicized these atrocities writing reports about them.
In Belgium they have not yet come to terms with their past in the Congo, and in Peru none of the leaders of the rubber extraction was ever brought to justice.
quote: Racism in Germany predates the 3rd Reich. It's roots go back to at least the 2nd Reich-- the German Empire specifically from Otto Von Bismark onward which was when scientific racism began to gain popularity. It was during that time that Germany colonized parts of Africa including Namibia which was the site of the first genocide of the 20th Century-- that of the Herero-Nama Genocide (1905) and not the Armenian Genocide (1915). The German colonists would not only seize territories of the natives but even steal their cattle. Of course the natives did not take this lying down but fought back fiercely and actually won (at first) despite the colonists having guns and cannons! In fact one of the greatest native military leaders was a female shaman (I forgot her name) but she was able to out-maneuver the German colonial forces every time. It were these military defeats that caused great embarrassment to the Germans for losing to "inferior negroes" which caused great resentment and hatred by German colonists. The tide of war quickly changed with the invention of the Gatling gun (the first machine gun) which the German colonists utilized. The natives were no match against this new technology and German colonial soldiers took their revenge on natives by using it on unarmed native villagers including women and children-- massacring many villages and settlements.
That is very much true. The Herero-Nama genocide is one of those atrocities of history that you don't hear nearly enough about.
quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: According to an interview with a black woman who grew up in the Third Reich, she and her family were treated better than the Jews she knew. Admittedly, she was also discriminated against, for example she was not allowed to enter higher education or visit certain sporting events. But her mother was allowed to keep her business, the family's assets were not confiscated, and no one in her family was taken away to be put in concentration camps, as happened to a Jewish family she knew. Blacks were not allowed to marry whites, but on the other hand they were allowed to live together, and even have children without facing reprisals.
After the war, she married a black American and moved to the United States. There she discovered that the hostility towards Black people was worse, with, among other things, lynchings and a lot of segregation. And also in USA there were anti-miscegenation laws.
Interview with a black woman who grew up in Nazi Germany:
Were black peoples treated better in Nazi Germany than Jews?
Where black people treated better in Hitler´s Germany than in USA?
The number of blacks in Nazi Germany was probably too small for the race purifiers to mount any kind of significant hate campaign. There were millions of Slavs and Jews to "process" first, but no doubt as the "new order" started running low on victims, the blacks would have joined others on the death trains. But your info is somewhat surprising, considering that the Nazis wiped out thousands of white kids who happened to be handicapped as a preliminary to greater "cleansing" operations. Re the Jews, anti-Bolshevism played a significant part- justified by the Nazis who claimed heavy Jewish involvement in communism, particularly as the intellectuals and foot-soldiers of the mass killing aiding the atrocities of Bolshevism. True, individual Jewish involvement was significant, but then again the majority of the perps in Russian bolshevism, intellectuals or foot-soldiers, where white Russians, not Jews. On top of this would be traditional anti-semitic hostility against Jewish prosperity and intellectualism.
It should be noted also that black soldiers fighting for France in the early phases of WWII were treated more harshly and cruelly than whites when captured.
"Blitzkrieg's real victor in 1940 was National Socialism. Hitler celebrated the successes of May and June in Nazi terms: as a triumph of will, informed by a consciousness of martial superiority that in turn depended on the racial superiority evoked and refined by the Third Reich. In that context, blitzkrieg played a central, arguably essential role in the "exterminatory warfare” that was Nazi Germany's true contribution to modern war making. Some forewarning was given by the treatment of the West African troops the French deployed in large numbers during the campaign's second half. The atrocities had historical roots: fear and resentment generated by French use of African "savages” in 1870 and 1914-18... After all allowances are made there is nevertheless no question that German soldiers, including men from the mobile divisions, disproportionately refused quarter to black combatants, disproportionately singled out black prisoners for brutal treatment including large-scale executions in non-combat situations, and justified themselves on racial grounds." (Dennis Showalter - Hitler's Panzers_ The Lightning Attacks that Revolutionized Warfare)[24]
Thus while the tiny number of black civilians may have had it a little better, heaven help you if you were a black fighting man. Some French reports claim an "indescribable rage" from German troops when they fought the black units, with no quarter given, compared to the white, a pattern contributing to far higher casualty rates among the Negro units than other French forces.[26] Raffael Scheck. 2005. The Killing of Black Soldiers from the French Army by the "Wehrmacht" in 1940: The Question of Authorization. German Studies Review. Vol. 28, No. 3 (Oct., 2005), pp. 595-606
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5919 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ This issue was discussed before-- Black Nazis.
Unfortunately there are many fallacies in regards to Hitler and the 3rd Reich. One of them is that Hitler and the Nazis were anti-black. What's funny is that how could they, when black people were never an "issue" in Germany they way they were in America? Also, the reason why Hitler and the Nazis were anti-Jewish was because most of the leading communists were Jews, and they were the ones running the Weimar Republic that ruined the German economy and corrupted the cultural morals.
Of course not all Jews were communists, but the Reich did not have the time or resources to search them out so Hitler's 'Final Solution' was to just get rid of Jews altogether to save the German Reich. Hitler actually preferred expulsion to extermination and he actually made a deal with Zionists to expel them to Palestine in what is known as the 'Exchange Agreement' which is why there are Israeli coins that feature Adolph Hitler and the swastika. Unfortunately there were acts of extermination carried out in Jewish villages and provinces especially in the Balkans by Muslim S.S. units. Of course there was a racial element involved where Jews even if 'white' had Semitic ancestry and this racial ancestry was used to explain their "deviant" behavior. To prevent further infiltration by communists, the Nazis adopted the racial segregation laws of the U.S. like Jim Crow and applied it to Jews. To prepare them for their expulsion, many Jews were first isolated into ghettos and then transported to concentration camps. Most of the casualties in concentration camps were caused by the Allies who bombed railroads that hindered transportation of food and medical supplies during the war.
Its not a fallacy to say Hitler and his boys were anti-black. His propaganda and policies show it, and the treatment of black troops more atrociously per above show it. Hitler didn't turn his full force on the blacks because their small numbers didn't matter much as civilians. But when there were blacks who dared to confront his Nazi troops as soldiers- head to head, no mercy was shown. Black civilians mayhaps also were not immediately liquidated because perhaps Hitler needed a propaganda angle as regards treatment under his regime versus the USA. It is a little known fact that in WWII, the Germans made good propaganda in contrasting the hypocrisy of Americans who mistreated blacks, while lecturing the Germans on mistreating other people. The Japanese also made the same arguments as part of their propaganda line in Ww2. These gambits may have played a part in the grudging concessions given to African-Americans during WW2, although of course labor shortages, and pressure from black activists like A Philip Randolph, who threated an embarrassing March on Washington, capital of the supposed top leader in democratic freedom and fairness, played a more immediate and greater role. Randolph shrewdly leveraged the various angles to make his case, and threat.
Most of the casualties in concentration camps were caused by the Allies who bombed railroads that hindered transportation of food and medical supplies during the war.
What camps are you talking about- general slave labor or extermination death camps?
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5919 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP: [QUOTE] The Herero-Nama genocide is one of those atrocities of history that you don't hear nearly enough about.
WHat is also little known is that the GErmans carried out extensive rapes and abuse of Herrero women. But of course Hitler and his regime seldom mentioned such things, another indicator of how anti-black they were.
---------------------------------------------------------------- Namibia: Herero women challenge German amnesia
Germans butchered somewhere between 50 and 80% of the Herero population in a mere four years, and Herero women were special targets. Germany used a Herero uprising to justify the "streams of blood" program of annihilation. That uprising was partly inspired by Herero resentment at German sexual violence against Herero women.
In 1903, after 20 years of colonization, 712 European women lived among 3,970 European men in German South-West Africa. What to do? Rape. Although rape by German men of Herero and Nama women was common, prior to 1904 not a single case of a white man raping an African woman came before a German court.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5919 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
^^ So it is rather ironic that the Germans accused African soldiers in the Rhineland of rape as a part of their propaganda about the "Black shame".
However, investigations showed that the number of rapes carried out by African soldiers against German women were few. The mixed-race children born were almost always the product of consensual relationships.
quote:The Allen Report
After the campaign with its negrophobic propaganda, the US State Department commissioned a report from General Henry Tureman Allen, commander of the Allied occupation forces in Germany. It drew the following conclusions in February 1921:
-The number of French soldiers of "pure or impure black blood" was estimated at 20,000. The last Senegalese left Germany in June 1920. By that date only one Malagasy regiment remained.
-66 cases of rape of German women were reported to the French authorities. 38 are considered proven. 32 were under investigation at the time of the report.
-Although the number of cases is probably underestimated, the mass rape hypothesis formulated by the German right-wing press is in fact false and turns out to be a propaganda campaign mainly aimed at American public opinion. The purpose of this campaign was to create a rift between the French and American allies.
-Speaking of the large number of mixed children: an average of one child per black soldier during an 18-month presence, a result of real attraction between some German women and black soldiers
Quote: Many German women of loose character have openly made advances to the colored soldiers
posted
When concerning interracial relationships one can also notice that the American authorities did not encourage such, not even between Black American soldiers and allies during WWII as the incident at Bamber bridge in Lancashire, in Northern England in 1943 shows:
Hitler believed Germany needed racial purity and that Jews were a mixed people who encouraged racial mixing
from a Nazi film, it says "the Jew is a Bastard" meaning mixed here
Jewish Population before the Nazis 525,000 (8% of total) (many were also murdered in Nazi occupied Poland (3.3M) and other countries in addition to Germany)
Black population during Hitler's rule. 20,000- 25,000
Nazi Propaganda slide depicting friendship between an Aryan woman and a Black woman as a loss of racial pride. The caption reads, "The result/Racial pride fades."
________________________________
Also
The Romani Holocaust ("gypsies")
The Romani Holocaust or the Romani genocide[4] was the planned effort by Nazi Germany and its World War II allies and collaborators to commit ethnic cleansing and eventually genocide against European Roma and Sinti peoples during the Holocaust era.[5]
Under Adolf Hitler, a supplementary decree to the Nuremberg Laws was issued on 26 November 1935, classifying the Romani people (or Roma) as "enemies of the race-based state", thereby placing them in the same category as the Jews. Thus, the fate of the Roma in Europe paralleled that of the Jews in the Holocaust.[1]
Historians estimate that between 250,000 and 500,000 Romani and Sinti were killed by Nazi Germans and their collaborators—25% to over 50% of the estimate of slightly fewer than 1 million Roma in Europe at the time.[1] Later research cited by Ian Hancock estimated the death toll to be at about 1.5 million out of an estimated 2 million European Roma.[3]
An exhibition opened May 24, 1938, in Düsseldorf titled 'Degenerate Music' that aimed to galvanize public hatred of music deemed 'un-German' by the Nazis.
Posts: 43012 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: ^^ So it is rather ironic that the Germans accused African soldiers in the Rhineland of rape as a part of their propaganda about the "Black shame".
However, investigations showed that the number of rapes carried out by African soldiers against German women were few. The mixed-race children born were almost always the product of consensual relationships.
quote:The Allen Report
After the campaign with its negrophobic propaganda, the US State Department commissioned a report from General Henry Tureman Allen, commander of the Allied occupation forces in Germany. It drew the following conclusions in February 1921:
-The number of French soldiers of "pure or impure black blood" was estimated at 20,000. The last Senegalese left Germany in June 1920. By that date only one Malagasy regiment remained.
-66 cases of rape of German women were reported to the French authorities. 38 are considered proven. 32 were under investigation at the time of the report.
-Although the number of cases is probably underestimated, the mass rape hypothesis formulated by the German right-wing press is in fact false and turns out to be a propaganda campaign mainly aimed at American public opinion. The purpose of this campaign was to create a rift between the French and American allies.
-Speaking of the large number of mixed children: an average of one child per black soldier during an 18-month presence, a result of real attraction between some German women and black soldiers
Quote: Many German women of loose character have openly made advances to the colored soldiers
Good info. It needs to be known, for on various right wing websites they keep on repeating the same lies and propaganda re the black troops, who were no worse than their white counterparts.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5919 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
Hitler believed Germany needed racial purity and that Jews were a mixed people who encouraged racial mixing
from a Nazi film, it says "the Jew is Bastard" meaning mixed
Jewish Population before the Nazis 525,000 (8% of total) (many were also murdered in Nazi occupied Poland (3.3M) and other countries in addition to Germany)
Black population during Hitler's rule. 20,000- 25,000
Nazi Propaganda slide depicting friendship between an Aryan woman and a Black woman as a loss of racial pride. The caption reads, "The result/Racial pride fades."
________________________________
Also good info, for the arguments of the Fuehrer are essentially those of many of today's far rightists- with a few updates for the contemporary era. Re the photo of the 2 women the contrary could be asserted. The "Aryan" gal could still maintain race pride while desiring to "sample" the flip side. The two things are not necessarily incompatible. Many a racially proud German colonist in Namidia railed against the inferiority of "the negro" during the day, but had no problem "sampling" at night. without any pride loss. To admit this however would render the Fuherer's argument hypocritical or contradictory.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5919 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
01/09/2021January 9, 2021 Starting in 1937, healthy German children were forcibly sterilized for having mixed parentage. A DW documentary sheds light on their fate.
Josef Kaiser was 16 years old in 1937 when two Gestapo secret police picked him up and took him to the Ludwigshafen city hospital on the Rhine River. There he was sterilized against his will. His sister and hundreds of other young people suffered the same fate. Their only "flaw"? Being born of Afro-German parentage. A new DW documentary, Children of Shame, tells their story.
French colonial soldiers in the Rhineland
The heinous targeting of these children had its origins 17 years before when Allied forces occupied the Rhineland as part of the war reparations imposed on Germany under the Treaty of Versailles. Of the 100,000 soldiers sent by France in January 1920, about one-fifth were from French colonies including Senegal and Madagascar — where Josef's father was born.
After the loss of the German colonial territories, the presence of black soldiers in the Rhineland was perceived as a humiliation. With the active participation of state and civil organizations, a racist propaganda campaign was launched under the title "Die Schwarze Schmach" (the Black Shame). Via leaflets, pamphlets and articles, these colonial soldiers were portrayed as "savage beasts" who raped and murdered the civilian population.
A picture in the satirical German magazine 'Kladderadatsch' shows a 'savage black' French soldier taking off with a local white women
Deeply rooted racism The campaign's supporters were not exclusively from nationalist or conservative circles. Racism and eugenics were deeply rooted throughout German society. Social-Democratic party politicians such as President Friedrich Ebert or Foreign Minister Adolf Köster decried a portion of French troops from the "lowest cultural level" and described the deployment as a "spiritual crime" against the German people.
Caricature of a black 'monster' wearing a soldier's bag and cap takes off with a white woman Caricature of a black 'monster' wearing a soldier's bag and cap takes off with a white woman A picture in the satirical German magazine 'Kladderadatsch' shows a 'savage black' French soldier taking off with a local white womenImage: Universitätsbibliothek Heidelberg It was a politically-calculated move to use racism to discredit the Versailles Treaty that blamed Germany for World War I and exacted massive reparations. The hope was that international solidarity with Germany would be re-established based on common prejudices.
Defamatory articles about the colonial soldiers appeared worldwide, supported by propaganda material from the UK Foreign Office. For instance, British Labour MP Edmund Dene Morel falsely accused France of unleashing "savage blacks" and "primitive barbarians" on the German population, troops whose "unbridled bestiality" had resulted in numerous rapes.
Although this propaganda was slow to diminish, the hoped-for foreign policy benefits for Germany failed to materialize.
'White disgrace' Despite the racist propaganda, numerous love affairs blossomed between colonial soldiers and German women. This was an affront to nationalists who made the "desecration of the German woman" one of their fundamental themes. In the smear campaign, the female body symbolized the German national body and both had to be kept "pure."
The German propaganda machine reacted accordingly: Women who had relationships with soldiers of African heritage were denounced as dishonorable, a "white disgrace." And children from these unions were derisively called "Rhineland bastards."
These offspring grew up excluded. Their very existence and their darker skin color was a constant reminder to nationalists and revanchivists of their bitter defeat in the war, and of their defenselessness in the face of the Treaty of Versailles demands.
Forced sterilization under the Nazis As early as 1923, the Weimar Republic authorities began systematically registering these children. In 1927, a government official urged his superiors in the Ministry of Health to consider possibly sterilizing these children using "an entirely painless procedure."
Government heads refused because the legal framework rendered such coercive measures impossible. Furthermore, children with German mothers were still German citizens of the Republic.
However, when the National Socialists came to power in 1933, the registration of the children was extended. Some were measured and photographed as part of Nazi's racist eugenics program.
Following an order by Hitler in 1937, the Gestapo secret police established a "Sonderkommision 3" (Special Committee 3) that was eventually tasked with the illegal sterilization of the children. Some 436 cases were documented, while the number of unreported cases was far higher.
Doctors show no remorse A trial was conducted two years after the end of Nazi rule. Three doctors, all members of the National Socialist German Medical Association (NSDÄB), were accused of conducting the sterilizations. The charge was intentional bodily harm resulting in the loss of procreative capacity. None of the defendants demonstrated any remorse during the trial. In their defense, they merely argued that they had acted "on the orders of the Führer."
a tiled room with medical equipmenta tiled room with medical equipment Nazi doctors who sterilized children seamlessly reentered postwar German societyImage: DOCDAYS Productions GmbH Unsurprisingly, the prosecution was first suspended and later dropped altogether. The three defendants seamlessly reentered German postwar society; one was even elected chairman of the Saar Medical Association a few years later.
Their victims, however, would never live down the abuse they suffered as children. "I had no youth and, because of this operation, no future anymore," said Josef Kaiser.
This is a hideous topic, is depressing me Forgive me for that horrible poster but we should not forget these things so they don't happen again
Posts: 43012 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
It is interesting though that in the Rhineland before the Nazis and in Germany even during the Nazi regime there were German women and African, or mixed, men who dared to stand up against the prejudice and still have relationships as is told in the the OP. It seems not that lynchings in the American style of black men was common in Germany.
After WWII German women continued to meet and get children with Black men, Africans but also American soldiers. Even a notorius Nazi and war criminal like Amon Göth (who is depicted in Spielbergs film Schindlers list) had a daughter who got a child with an African man. That child came to know about her notorius grandfather first when she was an adult. It resulted in a book that she wrote called My Grandfather would have shot me.
quote:My Grandfather Would Have Shot Me: A Black Woman Discovers Her Family's Nazi Past (German release title: Amon. Mein Großvater hätte mich erschossen) is a memoir by German writer Jennifer Teege. It covers her discovery that her grandfather was Amon Göth, nicknamed the "Butcher of Płaszów" and famously depicted in Steven Spielberg's 1993 film Schindler's List. Teege was adopted and learned about her family history after reading a biography of her biological mother, Monika Hertwig
Jennifer Teague, 2013: My Grandfather Would Have Shot Me: A Black Woman Discovers Her Family's Nazi Past
posted
About sterilizations: One must be reminded of that it was not uncommon in the United States either. It also occurred in other European countries than Germany.
quote:The most significant era of eugenic sterilization was between 1907 and 1963, when over 64,000 individuals were forcibly sterilized under eugenic legislation in the United States. Beginning around 1930, there was a steady increase in the percentage of women sterilized, and in a few states only young women were sterilized. A 1937 Fortune magazine poll found that 2/3 of respondents supported eugenic sterilization of "mental defectives", 63% supported sterilization of criminals, and only 15% opposed both. From 1930 to the 1960s, sterilizations were performed on many more institutionalized women than men. By 1961, 61 percent of the 62,162 total eugenic sterilizations in the United States were performed on women. A favorable report on the results of sterilization in California, the state that conducted the most sterilizations (20,000 of the 60,000 that occurred between 1909 and 1960), was published in 1929 in book form by the biologist Paul Popenoe and was widely cited by the Nazi government as evidence that wide-reaching sterilization programs were feasible and humane -------- As a result of these new sterilization initiatives, though most scholars agree that there were over 64,000 known cases of eugenic sterilization in the U.S. by 1963, no one knows for certain how many compulsory sterilizations occurred between the late 1960s to 1970s, though it is estimated that at least 80,000 may have been conducted. A large number of those who were targets of coerced sterilizations in the later half of the century were African American, Hispanic, and Native American women. ---------- Sterilization of African American women Though it is unknown the exact number of African American women who were sterilized throughout the country in the 20th century, records from a few states offer some estimates. In the state of North Carolina, which was seen as having the most aggressive eugenics program out of the 32 states that had one, during the 45-year reign of the North Carolina Eugenics Board, from 1929 to 1974, a disproportionate number of those who were targeted for forced or coerced sterilization were black and female, with almost all being poor. Of the 7,600 women who were sterilized by the state between the years of 1933 and 1973, about 5,000 were African American. In light of this history, North Carolina became the first state to offer compensation to surviving victims of compulsory sterilization. Additionally, whereas African Americans made up just over 1% of California's population, they accounted for at least 4% of the total number of sterilization operations conducted by the state between 1909 and 1979. Overall, according to one 1989 study, 31.6% of African American women without a high school diploma were sterilized while only 14.5% of white women of the same educational status were sterilized. --------- Sterilization of Native American women An estimated 40% of Native American women (60,000–70,000 women) and 10% of Native American men in the United States underwent sterilization in the 1970s. A General Accounting Office (GAO) report in 1976 found that 3,406 Native American women, 3,000 of which were of childbearing age, were sterilized by the Indian Health Service (IHS) in Arizona, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and South Dakota from 1973 to 1976
posted
The point of your thread seems to be Americans are more racist against African Americans than Europeans but I don't think it's useful to make this kind of comparison. Without getting into if it's true or not it seems like redirecting attention. But look at Leopold in Congo and Herero and Nama genocide and then stop comparing.
I believe racism is a form of tribalism that becomes more oppressive when one group that holds power thinks another groups is becoming larger, more competitive with them or more powerful. Slavery was motivated by people selling other people to do labor not out of hate BUT racism and hate was used to try to make it seem like it was morally acceptable. And after black people were freed from slavery a different dynamic becomes more common, some whites felt threatened by potential from competition form black people so they lynched and segregated black people to try to restrain them by terror and keep them on a lower economic and political rung. So in the beginning it's greed based but then it shifts to more paranoia and fear in addition
The demographic balance does not always cause groups to do this but in comparing Germany and America, when Hitler was in power black people numbered 20-25,000 and were well under one percent of the total population of Germany between 70 and 80 million. In America at the time black people were were around 10%, huge difference and there were a lot of different circumstances. Comparatively in Europe today hate is stirring against immigrants and some people use racist ideas to try to justify it, so there is a similar dynamic. Jews in Germany at the time of Hitler were around 520,000 (but millions in Poland and elsewhere in Europe). They were already hated for being rebels since medieval times for not believing Jesus was the savior and were also read a lot of books and had intellectuals highly assimilated into German culture who could write opinionated articles. Dictators don't want that. Similarly Mao's cultural revolution. Hitler wanted a racially pure nation and moving toward that prioritized which groups were the biggest obstacles
quote:
Afro-Germans
History African-German interaction from 1600 to late 1800s
During the 1720s, Ghana-born Anton Wilhelm Amo was sponsored by a German duke to become the first African to attend a European university; after completing his studies, he taught and wrote in philosophy.[5] Later, Africans were brought as slaves from the western coast of Africa where a number of German estates were established, primarily on the Gold Coast. After King Friedrich Wilhelm I of Prussia sold his Ghana Groß Friedrichsburg estates in Africa in 1717, from which up to 30,000 people had been sold to the Dutch East India Company, the new owners were bound by contract to "send 12 negro boys, six of them decorated with golden chains," to the king. The enslaved children were brought to Potsdam and Berlin.[6]
Africans and German interaction between 1884 and 1945 See also: German Empire and German colonial empire
Paul Friedrich Meyerheim: In der Tierbude (In the menagerie), Berlin, 1894 At the 1884 Berlin Congo conference, attended by all major powers of the day, European states divided Africa into areas of influence which they would control. Germany controlled colonies in the African Great Lakes region and West Africa, from which numerous Africans migrated to Germany for the first time. Germany appointed indigenous specialists for the colonial administration and economy, and many young Africans went to Germany to be educated. Some received higher education at German schools and universities, but the majority were trained at mission training and colonial training centers as officers or domestic mission teachers. Africans frequently served as interpreters for African languages at German-Africa research centers, and with the colonial administration. Others migrated to Germany as former members of the German protection troops, the Askari.
The Afrikanisches Viertel in Berlin is also a legacy of the colonial period, with a number of streets and squares named after countries and locations tied to the German colonial empire. It is now home to a substantial portion of Berlin's residents of African heritage.
Interracial couples in the colonies were subjected to strong pressure in a campaign against miscegenation, which included invalidation of marriages, declaring the mixed-race children illegitimate, and stripping them of German citizenship.[7] During extermination of the Nama people in 1907 by Germany, the German director for colonial affairs, Bernhard Dernburg, stated that "some native tribes, just like some animals, must be destroyed".
posted
I think the OP shows, when the total picture is looked at, that US Blacks had it better than in Germany. The primary reason is that they had more options, compared to living under one unitary totalitarian state. In America it was easier to "opt away" from the worse situations versus the all-encompassing surveillance and oppressions of the Nazi regime. Hitler banned IR marriages, and while that was also so in many US states, in other states, about 20% of states allowed IR unions at the start of WW2. Not a lot, but that's 20% more options than under Nazism. The German bleks did not have property confiscated but then again this freedom was also available in America where blacks generally could own and keep property even in the Jim Crow south. There are other comparisons that could be made. Black sprinter Jesse Owens was allowed to run for America in the 1936 Olympiad, but hw would certainly not have been allowed to represent Germany under the Fuherer. America, wile full of problems, generally comes off looking better, compared to the Nazis. The OP also does not give many derails on actual black life under Nazism.. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/afro-germans-during-the-holocaust
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5919 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Consider also if black people in Germany at the time were 200,000 instead of 20,000.
Posts: 43012 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Lioness The point of your thread seems to be Americans are more racist against African Americans than Europeans but I don't think it's useful to make this kind of comparison. Without getting into if it's true or not it seems like redirecting attention. But look at Leopold in Congo and Herero and Nama genocide and then stop comparing.
I already mentioned Leopold in the thread and also other outbursts of racist exploitation like the Putumayo genocide.
As you say, it is hard to compare. The woman in the OP seems to have perceived America as similarly, or more racist against Black people than Germany. But she is only one voice. Both societies were racist in their own ways. But it is maybe not so meaningful and sit and compare statistics who sterilized most, who lynched most, who exterminated most or in which society interracial relationships were most or least accepted, and so on. I just found the OP interesting, but other black people may have very different experiences. The OP seems at least to have seen Jews as more oppressed based on her own experiences, and she seems to have become a bit surprised over the racism in USA. But racism can affect people differently in different societies and it can affect different groups in more than one way. It also varies over time.
One can of course compare racism, or no racism, in many countries and then one will see examples that could be rather bad, while racist practices in other countries were far lesser. Thus different European countries were also more or less racist depending on several reasons.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2730 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic