It's simple. Romans introduced written script all over Europe. This is why they use Roman icons in Germanic and Latin based languages. The first people who knew how to read and write were monks and aristocrats. The first books were bibles translated from Latin and later from Greek.
The Romans and Greeks were European
Yes, but there were NOT whites.
Yes they were. What do you imagine them to be?
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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It's simple. Romans introduced written script all over Europe. This is why they use Roman icons in Germanic and Latin based languages. The first people who knew how to read and write were monks and aristocrats. The first books were bibles translated from Latin and later from Greek.
The Romans and Greeks were European
Yes, but there were NOT whites.
white people with tans
Those whites that can tan are mixed race, but the Greeks and Romans were melanated people.
-------------------- “Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.” Posts: 195 | From: Southern Africa(Azania) | Registered: Mar 2017
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It's simple. Romans introduced written script all over Europe. This is why they use Roman icons in Germanic and Latin based languages. The first people who knew how to read and write were monks and aristocrats. The first books were bibles translated from Latin and later from Greek.
The Romans and Greeks were European
Yes, but there were NOT whites.
Yes they were. What do you imagine them to be?
They were melanated people, much like the Ethiopians etc.
-------------------- “Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.” Posts: 195 | From: Southern Africa(Azania) | Registered: Mar 2017
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It's simple. Romans introduced written script all over Europe. This is why they use Roman icons in Germanic and Latin based languages. The first people who knew how to read and write were monks and aristocrats. The first books were bibles translated from Latin and later from Greek.
quote:Firstly, E-M81 is the most common haplogroup in North Africa showing its highest concentrations in Northwestern Africa (76 % in Saharawis in Morocco (Arredi et al., 2004)) with cline frequencies decreasing eastward: Algeria (45 %), Libya (34 %) and Egypt (10 %) (Robino et al., 2008; Triki-Fendri et al., submitted; Arredi et al., 2004).
Besides, Ottoni et al., (2011) have reported that E-M81 appear to constitute a common paternal genetic matrix in the Tuareg populations where it was encountered at high frequency (89 %).
Hence, the distribution of this haplogroup in Africa closely matches the present area of Berber-speaking population’s allocation on the continent, suggesting a close haplogroup-ethnic group parallelism (Bosch et al., 2001; Cruciani et al., 2002; 2004; Arredi et al., 2004; Fadhlaoui-Zid et al., 2011; Bekada et al., 2013). However, knowing that the Berber dialects have been replaced by Arabic in North African populations, carriers of E-M81 haplogroup are currently Arab-speaking peoples whose ancestors were Berber-speaking.
Outside of Africa, E-M81 is almost absent in the Middle East and in Europe (with the exception of Iberia and Sicily). The presence of E-M81 in the Iberian Peninsula (12 % in southern Portugal) (Cruciani et al., 2004) has been attributed to trans-Mediterranean contacts linked to the Islamic influence, since it is typically Berber (Bosch et al., 2001; Semino et al., 2004; Beleza et al., 2006; Alvarez et al., 2009; Cruciani et al., 2007; Trombetta et al., 2011).
—S Triki-Fendri, A Rebai 2015
Synthetic review on the genetic relatedness between North Africa and Arabia deduced from paternal lineage distributions
quote:Originally posted by Cass/:
And there's not a European genetic cluster; Northern Europeans & Southern Europeans can also easily be distinguished into two separate groups based on autosomal DNA:
quote:Using a genome-wide single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) panel, we observed population structure in a diverse group of Europeans and European Americans. Under a variety of conditions and tests, there is a consistent and reproducible distinction between “northern” and “southern” European population groups: most individual participants with southern European ancestry (Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and Greek) have >85% membership in the “southern” population; and most northern, western, eastern, and central Europeans have >90% in the “northern” population group.
Exactly, or just an Ethiopian, Somalian or Dravidian group of people.
-------------------- “Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.” Posts: 195 | From: Southern Africa(Azania) | Registered: Mar 2017
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It's simple. Romans introduced written script all over Europe. This is why they use Roman icons in Germanic and Latin based languages. The first people who knew how to read and write were monks and aristocrats. The first books were bibles translated from Latin and later from Greek.
quote:Firstly, E-M81 is the most common haplogroup in North Africa showing its highest concentrations in Northwestern Africa (76 % in Saharawis in Morocco (Arredi et al., 2004)) with cline frequencies decreasing eastward: Algeria (45 %), Libya (34 %) and Egypt (10 %) (Robino et al., 2008; Triki-Fendri et al., submitted; Arredi et al., 2004).
Besides, Ottoni et al., (2011) have reported that E-M81 appear to constitute a common paternal genetic matrix in the Tuareg populations where it was encountered at high frequency (89 %).
Hence, the distribution of this haplogroup in Africa closely matches the present area of Berber-speaking population’s allocation on the continent, suggesting a close haplogroup-ethnic group parallelism (Bosch et al., 2001; Cruciani et al., 2002; 2004; Arredi et al., 2004; Fadhlaoui-Zid et al., 2011; Bekada et al., 2013). However, knowing that the Berber dialects have been replaced by Arabic in North African populations, carriers of E-M81 haplogroup are currently Arab-speaking peoples whose ancestors were Berber-speaking.
Outside of Africa, E-M81 is almost absent in the Middle East and in Europe (with the exception of Iberia and Sicily). The presence of E-M81 in the Iberian Peninsula (12 % in southern Portugal) (Cruciani et al., 2004) has been attributed to trans-Mediterranean contacts linked to the Islamic influence, since it is typically Berber (Bosch et al., 2001; Semino et al., 2004; Beleza et al., 2006; Alvarez et al., 2009; Cruciani et al., 2007; Trombetta et al., 2011).
—S Triki-Fendri, A Rebai 2015
Synthetic review on the genetic relatedness between North Africa and Arabia deduced from paternal lineage distributions
quote:Originally posted by Cass/:
And there's not a European genetic cluster; Northern Europeans & Southern Europeans can also easily be distinguished into two separate groups based on autosomal DNA:
quote:Using a genome-wide single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) panel, we observed population structure in a diverse group of Europeans and European Americans. Under a variety of conditions and tests, there is a consistent and reproducible distinction between “northern” and “southern” European population groups: most individual participants with southern European ancestry (Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and Greek) have >85% membership in the “southern” population; and most northern, western, eastern, and central Europeans have >90% in the “northern” population group.
Exactly, or just an Ethiopian, Somalian or Dravidian group of people.
-------------------- “Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.” Posts: 195 | From: Southern Africa(Azania) | Registered: Mar 2017
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It's also funny that whites want to be indigenous to all places on Earth. Heard from a friend they want the UN to classify them as indigenous to southern Africa. Is it certain genes that cause them to behave this way? <--- innocent question.
-------------------- “Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.” Posts: 195 | From: Southern Africa(Azania) | Registered: Mar 2017
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Bronze head from a statue of Rome’s first emperor Augustus. Found in Meroë, Sudan, made in 27–25 BC.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Bronze head from a statue of Rome’s first emperor Augustus. Found in Meroë, Sudan, made in 27–25 BC.
↑ this could be a Somalian, Ethiopian or Indian.
-------------------- “Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.” Posts: 195 | From: Southern Africa(Azania) | Registered: Mar 2017
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posted
Can I request that this thread be appropriately moved to the Kemet section, were this kind of discussion is more suited?
It started ok as a "PSA" of some sort by Djehuti but the conversation in general is not suitable for Egyptology IMO. There also have been more insightful on topic threads that have been moved since new management for comparison... It's only fair.
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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quote:These important differences have lead some, such as James Watson (1996), codiscoverer of the structure of DNA, to endorse eugenics, when free of bias and of state compulsion.
—Thomas C. Leonard
Retrospectives Eugenics and Economics in the Progressive Era
Journal of Economic Perspectives—Volume 19, Number 4—Fall 2005—Pages 207–224
Note: Watson, James D. 1996. “President’s Essay.” Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory. Annual Report, pp. 1–20.Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Bronze head from a statue of Rome’s first emperor Augustus. Found in Meroë, Sudan, made in 27–25 BC.
Meroë, Sudan was places with high priests, the head was placed there because he thought they could find a cure of his illness and pass it on trough the head, so he could heal. He himself actually never was there. This was the case with many of these Romans.
Nice try.
quote: Find out how this iconic bronze head of Rome’s first emperor Augustus became a symbol of African resistance in the ancient royal city of Meroë, in northern Sudan.
Ancient DNA results from Kush and the Tasian site of Kadruka (precusor to Badarian/Naqada):
From Genetic Patterns of Y-chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA Variation, with Implications to the Peopling of the Sudan (Hassan 2009)Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Bronze head from a statue of Rome’s first emperor Augustus. Found in Meroë, Sudan, made in 27–25 BC.
Meroë, Sudan was places with high priests, the head was placed there because he thought they could find a cure of his illness and pass it on trough the head, so he could heal. He himself actually never was there. This was the case with many of these Romans.
Nice try.
As usual you miss the point entirely. It's the head of the first Roman Emperor Augustus. The fact that it was found in Sudan is irrelevant, it is just basic information that should be given when you post a sculpture, title, date, location, etc
"Nice try" at showing what?
Your comment "Nice try" makes no sense.
It's a Roman sculpture of Augustus who was born in Rome, that is the point, he was a European and looks like one
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Bronze head from a statue of Rome’s first emperor Augustus. Found in Meroë, Sudan, made in 27–25 BC.
Meroë, Sudan was places with high priests, the head was placed there because he thought they could find a cure of his illness and pass it on trough the head, so he could heal. He himself actually never was there. This was the case with many of these Romans.
Nice try.
As usual you miss the point entirely. It's the head of the first Roman Emperor Augustus. The fact that it was found in Sudan is irrelevant, it is just basic information that should be given when you post a sculpture, title, date, location, etc
"Nice try" at showing what?
Your comment "Nice try" makes no sense.
It's a Roman sculpture of Augustus who was born in Rome, that is the point, he was a European and looks like one
"As usual you miss the point entirely."? lol Look who is talking.
So that's the reason why you've posted these images from "Europeans" when it came to Africans? Yeah, that's logic.
Nice try.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: "As usual you miss the point entirely."? lol Look who is talking.
So that's the reason why you've posted these images from "Europeans" when it came to Africans? Yeah, that's logic.
Nice try.
No I didn't post Europeans when it came to Africans. I posted a Roman when it was implied that the Romans were not Europeans or that they were some kind of mulattoes, that is BS except for a small few with partial North African ancestry
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: "As usual you miss the point entirely."? lol Look who is talking.
So that's the reason why you've posted these images from "Europeans" when it came to Africans? Yeah, that's logic.
Nice try.
No I didn't post Europeans when it came to Africans. I posted a Roman when it was implied that the Romans were not Europeans or that they were some kind of mulattoes, that is BS except for a small few with partial North African ancestry
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
_______ Juba II Numidian African
____________ Typical Euro-Roman
The Numidian differs from the European in all the stereotypical hair and facial features. The hair is thicker and "wilder."
same sculpture as above:
His nose and lips look partially African but your analysis of the hair is ridiulous and assumes all Europeans have neat straight hair. Arguing that a small minority of Africans might hair hair like Juba II here is one thing but to suggest that his hair here looks more African than European is pure silliness. Further, when people like the person below get very short hair cuts their hair appears a lot straighter because they have large curls and large curls need a certain amount of length to begin to form into recognizable curls.
If you looks at depictions of the Numidian kings on coins and so on (-ones in good condition not all worn down) you can easily tell they are not pure Africans, they have quite a bit of Greco-Roman admixture
^^^this guy's hair is closer to Beja than is that bronze of Juba II
So tell, who is that "guy"?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: "As usual you miss the point entirely."? lol Look who is talking.
So that's the reason why you've posted these images from "Europeans" when it came to Africans? Yeah, that's logic.
Nice try.
No I didn't post Europeans when it came to Africans. I posted a Roman when it was implied that the Romans were not Europeans or that they were some kind of mulattoes, that is BS except for a small few with partial North African ancestry
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: Yawn^ Now the people who have inhabited the Naqada region are all of a sudden unknown. lol sure!
posted
The following is very interesting, especially because Eugen Strouhal has some interesting data on the Abusir settlement, which I'll post at another time.
quote: flydesign52 Avatar Oct 4, 2016 19:28:25 GMT 2 flydesign52 said: Egyptology: Hanging in the Hair
Egyptology: Hanging in the Hair
by Anu M'bantu and Fari Supia
West Africa Magazine 8th July 2001
F0R YEARS, EGYPTOLOGY has been fighting a losing battle to hold onto an ancient Egypt that is Caucasian or, at worst, sun-tanned Caucasian. At the 1974 UNESCO conference Egyptology was dealt a fatal blow. Two African scholars wiped the floor with 18 world-renowned Egyptologists. They proved in 11 different categories of evidence that the ancient Egyptians were Africans (Black).
Following that beating, Egyptology has been on its knees praying to be saved by science. Their last glimmer of hope has been the hair on Egyptian mummies. The mummies on display in the world's museums exhibit Caucasoid-looking hair, some of it brown and blonde. These mummies include Pharaoh Seqenenre Tao of the 17th dynasty and the 19th dynasty's Rameses II. As one scholar put it: "The most common hair colour, then as now, was a very dark brown, almost black colour although natural auburn and even rather surprisingly blonde hair are also to be found." Many Black scholars try skillfully to avoid the hair problem. This is a mistake!
In 1914, a white doctor in Detroit initiated divorce proceeding against his wife whom he suspected of being a "closet Negro". At the trial, the Columbia University anthropologist, Professor Franz Boas (1858-1942), was called upon as a race expert. Boas declared: "If this woman has any of the characteristics of the Negro race it would be easy to find them . . . one characteristic that is regarded as reliable is the hair. You can tell by microscopic examination of a cross-section of hair to what race that person belongs." With this revelation, trichology (the scientific analysis of hair) reached the American public. But what are these differences?
The cross-section of a hair shaft is measured with an instrument called a trichometer. From this you can get measurements for the minimum and maximum diameter of a hair The minimum measurement is then divided by the maximum and then multiplied by a hundred. This produces an index. A survey of the scientific literature produces the following breakdown:
San, Southern African 55.O0 Zulu, Southern African 55.O0 Sub-Saharan Africa 60.O0 Tasmanian (Black) 64.70 Australian (Black) 68.00 Western European 71.20 Asian Indian 73.00 Navajo American 77.00 Chinese 82.60
In the early 1970s, the Czech anthropologist Eugen Strouhal examined pre-dynastic Egyptian skulls at Cambridge University. He sent some samples of the hair to the Institute of Anthropology at Charles University, Prague, to be analyzed. The hair samples were described as varying in texture from "wavy" to "curly" and in colour from "light brown" to "black". Strouhal summarized the results of the analysis: "The outline of the cross-sections of the hairs was flattened, with indices ranging from 35 to 65. These peculiarities also show the Negroid inference among the Badarians (pre-dynastic Egyptians)." The term "Negroid influence" suggests intermixture, but as the table suggests this hair is more "Negroid" than the San and the Zulu samples, currently the most Negroid hair in existence!
In another study, hair samples from ten 18th-25th dynasty individuals produced an average index of 51! As far back as 1877, Dr. Pruner-Bey analyzed six ancient Egyptian hair samples. Their average index of 64.4 was similar to the Tasmanians who lie at the periphery of the African-haired populations. A team of Italian anthropologists published their research in the Journal of Human Evolution in 1972 and 1980. They measured two samples consisting of 26 individuals from pre-dynastic, 12th dynasty and 18th dynasty mummies. They produced a mean index of 66.50 The overall average of all four sets of ancient Egyptian hair samples was 60.02. Sounds familiar . ., just check the table!
Since microscopic analysis shows ancient Egyptian hair to be completely African, why does the hair look Caucasoid? Research has given us the answers. Hair is made of keratin protein. Keratin is composed of amino acid chains called polypeptides. In a hair, two such chains are called cross-chain polypeptides. These are held together by disulphide bonds. The bulk of the hair, the source of its strength and curl, is called the cortex. The hair shafts are made of a protective outer layer called the cuticle.
We are informed by Afro Hair - A Salon Book, that chemicals for bleaching, penning and straightening hair must reach the cortex to be effective. For hair to be permed or straightened the disulphide bonds in the cortex must be broken. The anthropologist Daniel Hardy writing in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology, tells us that keratin is stable owing to disulphide bonds. However, when hair is exposed to harsh conditions it can lead to oxidation of protein molecules in the cortex, which leads to the alteration of hair texture, such as straightening.
Two British anthropologists, Brothwell and Spearman, have found evidence of cortex keratin oxidation in ancient Egyptian hair. They held that the mummification process was responsible, because of the strong alkaline substance used. This resulted in the yellowing and browning of hair as well as the straightening effect. This means that visual appearance of the hair on mummies cannot disguise their racial affinities.
The presence of blonde and brown hair on ancient Egyptian mummies has nothing to do with their racial identity and everything to do with mummification and the passage of time. As the studies have shown, when you put the evidence under a microscope the truth comes out. At last, Egyptology's prayers have been answered. It has been put out of its misery. Its tombstone reads Egyptology, R.I.P June 2001.
The above was very interesting, espesically because Strouhal has some interesting data on the Abusir settlement, which I post at another time.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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"The outline of the cross-sections of the hairs was flattened, with indices ranging from 35 to 65. These peculiarities also show the Negroid inference among the Badarians (pre-dynastic Egyptians)."
The term "Negroid influence" suggests intermixture, but as the table suggests this hair is more "Negroid" than the San and the Zulu samples, currently the most Negroid hair in existence!
In another study, hair samples from ten 18th-25th dynasty individuals produced an average index of 51! As far back as 1877, Dr. Pruner-Bey analyzed six ancient Egyptian hair samples. Their average index of 64.4 was similar to the Tasmanians who lie at the periphery of the African-haired populations(1).
A team of Italian anthropologists published their research in the Journal of Human Evolution in 1972 and 1980. They measured two samples consisting of 26 individuals from pre-dynastic, 12th dynasty and 18th dynasty mummies. They produced a mean index of 66.50...
[…]
"The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (see below). Sagittal plateau, rounded forehead with moderately projecting glabella; globular cranium with high vault. Protrusion of incisors, receding chin and steep mandible. Very vertical zygomatic arches and pronounced maxillary prognathism."-- X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980)
posted
Since people brought up the topic of ancient Rome...
Recently a prominent alt-right propagandist by the name of Paul Joseph Watson tweeted a complaint about the BBC's portrayal of the Roman Empire as having a diverse population, with some Africans present. He ended up earning himself a well-deserved Twitter storm, with plenty of people coming in to school him on the issue. It was beautiful. I can only hope Alex Jones will receive a similar education on Egypt someday.
As an aside, I'd be very interested in meeting some of these friends of DJ who have been out correcting people on the Egypt issue.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Getting back to my point. The problem is that you have Eurocentric agents working in news media outlets falsely representing scientific data in their twisted views. This is the infowars I am referring to. Yeah, there are Afrocentrics who do the same thing but they are fewer and farther in between and nobody takes them seriously and of course they don't work in any of the majore alternative media outlets that the Eurocentrics work in which give them more clout. This is why it is important that those of us in the know should actually contact these outlets to correct them!
Sure. It is a full fledged propaganda war. What irritates me at present is that too often, some blacks do not take the time to educate themselves on the issues, and build their knowledge accurately, but instead rely on simplistic memes and/or rhetoric. This is all well and good for "sound bite" FB posts or Tweets among their homies, in their own little venues, but it concedes the rest of the ground to the massive disinformation flow, posing as "objective" information. So rather than do a quick 3 minute Google search that can debunk numerous items 0f "fake news" you will find numerous people just sitting back, while just 1 or 2 carry the whole load. But hey- post some trivial video about some idiotic "beef" or "thugs," and behold, all these missing in action folk come out of the woodwork.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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^ By media outlets, I don't just mean Alex Jones' 'Info Wars' although there are a lot of people who follow Alex Jones. That's the problem. It is many 'alt-right' media outlets and even some outlets that are allegedly don't have any politial agendas. They are being flooded with Eurocentric spin on science new stories.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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That Ariana Grande has African admixture is no shock. I've heard a news story last year that she constantly relaxes and straight-irons her hair because her natural hair texture is as she herself calls it "ratchet" [sic] which I presume is her derrogatory term for kinky hair (?).
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: That Ariana Grande has African admixture is no shock. I've heard a news story last year that she constantly relaxes and straight-irons her hair because her natural hair texture is as she herself calls it "ratchet" [sic] which I presume is her derrogatory term for kinky hair (?).
First time I saw her on a tv-show over here, I honestly thought she was Afro-Cuban or something like that.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ By media outlets, I don't just mean Alex Jones' 'Info Wars' although there are a lot of people who follow Alex Jones. That's the problem. It is many 'alt-right' media outlets and even some outlets that are allegedly don't have any politial agendas. They are being flooded with Eurocentric spin on science new stories.
This also touches foreign newspapers. But most vividly the alt-right and affiliates run with it, of course. Regular folks don't even care.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by capra: Eh, well, bias, political pressure, even conspiracies do exist.
But to suppress a sample because you don't like the unexpected results - that means everyone in the lab colluding in scientific misconduct, and throwing out hard-earned and expensive results that could have got high-profile publications... for what?
yeah, I don't buy it. If they found frigging aliens or something - okay, yeah. But who the fuck cares if Natufians have Sub-Saharan African affinity or whatever? (Yeah, basement-dwelling nazis, no one cares what hurts their feelings.)
^Help me track down the mtDNA L candidates that some of these maps' pie charts are based on. If the mtDNA L candidates are identified as such, and not downplayed, obscured, or listed as an 'unknown', you're correct in saying that these researchers are indifferent about finding SSA ancestry. If there is something wrong with how the L candidates are assigned, then I'm correct, and it proves that aDNA researchers can be just as biased as online trolls who are distorting aDNA results.
BTW, I'm already familiar with the Portuguese aDNA listed on that map. It's apparently based on this:
Notice that the L candidates are misattributed as N*, when they should be categorized as L3(xR). So this paper is already illustrating my point. But you can still redeem your "conspiracy" claim if you can show that the Italian aDNA sample is properly attributed as an L candidate in the paper. Do you know what sample it is based on? I've searched for this Italian sample, but I can't find it.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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The first books were written by the ancient Egyptians, in 2400BC, which was the first people to developed paper made from papyrus plant. They also simultaneously developed the "ink" which they wrote on papyrus paper their cursive Hieratic written system, applied only to write science such as mathematics, biology, medicine. Hieratic was also applied to write administrative purpose, such as laws.
Egyptians books were long, much like scrolls. Some were meters long.
Greek was the first language to arrive in Europeans Countries. Were the Greeks which help Scandinavians to developed their Runic alphabet, which was in from 3rd century to the 16th or 17th century ad, and was the most written language during antiquity in Mediterranean countries, and beyond. Actually, Greek was the official language spoke and written in the Byzantine Empire. The first European books were developed by the Greeks, which developed written systems for many European languages. The majority of European people didn't developed written systems, until the Greek helped them.
Latin comes after. Actually, Latin replaced written systems and languages already developed by high middle age Black people living in Iberian peninsula and France region. Later on was introduced in Europe, after the Greek. And the first bible, was written in Aramaic, which was the second common language in the Mediterranean region and beyond as well...
-------------------- ---lnnnnn* Posts: 198 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: The following is very interesting, especially because Eugen Strouhal has some interesting data on the Abusir settlement, which I'll post at another time.
What did Strouhal say about Abusir?
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^Help me track down the mtDNA L candidates that some of these maps' pie charts are based on.... I've searched for this Italian sample, but I can't find it.
sorry didn't see this the first time.
okay Maju (you could ask him!) cites Jean Manco's ancient DNA page from that time (May 2011), archived version here: Jean's ancient DNA June 2011
the 12 samples from Copper Age eastern Spain are from Fernandez et al (2006), which i can't find, and from Gamba et al (2008): "Population genetics and DNA preservation in ancient human remains from Eastern Spain", which is very brief and doesn't explain their reasoning, but as far as i can tell there is no reason the samples marked "L3?" couldn't be N(xR) or M. they say "the Chalcolithic period is characterized by the possible presence of L3, a typically sub-saharian lineage". the forum doesn't like the link but it's open access.
the Portuguese one does seem biased toward expecting N, though simple incompetence is also possible. i'm not going to blanket defend mt hg assignments in the literature that's for sure, i've seen awful stuff.
Posts: 660 | From: Canada | Registered: Mar 2017
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Good to have that cleared up. Paglicci12 is not mtDNA L. I know about that sample as it was discussed before on this site. For a moment I suspected that Maju made a mistake based on that sample. I couldn't confirm because I couldn't find the sample as I only knew about it vaguely as an N carrier from UP Italy.
As far as the Chalcolithic samples, they're not the real test of honest reporting as far as I'm concerned. UP and Mesolithic samples are, in my view. Certain Mesolithic French, Iberian and Magdalenian samples are going to have African ancestry based on their morphological affinities. I know that's the real test, because of the bogus Portugese N* assignment and because I see researchers feigning ignorance when they comment on features that have commonalities elsewhere. Let's see how and if aDNA is going to be reported when remains from certain Mesolithic and UP sites are tested.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
i want to see Iberomaurusians, properly not this half-ass HVS-I. would clear up a whole lot.
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What type of affinity do you expect from Iberomaurusian aDNA? We will probably need a lot of aDNA from the Maghreb to get a clear picture because the Iberomaurusian is not one phenomenon or population:
quote:Turning to the Iberomaurusian, although the deposits at Taforalt represent a thick and fairly continuous record of human occupa- tion, there are in fact subtle variations in the cultural sequence. The clearest example is the switch from IB1 with marginally backed (‘Ouchtata’) blades and bladelets to IB2 dominated by microlithic backed bladelets. The actual transition between the two phases is marked by a sharp sedimentary contact between Units Y2/Y1.
If Maju is right about one of the Mesolithic Portugese L candidate being L3d-16111, that lineage might be an example of newcomers during the Iberomaurusian. Based on the distribution of L3d (an important peak in Atlantic West Africa), it seems to have been spread by an extinct population that has been absorbed by living Niger-Congo speakers. Another hg of older, extinct populations has been found in Atlantic West Africa (i.e. A-M31), and this hg has also been found in West Europe. If that L candidate turns out to be L3d, as Maju proposes, it and A-M31 might have arrived together in postglacial Europe.
posted
i don't know what to expect, there are several very different possibilities for Iberomaurusians, which is why i'm curious.
L3d2 has C16111T, which is a recurrent control region mutation, yet isn't that common so it's better than nothing. on the other hand it has upstream T16124C, which the sample does not, so we'd need a back mutation. 16124 did back mutate within L3b so not far-fetched. but could be extinct N*, or pre-N5, or something like that as well. L3d2 would be interesting.
L1b is another one that could come south with the Green Sahara. E1a-M33 too.
morphological affinities, yeah, well. someone should buckle down and figure out which cranial/dental traits and how well actually correlate with deep genetic ancestry using ancient DNA, and what's selection, lifestyle, plesiomorphy, pleiotropy, etc. would greatly increase the value of the skeletal stuff.
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quote:Originally posted by capra: L3d2 has C16111T, which is a recurrent control region mutation, yet isn't that common so it's better than nothing. on the other hand it has upstream T16124C, which the sample does not, so we'd need a back mutation. 16124 did back mutate within L3b so not far-fetched. but could be extinct N*, or pre-N5, or something like that as well. L3d2 would be interesting.
Either it's that (back mutation), it's not L at all, or the L3d2 lineage accumulated it in the meantime. Whatever lineage that ancient sample belongs to, it's older than L3d2, so as long as the differences are proportional to time (which they may be in this case, differences are not that much of a problem.
In the case of the other L candidate, the most similar modern examples seem to be too divergent. It could be L3f1b-16390, which has an ancient presence in Morocco, and is still found there, to this day (see below). But this Moroccan lineage is much more divergent from CRS than the Portugese sample. Geographically and age-wise it's interesting, but it seems too divergent.
The explanation above may apply, but then the split between both mtDNAs would likely have to be much more ancient.
EDIT: I see what you mean with back mutation. You're saying the same thing. I read what you said but didn't let it sink in.
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posted
More beating around the bush and deliberately(?) ambiguous ancestry tests when it comes to Mesolithic Europeans (see my comments about Mesolithic Portugal above):
quote:Originally posted by Tyrannohotep: And from the supps, admixture proportions for the ancient individuals analyzed. I'm a bit surprised to see that Cheddar Man (third man down from the top) already has a little snippet of Anatolian Neolithic-like ancestry. Either there was already some admixture from the Anatolian Neolithic trickling north into Cheddar's territory, or it's actually something else and the algorithm misidentified it (there are only two options presented, Anatolian Neolithic and WHG).
Notice that the ancestry tests in this paper don't tell you anything in regards to the Mesolithic samples. They're trying to make you think that the tests are valid and informative, but they're not answering any questions that are raised their results. For instance, what does it even mean to be WHG? You can repeat it a thousand times throughout the paper and assign ancestry to that category, but you've never explained what it means. And then when they find samples that are largely WHG, but with some non-WHG elements, they never investigate what that is. In some papers they don't even point it out when that happens, like they don't see it the elephant in the room. Their whole job is supposed to be to reconstruct populations and admixture events, so why is that not happening when it comes to European HGs?
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: ^ I fully agree, and we have to study and understand this man Felix von Luschan, only then will we fully understand this "Abisir paper" and its place in history.
The fact the title emphasizes on "Sub-Saharans" being least indigenous and or related to ancient Egypt, according to "their" findings is much forth telling.
Yet, at least one of the samples is clearly African in origin, which has SNP's that can easily be found in the SSA region, specimen JK2888 and is very old in the region. However, this is probably what they clam as being recent in this supposed paper.
Here is a well put together summary of the derived alleles, which shows the JK2888 is Ptolemaic and is dated 97–2 0/1.
The other specimen is included as well and dates back to max, 769 BC.
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I'm glad I found others found there's foul play in the study and missing samples. University originally published 91 sample But then when it's was published to the public it became 90 sample. I'm assuming when it was 91 samples in final report it had 2 african mtdna ,mine which is L3F1B which yfull includes an Egyptian mummy , and this has been erased from records it seems, the other is L3* . According to yfull. When looking at study from the German university it's 91 samples , to then suddenly 90 samples,and all of a sudden only L3* is used to compare if there's sub Saharan dna. Wheres L3f1b. Go to yful,im the one with eritrean flag. Under me Egyptian mummy.
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posted
Saw where the damn blogger called gentikker said an Easter Island skull was Caucasoid compared to a Solomon Island skull's similarity to a "primitive" Congolese skull. Rapa Nui is the indigenous name for so-called Easter Island. Gentikker might be the wrong name but the blogger had lots of racist views & interpretations.
-------------------- Tehutimes Posts: 115 | From: north america | Registered: Jan 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: Djehuti posted something similar here:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
"The outline of the cross-sections of the hairs was flattened, with indices ranging from 35 to 65. These peculiarities also show the Negroid inference among the Badarians (pre-dynastic Egyptians)."
The term "Negroid influence" suggests intermixture, but as the table suggests this hair is more "Negroid" than the San and the Zulu samples, currently the most Negroid hair in existence!
In another study, hair samples from ten 18th-25th dynasty individuals produced an average index of 51! As far back as 1877, Dr. Pruner-Bey analyzed six ancient Egyptian hair samples. Their average index of 64.4 was similar to the Tasmanians who lie at the periphery of the African-haired populations(1).
A team of Italian anthropologists published their research in the Journal of Human Evolution in 1972 and 1980. They measured two samples consisting of 26 individuals from pre-dynastic, 12th dynasty and 18th dynasty mummies. They produced a mean index of 66.50...
[…]
"The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (see below). Sagittal plateau, rounded forehead with moderately projecting glabella; globular cranium with high vault. Protrusion of incisors, receding chin and steep mandible. Very vertical zygomatic arches and pronounced maxillary prognathism."-- X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980)
posted
What about Andaman Island hair? Recall J.A. Rogers referring to Andaman hair as so crinkly/crunchy when cut it didn't seem like human hair. Nothing critical of nappy hair just noting a sample compared to San & Ama-Zulu hair textures missing from the test results.
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