quote:

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Originally posted by Adoula:
Ok Fanta and Jen,
But I still have something to say:

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Adoula:
CHINESE RELIGIOUS CONCEPTS AND WOMEN:
The Yin and the Yang is a concept quite familiar even in the west especially in merchandise. In their mythical theory of how the universe operates, Chinese philosophers invented the concept of the Yin and Yang. The universe they concluded is understood to be a balance of the Yin (evil or negative) and the Yang (good or positive).

When asked to further describe Yin (evil), the explanation comes:"The Yin is the negative
force in nature. It is seen in darkness, coolness, FEMALENESS, dampness, the earth, moon and the shadows. The Yang (good) is the positive force in nature. It is seen in lightness, warmness, MALENESS, dryness and the sun. (Hopfe 207)."

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From the most ancient times, men have insisted that women were responsible for male failure. Eve, after all, tempted Adam.

Women distract men from higher things. Women must be robed or segregated from men at prayer.

In recent years, Hollywood has suddenly become preoccupied with evil women. What used to be the stuff of low-budget movies -- women behind bars, with guns and knives -- bad women -- has become a Hollywood cliche. The hapless male, usually portrayed by Michael Douglas, is pursued by a deranged Sharon Stone or Glenn Close.

Is Adam tempting Eve? As women have assumed public life, one senses a growing female willingness to confront evil, certainly to reject the role of the "good girl," to be as bad as the boys. Is there, after all, a male anywhere in the world as bad as Madonna?

The most famous woman has been the Virgin Mary. I suppose, I have always regarded her less as a symbol of womanhood than as a model of the feminine principle in history, an example for men as much as for women.

A number of women I know find her version of holiness too tender, too maternal. Hindu goddesses, by comparison (think of Kali, punisher of unfaithful husbands), while often as tender as Mary are also fearsome beings.

Not coincidentally, a new interest is emerging among Christian feminist theologians in Mary Magdalene, the whore who was befriended by Christ, the street woman who becomes the first evangelist.

I think women are evil, yes. More specifically, I think misguided feminists are evil. However, I never said women were less than anyone. To me, evil does not equal "less." I wanted to point out some of the more irritating aspects I find in them.

So let's agree to disagree if you don't like what I'm saying. I am but one person in this world of billions. I do think there are a few good things about women as well....lol

quote:

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Originally posted by msjen:
oh dear, i was dreading that you might find this info...
as the above aws surely written by a man, I would like to remember you of your own words: women alyways know what a man thinks BETTER than himself. let me advise you that the above was supposed to mean the opposite, the man just didn't have the courage to put the truth in words and now GENERATIONS of chinese people believe exactly those words

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Jen, the first thing one must remember about a woman is that she knows everything. This is without exception.

To go as far as say that a woman knows what you are thinking is not unrealistic. If, at any point of time, you are unsure of what you are thinking, one of the best ways to find out is to ask the nearest woman.
But, unfortunately, there is a drawback to asking a woman such a question.

This drawback is that she, in all probability, will answer. And once a woman starts talking, it is very rare that she will ever stop. I believe this has something to do with the way that women think. Women believe that as long as they are talking, people listen to her. Of course, listening to a woman talk can be very tedious at times.

It is OK not to listen to her as long as you nod your head in agreement and say Uh-huh every now and then. This makes the woman think you are listening and therefore she is happy.

quote:

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Originally posted by Adoula:
Monica,
Thanks for encouraging me.
Hopeully I can continue this trend of adding some thoughts to this topic:

From the most ancient times, men have insisted that women were responsible for male failure. Eve, after all, tempted Adam.

Women distract men from higher things. Women must be robed or segregated from men at prayer.

In recent years, Hollywood has suddenly become preoccupied with evil women. What used to be the stuff of low-budget movies -- women behind bars, with guns and knives -- bad women -- has become a Hollywood cliche. The hapless male, usually portrayed by Michael Douglas, is pursued by a deranged Sharon Stone or Glenn Close.

Is Adam tempting Eve? As women have assumed public life, one senses a growing female willingness to confront evil, certainly to reject the role of the "good girl," to be as bad as the boys. Is there, after all, a male anywhere in the world as bad as Madonna?

The most famous woman has been the Virgin Mary. I suppose, I have always regarded her less as a symbol of womanhood than as a model of the feminine principle in history, an example for men as much as for women.

A number of women I know find her version of holiness too tender, too maternal. Hindu goddesses, by comparison (think of Kali, punisher of unfaithful husbands), while often as tender as Mary are also fearsome beings.

Not coincidentally, a new interest is emerging among Christian feminist theologians in Mary Magdalene, the whore who was befriended by Christ, the street woman who becomes the first evangelist.

I think women are evil, yes. More specifically, I think misguided feminists are evil. However, I never said women were less than anyone. To me, evil does not equal "less." I wanted to point out some of the more irritating aspects I find in them.

So let's agree to disagree if you don't like what I'm saying. I am but one person in this world of billions. I do think there are a few good things about women as well....lol

---

quote:

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Originally posted by msjen:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Adoula:
[b]Ok Fanta and Jen,
But I still have something to say:

---

and i would like to point out that you are not responding to our posts but merely bringing in new information!!! [/B][/QUOTE]

No Jen, it is childish attempt from non Muslims to use this topic to try to disprove the validity of Islam. They claim that since Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him claimed what he saw in hell regarding most of the people in hell were women, then therefore Islam is a sexist religion that discriminates against women.

FFirst, we need to understand that Prophet Muhammad did not sentence any man or woman to hell or heaven.

He only said what he saw. It was not of his own opinion. If Allah Almighty throws many women in hell because of their wickedness, then it is not Prophet Muhammad to be blamed.

If you have a problem with this issue, then all I can tell you is to complain to GOD Almighty about it.

The Bible also mentioned something like this:

Let us look at Ecclesiastes 25:22 "Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die." (from the Catholics Bible).

In Hindu religious literature by far, the most effective weapon used by the Gods to corrupt virtuous mortals is a woman. Usually a seductive celestial nymph but sometimes just woman, the root of all evil in the ascetic oriented view of the orthodox Hindu (Baldick, Radice, Jones 36).

The Mahabharata states, "I will tell you my son, how Brahama created wanton women and for what purpose, for there is nothing more evil than women... The Lord Grandfather, learning what was in the hearts of the Gods, created wanton women by a magic ritual in order to delude mankind.. (13.40.3-10)"

Hey Jen,
I hope I succeeded to convince U to convert into a male......lol

quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
I read and smile, read and smile...no comments on this 'evil' issue today...just keep writing, and maybe...eventually...you might see my 'humble' opinion again...he he he!

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Oh Monica,
Thanks God that U read and smile, but all what I do is that am trying to convince U to write and reply......But poor Adoula, still unsuccessful..lol

quote:

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Originally posted by Adoula:
Women distract men from higher things. Women must be robed or segregated from men at prayer.

Well I would like to say the contrary - men FEEL distracted by women. This is not by intention of the women and therefore it is unfair to blame her.

In fact, some explicit comments on women BY men are very insulting to many women. They imply that we have a place on this planet purely to please or displease men. That upsets many women, including myself.

In recent years, Hollywood has suddenly become preoccupied with evil women. What used to be the stuff of low-budget movies -- women behind bars, with guns and knives -- bad women -- has become a Hollywood cliche. The hapless male, usually portrayed by Michael Douglas, is pursued by a deranged Sharon Stone or Glenn Close.

That has a purely commercial background - the simple reason is that the theme of evil and brutal men is already overexploited. I bet you a million dollars that the next theme will be brutal girls and boys in child age - aparently that turns a proportion of the population on, too. By the way the film directors and writers of these movies are mostly men ...

Is Adam tempting Eve? As women have assumed public life, one senses a growing female willingness to confront evil, certainly to reject the role of the "good girl," to be as bad as the boys. Is there, after all, a male anywhere in the world as bad as Madonna?

This is merely an over-reaction - we learn that we will not get anywhere if we are as good as we want to be. We simply follow the example of men, in order to survive. Now you tell me who is the SOURCE of this evil?

The most famous woman has been the Virgin Mary. I suppose, I have always regarded her less as a symbol of womanhood than as a model of the feminine principle in history, an example for men as much as for women.

A number of women I know find her version of holiness too tender, too maternal. Hindu goddesses, by comparison (think of Kali, punisher of unfaithful husbands), while often as tender as Mary are also fearsome beings.

Not coincidentally, a new interest is emerging among Christian feminist theologians in Mary Magdalene, the whore who was befriended by Christ, the street woman who becomes the first evangelist.

what do you think is the reason for that?

I think women are evil, yes.

More specifically, I think misguided feminists are evil. However, I never said women were less than anyone. To me, evil does not equal "less." I wanted to point out some of the more irritating aspects I find in them.

Well yes, misguided feminists are evil, true. Let me tell you that I met a woman who had a go at a man who was so kind to open the door for her! That is misguided. Also, my mother's colleague had a go at a male colleague who was so kind to offer his assistace to open a bottle of champagne during an office party - her reply was that she can do that herself and she doesn't need men for that. That is truly misguided, it is a matter of courtesy and not of male domination to open a door or a bottle of bubbly.

However let me tell you of one of the discussions I had with some of my clients this week: we were discussing a case study of recruiting the best person for a sales job. the choice was a 40 year old woman, a 30 year old woman, and a 50 year old man.

the 30 year old woman had the best qualifications and the most relevant experience.
One of the men in my group said that she was clearly the best qualified of the three of them but he would never recruit her because she is a 30 year old woman.

He is a senior executive of a company and made no secret of the fact that he wouldn't recruit a woman into a senior position if she is 30 years old, no matter how many times she has proven her ability to succeed.

Adoula, please tell me, how are women supposed to react? Do you think that is fair?

So let's agree to disagree if you don't like what I'm saying. I am but one person in this world of billions. I do think there are a few good things about women as well....lol

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
Jen, the first thing one must remember about a woman is that she knows everything. This is without exception.

To go as far as say that a woman knows what you are thinking is not unrealistic. If, at any point of time, you are unsure of what you are thinking, one of the best ways to find out is to ask the nearest woman.

Ever heard of telepathy?

But, unfortunately, there is a drawback to asking a woman such a question.

This drawback is that she, in all probability, will answer. And once a woman starts talking, it is very rare that she will ever stop. I believe this has something to do with the way that women think. Women believe that as long as they are talking, people listen to her. Of course, listening to a woman talk can be very tedious at times.

It is OK not to listen to her as long as you nod your head in agreement and say Uh-huh every now and then. This makes the woman think you are listening and therefore she is happy.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Adoula:
Hey Jen,
I hope I succeeded to convince U to convert into a male......lol

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i am a male!

just joking, but you really conviced me

I hope readers have a sense of humour...we're joking here... but in reality who knows who is who???

And that reminds me of freeman: your gender please!?

Where is that man?

quote:

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Originally posted by msjen:
i am a male!

just joking, but you really conviced me

[This message has been edited by msjen (edited 20 November 2003).]

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And U said "Well I would like to say the contrary - men FEEL distracted by women. This is not by intention of the women and therefore it is unfair to blame her.

In fact, some explicit comments on women BY men are very insulting to many women. They imply that we have a place on this planet purely to please or displease men. That upsets many women, including myself".

And I would like to say:
But hope U do not deny that some women may distract some men, and some men
may inhibit some women--and also that some men may distract other men, and
some women may inhibit other women.

I said: "In recent years, Hollywood has suddenly become preoccupied with evil women. What used to be the stuff of low-budget movies -- women behind bars, with guns and knives -- bad women -- has become a Hollywood cliche. The hapless male, usually portrayed by Michael Douglas, is pursued by a deranged Sharon Stone or Glenn Close".

U said "That has a purely commercial background - the simple reason is that the theme of evil and brutal men is already overexploited. I bet you a million dollars that the next theme will be brutal girls and boys in child age - aparently that turns a proportion of the population on, too. By the way the film directors and writers of these movies are mostly men ..."

And I would like to say: Ok, I agree to bet, and will see, but please prepare your Million Dollars....lol

I said "Is Adam tempting Eve? As women have assumed public life, one senses a growing female willingness to confront evil, certainly to reject the role of the "good girl," to be as bad as the boys. Is there, after all, a male anywhere in the world as bad as Madonna?"

U answered "This is merely an over-reaction - we learn that we will not get anywhere if we are as good as we want to be. We simply follow the example of men, in order to survive. Now you tell me who is the SOURCE of this evil? "

And I will say:
The relationship between Adam and Eve was a failure when they did not trust in God. Verse 26 of chapter 1 says that God made man in His own image and that He made man male and female. This passage of the Bible teaches the equality of man and woman. Marriage is a partnership.

The man is not above the woman and the woman is not above the man but both have an authority over each other and a submission to each other, with both being under the supreme authority of God (I Cor. 11:11-12). It appears that the problem with Adam and Eve’s relationship as recorded in Genesis is that they both failed to fulfill their responsibilities toward each other in their decisions to eat the fruit.

The Bible says to flee temptation; this is the most sure way to avoid sinning. Eve obviously did not know this concept. But also in a marital relationship when any decision is made by one spouse it will inevitably effect the other spouse to a minor or major degree. When Satan tempted Eve she knew that it was against the commandment of God to eat the fruit.

And she did not consult her husband for advice before making that disastrous decision. She did not rely upon her husband for advice and guidance but rather made a selfish decision thinking only of the lies which Satan promised. She thought of herself and what she would get out of eating the fruit. She was selfish. She should have asked God first, her husband second, and herself last.

It is tempting to blame Adam and say that he should have been keeping closer watch of his wife to protect her, but unless Adam and Eve were aware of Satan, Adam had no reason to be concerned because they both lived in the paradise of God. Even so it was Adam’s responsibility to watch over his wife.

I wrote: "The most famous woman has been the Virgin Mary. I suppose, I have always regarded her less as a symbol of womanhood than as a model of the feminine principle in history, an example for men as much as for women.

A number of women I know find her version of holiness too tender, too maternal. Hindu goddesses, by comparison (think of Kali, punisher of unfaithful husbands), while often as tender as Mary are also fearsome beings.

Not coincidentally, a new interest is emerging among Christian feminist theologians in Mary Magdalene, the whore who was befriended by Christ, the street woman who becomes the first evangelist".

U asked: "what do you think is the reason for that?"

And I would like to reply:
Four pieces of Gospel evidence strongly point to Mary Magdalen as a temple priestess of the Goddess.

Next, Mary is known as a prostitute, just as the Goddess priestesses were titled "Sacred Prostitutes," although a more recent and accurate translation titles them "Sacred Women" or "hierodulae" (B, p. 29). Such prostitutes were considered evil by Jewish leaders of the time.

The Cult of the Magdalen, forced underground, is linked to the Cult of the Black Madonna, which thrived in France and elsewhere in Europe. There has been much speculation as to the origin of the Madonna's blackness. One link is to Sarah "The Black Queen," believed to be the child of Mary Magdalen, brought out of Egypt.

Some of the Black Madonnas were originally statues of Isis, such as The Black Virgin of Notre Dame du Puy.

There has been a revival of interest in the Black Madonna. One modern devotee has this to say about her:

"Through the Black Madonna's interaction in my life, I am finally able to say, 'Enough pain, enough wounding. It's over, the hurting is over. I am perfect the way I am, and that doesn't mean I don't make mistakes. It means that in my humanity, even my mistakes are perfect."

Carla Curio

quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
No wonder we get along...I'm a male too...he he he..;-))

I hope readers have a sense of humour...we're joking here... but in reality who knows who is who???

And that reminds me of freeman: your gender please!?

Where is that man?

---

lets hope not in iraq
he posted a thread to find out if we still miss him and when he got confirmation he disappeared again ... typical man !

Et'halakt, haram aleik...( I am tired now, have mercy) ;-)

QUOTE]Originally posted by Adoula:
[b]Ok Jen,
I said "Women distract men from higher things. Women must be robed or segregated from men at prayer".

quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
I guess I'll have to take a couple of days off work, in order to respond to these evil issues...

Et'halakt, haram aleik...( I am tired now, have mercy) ;-)

QUOTE]Originally posted by Adoula:
[b]Ok Jen,
I said "Women distract men from higher things. Women must be robed or segregated from men at prayer".

[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 20 November 2003).]

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Ok, ok
Take your time but I would like to hear your opinion.

I will base my opinion on real life stories; I guess you'll have to take my word for it;-)

Tesbah ala kheir, Adoula!

(Translation: hope you wake up well, or an expression used in Egypt for, Guten nakht...Buona notte, Good night, Bonne nuit, Buenas noches)

Monica

quote:

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Originally posted by Adoula:
Ok, ok
Take your time but I would like to hear your opinion.

---

As it is the weekend now, I shall step aside from this discussion and let Monica provce my point (no pressure, Monica, but beware, Adoula answers only to the points of your arguments in which he sees a weakness, all your good points will be cordially ignored!)

So far as per my information from the Bible, I can’t think of a single angel who is a woman. The biblical angels have male names--Gabriel and Michael and Raphael.

I have to admit that I have always preferred the company of women to men (probably because I don't like football)....lol

If you are a male, you will find that there are many wonderful and unexpected advantages in having a colleague or a friend who is a woman.

So, what I like about women.

Hmmm... I'll just list stuff at random.

1- Different way of seeing the world. Without getting into the whole logical thing, it is true that women (or at least the ones I know) just see things differently than men. They notice different angles or aspects of a situation that most men will miss, and having women involved on projects (work, planning a camping trip, whatever) helps broaden my view.

2- Most women are really beautiful, for starters. But beauty isn't the issue. Beauty doesn't necessarily make a great companion or a great friend. Indeed, sometimes beauty can twist a woman's personality. But most of them seem to be able to deal with it.

3- Most women are givers, too, and seem to have a natural consideration. They also know how to understand the language spoken by children, which is an enormously useful skill.

4- I like the grace with which many woman walk and move. They simply float on air at times.

And mostly, I love the way a woman smiles. No matter how beautiful or not she is, when a woman sincerely smiles, it's brighter than a star!

5- I like the noises they make. Guys only talk, yell, or grunt. Women make little chirps, sighs, and bird noises, along with having marvelous inflections in their speech. I have about four inflections - Churchill, Hitler, Roosevelt, and Cletus. The average woman, in contrast, is an opera singer. They also do all these little things with their head and posture that I totally miss. Where'd they ever learn this stuff?

When a man and a woman get together the outcome can be very funny, whether they are married or not.

And remeber: in the beginning, God created earth and rested. Then God created man and rested. Then God created woman. Since then, neither God nor man has rested.

OK, so why on earth do you want my opinion my friend? khallass - over- you are convinced already; and why should I speak incessantly (he he he that is sooo evil by the way!) and sound like a beeeeeee...bzzzzbzzzbz in your angelic ear, and of course totally lose your attention at one point...

Khaleena esshab ahssan ( better to keep this friendship )

Wala eih???? ( or what?)

In all good (evelish) spirit ;-))

your friend,

Monica

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
Hi Monica,
If U will give me a real life stories, I can give U hundreads.

When a man and a woman get together the outcome can be very funny, whether they are married or not.

And remeber: in the beginning, God created earth and rested. Then God created man and rested. Then God created woman. Since then, neither God nor man has rested.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
From the most ancient times, men have insisted that women were responsible for male failure. Eve, after all, tempted Adam.

---

"I always found it funny when someone said women are worse because it was their sin that people has to leave the Garden of Eden because it was Eve who made Adam eat the forbidden fruit. Now think of it, it took Satan himself to make the woman doing something wrong, and it took only a woman to make the man commit this sin... so who is better?" -- originally posted by me at EgyptTalk (it is interesting that the same topics come up on all three boards -- it is clear that most of us visit all of them

quote:

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Women distract men from higher things. Women must be robed or segregated from men at prayer.

---

Women distract men while men do not disctract women = men have a dirty mind while women can concentrate on other things than sex even if a male is near.

quote:

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In recent years, Hollywood has suddenly become preoccupied with evil women.

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I don't see how does it prove that women are evil. You know not everything you see in movies is true. (well... who knows, maybe we are living in the Matrix after all?)

quote:

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Is there, after all, a male anywhere in the world as bad as Madonna?

---

Bush. Bin Laden. Hitler. Stalin. Nero. Charles Manson. Jack the Ripper. I think these guys have done worse things than making some awful songs and music videos.

quote:

---

Mary Magdalene, the whore who was befriended by Christ, the street woman who becomes the first evangelist.

---

I guess that was more than friendship

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
Jen,
Ok, I will agree with U that women are not evils, so do U think they are angels????

Yes, angels we are!

So far as per my information from the Bible, I can’t think of a single angel who is a woman. The biblical angels have male names--Gabriel and Michael and Raphael.

I think you'll find them on earth and not in heaven

I have to admit that I have always preferred the company of women to men (probably because I don't like football)....lol

If you are a male, you will find that there are many wonderful and unexpected advantages in having a colleague or a friend who is a woman.

So, what I like about women.

Hmmm... I'll just list stuff at random.

1- Different way of seeing the world. Without getting into the whole logical thing, it is true that women (or at least the ones I know) just see things differently than men. They notice different angles or aspects of a situation that most men will miss, and having women involved on projects (work, planning a camping trip, whatever) helps broaden my view.

2- Most women are really beautiful, for starters. But beauty isn't the issue. Beauty doesn't necessarily make a great companion or a great friend. Indeed, sometimes beauty can twist a woman's personality. But most of them seem to be able to deal with it.

3- Most women are givers, too, and seem to have a natural consideration. They also know how to understand the language spoken by children, which is an enormously useful skill.

4- I like the grace with which many woman walk and move. They simply float on air at times.

And mostly, I love the way a woman smiles. No matter how beautiful or not she is, when a woman sincerely smiles, it's brighter than a star!

5- I like the noises they make. Guys only talk, yell, or grunt. Women make little chirps, sighs, and bird noises, along with having marvelous inflections in their speech. I have about four inflections - Churchill, Hitler, Roosevelt, and Cletus. The average woman, in contrast, is an opera singer. They also do all these little things with their head and posture that I totally miss. Where'd they ever learn this stuff?

---

How lovely Adoula, you just made up for those remarks earlier on. This reminds me of another goodie in women: we forget and forgive quickly

But I'm sure this are not our only advantages??? Please keep them coming
oh and by the way it is ok to exaggerate slightly

well ok to be honest men have some advantages, too. as many women would agree, it is sometimes easier for women to have male friends than to have female friends. the reasons are:

1 - they have this rational way of thinking

2 - you have an argument but once you have reached a compomise the heated argument is FORGOTTEN

3 - you can just 'hang out' without actually having to do anything, apart from playing backgammon of course

4 - if you're upset about something (eg work) you can go for a booze-up with a aman and after that the whole thing is forgotten and you move on (sorry to all muslims, please fo not be offended by the fact that alcohol is mentioned, however, it does belong to our culture)

5 - they are not pretentious, i.e you can say what you mean AND EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN and they won't be offended

6 - but if they are offended they will tell you without making a big fuss...

ok, Adoula, of course I would agree with you that women are wonderful and that men do have some nice characteristics, too!

Let me post a short text. I 'borrowed' it from a 12 years old (daughter of a dear friend).

"We once lived in a great land, a land of happy people with happy stories. But then to our horror, a group of hideous creatures invaded our lands...All they did was bully us and boss us around... Until one day we got very mad and decided to stand up for our happy land, and we started a fight for our right, and that led to a war, that led to injuries and death, and many tears from mothers and fathers and children.... Evil caught up with all of us. Can we ever defeat our troubles? There is not much time, but I have hope!"

"Neveen"

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
Hi Monica,
If U will give me a real life stories, I can give U hundreads.

When a man and a woman get together the outcome can be very funny, whether they are married or not.

And remeber: in the beginning, God created earth and rested. Then God created man and rested. Then God created woman. Since then, neither God nor man has rested.

---

[QUOTE]Originally posted by msjen:
[B] How lovely Adoula, you just made up for those remarks earlier on. This reminds me of another goodie in women: we forget and forgive quickly

JAWOHL, devilishshshshshhhhh

OK, so why on earth do you want my opinion my friend? khallass - over- you are convinced already; and why should I speak incessantly (he he he that is sooo evil by the way!) and sound like a beeeeeee...bzzzzbzzzbz in your angelic ear, and of course totally lose your attention at one point...

Khaleena esshab ahssan ( better to keep this friendship )

Wala eih???? ( or what?)

In all good (evelish) spirit ;-))

your friend,

Monica

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
Seriously, my opinion has not changed much...I truly believe that it depends on our own experiences with both genders. In some cases, more men are evil in certain aspects, and the opposite is also true.

Let me post a short text. I 'borrowed' it from a 12 years old (daughter of a dear friend).

"We once lived in a great land, a land of happy people with happy stories. But then to our horror, a group of hideous creatures invaded our lands...All they did was bully us and boss us around... Until one day we got very mad and decided to stand up for our happy land, and we started a fight for our right, and that led to a war, that led to injuries and death, and many tears from mothers and fathers and children.... Evil caught up with all of us. Can we ever defeat our troubles? There is not much time, but I have hope!"

"Neveen"

[QUOTE]Originally posted by msjen:
[B] How lovely Adoula, you just made up for those remarks earlier on. This reminds me of another goodie in women: we forget and forgive quickly
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 21 November 2003).]

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But REALLY PEOPLE COME ON... A BATTLE OF THE SEXES Isn't it just a little passé ???
Lizbeth

Egyptian 5 years old girl: I'm the beautiful princess and you are the prince.
Egyptian 5 years old boy: No. I'm the King.
Egyptian 5 years old girl: Ok. I'm the beautiful princess and you're the beautiful king, and you have to rescue me.
Egyptian 5 years old boy: Yes. You are locked in an awful big castle, and you cry all the time because your father locked you up.
Egyptian 5 years old girl: No. A dangerous creature locked me up, not my father.
Egyptian 5 years old boy: And it's all tall and bad and you look out of the window, and see me riding on my white horse, to rescue you.
Egyptian 5 years old girl: Booooo booooo, rescue me, my king.
Egyptian 5 years old boy: But say first that I'm the handsomest, and the bravest, and the wonderfulest king you ever saw, and that you will love me forever:
Egyptian 5 years old girl: OKAY OKAY, but rescue me please!

In all good spirit, as usual...

Monica

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
Hi Monica,
If U will give me a real life stories, I can give U hundreads.

When a man and a woman get together the outcome can be very funny, whether they are married or not.

And remeber: in the beginning, God created earth and rested. Then God created man and rested. Then God created woman. Since then, neither God nor man has rested.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
Adoula, I feel like sharing a very short 'Egyptian' little story - that could also be considered universal -

---

Monica, so what are we to lean from that?

a) boy and girl find common ground ealisy, OR
b) boy and girl only want to play if the other accepts their 'rules', ie the boy will only play IF the girls tells him how great he is and the girl will only play IF the boy play according to her rules, OR
c) boy and girl have their pre-concptions as to how they are to socially interact with one another (ie boy strong rescuer and girl weak princess)..., OR
d) ...

any suggestions?

personally i think the boy was more evil than the girl, as he wanted to put her through horror before rescuing her and becoming her hero ...

In traditional stories, folk or fairy, boys get the active roles.

It does not matter where the stories originate.

Girls either get support roles or they are princesses, often becoming ‘princessified’ during the story. Of course, this doesn’t happen if they are ugly or have large feet.....lol

Anyway, to be to the point, I think this girl was more evil than the boy....lol

The girl wanted the boy to rescue her, without knowing if he is ready for that or not, she wanted him to fight the big creature to rescue her, and do not want to tell him the he is the best king to encourage him....

U see she was an evil even in the story...lol

1- Power trips, deranged minds, crucial circumstances, survival, and finally weakness, play a role in activating the evil in people

And...

2- The weaker gender -at time of evil action- is probably the most evil!

Also, at time of evil action, the weaker gender could be:

a) the one that needs to control to feel powerful, but is in reality weak and shallow and will probably win the battle over an ignorant, naive other... until that other wakes up and takes action...probably evil too.

b)the one that manipulates by pretending to be weak, giving the egotistic one a field trip, but reaching the goal by machination and manipulation, therefore, winning the battle, until the other one wakes up etc...etc...

And my friends, I'm convinced that both genders take those roles at some point and time.

Solution:

1)When you sense that you're about to be attacked by a VERY evil one, if diplomacy doesn't work - which could also be considered evil -then...ruuuuuuuuuuun ...move out, change name, change game, change all. Fight back only if, you are capable of as much evil .......before it's too late that is!

2) When in turn YOU sense the urge of BEING evil attacking you, if you still have some sense, seek professional help.

Some will say that prayers calm the bad spirits, others say yoga, exercice, work, good deeds, travel, education etc..etc..etc... the options are all there, if you really want to get the evil out of you, whoever you are! Try them all and adopt what suits you.

If you are a survivor of evil actions, you could write a book and make some cash in compensation if and only if, you get hold of an evilish publisher.

Adoula , msjen and all the contributors on this thread:
Peace....

Salam!

Monica

quote:

---

Originally posted by msjen:
Monica, so what are we to lean from that?

a) boy and girl find common ground ealisy, OR
b) boy and girl only want to play if the other accepts their 'rules', ie the boy will only play IF the girls tells him how great he is and the girl will only play IF the boy play according to her rules, OR
c) boy and girl have their pre-concptions as to how they are to socially interact with one another (ie boy strong rescuer and girl weak princess)..., OR
d) ...

any suggestions?

personally i think the boy was more evil than the girl, as he wanted to put her through horror before rescuing her and becoming her hero ...

Adoula would you agree with me on this point?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aaliyah:
I guess that was more than friendship

BTW Adoula I'm not attacking you, I just enjoy quarrelling in a civilized manner which is a refreshing change after the things that happen on ET in these days.

---

Hi Aaliyah,
No matter what women might achieve in the world, the message of Genesis warns men not to trust them, and women not to trust themselves or each other. Whoever she might be and whatever her accomplishments, no woman can escape being identified with Eve, or being identified as her.

Attempts have also been made to correct the popular belief that Eve was a temptress who tempted Adam into eating the fruit despite the fact that according to Genesis 3:6, after she ate the fruit herself, she then "gave some to her husband and he ate."

Eve "tempted, beguiled, lured, corrupted, persuaded, taught, counseled, suggested, urged, used wicked persuasion, led into wrongdoing, proved herself an enemy, used guile and cozening, tears and lamentations, to prevail upon Adam."

So what do U think now??

Ok, as I said before I just posted this to check others opinions.

Both good & evil in the hearts of men and women.

We do not need more million dollar church buildings built while people still have these old fashioned thoughts. We do need a change of heart and a humble acknowledgment that this nation was founded on the principle of simple trust in God!

And if someone proved that women are evil:
Women = Time x Money
Time = Money
Women = Money x Money
Money = Route of Evil
Women = Route of Evil x Route of Evil
Women = Evil

Honestly , I am not to proud to ruin this equation, but I should remind this man that from a properly algebrical point of view , he is WRONG.
Here is the reason:
General stuff: sqrt(sqr(x))=abs(x) and here is an exemple: sqrt(sqr(-2))=sqrt(4)=2=abs(-2)
So sqrt(sqr(evil))=abs(evil) and from a methaphorical point of view , the term evil is a negative value.
Therefore , abs(evil)=not evil=good
So , WOMEN ARE GOOD

I have the proof that men are even worst than Evil. http://www.anvari.org/fun/Gender/Proof_That_Men_Are_Even_Worse_Then_Evil.html

Great sense of humour, Adoula!!!

Monica

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
Dear Monica,

Ok, as I said before I just posted this to check others opinions.

Both good & evil in the hearts of men and women.

We do not need more million dollar church buildings built while people still have these old fashioned thoughts. We do need a change of heart and a humble acknowledgment that this nation was founded on the principle of simple trust in God!

And if someone proved that women are evil:
Women = Time x Money
Time = Money
Women = Money x Money
Money = Route of Evil
Women = Route of Evil x Route of Evil
Women = Evil

Honestly , I am not to proud to ruin this equation, but I should remind this man that from a properly algebrical point of view , he is WRONG.
Here is the reason:
General stuff: sqrt(sqr(x))=abs(x) and here is an exemple: sqrt(sqr(-2))=sqrt(4)=2=abs(-2)
So sqrt(sqr(evil))=abs(evil) and from a methaphorical point of view , the term evil is a negative value.
Therefore , abs(evil)=not evil=good
So , WOMEN ARE GOOD

I have the proof that men are even worst than Evil. http://www.anvari.org/fun/Gender/Proof_That_Men_Are_Even_Worse_Then_Evil.html

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
Wallahy!?

Great sense of humour, Adoula!!!

Monica

---

To Wiccans, evil is a relative term, not an absolute. But Moslems and Christians have a conception of evil as something absolute.

What bothers me is that it is NOT to build a good society which is defining women as an evil.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaah, but wait
As a woman I would like to ask U: Have you ever noticed that the number of Evil women are much more higher than the number of Evil men??..lol

This is just a strategy to let Monica talk more................lol

Your 'competition' question got me talking for sure...check it out!

And by the way, when a woman is evil...she is really really really really evil...beware! he he he...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
To Wiccans, evil is a relative term, not an absolute. But Moslems and Christians have a conception of evil as something absolute.

What bothers me is that it is NOT to build a good society which is defining women as an evil.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaah, but wait
As a woman I would like to ask U: Have you ever noticed that the number of Evil women are much more higher than the number of Evil men??..lol

---

Beleive me, talk of what evil men can do. It is beyond reason.

Where is evil Jen??

Just kidding

Men (as in men and women) are contradictory creatures. They need to eat, drink, sleep and mate like any other animal. On the other hand, they also exhibit some traits no other creature has in terms of organization of human society, the ability to think and feel emotions far beyond animal instincts.

Also, human children require the longest and most careful period of loving care from their parents in order to develop properly. No animal requires this much time to mature.

(not to mention that despite this great care some of us do not really mature after all )

... but, imperfect as men are, no two people are endowed with the same degree of spirituality and "animality" - is this word correct?

The long years of development are meant to prepare the individual to negotiate his duality in his own mind. The same person can spend hours listening to Beethoven in concert or making love. Is one of the two more "evil" than the other? The answer is no. As Gandalf put it in "The Lord of the Rings", all we can do in our life is decide what to do with our time that is left to us.

So in the time left to us, shall we nurture our animal or our spiritual side? The answer to this question is the reason behind many religions. And yet the answer is simple: BOTH

We are naturally drawn to one side more than the other. A few people are more connected with the spiritual side. Some reach extremes. Einstein was a genius. However he looked like someone with other things on his mind than women.

The worse, I think, is for a person not to know her own limits, not accept hersef for who she is and not discipline herself in order to become what she wishes to become.

Most people, I think, are lazy and drawn to the animal life. If allowed, they will spend all day eating, drinking, smoking perhaps making sex (and perhaps shopping - I know a few people like that) and generally pampering the animal inside. These activities, however, do not bring money and the necessary things to live. So the lazy person must discipline herself in order to survive, and must limit or postpone some activities in favor of others. This is an act of spirituality because this decision comes from the brain, not the animal side. And it is a decision many people are not happy with.

If someone is adult, they will understand and assume responsability for themselves. If not, so they try to blame someone.

Since traditionally women were at home with the children, the man had to work. He had to discipline himself. So he blames the woman for "distracting him from his work" SUCH BULLSHIT.

So what do men say - you distract me from my work? It is actually the other way around. Work distracts men from more pleasureble passing of time.

Dear men, for once in your life admit it.

Lori

By the way Lori, did you get the email I sent today? if not I will send it again!

But we have a nice issue on the 'competition thread page 7 and 8. Please take a look if you'd like, and join the discussion.

Monica

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lori:
Well my two cents in all this "evil" stuff:

Men (as in men and women) are contradictory creatures. They need to eat, drink, sleep and mate like any other animal. On the other hand, they also exhibit some traits no other creature has in terms of organization of human society, the ability to think and feel emotions far beyond animal instincts.

Also, human children require the longest and most careful period of loving care from their parents in order to develop properly. No animal requires this much time to mature.

(not to mention that despite this great care some of us do not really mature after all )

... but, imperfect as men are, no two people are endowed with the same degree of spirituality and "animality" - is this word correct?

The long years of development are meant to prepare the individual to negotiate his duality in his own mind. The same person can spend hours listening to Beethoven in concert or making love. Is one of the two more "evil" than the other? The answer is no. As Gandalf put it in "The Lord of the Rings", all we can do in our life is decide what to do with our time that is left to us.

So in the time left to us, shall we nurture our animal or our spiritual side? The answer to this question is the reason behind many religions. And yet the answer is simple: BOTH

We are naturally drawn to one side more than the other. A few people are more connected with the spiritual side. Some reach extremes. Einstein was a genius. However he looked like someone with other things on his mind than women.

The worse, I think, is for a person not to know her own limits, not accept hersef for who she is and not discipline herself in order to become what she wishes to become.

Most people, I think, are lazy and drawn to the animal life. If allowed, they will spend all day eating, drinking, smoking perhaps making sex (and perhaps shopping - I know a few people like that) and generally pampering the animal inside. These activities, however, do not bring money and the necessary things to live. So the lazy person must discipline herself in order to survive, and must limit or postpone some activities in favor of others. This is an act of spirituality because this decision comes from the brain, not the animal side. And it is a decision many people are not happy with.

If someone is adult, they will understand and assume responsability for themselves. If not, so they try to blame someone.

Since traditionally women were at home with the children, the man had to work. He had to discipline himself. So he blames the woman for "distracting him from his work" SUCH BULLSHIT.

So what do men say - you distract me from my work? It is actually the other way around. Work distracts men from more pleasureble passing of time.

Dear men, for once in your life admit it.

Lori

---

You probably know some of Robert Burns poetic lines:

Robert Burns wasn’t the first—nor will he be the last—to draw upon analogies to describe the opposite sex.

Women are gorgeous, sensual, wonderfully contradictory creatures that drive men absolutely batty. If women didn’t exist… men would never bathe and would be drinking beer, watching ESPN around the clock, never accomplishing anything worthwhile.

He said: Women are like… onions. They make you cry, even when you peel their wrappings off.

But wait, on the other hand, it is often said (usually by women :-) that men are inconsiderate, lack perception and sensitivity, and are not particularly observant.

Women remain more personal in their interests and less concerned with abstractions than men on the same level of intelligence and culture.

While men are happily generalizing, making judgments on this and that, and forgetting for the time being themselves and all their concerns, women are brooding over the particular and personal application and are wondering what hidden motive, what secret desire, what stifled memory of joy or hurt, are there prompting our thought.

But this habit of mind in women does not spoil talk; on the contrary it improves it, restoring the balance. . . . It is the habit of men to be overconfident in their impartiality, to believe that they are god-like intellects, detached from desires and hopes and fears and disturbing memories, generalizing and delivering judgment in a serene mid-air.

Granted, we are as different as Mars versus Venus, apples and oranges, or night and day. But think about it: planets are planets, fruit are fruit, and time is time. Are we really so different after all?

Now to the Evil point:

Shall we nurture our animal or our spiritual side?

I believe that every human has their own unique path to knowing God, to remembering God and the Divine in all beings, and within themselves. I also believe we each have a unique path to learning how to love and be loved. For some of us, this path is lined with animals--being with them, near them, exchanging love with them, being guided and inspired by them, at times just looking at them.

To become truly human we need to understand that we are one with all things.

There is an interesting quote;
The function of Theosophists is to open men's hearts and understandings to charity, justice, and generosity, attributes which belong specifically to the human kingdom and are natural to man when he has developed the qualities of a human being. Theosophy teaches the animal-man to be a human-man; and when people have learned to think and feel as truly human beings should feel and think, they will act humanely, and works of charity, justice, and generosity will be done spontaneously by all.

A wonderful vision this. If we act from our true nature, the higher part of our nature, then we will truly function as human beings and develop an undying love for all things. The true Path lies in widening the sphere of our Love.

The wise man knows the Self,
And he plays the game of life,
But the fool lives in the world
Like a beast of burden.

This means that he who has realized that the Self is everything and has attuned himself to the permanent part of his nature, sees life as a game which has to be played by its rules, while the "fool," which is another name for the ignorant, lives in the world like a beast of burden, getting stressed out about every little thing that he or she regards as being of importance.

I know it well, one who lives a life of material wealth or intellectual glory, though they may be lauded in this life, are spiritually bankrupt, whereas one who lives a quiet, anonymous life—studying spiritual literature, meditating and trying his or her best to help and inspire others, is gaining the true wealth. Such people are becoming "human" and finding that the real heaven is in the human heart and in the beauty and understanding gained from breaking down the barriers mentioned on my other message.

These are qualities that may seem a long way from our lives, but they are the principles that make us human.

But to all my Evil Wise friends:

Of course these are all ideals to be worked towards.

So what can we do in this crazy life to reach such wisdom?

quote:

---

Originally posted by msjen:
Can't believe you Adoula, you finally admitted that men are more evil than women !!!

happy jen

---

ALMOST got back in myself...lol
They are Evil, but the point is who is better, GOOD OR EVIL?

------------------
Regards
adoula777@yahoo.com

Neither men nor women are evil. Men and women need each other for companionship, comfort, and just plainly to prove we are human and live in a society.

Yet many people seem to think other people are evil. If you don't have any friends, you spend time in chat rooms and bingo! you've got "friends". You can turn them off at the push of a button and there are no dirty coffee cups to wash when they leave. Do you think women are evil but want some sex? There is a wide choice of substitutes from videos to inflatable dolls and possibly other stuff too, I am not a specialist. And here same thing, no emotional baggage, no need for cuddling afterwards and no breakfast in the morning.

WHAT A SHITTY WAY TO LIVE

My point is that this kind of thinking and behaving stems from a deep fear of people. If we go out and meet people, our friendship may be rejected, and we fear that. If the opposite sex rejects us, the pain is double because we feel it twice as deep.

But if we don't accept people as they are and we don't go out there and make friends and fall in love and take a risk and discover ourselves in the process, what else is there?

Personally I think that hiding behind pre-conception and avoiding the company of real live people of whatever gender for whatever reason is a pathetic way to live. People are as they are. Good AND evil. This is what makes them interesting and this is what makes life worth living.

Ashkar said something along the line of not wanting a perfect man for fear she would then have to be perfect as well. I coulnd't agree more.

There is a saying that it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

The great William Wallace, as quoted by Mel Gibson in Braveheart, said: "ALL PEOPLE DIE, BUT NOT ALL PEOPLE LIVE".

Go out there and meet people and fall in love and LIVE for God's sake! Enjoy the company of people, with the good and evil they have in them. Although the ancient Egyptians thought otherwise, we can only be sure to live ONCE. So live!

Lori

Monica (waiting to see the reaction!)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lori:
Robert Burns, a lovely poet, lived two hundred or so years ago. Mentalities change.

Neither men nor women are evil. Men and women need each other for companionship, comfort, and just plainly to prove we are human and live in a society.

Yet many people seem to think other people are evil. If you don't have any friends, you spend time in chat rooms and bingo! you've got "friends". You can turn them off at the push of a button and there are no dirty coffee cups to wash when they leave. Do you think women are evil but want some sex? There is a wide choice of substitutes from videos to inflatable dolls and possibly other stuff too, I am not a specialist. And here same thing, no emotional baggage, no need for cuddling afterwards and no breakfast in the morning.

WHAT A SHITTY WAY TO LIVE

My point is that this kind of thinking and behaving stems from a deep fear of people. If we go out and meet people, our friendship may be rejected, and we fear that. If the opposite sex rejects us, the pain is double because we feel it twice as deep.

But if we don't accept people as they are and we don't go out there and make friends and fall in love and take a risk and discover ourselves in the process, what else is there?

Personally I think that hiding behind pre-conception and avoiding the company of real live people of whatever gender for whatever reason is a pathetic way to live. People are as they are. Good AND evil. This is what makes them interesting and this is what makes life worth living.

Ashkar said something along the line of not wanting a perfect man for fear she would then have to be perfect as well. I coulnd't agree more.

There is a saying that it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

The great William Wallace, as quoted by Mel Gibson in Braveheart, said: "ALL PEOPLE DIE, BUT NOT ALL PEOPLE LIVE".

Go out there and meet people and fall in love and LIVE for God's sake! Enjoy the company of people, with the good and evil they have in them. Although the ancient Egyptians thought otherwise, we can only be sure to live ONCE. So live!

Lori

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
Where is evil Jen??

---

EVIL??? MOI????

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
So what can we do in this crazy life to reach such wisdom?

---

If you ask me I would check with some guy who calls himself Adoula, he normally knows everything

quote:

---

Originally posted by msjen:
If you ask me I would check with some guy who calls himself Adoula, he normally knows everything

cold jen in the horrible weather

---

Yes, William Wallace said: "ALL PEOPLE DIE, BUT NOT ALL PEOPLE LIVE".

And I would like to say: so what do U think if people try to live?

I will assure U, they will be disappointed....

Well, that's one lesson you gotta learn in this life: don't expect anything to turn out the way you think it is. Your expectations could get shot down.

So it is better to put this quote on its other form: Live Free or Die Trying

To live free of such ties, or die trying to reach an answer.

Now to the other point, U asked if men think that women are Evil, and want to make sex with them?

The answer is yes..let me explain

Do U know, Why do women fall in love? We know why us men fall in love. We fall in love with the great sex that women provides.

It isn't brain surgery. We all know that to be a fact. When you fall in love with a woman it isn't about how well diverse she is in Roman history, it is because she can do a good sex. There is a reason why God made it so that women can get pregnant.

Same for women, U think that a woman wants a man who is caring and sweet.

Let me say that this was 200 yrs ago, when girls were girls, men were men, and "power to the people" was more than a cutesy catchphrase for the young and pointlessly restless. I'm talking about a time when your family raised you instead of your school, a time when dad worked for one company for 30 or 40 years and got a gold pocket watch when he retired.

But now.....huh
We all want what we don't have. We see the rich people on television and we want to be like them. We see famous people who act in movies and we pretend to be like them. We see men slam dunking a basketball and we wish we could do it.

The same is true with a woman. She wants what she doesn't have. She is already emotional, she doesn't need more of that. She is already loving and kind, she doesn't want to get more of that. Have you ever looked at the big burley biker guy who has a hot chick next to him and wonder how he got her? I mean the guy looks like he hasn't bathed in a year and probably couldn't write a complete sentence if he was forced to. Women like the big macho guys. Men who strut their stuff and act like they don't give a damn about anyone but themselves. Guys who act like this bang more women than you can count. Why? Why you ask that these guys get laid all the time? It is two reasons really.

One is that women are looking for something to fill the void. They have a gap inside them and they need someone to fill it. They don't need another woman, they need a real man who can take care of them. They want a man to protect them. After all, people are just animals. She wants a man who can take charge and protect her from the evil inside her and from the world. She wants to be a helpless damsel in distress. Some women like a man who has been around sexually. That drives them wild. If they think you are a stud, then you will be able to please them in bed.

I think this goes back to the animal qualities in people. If you have had sex with lots of women, then you have passed on your genes to a lot of women. If this is the case, then you are a superior male. Only a superior male would get laid so many times in the animal world.

And U still asks if a man don't have friends, so why he go to chat rooms or bingo and not to go to women.

The answer is simple, because they are evil creatures, so it is better to men if they live free and not to die trying.

------------------
Regards
adoula777@yahoo.com