...
EgyptSearch Forums Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» EgyptSearch Forums » Living in Egypt » WHY DO MOSLEMS SACRIFICE ANIMALS

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: WHY DO MOSLEMS SACRIFICE ANIMALS
sokarya@hotmail.com
Member
Member # 5853

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for sokarya@hotmail.com     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Is it right that animals should be sacrificed to God? and why is it done?
Posts: 431 | From: luxor egypt | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
melfenien
Member
Member # 4903

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for melfenien     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's not right. We should sacrifice ourselves, not decide in this way about others - humans or animals.
Posts: 274 | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kitakat18
Junior Member
Member # 5977

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for kitakat18     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
lol i find myself in all these discussions!!! The muslims sacrifce animals such as sheep for Allah because the Prophet Ibrahim(Abraham)was told by Allah to bring his son to be sacrificed, and as Prophet Ibrahim believed in Allah he did bring him to be sacrificed even though it was his precious son. This was a test to see the Prophets belief in Allah and a testiment of his faith. When he brought him, Allah did put a sheep to be sacrificed in the place of his son.It is same story in Christianity. This is why during festivals, weddings and specials events lambs and such are sacrificed in the halal way and Bismillah urahman urahim is said to bless the animals in Allahs name and to make them halal(Blessed for consumption). They are not just killed and left to rot. They are eaten and their bodies used in many ways.
Posts: 27 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sokarya@hotmail.com
Member
Member # 5853

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for sokarya@hotmail.com     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hello everyone. Abrahams dream (or revelation from God) was that he was to sacrifice his own son, Isaac. It was common practise to sacrifice humans up to this point in time. This was called the "great sacrifice" because the ram was substituted for Isaac for a number of various reasons. The pre-christians also did similar things, only they sacrificed as well as children, bulls and lambs. It was part of an initiation process whereby the initiate would stand under the "alter" and get washed in the blood of the lamb or whatever it was. This practice however ceased in Christianity, when Jesus himself became the sacrificial victim for all time. Islam, however, did not recognise the principle involved, either literally or symbolically, and at the start of Islam several hundred years later, animal sacrifice was reintroduced.

However, Kitakat informs us that sacrifices of lambs are made because the Koran says this is to be done. The Koran also says many other things should be done, with regard to capital crimes for instance. Why is it, therefore, that animal sacrifice has been retained and other things have been re-interpreted or written out or ignored?

The answer "why" has still not been satisfactorily answered. Can anyone else add to the debate?
Charlie


Posts: 431 | From: luxor egypt | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sokarya@hotmail.com
Member
Member # 5853

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for sokarya@hotmail.com     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dear Melfenien, thank you for your post. You seem to take the Christian view that Christ was the sacrifice in a symbolic way, and that you interpret this to mean to sacrifice yourself as the Christ within. In other words to sacrifice your Human Nature (body) to your higher or Divine Nature (represented symbolically as Christ dying on the cross).

I feel that this is what you mean, but please correct me if necessary. Charlie


Posts: 431 | From: luxor egypt | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
melfenien
Member
Member # 4903

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for melfenien     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You're right Charlie, that's what I mean.
Best regards to you

Posts: 274 | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ah_farrag
Member
Member # 4717

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted      Profile for ah_farrag   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi all
I'm going to tell u all the story of
SACRIFICE in Islam :
First We will talk about SACRIFICE feast ( Al Adha Feast )

Second ; The Concept of Animal Sacrifice in Islam
.............................................

Overview:
Eid-Ul-Adha (a.k.a. the Feast of Sacrifice or Day of Sacrifice) is observed after the Hajj -- the annual pilgrimage to Makkah (Mecca) in Saudi Arabia.
A duty of each Muslim, as described in the Five Pillars of Islam, is to go on a Hajj at least once once during their lifetime, unless they are prevented by finances or ill health.

When is it celebrated?
Eid-Ul-Adha is observed after the conclusion of the Hajj.

Its significance:
"The celebration of Eid-Ul-Adha is in commemoration of the command give by Allah to Prophet Abraham (may Allah be pleased with him) to sacrifice his first born son Ishmael to Him. The fulfillment [sic] of this noble command of Allah by Abraham signifies his faith in Allah...."
.............................................

Actually, there are many misconceptions filling the mind of many non-Muslims, who fail to perceive the significance and wisdom behind acts of worship in Islam. That is why addressing those misconceptions becomes obligatory in order to erase distortions about Islam. Thus, on the case in point, we find it relevant to cite for you the following:

“Sacrifice is not a pillar of Islam. We must look at the occurrences in a contextual manner, understanding not only the pre-Islamic institution of sacrifice, the Qur'anic reforms concerning this practice, and the continuance of sacrifice in the Muslim world, but also the context in which the Qur'anic revelations occurred. For it seems that with many people, both non-Muslims and Muslims alike, context is the key that they are missing.

With this in mind, let us start with the situation as it was in pre-Islamic Arabia with regard to animal sacrifice. Not only did the pagan Arabs sacrifice to a variety of gods in hopes of attaining protection or some favor or material gain, but so, too, did the Jews of that day seek to appease the One True God by blood sacrifice and burnt offerings. Even the Christian community felt Jesus to be the last sacrifice, the final lamb, so to speak, in an otherwise valid tradition of animal sacrifice (where one's sins are absolved by the blood of another).

Islam, however, broke away from this longstanding tradition of appeasing an "angry God" and instead demanded personal sacrifice and submission as the only way to die before death and reach "fana’" or "extinction in Allah." The notion of "vicarious atonement of sin" (absolving one's sins through the blood of another) is nowhere to be found in the Qur'an. Neither is the idea of gaining favor by offering the life of another to Allah. In Islam, all that is demanded as a sacrifice is one's personal willingness to submit one's ego and individual will to Allah.

One only has to look at how the Qur'an treats this subject, to see a marked difference regarding sacrifice and whether or not Allah is appeased by blood. The Qur'anic account of the sacrifice of Isma`il ultimately speaks against blood atonement. Allah says: “Then when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "Oh my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "Oh my father! Do As thou art commanded: Thou wilt find me, if Allah so wills one practicing patience and constancy!" So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice), We called out to him, "Oh Abraham! Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" Thus indeed do We reward those who do right. For this was obviously a trial and We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice.” (As-Safat: 102-107)

Notice that the Qur'an never says that Allah told Abraham to kill (sacrifice) his son. Though subtle, this is very important, for the moral lesson is very different from that which appears in the Bible. Here, it teaches us that Abraham had a dream in which he saw himself slaughtering his son. Abraham believed the dream and thought that the dream was from Allah, but the Qur'an never says that the dream was from Allah. However, in Abraham and Isma`il's willingness to make the ultimate sacrifice—Abraham of his son, Isma`il of his own life—they are able to transcend notions of self and false attachment to the material realm, thus removing a veil between themselves and Allah, enabling Allah's mercy to descend upon them as the Spirit of Truth and illuminate them with divine wisdom (thus preventing a miscarriage of justice and once and for all correcting the false notion of vicarious atonement of sin).

For, certainly, Allah, the Ever Merciful, Most Compassionate, would never ask a father to go against His command of "thou shall not kill" and kill his own son in order to be accepted by Him. For the Qur'an teaches us that Allah never advocates evil (see 7:28 and 16:90) and that only Satan advocates evil and vice (24:21). The notion that Allah would want us to do an immoral act runs counter to Allah's justice.

As far as the yearly tradition that has followed this event (that is, the sacrificing of a ram to commemorate Abraham and Isma`il's great self sacrifice), we must understand it and the Qur'anic versus that pertain to animal sacrifice, in relation to the time and place circumstances under which these revelations were received and how people were trying to make a personal sacrifice by sharing their limited means of survival with the poorer members of their community.

That is to say, the underlying implication of Islam's attitude toward ritual slaughter is not that of blood atonement, or seeking favor with Allah through another's death, but rather, the act of thanking Allah for one's sustenance and the personal sacrifice of sharing one's possessions and valuable food with one's fellow humans. The ritual itself is NOT the sacrifice. It is merely a method of killing where the individuals kill as quickly as possible and acknowledge that only Allah has the right to take a life and that they do so as a humble member of Allah's creation in need of sustenance just like every other species in Allah's creation.

So let us examine some of the appropriate verses in the Qur'an to see what it has to say about sacrifice and how it related to life in 500 C.E. Arabia. (Also included is commentary by Yusuf Ali to show that even someone who was pro-sacrifice with an understanding of animals as subject to humans, did not champion wanton cruelty or notions of blood atonement.) Allah says: “In them ye have benefits for a term appointed: In the end their place of sacrifice is near the Ancient House.” (Al-Hajj: 33)

“The word ‘In them’ refers to cattle or animals offered for sacrifice. It is quite true that they are useful in many ways to humans, e.g., camels in desert countries are useful as mounts or for carrying burdens or for giving milk, and so, for horses and oxen; and camels and oxen are also good for meat, and camel's hair can be woven into cloth; goats and sheep also yield milk and meat, and hair or wool. But if they are used for sacrifice, they become symbols by which people show that they are willing to give up some of their own benefits for the sake of satisfying the needs of their poorer brethren." (Yusuf Ali commentary)

Allah also says: “To every people did We appoint rites (of sacrifice) that they might celebrate the name of Allah over the sustenance He gave them from animals (fit for food). But your God is One God: Submit then your wills to Him (In Islam): and give thou the good news to those who humble themselves.” (Al-Hajj: 34)

“This is the true end of sacrifice, not propitiation of higher powers, for Allah is One, and He does not delight in flesh and blood, but a symbol of thanksgiving to Allah by sharing meat with fellow humans. The solemn pronouncement of Allah's name over the sacrifice is an essential part of the rite." (Yusuf Ali commentary)

Allah says further: “ It is not their meat nor their blood, that reaches Allah: it is your piety that reaches Him: He has thus made them subject to you, that ye may glorify Allah for His guidance to you: And proclaim the Good News to all who do right.” (Al-Hajj: 37)

“No one should suppose that meat or blood is acceptable to the One True God. It was a pagan fancy that Allah could be appeased by blood sacrifice. But Allah does accept the offering of our hearts, and as a symbol of such offer, some visible institution is necessary. He has given us power over the brute creation, and permitted us to eat meat, but only if we pronounce His name at the solemn act of taking life, for without this solemn invocation, we are apt to forget the sacredness of life. By this invocation we are reminded that wanton cruelty is not in our thoughts, but only the need for food …" (Yusuf Ali commentary)

It is quite clear from the Qur'anic passages above that the issue of animal sacrifice is in relation to the role animals played in Arabian society at that place and time (as well as other societies with similar climates and culture), in that humans are commanded to give thanks to Allah and praise Allah for the sustenance He has given them and that they should sacrifice something of value to themselves to demonstrate their appreciation for what they have been given (which in their case was the very animals on which their survival was based).”


Posts: 674 | From: Cairo,Egypt | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sokarya@hotmail.com
Member
Member # 5853

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for sokarya@hotmail.com     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ah Farrag has given a very interesting interpretation that the sacrifice is a thanksgiving to God for the food which he provides. There is no mention of the "soul" anywhere in this explanation nor the spirit of God. I will provide another, somewhat briefer, interpretation after I had had a chance to think about it in more depth. Thank you for this contribution. Charlie
Posts: 431 | From: luxor egypt | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kitakat18
Junior Member
Member # 5977

Rate Member
Icon 3 posted      Profile for kitakat18     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Salam,
ah farrag thank you for clarifying this. i did not know all of the details and was looking for this answer. You have made this very clear for me and now i know how to reply to this question if asked in future.

Posts: 27 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sokarya@hotmail.com
Member
Member # 5853

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for sokarya@hotmail.com     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi, Well, we have at least one very interesting interpretation of "the Great Sacrifice". My first comment is that the son to be sacrificed was Isaac, not Ismael, or I suppose I have an untrue copy of the Koran?

Let me just say that it was called the "great sacrifice" because henceforth the ritual sacrifice was to replace that of human victims.

A deeper meaning of the aspect of this sacrifice is that the child symbolically represented the soul (or interior reality) of Abraham his begetter. Hence the sacrifice itself signifies the sacrifice of ones self, with his son representing his interior reality, and the ram the exterior world. For some Moslems at least then, when a sacrifice is made of a lamb it represents the substitute sacrifice of Abraham of his son, which symbolically represents"son of man".

For the Christians, the Great Sacrifice was the Word of God upon the cross, and a celebration of this sacrificial lamb being the eucharist. For the Christians as for the Moslems the great sacrifice signals the end of human sacrifice but for Moslems this is transposed into the ritual killing of Lambs, and for the Christian, the Eucharist.

This is oversimplified, but this is so that it will be easily understood, which I hope it is.
Other points of view would be welcome. Charlie


Posts: 431 | From: luxor egypt | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
germansara
Member
Member # 5920

Rate Member
Icon 6 posted      Profile for germansara     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes, Charly,
you have a wrong copy of koran .
the son who had to be sacrificed was ISMAIL
and not Isaac!!
Salam
Sara

Posts: 909 | From: Germany/Egypt | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sokarya@hotmail.com
Member
Member # 5853

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for sokarya@hotmail.com     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes, everyone, I could almost guarantee I would have the wrong Koran. The same thing seems to happen when I get hold of the "wrong" Bible. I just never seem to get hold of the right ones!
Oh well, then we shall just have to agree it was Ismael. I suppose thats got nothing to do with the fact that Ismael, and Not Isaac was to be the first of the ancestral line of the Moslems, and that Isaac was the father of the Jews? I have a copy of the Koranic text going back to the l5th century, and in there it definitely says Isaac. But never mind, they keep changing things in the Bibles as well. Charlie

Posts: 431 | From: luxor egypt | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ah_farrag
Member
Member # 4717

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted      Profile for ah_farrag   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hello Charlie
According to Islam Believes, the son to be sacrificed was Ishmael (Ismail).
And the holy Quran doesn’t mention his name clearly, but he is not Isaac (peace upon them all). Any way according to Islam Teachings, Moslems have to respect and believe in all the messengers and prophets of Al-Lah (God), and they are equal.
One more thing I would like to highlight it. According to Bible stories, the son to be sacrificed was Isaac, and Christians believe in. So this is an example for a difference between both the HEAVENLY religions Islam and Christianity
Thank u
Ahmed

[This message has been edited by ah_farrag (edited 06 December 2004).]


Posts: 674 | From: Cairo,Egypt | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sokarya@hotmail.com
Member
Member # 5853

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for sokarya@hotmail.com     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hello, This is about a divergence of opinion between what al farrag believes and what I believe is or should be meant by the Great Sacrifice. I have spoken of it as a spiritual thing, and indeed al farrag agrees me on that although fails to admit it. Previously he said that God said to Abraham when he agreed to make the sacrifice "Oh Abraham thou hast ALREADY fulfilled the vision."

This means that because Abraham had submitted his self (ego) to God, he need go no further with the sacrifice of Ismael OR the ram, or anything else.
He had proved to God that he loved Him more than he loved his son. That was all that God required.

There may be a few Christians who believe that they are "saved" by the literal spilling of the blood of Jesus. It is absurd to think that "blood" per se can save anyone. The death and spilling of Jesus blood on the cross is symbolic of his death to his lower nature, CHRIST
did NOT die for he is an indestructible spirit of God (the word)

I wonder why the lO million or so Moslems that live in America, the few million in the Uk and the other millions in Europe and the West Generally have managed to get round this theological problem and DO NOT SACRIFICE ANIMALS.

In fact it has been said elsewhere that it was a pagan practise. Well it is a pagan practice just as much as the ritual sacrifice of children. In the 2lst century it is not necessary.

It has been said by another person that the animals are killed as quickly and humanely as possible. Now that a complete joke. It takes up to half an hour for an animal to die in agony. Anyone who practises this barbaric and disgusting behaviour have got warped minds. It is a pagan belief, and they have the cheek to turn round and say they have been ordered by God to do it. No God would expect an animal, part of His creation to have to suffer in this way. Those who practise this cruelty to animals have no part whatsoever in the Kingdom of Heaven and they are dilluded if they think they have, for they are as disgusting as what they do to a defenceless animal. They are themselves animals of the worst kind.

Now, put that in your pipes and smoke it.

Charlie.


Posts: 431 | From: luxor egypt | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
germansara
Member
Member # 5920

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for germansara     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
right, Charly !

I think the spiritual meaning is simply, that we show with this ritual that we are 'grateful' to not to slaughter our own sons?

Sara


Posts: 909 | From: Germany/Egypt | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
newcomer
Member
Member # 1056

Icon 1 posted      Profile for newcomer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Before any more contorted ideas about Islam and Muslims get spread around this forum, if anyone is interested in reading a research comparing the effect of Islamic and western methods of slaughtering on animals please check out this link: http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/an/an_slaughter.htm


Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sokarya@hotmail.com
Member
Member # 5853

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for sokarya@hotmail.com     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am glad slaughtering in the most barbaric way is seen as nothing more than a "ritual". It is of Pagan origen and there is no place for such practices in modern culture. It is illegal in the west and anyone caught causing this amount of suffering to an animal, faces a heavy fine or imprisonment or both. We are not comparing the issue to slaughterhouses around the world, this can be another topic.

It is a disgusting practice and so are the people who do it disgusting. God doesnt require blood.
In the West we show gratification to God by having a Harvest Festival. All kinds of things are donated and "put on the alter" They are then distributed to the poor and needs. There is no need to bleed animals to death as a ritual.

Priests used to drink menstral blood to get melatonin, now they take a tablet if they need it.
This issue I will never agree on. As far as I am concerned it will not be justified for violence to an animal is no less than violence to a human being. ALL VIOLENCE IS A VIOLENCE TOWARDS GOD.

All the best. Charlie.


Posts: 431 | From: luxor egypt | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
EL Baron
Member
Member # 803

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for EL Baron   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
SOKARY MOUT BEGEGHZAK WE WILL SACRFICIE ANIMALS AND ISLAM IS THE TRUTH
DIE WITH ENVY MAN
YOUR DISTORTED
YOUR MSGS HAVE ALOT OF BULL AND YOU CANT EVEN COPY AHMED FARRAG's name properly .... get a LIFE MAN

Posts: 47 | From: Alexandria | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AnotherNewMember
Member
Member # 5014

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for AnotherNewMember     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Interesting article Newcomer.

Charlie what exactly are you griping about, Ahmed Farrag just explained to you that animals are not slaughtered to be sacrificed to God, that moslems must sacrifice and submit themselves to God, not some animal. The word Islam itself means submission to God. The animals are slaughtered in the name of God, try not to distort the facts.

And please spare me the crap about it being illegal to cause cruelty to animals in the west. Tell that to the people in the west wearing fox and mink coats, alligator purses, snake skin shoes, and cow hide leather furniture! And give the facts on how much suffering was caused to these animals for these unessential luxuries, as opposed to food.And how many hunters exclaim the name of God before blasting their game with double barrell shot guns. And have the ritual of hanging the heads on their walls as trophies.


Posts: 323 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sokarya@hotmail.com
Member
Member # 5853

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for sokarya@hotmail.com     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am referring in my replies to the RITUALISTIC SLAUGHTERING OF ANIMALS TO "GOD" and I was not making comparisons with regard to cruelty of others or animal cruelty in general, otherwise I would need to write a book. The West in general consider the practise of animal sacrifice to be barbaric and unnecessary and it is against the law to do it certainly in the UK. It is also against the law in the UK to slaughter animals for their furs, skins or whatever and even you people are not so stupid as to not know that.

Your argument is like a bucket with a hole in it. You are like snakes and dont have a leg to stand on. God does not require blood sacrifice!! That is a pagan concept and a piece of dogma which does not have any place in the modern world. Charlie.


Posts: 431 | From: luxor egypt | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | EgyptSearch!

(c) 2015 EgyptSearch.com

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3