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Author Topic: Don't touch means don't touch, DAMN YOU!
Connie Anderson
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Alright when a sign at the "Egypt Museum" says don't touch the artifact, the artifact's case; and the sign is in English and Arabic why do Egyptians and tourists alike still need to touch the artifacts, cases and statues?

What in the hell is wrong with people?

Worse yet, why do parents encourage their son to pose next to a statue with his arm around the shoulders of the statue when clearly the whole Egyptian family is literate?

What the hell is wrong with people?

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' Sharon Stone '
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I think they get too excited and they forget about rules and regulations.
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Connie Anderson
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quote:
Originally posted by ' Sharon Stone ':
I think they get too excited and they forget about rules and regulations.

No I don't think it was excitement. The Egyptians seem to be the least excited out of all Museum attendants. Just a lack of security cameras. And security officers taking the rules themselves seriously.

It really pissed me off.

I actually barked at a young dude asked him if he could focking read the signs posted every 20 feet. He continued to fondle a statue and then just beamed at me and gazed his eyes over my physique. then I felt like killing him. Luckily my SIL was there and pulled me into another exhibit before I hauled off on the little rodent.

Rules are rules.

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Demiana
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Touching 'holy' objects is still in their culture, in their daily life. As if you get something from touching like 'baraka'. Not touching would be not getting in contact in a meaningfull way. No need to discredit people for it. Touching gives you valuable information, like the qualities of fruits and vegetables that are less standard in Egypt than they are in the west.

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Fools blame everyone else, starting philosophers blame themselves, wise people don't blame anyone (Epictetus)

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Connie Anderson
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But the signs say "don't touch". And I don't think many Muslims find pharonic or even Roman artifacts and statutes "holy".

I can understand a bunch of old funny duddies from the UK finding pharonic artifacts "holy" but not everyday Egyptians.

Again I found the Americans far more respectful of exhibits, like how the Americans behaved at the Cheops or Khufu (I can't remember which) Pyramid. Americans made sure they didn't wear camisoles or tank tops, very few wore shorts. While the Europeans of any age were dressed like on a Carribean vacation. Walking down into the pyramid I noticed Americans were quiet and respected the space of others. While Europeans laughed (taking up valuable oxygen) and made jokes, also some pretty darn skinny europeans know how to take up more than half of the walkway's space and that is one narrow walkway to begin with. Americans sat in the chamber longer and reflected. Europeans basically just turned around and went out again. I didn't see one single Egyptian besides my SIL, her employee who went with us and our driver actually make it into the chamber room, all the other Egyptians turned around in the walk way.

At the Solar Boat Museum I noticed Americans didn't walk in front of others when they were taking photos (same with the Asians, very polite). Again the Asians pointed and chattered and reflected on the significance of the exhibits. Europeans horsed around and didn't pay attention to the exhibits.

You don't have to touch things to get meaningful information. You can do your research on the objects before actually coming to the Museum or you can actually listen to the guide you hired instead of carrying on several simultaneous conversations instead of listening to his well rehearsed and researched information.

Touch isn't the only sense a person has.

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Demiana
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I am glad you can be proud of your fellow Americans visiting Egypt Sono. Isn't cultural comparison a fun thing to do?
I remember when in the Dutch Guyana's I was appouled how people would push each other around the door of the bus, or make the bus stop before the agreed stoppingplace. Never lining up or being carefull to each other. How I was used to enter public transport. Then I moved to a different part of Amsterdam where I would have to use the metro. All sorts of people would push themselves in in fear of the doors getting closed before that!:-)
And all those commercials on the tele. Whenever the news would start you first had to look at endless displays of the goods of local shops. Not where I came from! We had commercialfree, and therefore valuefree news! The minute I came back not even the commercial televisionstations started but also the commercials on the public tele broadened their appearence!:-)
And I am sure in the US as in Europe you have different people that are more or less cultured or only use this sites as the next adventurepark they are used to visit.

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Fools blame everyone else, starting philosophers blame themselves, wise people don't blame anyone (Epictetus)

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tootifrooti
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[Roll Eyes]
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Connie Anderson
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Well I think the difference lies in the fact that airfare to Egypt is far more expensive for americans than it is for Europeans.

If you saw how Americans behave in the Carribean or in the Mexican Riveria you'd be taken a back. Very socially mal-adjusted behavior then they are proud of their mis-adventures when they come back home.

but since vacationing in Egypt outside of the Red Sea Resort area is an act of defiance against the current administration those Americans I saw were more enlightened.

I couldn't believe the amount of elderly Americans making the trips to see the sights in Cairo compared to the amount of young Europeans visiting the same spots. The age difference could've been a factor.

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Demiana
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You must be right Sono. It takes some bravery for an American to come visit Egypt these days next to the costs.

--------------------
Fools blame everyone else, starting philosophers blame themselves, wise people don't blame anyone (Epictetus)

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SayWhatYouSee
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I like Americans, but attempting to portray them as perfect tourists, compared to Egyptians and Europeans just doesn't stand up to closer scrutiny. Also, Americans enjoy astonishingly cheap deals to Egypt, even with the airfare included. Generalisations about people rarely stand up to close scrutiny. Americans are no worse or better than other tourists. Good manners are not defined by race of gender.
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Charm el Feikh?
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quote:
Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
Well I think the difference lies in the fact that airfare to Egypt is far more expensive for americans than it is for Europeans.

If you saw how Americans behave in the Carribean or in the Mexican Riveria you'd be taken a back. Very socially mal-adjusted behavior then they are proud of their mis-adventures when they come back home.

but since vacationing in Egypt outside of the Red Sea Resort area is an act of defiance against the current administration those Americans I saw were more enlightened.

I couldn't believe the amount of elderly Americans making the trips to see the sights in Cairo compared to the amount of young Europeans visiting the same spots. The age difference could've been a factor.

good to have you back sono, hope you had a great time.

ive never thought of it this way before. i think youve hit the nail on the head here. its not really the holiday maker, but the holiday. mexico to me was a long haul expensive destination, and i went there to trek through the jungle to chitchen itza on the day of the equinox, a very spiritual occasion.. to the americans it was a cheap beach holiday.

also, when i was in egypt, i took the kids to see giza but not luxor or petra. my reasoning was it would be not much more expensive to visit those places for a week on a future holiday.

obvious when you think about it. guess thats why i avoid benidorm!

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FlyingTrucks
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i like it when you go there and you have to hand your camera in .but you go in with your mobile camrea fone and walk around doing sneaky video ,, [Smile]
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daria1975
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quote:
Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
but since vacationing in Egypt outside of the Red Sea Resort area is an act of defiance against the current administration those Americans I saw were more enlightened.

I didn't see *any* Americans the couple of times I've been. [Frown] Maybe I'm going at the wrong time of year. But yeah, it's a heck of a trip for an American to make, time-wise and money-wise.
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Elegantly Wasted
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I beg to differ about the "cheap" deals. My airfare to Alex in July cost over $1600..not exactly a cheap deal.

I gotta agree with Sono about the atire difference between the Euros and Americans (also Canadians and Asians). In Dec. when it was fairly chilly even in Cairo the Euros were dressed for the beach. It was too dayum cold for that! I found that the Americans, Canadians, and Asians were far more respectable clothing wise than the Euros.

quote:
Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
I like Americans, but attempting to portray them as perfect tourists, compared to Egyptians and Europeans just doesn't stand up to closer scrutiny. Also, Americans enjoy astonishingly cheap deals to Egypt, even with the airfare included. Generalisations about people rarely stand up to close scrutiny. Americans are no worse or better than other tourists. Good manners are not defined by race of gender.


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daria1975
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quote:
Originally posted by Madame M.:
In Dec. when it was fairly chilly even in Cairo the Euros were dressed for the beach. It was too dayum cold for that! I found that the Americans, Canadians, and Asians were far more respectable clothing wise than the Euros.

I agree with that....the European tourists I saw at Giza, Egyptian Museum, Citadel, around the Nile, etc., were all wearing tiny halter tops and short-shorts. And some men with above-the-knee shorts. (that's just wrong anywhere).

I wouldn't think twice about that attire here at home, but it was really weird to see women wearing that in Cairo, after everything the tourguide books say about dressing at least somewhat modestly. (But again, I never saw Americans, so who knows what they might have been wearing).

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SayWhatYouSee
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quote:
Originally posted by Madame M.:
I beg to differ about the "cheap" deals. My airfare to Alex in July cost over $1600..not exactly a cheap deal.

[/QB][/QUOTE]
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SayWhatYouSee
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Madame,

I assume the $1600 was for a scheduled flight. I know of Americans securing complete packages, for not much more than that, inlcuding a Nile cruise. Americans travel to Egypt in much smaller numbers than Europeans. They are the most cautious of travellers, especially to the middle east. Perhaps the sheer number of Europeans makes it easier to attribute inappropriate behaviour. In Egypt, it is often hard to spot any Americans, so they are hardly a representative sample.

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Elegantly Wasted
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Yeah it was a scheduled flight. I wasn't going for tourist duty.

I saw Americans in Cairo and Alex. Not a lot but I did see and meet some. There are def. a lot more Euros.

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Connie Anderson
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quote:
Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Madame,

I assume the $1600 was for a scheduled flight. I know of Americans securing complete packages, for not much more than that, inlcuding a Nile cruise. Americans travel to Egypt in much smaller numbers than Europeans. They are the most cautious of travellers, especially to the middle east. Perhaps the sheer number of Europeans makes it easier to attribute inappropriate behaviour. In Egypt, it is often hard to spot any Americans, so they are hardly a representative sample.

And packaged vacations are not marketed to Americans like they are to Europeans.

Its hard pressed to find a European travel agency that will sell a package to an American.

I saw only one packaged tour group and they were a bunch of Mormons.

I rest my case.

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Connie Anderson
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quote:
Originally posted by Snoozer:
quote:
Originally posted by Madame M.:
In Dec. when it was fairly chilly even in Cairo the Euros were dressed for the beach. It was too dayum cold for that! I found that the Americans, Canadians, and Asians were far more respectable clothing wise than the Euros.

I agree with that....the European tourists I saw at Giza, Egyptian Museum, Citadel, around the Nile, etc., were all wearing tiny halter tops and short-shorts. And some men with above-the-knee shorts. (that's just wrong anywhere).

I wouldn't think twice about that attire here at home, but it was really weird to see women wearing that in Cairo, after everything the tourguide books say about dressing at least somewhat modestly. (But again, I never saw Americans, so who knows what they might have been wearing).

I only saw a handful of Americans.

One was a woman from Mossouri and her "Alexandrian" fiancee.

She was very open about the way they met and the age difference and the language barrier and so forth.

It was at the Bibliotheca Alexandrina. I knew right away what kind of relationship it was. The two barely spoke to each other. Naturally my mother wanted to bond (especially since she herself is in a sugar-mama relationship) and started traded schedules for the week so she could buddy up. Basically the Alexandrian fiancee looked like a mentally delayed worwolf.

I tried to pull my in-laws away from the happy threesome and explain the man was a dirtbag and his American fiance was a ugly fat passport to him. Mother straight out told me I was rude. So what.

We kept on bumping into the couple in the library and finally my mother got the picture that there was something teribly wrong with the guy and he had scared her.

After that point mother finally started to understand that I had a better grasp on the situation than she did. And I didn't hear anything about Steven for the rest of the vacation until the day before we left. Which is a record for her, she talks about Steven at least 5 times in one conversation. Any opinion, decision, experience is pepper with this imbecile, so her being quiet about the guy for 8 days was a major mercy. [Smile]

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AshkiA
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I was shocked at some of the clothing I saw when I was at Al Houssein Sq. Don't know where they were from but one of them was wearing a white halter dress wayyyyy above the knees that was see though with thong undies. And *I* was worried about wearing short sleeves LOL. [Roll Eyes]
~oh and as far as the don't touch signs, do people realize it's for the preservation of the artifacts/art???? Do they post signs stateing this as well???

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SayWhatYouSee
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quote:
Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
Its hard pressed to find a European travel agency that will sell a package to an American.

I saw only one packaged tour group and they were a bunch of Mormons.

I rest my case. [/QB]

You would be better advised to look at Egyptian companies marketing to the American market. There is no shortage of cheap packages. Friends of mine work in the tourist industry, I have seen exactly what is offered. Here is an example of a simple internet search:
MISR Travel.
''“7 day/6 night Budget Cruncher from US$ 1399.00 . Short of time?Low on funds? Take a deep breath and tackle Cairo AND A NILE CRUISE in the space of 7 action packed days. Enjoy 2 nights at the Movenpick Pyramids Hotel, 3 nights on the Movenpick managed HS Radamis I or II Nile Cruise or the Oberoi HS Sheherezade or Shahrayar and 1 night at the Movenpick Hotel, Heliopolis, local flights, transfers, a full day guided tour of Cairo AND, of course, your flights from and back to JFK on Egytpair’s non stop service. Departures Wednesdays and Thursdays only.

Departures Sept 27 - Dec 7, 2006:
US$ 1399.00 per person (double occupancy) Single Supplement US$ 300.00

For travel July 15 -31, please add US$ 450.00 per person, for travel Aug 1-15, add US$ 300.00 per person and for travel Aug 16 - Sept 26, add US$ 50.00 per person''


No need to rest my case, as this is a chat forum, not a court of law!

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Connie Anderson
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quote:
Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
quote:
Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
Its hard pressed to find a European travel agency that will sell a package to an American.

I saw only one packaged tour group and they were a bunch of Mormons.

I rest my case.

You would be better advised to look at Egyptian companies marketing to the American market. There is no shortage of cheap packages. Friends of mine work in the tourist industry, I have seen exactly what is offered. Here is an example of a simple internet search:
MISR Travel.
''“7 day/6 night Budget Cruncher from US$ 1399.00 . Short of time?Low on funds? Take a deep breath and tackle Cairo AND A NILE CRUISE in the space of 7 action packed days. Enjoy 2 nights at the Movenpick Pyramids Hotel, 3 nights on the Movenpick managed HS Radamis I or II Nile Cruise or the Oberoi HS Sheherezade or Shahrayar and 1 night at the Movenpick Hotel, Heliopolis, local flights, transfers, a full day guided tour of Cairo AND, of course, your flights from and back to JFK on Egytpair’s non stop service. Departures Wednesdays and Thursdays only.

Departures Sept 27 - Dec 7, 2006:
US$ 1399.00 per person (double occupancy) Single Supplement US$ 300.00

For travel July 15 -31, please add US$ 450.00 per person, for travel Aug 1-15, add US$ 300.00 per person and for travel Aug 16 - Sept 26, add US$ 50.00 per person''


No need to rest my case, as this is a chat forum, not a court of law! [/QB]

Unless I see more American ESers or local neighbors boasting their "packaged tour" in Egypt I don't buy it.

I don't see American travel agency ads for these package tours. I do see European travel agency ads on European websites.

You'd have to be here in the USA to know.

Besides most travelers from the USA are actually Egyptians going home for FOTs (Family Obligated Trips) and not for leisure. Which might explain why American wives have more trouble with getting sick in Egypt and have more difficulty finding common western items. But a better insight into modern Egyptian culture and family mores.

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zeina20
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Hi there
i agree with you that don't touch means don't touch and even that it is written all over the place, but still the first thing i say when i have the museum tour that most of the staff is at least 2000 years old so you can't touch it even if there is no glass case but sometimes ppl get really exicted so they touch the stutue to feel it and that's why they are not the only one to blame, the way we disply our artifacts is not right and the ppl who should be watching they don't really care or have the awarrness of it's value , once i was there in the garden i gave my clients free time after we finished the tour and as u know there is a lake in the middle of the garden and it has some sphinex statues around the croners , a russina girl came with a bare body clothes jumbed on the statue and the police man was happy and was enjoying the show , and every body was just staring at her with saying no thing, really it drove me crazy and i told her that isn't allowed and she can't do that, but she pretended that she can't understand till she had her picture taken !!!!!!!!....... really i feel pitty about us The Egyptian ( i mean i can't blam the police man coz where he comes from would never allow him to see such a scene of girl but i would blame the screw up system . about the American you are right about them since i'm working in tourism almost 9 years now i can say that American ppl always rescpect the dress code and i can tell that when i get an email about the dress code in Egypt i can tell that the sender is American , Honsetly when i do city tour ( citidal , old Cairo and Khan Elkhlily ) i always ask my clients to be little conservtive at least no sleavless and most of them don't mind that . but other eastern Eur. that they come to Cairo only for over day from sharm or hurgada they look so strange in high heels and very little clothes around the pyramids but once again it's not only thier mistake it's the travel agancy rep. who should tell them about the dress code is Cairo and how different is it from the resorts ? on the other hand i think it's matter of attuide and commen sense but it's a part of some ppl culture and commen sense

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Connie Anderson
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quote:
Originally posted by zeina20:
Hi there
i agree with you that don't touch means don't touch and even that it is written all over the place, but still the first thing i say when i have the museum tour that most of the staff is at least 2000 years old so you can't touch it even if there is no glass case but sometimes ppl get really exicted so they touch the stutue to feel it and that's why they are not the only one to blame, the way we disply our artifacts is not right and the ppl who should be watching they don't really care or have the awarrness of it's value , once i was there in the garden i gave my clients free time after we finished the tour and as u know there is a lake in the middle of the garden and it has some sphinex statues around the croners , a russina girl came with a bare body clothes jumbed on the statue and the police man was happy and was enjoying the show , and every body was just staring at her with saying no thing, really it drove me crazy and i told her that isn't allowed and she can't do that, but she pretended that she can't understand till she had her picture taken !!!!!!!!....... really i feel pitty about us The Egyptian ( i mean i can't blam the police man coz where he comes from would never allow him to see such a scene of girl but i would blame the screw up system . about the American you are right about them since i'm working in tourism almost 9 years now i can say that American ppl always rescpect the dress code and i can tell that when i get an email about the dress code in Egypt i can tell that the sender is American , Honsetly when i do city tour ( citidal , old Cairo and Khan Elkhlily ) i always ask my clients to be little conservtive at least no sleavless and most of them don't mind that . but other eastern Eur. that they come to Cairo only for over day from sharm or hurgada they look so strange in high heels and very little clothes around the pyramids but once again it's not only thier mistake it's the travel agancy rep. who should tell them about the dress code is Cairo and how different is it from the resorts ? on the other hand i think it's matter of attuide and commen sense but it's a part of some ppl culture and commen sense

Thank you!
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SayWhatYouSee
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The fundemental flaw in Albino's argument is that most Americans travelling to Egypt, are actually EGYPTIAN . That would certainly explain why their behaviour is more circumspect(In Albino's view), if it is fact:

quote:
Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
[
Besides most travelers from the USA are actually Egyptians going home for FOTs (Family Obligated Trips) and not for leisure. [/QB]

The Americans I have encountered in Egypt are few and far between, motly from CA...or older groups. This is hardly a scientific sample. I have met Americans who have dressed in the skimpiest of shorts...and tightest of jeans. Europeans too. Rather than be so quick to judge, wouldn't it be beter if more attempts to educate tourists, was made, prior to travel?
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SayWhatYouSee
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fundamental*
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Connie Anderson
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quote:
Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
The fundemental flaw in Albino's argument is that most Americans travelling to Egypt, are actually EGYPTIAN . That would certainly explain why their behaviour is more circumspect(In Albino's view), if it is fact:

quote:
Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
[
Besides most travelers from the USA are actually Egyptians going home for FOTs (Family Obligated Trips) and not for leisure.

The Americans I have encountered in Egypt are few and far between, motly from CA...or older groups. This is hardly a scientific sample. I have met Americans who have dressed in the skimpiest of shorts...and tightest of jeans. Europeans too. Rather than be so quick to judge, wouldn't it be beter if more attempts to educate tourists, was made, prior to travel? [/QB]
I don't think my argument is flawed at all. only a few million of Americans make the trip to Egypt each year which is a fraction of the visitors to Egypt.

Keeping in mind the vast magnitude of Egyptians in the USA. I am thinking there are a million at least and lots of American wives with children too. So many. Egyptians in the USA are more likely to have sound employment and fiances to pay for a trip back to Egypt to visit and more likely to have a clean criminal record to be able to make that trip in the first place. [Big Grin]

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Albino, where do you get your statistics from? It's important to recognise tourism catagories. Your argument appeared to relate to American holidaymakers - then swiftly changed to American Egyptians.

Travel Daily news (August 3 2006) indicates a figure considerably lower than the millions you suggest:[/QB][/QUOTE]I don't think my argument is flawed at all. only a few million of Americans make the trip to Egypt each year which is a fraction of the visitors to Egypt.

[Big Grin] [/QB][/QUOTE]


During the first six months of 2006, there were 118,044 American visits, surpassing last year’s total by 20.1% and the record-setting 2000 number of 114,468 by 3%. The record-setting performance was bolstered in June 2006 when there were 19,656 American visits, a 16.6% increase over the same period in 2005.

As you can see, American visits have increased but they remain a teeny fraction of the 8 million plus visitors every year.

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quote:
Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
I like Americans, but attempting to portray them as perfect tourists, compared to Egyptians and Europeans just doesn't stand up to closer scrutiny. Also, Americans enjoy astonishingly cheap deals to Egypt, even with the airfare included. Generalisations about people rarely stand up to close scrutiny. Americans are no worse or better than other tourists. Good manners are not defined by race of gender.

<Also, Americans enjoy astonishingly cheap deals to Egypt, even with the airfare included.>

I would not say this.Although i`m from Puerto Rico,i have USA nationality.Here we are born with it,and i will be going to Egypt for the second time this next October,and believe me,it was not cheap at all.Let alone astonishingly cheap! [Roll Eyes]
But then i`m visiting again because i liked it so much it was long overdue for me. [Cool]

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<In Egypt, it is often hard to spot any Americans>

You would never in a lifetime spot me as an American in Egypt....i simply don`t look like one...heheeheheh!

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Connie Anderson
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quote:
Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Albino, where do you get your statistics from? It's important to recognise tourism catagories. Your argument appeared to relate to American holidaymakers - then swiftly changed to American Egyptians.

Travel Daily news (August 3 2006) indicates a figure considerably lower than the millions you suggest:

I don't think my argument is flawed at all. only a few million of Americans make the trip to Egypt each year which is a fraction of the visitors to Egypt.

[Big Grin] [/QB][/QUOTE]


During the first six months of 2006, there were 118,044 American visits, surpassing last year’s total by 20.1% and the record-setting 2000 number of 114,468 by 3%. The record-setting performance was bolstered in June 2006 when there were 19,656 American visits, a 16.6% increase over the same period in 2005.

As you can see, American visits have increased but they remain a teeny fraction of the 8 million plus visitors every year. [/QB][/QUOTE]


Sorry I meant millions of Egyptians or Americans with Egyptians ethnicity (if not nationality).

I haven't ate a solid meal in 5 days due to a partial wisdom tooth extraction (and it will take a month before I am back to normal) so I am weak, obviously it is affecting my communication skills.

Not millions of American tourists, but millions of Egyptian Americans and Americans with Egyptian family ties that are not being targeted by the Egyptian tourism authority. The Egyptian tourism authority would rather target young and old Europeans with 6 weeks of vacation every year.

God knows Egyptians pump millions if not billions of dollars in remittances back into Egypt from the west. So screw what they will spend on a vacation. [Roll Eyes]

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Sashyra, Americans can be spotted by their voices too! You don't think the deal I illustrated above is astonishingly cheap?

Albino, ouch, I too have had a wisdom tooth removed, it is painful. I hope you feel better soon.

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Connie Anderson
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quote:
Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
quote:
Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
Its hard pressed to find a European travel agency that will sell a package to an American.

I saw only one packaged tour group and they were a bunch of Mormons.

I rest my case.

You would be better advised to look at Egyptian companies marketing to the American market. There is no shortage of cheap packages. Friends of mine work in the tourist industry, I have seen exactly what is offered. Here is an example of a simple internet search:
MISR Travel.
''“7 day/6 night Budget Cruncher from US$ 1399.00 . Short of time?Low on funds? Take a deep breath and tackle Cairo AND A NILE CRUISE in the space of 7 action packed days. Enjoy 2 nights at the Movenpick Pyramids Hotel, 3 nights on the Movenpick managed HS Radamis I or II Nile Cruise or the Oberoi HS Sheherezade or Shahrayar and 1 night at the Movenpick Hotel, Heliopolis, local flights, transfers, a full day guided tour of Cairo AND, of course, your flights from and back to JFK on Egytpair’s non stop service. Departures Wednesdays and Thursdays only.

Departures Sept 27 - Dec 7, 2006:
US$ 1399.00 per person (double occupancy) Single Supplement US$ 300.00

For travel July 15 -31, please add US$ 450.00 per person, for travel Aug 1-15, add US$ 300.00 per person and for travel Aug 16 - Sept 26, add US$ 50.00 per person''


No need to rest my case, as this is a chat forum, not a court of law! [/QB]

$1399 for a package for Americans while British pay 296BGP for air fare?

and these nile cruises are comparable to what you have listed above:


5 stars - Deluxe
Triple
US$ 740

US$ 540
Double

US$ 590
Single

So if you multiply those numbers above with 1.9 (the amount to multiply to get BGP, you still have a wad of several hundred dollars difference.

It doesn't really add up equally. It still costs Americans more.

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Albino: ''It doesn't really add up equally. It still costs Americans more.'' No it doesn't! Comparitively, Americans can get some great deals. The flights cost more, simply based on air miles travelled...they are not proportionally more. Europeans, on similar packages to the above (WITH SHORTER FLIGHTS), would pay the same or more.

Taking the flight differences into account, i.e. Americans get a long haul flight, Brits a short one - the America deal is better.Your air fare calculations are way out too, as you haven't even included internal flights, in your DIY package. Comparing like with like would enhance your point. Making up your own figures sure doesn't!

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Comparatively*
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Connie Anderson
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quote:
Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Sashyra, Americans can be spotted by their voices too! You don't think the deal I illustrated above is astonishingly cheap?

Albino, ouch, I too have had a wisdom tooth removed, it is painful. I hope you feel better soon.

No our quality of life is mostly privately paid for, Europeans have loads of basics paid for by the government while we pay for basics out of pocket.

Our lifestyle is more expensive. That democracy for you, socialism is cheaper and better quality in the long run......

Anyway you look at it vacationing in Egypt is still more expensive for Americans than for Europeans. Same with the Australians. I have heard its common for Australians to take a "leap year" between high school and college to travel cheaply. Just leaving the country on a flight is staggering, so doing as much travel at once instead of staggered out over a lifetime is much more sensible. Americans can't often take this leap year because reputable colleges frown upon it, so forgo extensive travel and get into the dorm at age 18 or else. [Frown]

the wisdom tooth isn't out. he found that the impacted wisdom tooth has an extra long root which is curled in my jaw bone. he pulled up just enough to crush the tooth in half and make it easier for the next dentist to pull it. At least now the wisdom while impacted won't push on the entire lower left side of my jaw and cause excruciating discomfort. I was told by american dentists that I had to have my wisdome tooth surgically removed and at the same time it would be wise to break the entire mandible and have it straightened out. Been told this by dentists and orthodontists since I was 12 years old. Its not covered by insurance and its about $6000-$8000 USD to get done. Which is down from $14,000 USD quoted when I was 12 years old. My jaw is crooked, and having lower wisdome teeth pushing on the entire lower teeth is causing alot of tension and headaches from TMJ.

I don't know what is going to happen, but the Denist said it would take 5-7 days for the gums to heal up. Its been 7 days and its only halfway healed. Now he's telling my husband (a safe distance from me of 6,000 miles he can fully vouch) that nerve damage will (and has) affected my speech some which will take an entire month to recover. My jaw is locked and will only open so far so I can't eat many solid foods. So its a liquid diet and people joking with me about my temporary lisp.

I have dropped about 15 lbs and a entire jean size. I am forcing myself to eat and following all of the dentists orders, pain killers, medicated mouthwashes and antibiotics.

Don't forget that is the normal course of treatment that American HMOs will pay for, not the jaw surgery.

Sooner or later I will have to have the jaw surgery. Working overseas in either the Arab Gulf or Cairo I am hoping for international HMO which will probably cover the jaw surgery to straighten the jaw and remove the two impacted "curved" wisdom teeth of the law jaw. Its the only way I can afford to have it done before the age of 40 and it was suggested at age 12!

Its bothered me my whole life and this is a temporary fix.

I am grateful to the dentist for trying. 3 injections of novacaine and 3 hours of trying to pull the bastard tooth out, in addition to me passing out twice the guy deserves a medal.

Sorry for rambling, but it hurts. [Razz]

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Connie Anderson
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quote:
Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Albino: ''It doesn't really add up equally. It still costs Americans more.'' No it doesn't! Comparitively, Americans can get some great deals. The flights cost more, simply based on air miles travelled...they are not proportionally more. Europeans, on similar packages to the above (WITH SHORTER FLIGHTS), would pay the same or more.

Taking the flight differences into account, i.e. Americans get a long haul flight, Brits a short one - the America deal is better.Your air fare calculations are way out too, as you haven't even included internal flights, in your DIY package. Comparing like with like would enhance your point. Making up your own figures sure doesn't!

Where are you from?

If you aren't American you don't know what we pay.

Most American aren't offered these packaged deals.

There is a travel company called "Carlson" based out of Minnetonka and Plymouth in my state. They sell travel agency travel packages. I know programmers who work there and they try to get the employee pricing that the European employees get, but in vain.

There is another travel company that has boomed called "Hobbit Travel" and this company doesn't offer "nile cruises" either.

Now I don't know if you've heard of "Affliate Marketing", but its huge. Airlines see that not alot of Americans travel to Egypt, but Europeans do, the Airlines are more willing to bundle airfare and "nile cruises" for Europeans because its cost effective due to more Europeans travel to Egypt than Americans.

The American "tourists" aren't likely to buy these "nile cruises" packages because they are more likely to visit family than get on a damn boat. Sorry but you offer deep discounts to a primary source of business, not to the stray customer. Its business sense, and its not supposed to be fair.

This is the point I am trying to make.

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SayWhatYouSee
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Albino, costing more isn't the same as being more expensive...perhaps that's where we disagree. It should cost Americans more, simply as flights are longer - just as it would cost more to drive Luxor to Cairo than say Alexandria to Cairo. THe cost is relative to the journey.

Despite this, as illustrated above, there are deals out there, for Nile cruise/Cairo packages, comparable in price to identical European ones. I learned this from Egyptian friends who were surprised how little Americans could 'do' Egypt for.

On a different note, your tooth does sound painful. I imagine sleep is difficult, for you right now. I hope the meds help.

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Connie Anderson
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quote:
Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Albino, costing more isn't the same as being more expensive...perhaps that's where we disagree. It should cost Americans more, simply as flights are longer - just as it would cost more to drive Luxor to Cairo than say Alexandria to Cairo. THe cost is relative to the journey.

Despite this, as illustrated above, there are deals out there, for Nile cruise/Cairo packages, comparable in price to identical European ones. I learned this from Egyptian friends who were surprised how little Americans could 'do' Egypt for.

On a different note, your tooth does sound painful. I imagine sleep is difficult, for you right now. I hope the meds help.

I slept for two days straight when I got home. Now off the antibiotics I can't get to sleep as easily. Nevermind the fact that I have drunken neighbors hanging out in the streets at 4am. [Roll Eyes] they are white so they can get away with anything, if they were not white the police would be her cuffing them by now.

So the air fare is relative, which is why Americans do the Mexican Riveria instead. Don't bother calling us cheap.

And these package deals are out there, but many of americans are allowed to buy these "packages" through their employees and pay in increments until the vacation date. Because "basics" like my tooth aren't covered by the government and HMOs vacations are a rarity.

And I am hedging my bets that most of the "Americans" traveling to Egypt are of Egyptian heritage with family in Egypt and thus don't need a freaking package, they need to see 300 people in 12 days before they come home.

And alot of American travel agencies don't offer these "nile cruises" packages. They'd have to go straight to the actual cruise operators. Americans get told all the time to book their travel plans through a reputable local travel agency because a local travel agency would have to anwser to the community if you get stiffed. If an American had trouble with an European travel agent, it would be the travel agent's trophy for the year. "Look everyone, I made a nightmare vacation for an American! Fight the GOOOD Fight! Those nasty Americans! They deserved it for not pressuring the US State Department to be "good little Europeans". This has happened so often that Americans aren't willing to book package tours with European travel agents because there are so many horror stories.

We don't trust European travel agents. I can't tell you how many college kids get stiffed when buying Euro-rail passes in Europe that are bogus and end up lossing hundreds of dollars and end up going home after a few days instead of staying 45 days in Europe as planned. You buy Euro-Rail passes from Carlson and Hobbit Travel because they won't screw you over.

But planning a trip to see family in Egypt is fail proof, you'll end up sick, fighting with dispondant relatives and you'll get screwed anyway. Its better to get screwed by a nation of people you are part of. [Big Grin]

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SayWhatYouSee
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Albino,

You started this thread by referring to American tourists, in general. You then switched to detailing Egyptian/American tourists, now you are specifying one type of visitor only. Your argument excludes the many Americans (the majority) visiting purely for a vacation, without Egyptian connections. It sounds to me that you are applying your own circumstances to the entire American travel market.

I don't need to be American, to know what deals are on offer. Lots of tourists pay too much for holiday deals. The internet allows global access to travel operators. Despite the fact that long haul deals should cost more for Americans, there are deals out there that equal packages offered to Europeans.

Just for you, the following MISR Travel deal,(looked up in seconds which specifically targets Americans and excludes the dreaded boat cruise:

8 days / 7 night Extraordinary Egypt: Enjoy the trip of a lifetime with this unique offer from MISR TRAVEL and EGYPTAIR. Spend 6 nights at the historic Mena House Hotel, a 10 minute walk from the Pyramids and Sphinx, or enjoying the spectacular view of the Nile from the downtown Ramses Hilton Hotel. A half day tour to the Pyramids and Sphinx and a half day tour to the Egyptian Museum and the Khan el Khalili Bazaar is included



Departures every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday. Sept 1- Dec 9, 2006
Sept 1 – Oct 31, 2006: US$ 1249.00 per person (double occupancy)

A week in one of Cairo's most historic hotels, flights from America...even a few tours thrown in....from $1249. Comparable to similar European deals, for Cairo, with a LONG HAUL scheduled flight included.

This is exactly the kind of package that appeals to typical American tourists. Egyptian Americans visiting family would of course have different requirements. My points relate to your opening statement.

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Connie Anderson
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quote:
Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Albino,

You started this thread by referring to American tourists, in general. You then switched to detailing Egyptian/American tourists, now you are specifying one type of visitor only. Your argument excludes the many Americans (the majority) visiting purely for a vacation, without Egyptian connections. It sounds to me that you are applying your own circumstances to the entire American travel market.

I don't need to be American, to know what deals are on offer. Lots of tourists pay too much for holiday deals. The internet allows global access to travel operators. Despite the fact that long haul deals should cost more for Americans, there are deals out there that equal packages offered to Europeans.

Just for you, the following MISR Travel deal,(looked up in seconds which specifically targets Americans and excludes the dreaded boat cruise:

8 days / 7 night Extraordinary Egypt: Enjoy the trip of a lifetime with this unique offer from MISR TRAVEL and EGYPTAIR. Spend 6 nights at the historic Mena House Hotel, a 10 minute walk from the Pyramids and Sphinx, or enjoying the spectacular view of the Nile from the downtown Ramses Hilton Hotel. A half day tour to the Pyramids and Sphinx and a half day tour to the Egyptian Museum and the Khan el Khalili Bazaar is included



Departures every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday. Sept 1- Dec 9, 2006
Sept 1 – Oct 31, 2006: US$ 1249.00 per person (double occupancy)

A week in one of Cairo's most historic hotels, flights from America...even a few tours thrown in....from $1249. Comparable to similar European deals, for Cairo, with a LONG HAUL scheduled flight included.

This is exactly the kind of package that appeals to typical American tourists. Egyptian Americans visiting family would of course have different requirements. My points relate to your opening statement.

So in the end this is all a sales job?

The way you went about it, telling me that Americans travel wrong, buy their vacations wrong and to disregard all advice we have recieved over the last 25 years in regards to overseas travel was all a sales job?

you are the one who brought up this "Nile Cruise" sales job, not me. I merely responded to it.

And you not the one who has worked at the airport for a year watching "Americans" go on their way to their destinations. Whether you like it or not Americans will continue to buy their packaged tours from local tour operators.

And I will continue to stand in line at Customs with all other Egyptian Americans who didn't buy their package tours but saw relatives.

Looking at the luggage carousel, looking at the destination and origin tags I can decifer easily you will end up in line to have their luggage searched by customs, Egyptian Americans and me.

When I am boarding a plane in Amsterdam for American origin Cairo, I will be questioned for 20 minutes like any other Egyptian American. the only other passenger with an return flight origin of Cairo are Mormons and they won't be scrutinized like us.

So you can try your sales job in vain. Go ahead. The actual target market won't hear it because Dutch Bastards tyranical rants about airline safety and the dubious origin of all terrorism lies in Cairo, is still swimming in our ears while we relay to our local friends back home in American what customs confiscated this time!

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the only time I buy a package tour is from a fellow American.

Mosely's of BC, Canada; American citizens offer a 5 day Kodiak bear watching expedition. Groups of 4-6 at a time in carefully organized natural bear watching trip.

Thats what I'll do before I get on a Nile Cruise.

I'll probably be remarried and 4 months knocked up when that trip takes place.

Its more authentic and back to nature, like a FOT (Family Obligated Trip) in Egypt! Ha ha ha ha lol.

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SayWhatYouSee
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Albino,

Jumping to ridiculous assumptions seems remarkably easy for you. Your laughable assertion that I am trying to sell something illustrates this...as does your claim to speak for all American travellers. You don't. You speak only for yourself.

Clearly, you are unable to see beyond your individual needs, as you apply your personal circumstances to a general debate. I mentioned the Nile cruise to illustrate only that there are good value packages out there for American tourists. Never have I suggested that this is the only holiday option available.

People are free to buy their tours/flights from anyone they please. If you choose not to shop around and trust only American agents, don't whine when you get a bad deal.

Your fixation with Mormons, is as inexplicable as the incoherent direction of your responses.

You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts. Learn the difference.

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quote:
Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Albino,

Jumping to ridiculous assumptions seems remarkably easy for you. Your laughable assertion that I am trying to sell something illustrates this...as does your claim to speak for all American travellers. You don't. You speak only for yourself.

Clearly, you are unable to see beyond your individual needs, as you apply your personal circumstances to a general debate. I mentioned the Nile cruise to illustrate only that there are good value packages out there for American tourists. Never have I suggested that this is the only holiday option available.

People are free to buy their tours/flights from anyone they please. If you choose not to shop around and trust only American agents, don't whine when you get a bad deal.

Your fixation with Mormons, is as inexplicable as the incoherent direction of your responses.

You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts. Learn the difference.

OUCH!!!
bet that hurt more than the tooth!! yikes............. [Big Grin]

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quote:
Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:


I'll probably be remarried and 4 months knocked up when that trip takes place.


I pity the guy already now who will fall into your trap! Are you going to give up your next child too? You'd better get fixed! [Big Grin]
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henita
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quote:
Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Sashyra, Americans can be spotted by their voices too! You don't think the deal I illustrated above is astonishingly cheap?

Albino, ouch, I too have had a wisdom tooth removed, it is painful. I hope you feel better soon.

Ohh,sure.Of course if i speak everybody will know ì`m a foreigner,but exactly American,i seriously doubt it.On the first place,my native language is Spanish,not English,so i have certain accent.I also try to dress sort of modestly.Not that i will wear veil or djeelaba/caftan,but in a western loose fitting clothes.
But anyway,i am from the Caribbean,so no American pale,nor black either.Heyy,black is a race,i have no problem with it,just in case!
[Cool]
I`m more in the Caribbean side of brown skinned,heheheehh! [Big Grin]

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SayWhatYouSee
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Funny replies, Jamsie Cottar and Tigerlily. Welcome too, as this thread was becoming a little serious! Sashy, yes, Americans are not all middle class white men, in tartan golf slacks!
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tootifrooti
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nice to have you around SWYS...........

Tiger.....how can I get her fixed?
think of the beautiful kittens, pure black and pure grey with smartie tube legs and tin foil doily hats!!!
wanna adopt one when they come?

seriously I need to think of that quick coz he is sniffing and strutting around..............egyptian gigolo !!!!......LOL

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamsie Cottar:

Tiger.....how can I get her fixed?

About who are you talking now? Sonomod or your little kitten? [Big Grin]
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