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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
I heard they transformed him into toothpaste before they let him go. I wonder what shape he's in now. Maybe 7aya can investigate the matter for us?

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Oops, was going to ask who is he, but remembered he was the Chemist accused of helping the London bombers....

I do hope he was not treated badly, he is an innocent man...

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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
Medosa, so my previous message was a reply to your edited question about who he is. I feel so sorry for him since I know about the methods of torture those holes use.

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It really hurts me to know that torture is still so widely used in Egypt.

I had hoped that civilization has reached our shores.

I was still in Egypt during the days of Salah Nasr and his hell mates !!

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Originally posted by Medosa:

It really hurts me to know that torture is still so widely used in Egypt.

I had hoped that civilization has reached our shores.

I was still in Egypt during the days of Salah Nasr and his hell mates !!

(Now I have given away my age )

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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
I'm sure Nasr & his mates are now back to where they came from, and are having hell of a time. Amen.

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Just heard the news of El-Nashar's release on the BBC.

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Originally posted by 7aya:
i actually heard that egypt is one of only two countries in the world that imports torture equipment! unbelievable. and i don't really have much information about it, because its in the news page and i write features. but ill ask and let you know!

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And it is said we are moving towards democracy!! and freedom !!.

Nothing seems to change at all

From the political police in the 1930's, to Mokhabarat all through Nasser's regime (Salah Nasr &co.), and Sadat's .....till the present day.

It really makes me feel embarrassed when I see in Egyptian movies and Television productions, that police ill treatment of citizens both verbally and physically is taken as "normal".

You cannot see a portrayal of a police officer , who does not shout and threaten and litrally slaps people around.

The sad fact is that it is a reflection of reality.

It is even joked about in some movies (although I am not against this because it helps to highlight the problem).

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Originally posted by Medosa:

And it is said we are moving towards democracy!! and freedom !!.

Nothing seems to change at all

From the political police in the 1930's, to Mokhabarat all through Nasser's regime (Salah Nasr &co.), and Sadat's .....till the present day.

It really makes me feel embarrassed when I see in Egyptian movies and Television productions, that police ill treatment of citizens both verbally and physically is taken as "normal".

You cannot see a portrayal of a police officer , who does not shout and threaten and litrally slaps people around.

The sad fact is that it is a reflection of reality.

It is even joked about in some movies (although I am not against this because it helps to highlight the problem).

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Originally posted by 7aya:

the problem is that all the corruption is seen as normal, not just torture. ive been trying to renew my passport for a couple of days now, and whenever i go i just watch how the officers and buraucracy officials treat the people and its just horrible. they are rude,agressive, they use foul language. basically the treat people like they are cattles! and some of these people are really old! and i was watching waiting for anyone to object, to say no you have no right to talk to me this way. but nope nothing. so i decided to do something myself. i told the officer that he's rude, and i'm a human being and he should treat me as one. so he just stared at me, then threw me out of his office, and i didn't get my passport! when i came home and complained to my family, they told me its my fault and i shouldn't have answered because thats how things are in our country. if you want your papers done you shut up and take the abuse. and when i tried to argue that this passivity is why these people treat us badly, they looked at me like i'm crazy and told me well you won't fix egypt! mesh hatsala7y el balad!

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What you say is true, and people never protest because the are scared of spending the night (fel 7agz) or being beaten to death. Unfortunately, It's becoming part of our culture.

quote:

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Originally posted by Medosa:

And it is said we are moving towards democracy!! and freedom !!.

Nothing seems to change at all

From the political police in the 1930's, to Mokhabarat all through Nasser's regime (Salah Nasr &co.), and Sadat's .....till the present day.

It really makes me feel embarrassed when I see in Egyptian movies and Television productions, that police ill treatment of citizens both verbally and physically is taken as "normal".

You cannot see a portrayal of a police officer , who does not shout and threaten and litrally slaps people around.

The sad fact is that it is a reflection of reality.

It is even joked about in some movies (although I am not against this because it helps to highlight the problem).

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Talking of movies.

If you watch carefully and forget the story line, just watch the everyday behavour of the actors....what you see is normal Egyptian behaviour and it is very interesting.

For example watch a scene where some one lights a cigarette,and how the actor(actress), throws the spent match stick on the ground, which could be anything from the road , to the most expensive Persian carpet in a palace !!

Or watch them eating melon seeds (Leb), or slated Lupine seeds (Termis), and spit the skins everywhere.

I recently watched the film, The soft hands (Al Aidi Al Naema), with Salah Zo Elfequar, Ahmed Mazhar, Sabah...etc., there were many scenes like that, but a particularly one awful scene when Mariam Fakhr El-din and Salah zo Elfequar were eating ice cream in a park, (where she as an artist was painting the scenery)....well you guessed it, the ice cream cups were just tossed onto the ground...!!!!!!

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Originally posted by odiab84:
What you say is true, and people never protest because the are scared of spending the night (fel 7agz) or being beaten to death. Unfortunately, It's becoming part of our culture.

Check this http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/07/30/egypt.protest.ap/index.html

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quote:

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Originally posted by 7aya:

the problem is that all the corruption is seen as normal, not just torture. ive been trying to renew my passport for a couple of days now, and whenever i go i just watch how the officers and buraucracy officials treat the people and its just horrible. they are rude,agressive, they use foul language. basically the treat people like they are cattles! and some of these people are really old! and i was watching waiting for anyone to object, to say no you have no right to talk to me this way. but nope nothing. so i decided to do something myself. i told the officer that he's rude, and i'm a human being and he should treat me as one. so he just stared at me, then threw me out of his office, and i didn't get my passport! when i came home and complained to my family, they told me its my fault and i shouldn't have answered because thats how things are in our country. if you want your papers done you shut up and take the abuse. and when i tried to argue that this passivity is why these people treat us badly, they looked at me like i'm crazy and told me well you won't fix egypt! mesh hatsala7y el balad!

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Oh my goodness, this brings back really bad memories.

But all I can say is good for you, and please do not listen, stand your grounds, make a written complaint about this behavour and send it to his superiors and a copy to one of the respected newspapers.

We must also always point out to them (officials...officers...or whatever), that they are doing a job and they are paid for it, they are not doing anyone a favour..
And they must respect the source of their living.

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Originally posted by 7aya:
thanks odiab for the link, but do you know how small the number of these protestors are in comparison to the population of egypt? the people who actually believe that things can change are unfortunatly very few.

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I am not trying here to tell you that there a lot of protesters, I know that they are very few.
but the purpose of the link is to show you what you get when you say NO or ENOUGH in Egypt. They will beat you hard, pull off girl's headscarfs, take off your clothes and much more. How sad !!!

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Originally posted by odiab84:
What you say is true, and people never protest because the are scared of spending the night (fel 7agz) or being beaten to death. Unfortunately, It's becoming part of our culture.

Check this http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/07/30/egypt.protest.ap/index.html

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The link is interesting, but is it really just Moubarak and his government?

This behavour is now so ingrained in the Egyptian personlity, it really must take some effort from every one to change it and strongly reject it.

Of course it does not help matters that anyone in uniform seems to have massive authority, but very little resposibility.

Why do we have police officers at passport control in Egyptian airports?

Other countries have civilians, immigration officers.

Why do we have as heads of Government departments ex-army/police/...etc ..

AS Ahmed Fouad Nigm says everything is kaki... this must be rejected too, and very strongly.

quote:

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Originally posted by odiab84:
I am not trying here to tell you that there a lot of protesters, I know that they are very few.
but the purpose of the link is to show you what you get when you say NO or ENOUGH in Egypt. They will beat you hard, pull off girl's headscarfs, take off your clothes and much more. How sad !!!

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