All men know, at some level, that cheating is wrong. From the earliest age, we are taught the virtues of monogamy. "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife".

Ok, Moslem men are allowed for four wifes, this is ok with their relegion.

So let us start talking about Christians. In troubled relationships, cheating or the romantic threat can be an easy alternative to the burden of a breakup or the agony of divorce which is not allowed to copts in Egypt. It's a quick fix for the sake of the couple's or the family's integrity.

Men are given a bad reputation because many of them cheat in order to get what they want.

Because of our insatiable appetite for sex, we men can sometimes only be as faithful as our options.

So do this mean that all Christian men are into cheating?...... NO, and big NO

Marriage is supposed to be for ever and ever. But it is not always possible for all.

Let me not to call it cheating or romantic threat, let us call it Promise Keepers, it is a rapidly growing in all the world, not only Egypt.

Those promise keepers who start promising talking about romance and love, sometimes they can not do so with local women, so go for foreign women.

Some of them may be married, and some may not, so let us consider the singles.

If they wants a dose of love injected into their life or a sexual encounter, so the foreign woman will be the easy option, as local may will ask him for engagement and marriage before getting any thing out of this relation.

Going back to married men, so they will not be able to divorce according to the Church rules, either to go for the court, or cheat, still the foreign woman is the easy option.

Married moslems, have three options, either go for a second, third or fourth marriage , or go for cheating, or the easiest one is go for shadow (orfi) marriage.

Of course single Moslems just like the Christians in this issue.

Hope this clarify some things, and always I am willing for answering.

quote:

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Originally posted by DJI:
This may have been addressed before, and if it was, I apologize, however; I would like to know, socially, the way the two differ.For example, in another post a woman asked if she could have her Egy boyfriend stay with her, and right away someone offered to become her boyfriend, so to speak. Constantly women are warning other women about Egy men, but I am a little confused. Is it Egy men in general that are a romantic threat or is it Muslim men, being that they are "allowed" to have more than one wife. I do not believe this is allowed in the Christian religion. Do the two differ in the way they view women? Do the Muslim men only, get set up by their families, or all Egy men? Do the two religions even get along with each other, do they themselves socialize together. Please all info would be appeciated, please do not comment on religion, as I pretty much understand both religions. I am just wondering about their social ideas and interactions with women. Also, we have all read about proper attire, do only Muslim Egy harrass the women, because according to their culture women are suppose to be more covered up, viewed only by their husbands. Or is this too an Egy thing. Do Christian women have a more western view on dressing, sex, social behavior? Thank you for all comments.

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I am working on your answers just give me time , ( quite sometime actually)
It is a very nice thread but full of questions.

but I will answer ....

Certainly am not saying so coz am looking for someone, but for two reasons:

1- All my answers is from my point of view, a view from a single man.
2- To understand the Christian point of view.

Now: As much as we may not want to admit it, our world is filled with good people who do bad things.

Now to your questions:
1- Orfi marriage is allowed for both Christian and Moslems, but remeber it is a legal issue, not a typical Christian issue, so for relegious it is not an option, as the Church says one wife for the man.
Either he is married, so will not be allowed for so, or he is single, so why to go for this option?

For non-relegious, it is ok, as a legal issue which will protect both of the wife and the husband.

First let me explain what is cheating?
What's interesting is what both men and the law define as "cheating".

At least that places a little more emphasis on the physical drive--- it's very precisely defined, that's why. A man considers another man cheating with his wife if she had sexual relations with that man.

A woman on the other hand may define cheating as an "emotional affair". Supposedly,it bothers women more than the guys if she sees her husband getting emotionally involved with another woman even in the absense of sex.

The problem there is that emotional involvement is the intrinsic definition of friendship, Where does one draw the line? It's not clearly cut as with sex.

Ok, do only Christian men who is cheating?

No, and big No, all men can cheat, no relation with relegion here, but cheating is not an option for real Christians, why?
Simply, coz they beleive that marriage is the relationship God made sex for, anything else is evil, and deadly.

Now, the conclusion about Christains, they cheat for the same reasons all other men cheat, non relegious may cheat more, relegious are less.

For Moslems the case is the same, also cheating is forbidden in Islam, so we can make them also relegious and non relegious.

Orfi marriage also in islam is only a legal issue, but the other option they have is just marrying another one, then third, and the fourth, then can divorce the first and go for new one.

Now finally
I heard an old tale about such a thing. This guy dies and goes to paradise to meet God for judgement. God says, 'have you lived a good life and worked hard?' The guy says, 'yes, I was married.' God nods his head and says 'Go on in, you deserve it.' The next guy in line overheard the conversation so when God asks him, 'have you lived a good life and worked hard?' The guy answers, 'Yes, I had two wives!' To which God replies 'Be gone! We'll have no fools in paradise.'

Not to make this post is so long, so will talk about other issues in a separate post.

"non relegious may cheat more, relegious are less"

actually i would contend that the opposite is the case - the reasoning behind this is the following:
very religous christians marry BEFORE they have sex and because they believe that marriage is god's will, in most cases they have not been co-habitinig and dealing with day-to-day routine.

non-religious people marry AFTER trying out a few men or women first and after probably living together for a few years.

therefore i would contend that non-religious people will probably live in a more fulfilling relationship as they had a more informed choice, and therefore be less prone to cheating than the religious type

sorry DJI, didn't mean to sidetrack your thread... just had this burning desire to clarify the above

jen

It is like asking How often does the average, healthy male think about sex?
(a) once a month, (b) once a week,
(c) once a day, (d) once an hour

I mean very open and challenging question.
But Ok, I will continue:

I will not agree on what are U saying, am here talking about Egypt and the Egyptian culture.

Ok, am half Greek, and half Egyptian, and if U wana to generalize, or talk about Greece, may be the case is different, and almost closed to what U mentioned above but with some concerns. But anyway U R right.
The Janus Report provides data to support the idea that "very religious" men are at greater risk for cheating than "just religious" men. It could well be that they repress their sexuality more and thus do not acknowledge their true sexual feelings.

I will not go deep into the subject of 'do religious men cheat or not', coz it is not a clear matter. How much they are religious, and also it is related to the community itself which they live in.

Back to Egyptian men, middle class men cheat less during their 20s but increase affairs through midlife and into their 50s. I hear U say why? simply because the option of a girlfriend lives with the guy is not possible (relegious community), and coz of the economic situation the option of paying money for grl streets is not the case.
This is from youth side, and for mid age side, Psychological and physical changes of mid-life increase the likelihood of cheating as boomers seek renewed youth, affirmation of attractiveness.

Finally, U grrrls who must take care, I think that most men cheat because they are not getting what they want at home or from that person that they are with, maybe they feel that they can find what they are missing from that one person and get it from someone else.

For relegious men, It's the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." It is the ultimate norm of high morality in our culture.

quote:

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Originally posted by Adoula:
Ok challenging Jen,

It is like asking How often does the average, healthy male think about sex?
(a) once a month, (b) once a week,
(c) once a day, (d) once an hour

I mean very open and challenging question.
But Ok, I will continue:

I will not agree on what are U saying, am here talking about Egypt and the Egyptian culture.

Ok, am half Greek, and half Egyptian, and if U wana to generalize, or talk about Greece, may be the case is different, and almost closed to what U mentioned above but with some concerns. But anyway U R right.
The Janus Report provides data to support the idea that "very religious" men are at greater risk for cheating than "just religious" men. It could well be that they repress their sexuality more and thus do not acknowledge their true sexual feelings.

I will not go deep into the subject of 'do religious men cheat or not', coz it is not a clear matter. How much they are religious, and also it is related to the community itself which they live in.

Back to Egyptian men, middle class men cheat less during their 20s but increase affairs through midlife and into their 50s. I hear U say why? simply because the option of a girlfriend lives with the guy is not possible (relegious community), and coz of the economic situation the option of paying money for grl streets is not the case.
This is from youth side, and for mid age side, Psychological and physical changes of mid-life increase the likelihood of cheating as boomers seek renewed youth, affirmation of attractiveness.

Finally, U grrrls who must take care, I think that most men cheat because they are not getting what they want at home or from that person that they are with, maybe they feel that they can find what they are missing from that one person and get it from someone else.

For relegious men, It's the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." It is the ultimate norm of high morality in our culture.

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Adoula

thank u for the above, yes that all makes sense -
but how many un-religious people live in Egypt? I cannot imagine very many? DO they abhere to the law in terms of no sex before marriage? (And to what extent do you think that holds truth in Greece)

Would you not agree that un-religious people or people with little religion would tend to marry into a mutually fulfilling relationship rather than someone whose religious obligation it is to get married?

Yes I am aware that day-to-day life in Egypt is subject to far more scrunity by family, neighbours, and the public (and I am guessing that this day-to day life is what DJI wants to know about).
However do you not think that human priciples (ie human nature of both men and women) are similar wherever you go to on this planet? And I do NOT mean the way that man and woman interact (as this is a direct result of their upbringing) but their nature.

regarding "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." It is the ultimate norm of high morality in our culture"

does that not apply to non-religious people in egypt? in western europe non-religious people have morals just like religious people (only they are not based on specific religious beliefs but rather a result of studying many religions and philosophers).

(point taken many people here DO have double standards and not many morals at all, but i would contend that these are often those Christians who call themselves religious for the simple reason that they go to church every sunday and then forget about this religion for the rest of the week)

i'm aware that generalisations only hold a certain amount of truth ... but what are your thoughts on the above?

Now, you've brought up an interesting subject. Do both relegions socialize to gether, the answer is yes, and big YES.

Egypt is a society that had many conflicts between Christians and Muslims in the past, but both religions have learned to live in peace together. I take this example of peace and respect very highly, as I meet and interact with people from all over the world. My respect for world cultures and traditions has grown immensely since attending the Ramadan and Christmas meetings.

My personal experiences with Muslims was a part of everyday life. Muslims are not only not a violent people, but that they are extremely peaceful, caring, and kind hearted.

The Islamic culture is a very tolerant culture as well. During my years in Egypt I have seen that Muslims have very high tolerance for certain things considered against their religious beliefs.

By living in a society that seems very strict I have actually become more open-minded. People who want to live in peace with one another can. Peace, love, and respect between Christians and Muslims was achieved in Egypt. I see this as a great personal example of how I should treat people I meet.

Is it Egy men in general that are a romantic threat or is it Muslim men, being that they are "allowed" to have more than one wife. I do not believe this is allowed in the Christian religion.

It's not about Egyptian men, Egyptian Muslim men, or Egyptian Christian men. You can find creeps who come from all nationalities and claim to follow any religion. I think if you check about any other touristic country where so many people go to, you will find similar stories of emotional or romantic threats from the natives. Maybe it's a little bit more in Egypt because people don't get to practice a full sexual freedom due to other reasons beside religions. An example to support what I say is a man who used to be a member of this board(most old members here would know), and he brags about how he has affairs with Egyptian females, and how that some of them think he would marry them. He gets what he needs from them and start looking for the next. He is not Egyptian.

Do the two differ in the way they view women? Do you want to explain this, please?

Do the Muslim men only, get set up by their families, or all Egy men?

All men. This is part of the Egyptian culture. Actually, come to think of it, both men and women get set up by their families.

Do the two religions even get along with each other, do they themselves socialize together.

In which sense? Egyptians from both religions live together perfectly. It's been like that for around 1400 years, and hopefully it will continue the way it has been and it is now.

Christianity is respected by Islam. Muslims are ordered to believe in Jesus and the bible. I don't know the Christian view on this point, though.

If you're talking about marriage, Muslim men are allowed to marry people of the book (Christian and Jewish women), but Muslim women are not allowed to marry anyone but Muslim men.

The conservative way of dressing, sex, and social behaviour has nothing to do with religion. It's a cultural element, with few exceptions, of course, like Muslim women have to be covered, like I'm sure you know.

Are you trying to tell me that Christian Egy men cheat for same reasons all men cheat, while Muslim Egy men do not "cheat", they just marry more women, legally or otherwise?

In a perfect world, a Chrisitan man will be married to his wife forever, and a Muslim man will have the right to marry other wives (within limits that I will not go through since you said you don't want to be discussing religions), and they both will not cheat. Why this or that cheats on his wife, is because they are men, and they chose to do the wrong thing.

Is "orfi" marriage only available for Muslim men?
Like said in another post above, this is a legal issue.

quote:

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Originally posted by DJI:
Dear Alabanda, THANK YOU!!!!!

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DJI, you're so welcome

Can I ask what were all these questions about? They didn't seem to be for personal interest, right?

My friend met a guy there. And now we have a lot of questions concerning this topic bcause he's christian egyptian guy. I do understand most things, customs, traditions of muslim man but as for christian in Egypt - know nothing. Please, help us

I got some info already but it seems to me like general info as for usual everyday life here i have this kind of questions:

For example, couple walks in the street, is it the same like with a muslim guy, they should have some paper in order that police can stop them or for christian it doesn't work?

as for staying in a hotel? can it be arranged to stay together or it's prohibited ?

as for traveling around the country, to go to different cities? can they go together? or it's better to keep aside or have some docs?

As for dressing? it's not prohibited to wear whatever the girl wants? to stay in a beach? to swim?

As i understand only muslim women cover their heads and christians - no? i mean in Egypt?

And as for intercourses before marriage is that ok? it's like everywhere in the world?

And as i understand if they marry, men cannot have any other marriages like orfi with other girls if just he's cheating mean meet with others and that's all?