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Author Topic: Do Egyptians Like Foreigners In Egypt?
egyptianman
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Do Egyptians Like Foreigners In Egypt?


I think the Egyptian people are very welcoming to both foreign tourists and foreign citizens that have settled in Egypt.

As a foreign person living or visiting Egypt, what are your feelings about this?
Do you feel welcome or unwelcome?

As an Egyptian, what are your feelings towards foreigners

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akshar
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As a foreigner living here, very very welcome, almost overwhelmingly so.

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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor


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Demiana
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Good topic, thanks

I am received differently. I feel only my Egyptian Sil, maybe my MIL and her sister can grasp somehow where I am coming from as a person. They make me feel the most ' normal' in how they respond to me.
Shopowners are very welcoming and polite most of the time, with some I see moneysigns in there eyes. But I know a very nice shopowner in my street in Alexandria that is just nice in a kind and appropriate way, not looking at me as if I am an alien.
As I am viewed in the village where we stay sometimes. If I hang out the laundry at the balcony, the villagepeople line up in the streets, hang out of their windows. Then I wave like I am the queen. I am just a curiosity to most of em. Old men fall of their donkey's when I greet them passing by. An angry, bearded young man made a scene in a shop that he should be helped before a low life like me. I am very well received by nieces and nephews of my dh, part of their lives could be mine.
I have been sent away once at the fortress of Kutbait, for being European and Christian, that was not nice. But the Egyptian Touristpolice immediately invited me in to make an official complaint. Never heard of evermore but anyway.
I have been to places (South-America) where the only white western women were the ones they knew from pornomovies. Someone could seriously ask me If I brought my ' dildo' with me!LOL The ' hottest' thing that happened to me in Egypt was some young boys yelling ' hashiesh' watching me smoking at the beach. But I still am curious how Egyptian people ' stereotype' me. Some passengers on the street sometimes try their ' English' on me. I like to make yokes to them: ana mish bikallim angeliesi!LOL


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akshar
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Demiana that is such a shame. Our neigbours recently invited us for a wedding and although we were offered food differently from the other women we were part of the car procession.

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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor


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Troubles101
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quote:
Originally posted by Demiana:
Good topic, thanks

I am received differently. I feel only my Egyptian Sil, maybe my MIL and her sister can grasp somehow where I am coming from as a person. They make me feel the most ' normal' in how they respond to me.
Shopowners are very welcoming and polite most of the time, with some I see moneysigns in there eyes. But I know a very nice shopowner in my street in Alexandria that is just nice in a kind and appropriate way, not looking at me as if I am an alien.
As I am viewed in the village where we stay sometimes. If I hang out the laundry at the balcony, the villagepeople line up in the streets, hang out of their windows. Then I wave like I am the queen. I am just a curiosity to most of em. Old men fall of their donkey's when I greet them passing by. An angry, bearded young man made a scene in a shop that he should be helped before a low life like me. I am very well received by nieces and nephews of my dh, part of their lives could be mine.
I have been sent away once at the fortress of Kutbait, for being European and Christian, that was not nice. But the Egyptian Touristpolice immediately invited me in to make an official complaint. Never heard of evermore but anyway.
I have been to places (South-America) where the only white western women were the ones they knew from pornomovies. Someone could seriously ask me If I brought my ' dildo' with me!LOL The ' hottest' thing that happened to me in Egypt was some young boys yelling ' hashiesh' watching me smoking at the beach. But I still am curious how Egyptian people ' stereotype' me. Some passengers on the street sometimes try their ' English' on me. I like to make yokes to them: ana mish bikallim angeliesi!LOL


You sure they are curious about you not what you wear?. This reminds me when I was alittle boy, that woman who used to hang the laundry on balcony with bed room clothes which was the time most men in our street liked to have there tea on balconies.

This woman had too much clothes


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Demiana
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Hello Jane,
I am sure it is different with neigbours and family, I line up with'em all in church or whatever. And you probably are not a blue-eyed redhaired stick-out in the crowd!LOL

Hi Troubles
I am always decently dressed but I know what you mean. I take good care to hang the ' sensitive' wear in the back behind large T-shirts or sheets. Anyway, my dh and the backneighbour had to chase away groups of noughty little boys that lowered their pants where I was, shouting indecent ' English' proverbs. I guess I should try niqaab and dark glasses!LOL


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Demiana
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The most poetic welcome I used to get was from my FIL, God rest his soul, he used to say ' the skies above Alexandria gets bright when you arrive' (in arabic of course) isn' t that charming?
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Automatik
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Damiana: My expreience is the same as yours. I am a curiosity. Even after 6 years the girls in my village ran to their doors when I passed by to see what I was wearing. Small boys ran up to me and shouted the obscenities that their bigger brothers had taught them. All the men tried to chat me up when my partner was not there.

Yes I went to all the weddings, was part of the processions, attended births, cried at funerals, comforted the bereaved and celebtrated at all the baby weddings. I can no longer count them all. I did everything that everyone else does in normal lif - and I loved it. Did I ever belong? No. Did I expect to belong - No. I am an immigrant and always will be. Do I resent this - No I don't.

I love Egypt (as anyone who has been following the YourEgypt Journal lines will have noted. But I have no illusions about it either. Why else would I forsake the comforts of Europe and live here?


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Demiana
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Hi Luxorlover,

No illusions, indeed! Love being there, agreed! I have no problem in the theatrical areas, I played mayor characters and enjoyed it, but sometimes I need someone that sees me as ' me', glad I have the kids around!LOL


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Carleen
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I can't believe that *children* have made sexually suggestive remarks to you two?? I would have been floored. Then I would have slapped them.
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akshar
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quote:
Originally posted by Carleen:
I can't believe that *children* have made sexually suggestive remarks to you two?? I would have been floored. Then I would have slapped them.

Amira and I crossed over to Luxor the other day to quickly collect some post from American Express. And as we left the motor boat some boys shoutd out at us. Well I would like to think it was us but I suspect it was my daughter. I didn't slap them but shouted 'aib'. I don't know the exactly translation of this word but it is something you saw if someone is doing something shameful or against Islam. These boys carried for a bit repeating what I said.

Anyway when we came back one of them shouted again. I am sorry Madame please forgive me.

I am fairly sure that the driver of the motor boat had told them off.

You ladies said about walking without your partner and that I think is the key.

When Amira and I first arrived Mahmoud would not let us go anywhere without him. Everything we wanted he had to be with us. This meant that 70% of the village know that we belong to him. Some still don't but if they shout after us I often here someone else saying something in Arabic which contains Madame Mahmoud. If Amira is with me and can translate it is along the lines. Don't do that they belong to Mahmoud.

When we go out of the village Mahmoud always controls that too. Either he is with us, or his uncle takes us in the taxi or one of his friends takes across in a motor boat.

This means we are constantly surronded by this wall of protective men. Now you can look at this two ways. Restrictive and controlling or protective and caring. As the incident with the boys showed it can be a real benefit.

That was another thing about hanging up washing Mahmoud told me off for hanging up my undies to dry the first time I did it. So I would put out tops and trousers but hang my undies up inside the flat. Fortunately this is not a really issue here in Egypt as things dry so easily. Now I have a double clothes line hanging inside my balcony so I can hang undies up behind the other clothes and they can't be seen from below either. Until I read your comments I had always wondered why he was so strict about this, now I know.

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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor


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Automatik
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But I don't want to belong to anyone. I was Madam ** for years now I want to be me. I live alone. I want to be able to walk to the ferry alone I do not want to have to find another man (easy task in Luxor) to walk freely.

I can cope with the kids - they are just like small English boys who shout rude words and run away. They do not know what they are saying.

For many years I never went anywhere without my partner. He owned me. I was his property. Sorry but I never want to be in that position again.


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akshar
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quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
But I don't want to belong to anyone. I was Madam ** for years now I want to be me. I live alone. I want to be able to walk to the ferry alone I do not want to have to find another man (easy task in Luxor) to walk freely.

I can cope with the kids - they are just like small English boys who shout rude words and run away. They do not know what they are saying.

For many years I never went anywhere without my partner. He owned me. I was his property. Sorry but I never want to be in that position again.


As I said

quote:
This means we are constantly surronded by this wall of protective men. Now you can look at this two ways. Restrictive and controlling or protective and caring. As the incident with the boys showed it can be a real benefit.

a woman alone will always be much more an object of curiosity than one attached. Especially in more rural areas where the local women would never live alone.

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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor


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Demiana
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That is true Jane,
One should think that if you walk alone as a woman, you are more subjected to these types of comments. We had indecent (mail) harassment on the streets overhere too, not so long ago, I believe. Another topic.
But in most of the occasions I mentioned my dh was there, and everyone in the village know for years that I am the wife of my dh, I am surrounded by family and (mine and other) kids. So I leave the 'kid' a aib' (I believe he then utters) to my dh. And when they all gather around my balcony my dh runs out of the door and shouts to them: ' she is just an ordinary woman!' which, of course, I aint, to them!LOL I guess it is just plain curiosity in some cases, and not having a clue how to behave to someone so different from yourself, maybe having fantastic images of westerners, on the other hand. But then again, very human, one can spot such not appropriate behaviour, in different sences, in western small villages, or even towns towards immigrants.

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Carleen
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Jane, how is your daughter treated by her peers? Do the boys see her as a typical Egyptian girl, or is she a "curiosity" also?
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akshar
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quote:
Originally posted by Carleen:
Jane, how is your daughter treated by her peers? Do the boys see her as a typical Egyptian girl, or is she a "curiosity" also?


Both

You see she is half Arab and speaks Arabic, she looks Arabic as well and quite often wears hijab from no other reason than she likes to look like the other young girls her age. So very much she is treated like a local.

But that makes her stand out as well because how many Western girls do you know that speak arabic. So people are really curious about her. But now almost everyone but everyone knows her, more than know me. they also know my husband and that he considers her his daughter and frankly he has a very hot temper so they don't want to offend him so although she is a curiosity she is treated with respect.

This is of course here in our village Al Gezera on the West Bank. It actually means she has more freedom here than she ever had in the UK because she can walk in safety.

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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor


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Automatik
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She can walk in safety, but when she is older will she be allowed to walk alone?
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akshar
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quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
She can walk in safety, but when she is older will she be allowed to walk alone?

I think so, as my sister in law does going to and from school. She is 17 and is always poping in our flat to use the phone to gossip with her girlfriends and her fiancee. If it gets really late then she gets a ride home otherwise she goes back in a service car. It's not Saudi Arabia here lol

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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor


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CaliGirl
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Was wondering, are all foreig women seen as a curiosity or is it the blonde/blue-eyed women that catch the heat? I am Mexican-American but have been told I can pass as an Egyptian. I will be visiting Egypt this year and want to know if I would have problems visiting the towns or villages on my own without an escort.
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Carleen
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That is an excellent question, and it's been on my mind since I returned from my trip (10 days ago). I'm still not really sure of the answer.

I'm 30ish, African-American, was traveling solo, and I did receive a lot of attention, but it didn't bother me in the least (except at Khan el Khalili after Friday prayers - intense). After reading about some female tourists refusing to leave their hotels or even cutting their trip short because of harassment, I thought to myself, "Gee, am I that much of a flirt, because I don't see what the big deal is!" I was approached by guys asking that I sit & talk with them, a few that I did have conversations with gave me their phone numbers & e-mails, I got a few requests for kisses and/or my hand in marriage, blah blah blah. But I was always dealt with respectfully (regardless of ulterior motive). A lot of people would call out "Hello my sista!" And I'd smile & wave, "Hello my brotha!", and keep walking. The worst I can say someone said to me, in English at least, was "Heeey, babeee!" And I just turned & said "That's not my name.", and he laughed and said "Ok." That was it.

But lately I've been reading about some really, really vulgar things that are said to some women, and I'm truly shocked. The only difference I can come up with is that I'm black, and just not that out-of-the-ordinary for Egyptians (though I was easily identified as American).

But maybe there was another difference - dumb, goofy American that I am, I was always friendly and always smiled a lot (against the advice of the travel books). It's just my nature, and I couldn't force myself to be any different. So maybe there was no reason for someone to possibly get angry & say something vile to get my attention, b/c I made sure I was nice to everyone.

[This message has been edited by Carleen (edited 15 June 2004).]


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Carleen
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But let me also add that I was always, always, always, even in 115-degree-Aswan, dressed in long sleeves and slacks. I was really astounded at how so many female tourists insisted on dressing like they were at home, and some of that shouldn't have been worn there either. A lot of women refuse to accept that the way they dress can & will draw unwanted attention.
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CaliGirl
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Thank you Carleen!
It sounds like your experience was a lot of fun! Just want to ask, you dressed in long sleeves and slacks (conservative). I am assuming you are Muslim? I was wondering what would be ok to wear without covering up so much or exposing myself. I am thinking now shorts and tank tops are out of the question? Even if I dont wear these two together? Maybe slacks and a tank? or shorts and a shirt? I want to be comfortable just didn't realize the dress code was such a big issue.

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BahYBasha
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Hi there caligirl,

I guess that the Latin’s got the same skin color as us (Egyptian); at least I had a Latin friend who had the same skin color as me. U wont get that much attention as the blonde girl would get cuz u wont be any different (I mean in looks), although ppl may notice u. the reason for why Egyptian men harassment foreign women is the image that u created into our minds about the blonde girl that have 3 bf and sleeps wit each everyone without marriage and these image is created by the crap American movies (no offense). So they think harassing a white girl, wouldn’t be a big deal for her.

The best way to avoid all this, if u knew some Egyptian friend that will be with u while u r outdoors as he prevent something like that or even try to make friends thru the icq because I knew a friend who was traveling with this girl from Canada for a whole month and he just knew her from the icq. The younger generation of Egyptian youth who use the internet chatting programsand they at least got an idea of how the western civilization so it would be kewl.

last thing it wont hurt if u r smiling and nice to ppl as Carleen did. After we need our respect. I hope that this would help.

Salam alkom brothers and sisters


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Carleen
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Hi there,

No, I'm a Christian. My typical summerwear is t-shirts & shorts, but I'd never dress that way in Egypt except on the beach. Even then the hotel workers stared so hard that I was embarassed. If you look around, you'll see that no Egyptian female (or male, really) will have their shoulders or knees exposed. One female in our tour group wore a tank-top and shorts the day we were in Cairo, and she said people looked at her like they wanted her dead. She was extremely uncomfortable.

But really, the sun is so intense in most of the country that you shouldn't want your skin exposed anyway. I saw some people with horrific sunburns. I bought a few travel outfits from Land's End specifically for high temperature environments. The clothes even had an SPF-like rating for how well they kept out UV rays & such, and the fabric was made for wicking the enormous amounts of sweat you will generate away from your body, keeping you cool & dry. Along with my tacky American straw hat, I was as comfortable as was possible to be.

And yes, I did have a great time!


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Carleen
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quote:
Originally posted by BahYBasha:
the reason for why Egyptian men harassment foreign women is the image that u created into our minds about the blonde girl that have 3 bf and sleeps wit each everyone without marriage and these image is created by the crap American movies (no offense). So they think harassing a white girl, wouldn’t be a big deal for her.

Ok, I can accept that movies may lead some men to think Western women would be easy to sleep with (I guess), but I don't understand why they'd think they don't even need to be polite about it???


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BahYBasha
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quote:
Originally posted by Carleen:
I don't understand why they'd think they don't even need to be polite about it???

may be because we dont have enough experience with western women!!

May be not....

may be it is about respect!

May be not...

may be because we are over sexed ( right Expression? )

May be not...

i really donno what could explain this kind of behavior!

and by the way, being christan doesnt give u all the freedom in the world. i know Egyptian christan families that are not allowed to drink and dont let their daughters to wear short exposed clothes.


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akshar
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quote:
Originally posted by Carleen:
If you look around, you'll see that no Egyptian female (or male, really) will have their shoulders or knees exposed. One female in our tour group wore a tank-top and shorts the day we were in Cairo, and she said people looked at her like they wanted her dead. She was extremely uncomfortable.

But really, the sun is so intense in most of the country that you shouldn't want your skin exposed anyway. I saw some people with horrific sunburns.


OMG if only other people would act like you. When tourists dress like this the boys shout after them 'cheap meat' and they have the nerve to get offended and say why can't they wear what they like.

Because they are in a Muslim society that has different values from back home. Thats why and it isn't just because of Islam as has been pointed out Christian Egyptian women dress conservatively as well. They also don't do public displays of affection. Then men here see kissing and touching going on and are horrified (and of course really excited). There is no way an Egyptian couple would be like this in public.

You said you weren't hassled and had a good time, well you deserved it. Well done

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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor


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Carleen
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quote:
Originally posted by BahYBasha:
may be because we dont have enough experience with western women!!

May be not....

may be it is about respect!

May be not...

may be because we are over sexed ( right Expression? )

May be not...

i really donno what could explain this kind of behavior!

and by the way, being christan doesnt give u all the freedom in the world. i know Egyptian christan families that are not allowed to drink and dont let their daughters to wear short exposed clothes.


Before I get defensive, was that last comment directed to me?

[This message has been edited by Carleen (edited 16 June 2004).]


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Penny
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Dear Caligirl

I mostly wear full length linen skirts with 3/4 length sleeve linen shirts/blouses. I promise you it is more comfortable than shorts or trousers and much cooler. You are also then protected from the suns rays.

Loose long dresses with a short sleeve are also very comfortable.

If you do wear anything that does not have a sleeve then keep a long scarf with you which you can then cover your sholders with anywhere that you do not feel comfortable.

Penny


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BahYBasha
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not it wasnt dierected to u Carleen.
and plz dont get me wrong if u understood that i was trying offend u or something!
have a good day

Posts: 180 | From: halifax, nova scotia, canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Demiana
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It is just funny, silly, whatever,
Someday someone (where I live) told me that I look very conservative, serious and must be against abortion as in a ProLife Christian. Which I aint.
And then you are pictured in Egypt as an easy-to-get on the loose!LOL
Just images. That must be culture. And distance. Wrong perceptions anyway. But it works both ways. I don't know how many times my husband is viewed as being muslim, which he aint. Even Egyptian brotherhood muslims overhere come to intimately talk to him. If you are arabic, you must be muslim.
Every year on Ramadan, my brother will ask him if he is also fasting? And this brother attended our church on some occasions! Images! He (my dh) now (since 9/11) introduces himself as a Turkish Armenian to colleagues and friends, does not speak arabic withem and displays Turkish music in our car all the time! Images.

Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
akshar
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quote:
Originally posted by Demiana:
It is just funny, silly, whatever,
Someday someone (where I live) told me that I look very conservative, serious and must be against abortion as in a ProLife Christian. Which I aint.
And then you are pictured in Egypt as an easy-to-get on the loose!LOL
Just images. That must be culture. And distance. Wrong perceptions anyway. But it works both ways. I don't know how many times my husband is viewed as being muslim, which he aint. Even Egyptian brotherhood muslims overhere come to intimately talk to him. If you are arabic, you must be muslim.
Every year on Ramadan, my brother will ask him if he is also fasting? And this brother attended our church on some occasions! Images! He (my dh) now (since 9/11) introduces himself as a Turkish Armenian to colleagues and friends, does not speak arabic withem and displays Turkish music in our car all the time! Images.

Images and perception of those images. Perphaps the best thing we can do is to educate our children so that images/sterotyoes/prejudice become consigned to the dustbin because they do not see am image but a person.

As Martin Luther said 'I have a dream'

------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor


Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Demiana
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Right Jane,
We would be better off treating each other as a person. Working on it. Feels so much better too to be recognized as a person.


Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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