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Author Topic: What does it take to be an Egyptian?
Malcolm-X
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Hello Everyone,
I'd like to apologize if I'm going to write up a long message, but your messages and thoughts that I have been reading for the last month or so encouraged me to take this opportunity to share some of my humble thoughts with you.

I've been reading with great interest most of the messages sent on this forum. I admit (to be honest) that I came across the forum when I was searching for Egyptian ladies living abroad and what they do, but I found that the forum could be a good place to have some constructive discussions. Well, firstly, I'm an Egyptian (27 years old just in case somebody wonders) living and working mostly in Ireland, although I spend a couple of months in the UK and the US each year. I'm a design engineer for one of those major research companies.

Undoubtedly we all love Egypt, either living in it, away from it, or just visiting it for days, but I always wondered if that is really a true love, or just fascination by what Egypt offers, Shouldn't true love mean that we have to do, to the best of our abilities, whatever we can to make it a better place?. Certainly, I'm in no position to impose my thoughts or preach, but I'm just thinking out loud with you all, it seems that there is a long way to go before we can say that Egypt is a better place, and in saying better place, I mean, some aspects that are lagging way behind, I wonder every morning when we wake up, what do we think about?. Do we have some mission to live up to? or Are we just living each day to its own?, I'm no different from anyone here, I always ask the same question, but I think I always find the answer, I always want to go back to Egypt and make it a better place,
and speaking for myself and my career, there is a great deal to be done, scientifcally at the least.

Rest assured that we do have some of the finest minds in the world, and just look around you if you are abroad for Egyptians in key positions, and believe me we share the same passion for this country, we always think about what we can do for her, we always wake up in the morning and dream about Egypt being the leading country in everyone's field, we always ask ourselves what does it really take to be an Egyptian?.

Thanks for your patience and I hope I didn't bore you with my less than humble thoughts.

Salam.
M-X


Posts: 18 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Marching
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You are an Egyptian if you were born and raised in Egypt. It doesn’t matter if your ancestors were not Egyptian. It also doesn’t matter if you love Egypt or not. It doesn’t matter if you are a good person on not by any standard. It also doesn’t mater what you do or you don’t do. What matters is that you spent your formative years in Egypt and that you were immersed in the Egyptian culture.

This is the way I see it any way.


Posts: 59 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Shareen
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For what its worth, I replied in the Visting Egypt thread
Posts: 1196 | From: www.spiritofthenile.com | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sciencesailor
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Yes; "some aspects that are lagging way behind" is a skilfull & diagnostic description of our present status, both as individuals and government. I do see a change (at least there is a desire) for the better/rightous taking place in the government. It's hard to judge whether the entire Egyptian population becoming aware of the necessity for a change/meeting the current aggressive intervening foreign challenges in the very roots of our national integrity (education/religion) or not? The passive attitude/extreme selfishness that both nourished in the last three decades couldnot be wiped away in a year or two. As outside of Egypt, inside our homeland you find scattered smart Egyptians everywhere do their jobs with honesty and desire to have better Egypt. The net result of this hard-to-define status is a modest( actually low) rate of growth of our gross national income. Yes, inspite of that, I am still optimistic that our country can meet the challenges and cross the bridge to be a devolped nation. Your username (Malcom-X) surprise me, you (whether male/female) seem as mature well-educated and civilized person, but that name, as far as I remember from my previous readings, was of an extremist African American Muslim used guns in NewYork or Boston streets in crashes with the police. Arent you afraid from being taken by the FBI agents to Guantanamo prison? Just kidding. Salam.
Posts: 182 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Malcolm-X
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Well, thanks sciencesailor for your "well-versed" message. To answer your question regarding Malcolm-X, you are right that he was a gangster at some point in his life (I've no similarity to him whatsoever in that part of his life), but he became one of the finest thinkers in America and probably the whole world when he reached the truth, and that change from one end of the spectrum to the other, is what I like, no political, revolutionary or any other motivations whatsoever here , for more information, there is a comprehensive site about him: http://www.malcolm-x.org/.

There are many challenges ahead, but I was just interested to see how it is possible to get the momentum and the people to tackle them, I agree that there is a lot going on now, and there is a lot of reform that the government is willing to undertake, and I'm really excited to see that, it might be the turning point in our lives, despite all the lots of work ahead, there seems to be something that you could wake up and live up to each morning, but, to tear down the saying that you often here that "Egyptians talk a lot and do little", we have to move to practical steps, I know I'm being hypothetical here, but let's just think now, this moment, what everyone could do to help ourselves and our great country.


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sciencesailor
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Before entering the link to Malcom-X to see what they offer to help us, the Moslems, facing the clashes of civilizations and the greed of the present "Global/Multinational" Empire to swallow the leftovers of the deceased Othman Empire, I can recall now that I read a book (in the seventies, I think) about Malcom-X written by Alex Haley, the author of the novel "Roots", as far as I remeber. I wonder why the Cinema (movies) industry in Egypt didn't make a picture of this man, I think Holywood did make a film about him, anxious to see it. Anyway, I am trying hard to stay the same person that used to measure the people with their intellect and ethics regardless of their religion/gender/skin color/nationality. This is the greatest time for cultural /religous prejudicies and glad to find a person as pure as your thoughts do reveal. Keep up writing. Salam.
Posts: 182 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zenya
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You know what really makes me laugh is when an Egyptian lives outside Egypt and states HE LOVES EGYPT,
I am wondering if you love Egypt so much why aren't you living here and enduring what others are on a daily basis??
I hear this all the time I LOVE MY COUNTRY and this is from Egyptians living OUTSIDE.
Thanks for the HAHA

Posts: 49 | From: Egypt | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Malcolm-X
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Dear Zenya,
Thanks for your reply. It is really against my nature not to address any matter in an objective way, and the point that you have raised is no different, especially because you are the first person to point out that because I'm living outside Egypt, I basically can't say that I love my country, and I want to do something for it, and also, despite the seriousness of the matter, I'm not sure why that in its own made you laugh.

The answer to your question is really simple, and I'll just put a case infront of you, you had 2 choices, stay in Egypt and have a moderate opportunity to excel in your career; business (I presume that would be your area) in Egypt, or an opportunity to be at the cutting edge of your business career abroad with people who are the best in the world to do business and there are a lot more to learn in that opportunity given that you were more than talented or top of your class or whatever, Which one are you going to choose if your intentions are going to be and will still be to benefit your country and its people at some point along your career?. I think the answer will be quite simple and it won't take away a a glimpse of your loyality to Egypt or your love for it but in fact it will add a lot more.

Your argument that if I love Egypt, then I should live in it and endure all the problems that anybody would and don't move anywhere else even if I see that in moving away, I can benefit it by orders of magnitude, in my opinion, is not a solid argument and doesn't apply fairly to the common sense.

Thanks again for your reply.
M-X



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Zenya
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Thank you for your reply,
To make it short, I came here for Islam and my husband, both became a joke, the business was also part of the reason but not the main reason that too became obvious to me being a Muslim woman and not getting the respect I deserve and which I did have in USA I will not give anymore of my efforts here or for this country or Islam, it's a dead end for me here and I feel humanity has yet to reach this part of the world and I refuse to change to adjust to this culture or country, I want to be ME and I will not become someone else for anyone or any country.
Enough said.

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Nefertiti
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quote:
Originally posted by Zenya:
Thank you for your reply,
To make it short, I came here for Islam and my husband, both became a joke, the business was also part of the reason but not the main reason that too became obvious to me being a Muslim woman and not getting the respect I deserve and which I did have in USA I will not give anymore of my efforts here or for this country or Islam, it's a dead end for me here and I feel humanity has yet to reach this part of the world and I refuse to change to adjust to this culture or country, I want to be ME and I will not become someone else for anyone or any country.
Enough said.

Hi Zenya

Do you have Cairo blues? I don't mean to pry and obviously you don't know me, but if you ever need to talk/email then i will listen and give advice if you like. Try not to let it get you down


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Nefertiti
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quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm-X:

Undoubtedly we all love Egypt, either living in it, away from it, or just visiting it for days, but I always wondered if that is really a true love, or just fascination by what Egypt offers, Shouldn't true love mean that we have to do, to the best of our abilities, whatever we can to make it a better place?.

Egypt has much to offer and the only barrier that i can see at this present time is 'some' of the people that live here! In my opinion some of them try their best to make life difficult for themselves and others! With most situations in life there is an easy way and a difficult way to do things and get results..... what have i noticed? Many people (and so far for me that's the majority i come across!) take the difficult route..... simple conversations, simple instructions, simple requests, simple everything...... they take the hard way! So at this stage of my life in Egypt i have ceased to have sympathy for the situation of many here.

quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm-X:

Rest assured that we do have some of the finest minds in the world, and just look around you if you are abroad for Egyptians in key positions,

Exactly! Egyptians are intelligent people.... i spent my first few months here completely puzzled as to why the country was not moving forward and was in such a rut, when it had such great people! Now i don't wonder anymore.... everytime i see someone making a simple thing difficult i shake my head and mentally mark ANOTHER person who is holding the country back.

In my opinion you can never underestimate the power of small things in the bigger picture.

People here like to blame everything on politics.... well to me that's a cop out! Like i said above, small things make a difference, for example politics has nothing to do with having courtesy for fellow road users - pedestrians, cyclists and other cars. Politics has nothing to do with not throwing rubbish over balconies into the street. Politics has nothing to do with telling someone you CAN NOT do something instead of leading then in circles and up the garden path, THEN telling them "well actually i can't do that"! People need to start with some simple manners and decency to each other then maybe Egypt can become a better place!

And a final note to all of the defensive Egyptians that read this board and may decide to jump on me for this post.... THIS IS MY OPINION and it is also shared by many of the Egyptians that i know who sometimes wonder how they have been born here, lived here all their life and still can't understand why their own people make life so difficult!!!!!

In the past month or so i have been asking myself why i bother staying here when i could easily go to another country or even back to my own country? Well.... i love Egypt and i am learning to step over the 'difficulties' and get on with life. Alhamdullah, i'm not one that allows stupidity to get in my way!


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sally
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quote:
Originally posted by Nefertiti:
Exactly! Egyptians are intelligent people.... i spent my first few months here completely puzzled as to why the country was not moving forward and was in such a rut, when it had such great people! Now i don't wonder anymore.... everytime i see someone making a simple thing difficult i shake my head and mentally mark ANOTHER person who is holding the country back.

In my opinion you can never underestimate the power of small things in the bigger picture.

People here like to blame everything on politics.... well to me that's a cop out! Like i said above, small things make a difference, for example politics has nothing to do with having courtesy for fellow road users - pedestrians, cyclists and other cars. Politics has nothing to do with not throwing rubbish over balconies into the street. Politics has nothing to do with telling someone you CAN NOT do something instead of leading then in circles and up the garden path, THEN telling them "well actually i can't do that"! People need to start with some simple manners and decency to each other then maybe Egypt can become a better place!

And a final note to all of the defensive Egyptians that read this board and may decide to jump on me for this post.... THIS IS MY OPINION and it is also shared by many of the Egyptians that i know who sometimes wonder how they have been born here, lived here all their life and still can't understand why their own people make life so difficult!!!!!

In the past month or so i have been asking myself why i bother staying here when i could easily go to another country or even back to my own country? Well.... i love Egypt and i am learning to step over the 'difficulties' and get on with life. Alhamdullah, i'm not one that allows stupidity to get in my way!


how refreshing to read.
i totally agree with you.
if the people start to try fixing the small day to day things, then (en sha'allah) the bigger stuff should follow.
as you said, taking a bit of extra care when driving or not chucking litter are perfect examples.


Posts: 129 | From: cairo | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Monica
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Hi Nefertiti,

I really respect your personal opinion and I'm not challenging it, I would like to add though that based on facts and figures as well as on my own observations, Egypt has actually moved forward if compared to 5, 10, 15 and 20 years ago.

The mountains of garbage used to be even more humongous than now, and people were even more frustrated, then.

Things improve very slowly in a country with a population of 70 million, within a very insecure economy, and with continuous battles and wars and complications around the region.

Surely, if everyone would start by cleaning their own personal act, there could be a better outcome in the long run, but that goes for the entire planet. It's certainly related to the geographical, demographical and political issues of a country. And by all means let's not forget the environment. Also, if you compare Alexandria to Cairo, you will notice a great difference in administrational organization, and particularly in regards with the simple 'litter' issue. The mayor has a totally different approach in governing the city.

Here is a site for interested members and readers in regards with Egypt' demographics etc... http://reference.allrefer.com/country-guide-study/egypt/egypt65.html

In anycase, there's no such thing as a perfect place in this world, it's all related to where you find your own comfort zone/personal paradise.

You seem to have found yours!
Best wishes always...

Salam
Monica

[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 12 January 2004).]


Posts: 2385 | From: Heliopolis, Cairo, Egypt | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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