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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
How do people in Egypt think about Gamal Mubarak? I heard he is being prepared to take over. To be honest, I worked indirectly with the man for USAID & UNICEF, and he was brilliant.. So I guess the only reason why I would hate him to take over is his corrupt brother who stole the whole country. What do you think?

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It's not really the matter of his brilliance, Egypt is full of brilliant people that can rule this country perfectly.

Plus, our state controlled media can make anyone look brilliant and intelligent if they want to.

If Egyptian people voted for him it's ok then, though it would be a result of heavy brainwashing.

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Originally posted by odiab84:
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But I don't like the idea of him being a president just because he was Mubarak's son (Just like what happened in Syria) but if he applied for being a presidential candidate and people voted for him it's ok (It has been done in the states before)

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Gamal wouldn't be where he is now if it wasn't for his father's job. Do we expect someone like him to end corruption when through it he became what he is now?

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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
The thing is that he has a very positive attitude towards young people. He founded & chairs an NGO dedicated for youth. Besides, he seems to be the only non-idiot there is in the spotlight.

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You know this really urks me.

Now most of the Middle-East and North African countries, democracy or not have the son of the President take over. Even in Lebanon Hariri's son is being indoctrinated into the PM position. And I don't think he really wants the PM position. Besides he looks to damn hot to be taken seriously, I have a problem with that. I read his speeches and his news releases and just stare at his picture getting turned on. That really stunts my ability to take Lebanese politics seriously.

And Gamal is a very attractive guy, he's balding, but that just proves alot of his potential. I am really learning to mistrust men who manage to keep a full scalp, they lose other resources instead.

Gamal is an extremely eligible candidate, unfortunately he just happens to be Hosni's son. Like other Mid-East countries it just happens this way.

In the mean time, I really need to go straigt to 'print article' screen in order to block the image of these two eligible politicians or it drives me batty.

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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
Sonomod, your honesty is supreme.. I have to admit that Gamal's looks attribute(d) to his success amongst his (female) colleagues. Some anti-Mubarak sites suspect Gamal's sexual preferences though.. Which would bring us back to the favorite subject of this site: Homos,Gigolos and the like!

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Ha ha ha, now that would be a pretty effective way of discrediting a current president and his son.

Wasn't it a Malay or Indonesian President charged and convicted of sodomy? I mean come on, as soon as the charges were filed against the guy the so called victim's family moved up in the world real fast. The opposition didn't even bother to hide the fact that his family got a new house, sons immediately transfered to better colleges.

I mean how better to discredit someone? Besides any man who isn't a well I hate to say this male chauvanist pig is considered weak or gay in developing countries.

Its a shame, but the government administration is bloated with women and I can see how his charms would help.

it was the Deputy Prime Minister of Malaysia, Anwar Ibrahim, who was imprisoned on trumped up charges of sodomy, the evidence was such a pack of lies even down to it being extracted under obvious torture...the state of the witnesses/victims in court, his driver and an Islamic scholar (!), proved that, and the fact that the building where the offence was said to have been committed wasn’t even built on the date of the said offence!! It was a clear warning to anybody who got into a position of power to be able to challenge the corrupt system and government, and didn’t follow the party line. Many people didn’t realize the extent of the corruption there, as it had only been used on lower level people, but when it was applied so obviously to someone in such a powerful position, it just showed the insidious extent of it.

by the way, I have heard people say that Gamal’s brother and wife became religious after following Amr Khaled’s talks and that was why he had been pushed into the background, is that pure rumour?

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Originally posted by newcomer:
Hi Sonomod!

it was the Deputy Prime Minister of Malaysia, Anwar Ibrahim, who was imprisoned on trumped up charges of sodomy, the evidence was such a pack of lies even down to it being extracted under obvious torture...the state of the witnesses/victims in court, his driver and an Islamic scholar (!), proved that, and the fact that the building where the offence was said to have been committed wasn’t even built on the date of the said offence!! It was a clear warning to anybody who got into a position of power to be able to challenge the corrupt system and government, and didn’t follow the party line. Many people didn’t realize the extent of the corruption there, as it had only been used on lower level people, but when it was applied so obviously to someone in such a powerful position, it just showed the insidious extent of it.

by the way, I have heard people say that Gamal’s brother and wife became religious after following Amr Khaled’s talks and that was why he had been pushed into the background, is that pure rumour?

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Thanks for clarifying the Anwar Ibrahim issue, amazing how I forget things like names. lol

And about the Amr Khalid thing, I got into a huge arguement over this beancounter a few days ago. I don't understand how people can put their faith into a TV sensation. For me I won't put my faith into someones mission until I see a theology degree and what I will call modesty and a commitment to ground level community improvements.

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Originally posted by newcomer:
I heard it was Gamal’s brother, not him, who had become more religious and that didn’t suit the family agenda for him.

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Originally posted by newcomer:

by the way, I have heard people say that Gamal’s brother and wife became religious after following Amr Khaled’s talks

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Originally posted by newcomer:
Although Amr Khaled hasn’t got a degree in theology yet, although he is doing a degree at the Orientalist SOAS in London I believe or is it Aberystwyth in Wales, he does at least qualify for one of the qualities you mentioned, he is committed to ground level community improvements, and has encouraged a lot of positive activities, particularly among students and young adults, and he is even trying to get housewives to be more active too! Although I am not personally keen on his personality and am wary of his religious knowledge, it can’t be denied that he is enthusiastic and is trying to encourage positive action through the religion.

I heard it was Gamal’s brother, not him, who had become more religious and that didn’t suit the family agenda for him.

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Originally posted by 7aya:

i have the same problem with amr khaled too. he has made several blatantly obvious mistakes that just showed his lack of knoweledge! and by the way that rumor about alaa mubarak and his wife, well its just a rumor!

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Amr Khaled has pointed out many times that he is not A scholar but rather Dayiah and Dayiah usually rely on others and is not expected to give Fatwa which he never gave. People should not put much on him as long as he never claimed to be more than what he is.

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Originally posted by Troubles101:
Amr Khaled has pointed out many times that he is not A scholar but rather Dayiah and Dayiah usually rely on others and is not expected to give Fatwa which he never gave. People should not put much on him as long as he never claimed to be more than what he is.

out of curisoity, what kind of mistakes you meant?

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well the one that comes to mind is that story about how prophet mohamed during the isra2 and ma3rag was "negotiating" with god about the number of prayers muslims have to perform during the day. you know that popular story about how the prayers were 5o and then went down to 5? well i was reading ahmed bahgat's "anbya2 allah" and he said that this story is based on a myth, which was probably spread by jews because this idea of negotiating with god is popular with jews. remember the various negotiations they made with moses? however, bahgat said that when prophet mohamed pbuh saw god he was probably too stunned and amazed to have the guts to go back and not just go back but to negotiate, and negotiate with who? with god! it just doesn't make sense. bahgat said that there is no evidence for this story.and i really respect bahgat's opinion much more than amr khaleds, and i've always found this 50 to 5 story really strange. so i believe that someone like amr khaled shouldn't go out on national tv and say mythical stories like that!

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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
Now what? Who's going to hell then?!!

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Originally posted by 7aya:

well the one that comes to mind is that story about how prophet mohamed during the isra2 and ma3rag was "negotiating" with god about the number of prayers muslims have to perform during the day. you know that popular story about how the prayers were 5o and then went down to 5? well i was reading ahmed bahgat's "anbya2 allah" and he said that this story is based on a myth, which was probably spread by jews because this idea of negotiating with god is popular with jews. remember the various negotiations they made with moses? however, bahgat said that when prophet mohamed pbuh saw god he was probably too stunned and amazed to have the guts to go back and not just go back but to negotiate, and negotiate with who? with god! it just doesn't make sense. bahgat said that there is no evidence for this story.and i really respect bahgat's opinion much more than amr khaleds, and i've always found this 50 to 5 story really strange. so i believe that someone like amr khaled shouldn't go out on national tv and say mythical stories like that!

[This message has been edited by 7aya (edited 10 August 2005).]

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This "negotiating" you are refering to is called covenant making. Very huge aspect of Judeo-Christian faith. \

and its not really negotiating, actually its when God requires a prophet to make an immense sacrifice or to become a martyr. God often has requires ballastic burdens and the prophet in his humaness wails for God's mercy and God repeals the harshest burdens to prove to the human race that God can be benevolent, but not a push over. Its called a test of faith.

Although I don’t know the other person you mentioned, the story about the prayers was actually related in Hadith by both Bukhari and Muslim.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 345: Narrated Abu Dhar:
"...The Prophet said, "Then Allah enjoined fifty prayers on my followers when I returned with this order of Allah, I passed by Moses who asked me, 'What has Allah enjoined on your followers?' I replied, 'He has enjoined fifty prayers on them.' Moses said, 'Go back to your Lord (and appeal for reduction) for your followers will not be able to bear it.' (So I went back to Allah and requested for reduction) and He reduced it to half. When I passed by Moses again and informed him about it, he said, 'Go back to your Lord as your followers will not be able to bear it.' So I returned to Allah and requested for further reduction and half of it was reduced. I again passed by Moses and he said to me: 'Return to your Lord, for your followers will not be able to bear it. So I returned to Allah and He said, 'These are five prayers and they are all (equal to) fifty (in reward) for My Word does not change.' I returned to Moses and he told me to go back once again. I replied, 'Now I feel shy of asking my Lord again.'..."

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Originally posted by newcomer:
Pardon? I asked the question as the information I had heard didn't seem to fit with your earlier comment about the brother, and so I was curious as to what the real story was.

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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
How do people in Egypt think about Gamal Mubarak? I heard he is being prepared to take over. To be honest, I worked indirectly with the man for USAID & UNICEF, and he was brilliant.. So I guess the only reason why I would hate him to take over is his corrupt brother who stole the whole country. What do you think?

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Originally posted by newcomer:
When I said "the brother" I meant the brother of Gamal, I was using it in its English usage form, rather than its Islamic. And I made my original comment in reference to the above comment of yours.

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Originally posted by newcomer:
Assalamu alaykum 7aya!

Although I don’t know the other person you mentioned, the story about the prayers was actually related in Hadith by both Bukhari and Muslim.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 345: Narrated Abu Dhar:
"...The Prophet said, "Then Allah enjoined fifty prayers on my followers when I returned with this order of Allah, I passed by Moses who asked me, 'What has Allah enjoined on your followers?' I replied, 'He has enjoined fifty prayers on them.' Moses said, 'Go back to your Lord (and appeal for reduction) for your followers will not be able to bear it.' (So I went back to Allah and requested for reduction) and He reduced it to half. When I passed by Moses again and informed him about it, he said, 'Go back to your Lord as your followers will not be able to bear it.' So I returned to Allah and requested for further reduction and half of it was reduced. I again passed by Moses and he said to me: 'Return to your Lord, for your followers will not be able to bear it. So I returned to Allah and He said, 'These are five prayers and they are all (equal to) fifty (in reward) for My Word does not change.' I returned to Moses and he told me to go back once again. I replied, 'Now I feel shy of asking my Lord again.'..."

Also Sahih Muslim Book 001, Number 0309 by Anas b. Malik
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html

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Him this is not in our Bible. What comes to mind about Moses is the original commandments which he broke after he came down from Sinai and saw the golden calf baal. Which in turn the Hebrews wanted a pagan allowance to continue idol worship, which is not allowed. Kinda makes you think about the kabal in Mecca?

Well Moses went back to Sinai with a condenced version of the commandments, which are stricter and have less room for loopholes.

the idol baal was melted into gold blocks for use in the arch of the conventant, which to this day houses the commandments, the original pieces and the revised version in whole form.

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Originally posted by sonomod:
Him this is not in our Bible.

... Kinda makes you think about the kabal in Mecca?

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Hi Sonomod!

This story isn’t in the Bible as it happened during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), when he did his night journey to Heaven, although the story of the golden calf that you mention is in the Qur’an (20: 83-99)

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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
How do people in Egypt think about Gamal Mubarak? I heard he is being prepared to take over. To be honest, I worked indirectly with the man for USAID & UNICEF, and he was brilliant.. So I guess the only reason why I would hate him to take over is his corrupt brother who stole the whole country. What do you think?

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To bring the thread back to its original topic, before it branched off into religious matters.

What would make it bad if Gamal took over , would be the MANNER in which he is selected.

Of course if he is good and suitable, then he can wait until we see real free elections and democracy established. I mean when some one else other than his father or any of the cronies, is elected, and his term is served.

Then and only then can Gamal, stand on his own merits.

Of course if pushed and helped now...however good he is, he will be in the debt and pockets of those who orchistrated his succession...so he will be a NO GOOD

That is all....