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Author Topic: How to deal with sexual harassment
VanillaBullshit
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How to deal with sexual harrassment
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Hi Vanilla [Wink]
any news yet?

This video is brilliant.

Proves to the Egyptian men here who have never been outside Egypt that women are able to walk down the streets of Manhattan half naked and even attracting attention by calling to the passers by and the most she gets is a horn blowing!

I think that was your point?

Sort of puts into perspective the old hijab and niqab thing doesn't it.

[Big Grin]

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VanillaBullshit
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Hi, yes indeedy! I emailed JB last nite [Smile]


hehe this clip cracked me up, the lengths she had to go to get a horn honked at her "that was difficult to watch" LOL [Big Grin]

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seabreeze
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LOL Imagine if we did that experiment in Cairo! [Big Grin]

[Razz]

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quote:
Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
LOL Imagine if we did that experiment in Cairo! [Big Grin]

[Razz]

[Big Grin]


Hijab and Niqab does NOT stop sexual harassment, or unwanted attention.

It intensifies it!

Women need to be part of the solution NOT the problem here.

I can't even begin to imagine 1 second in Cairo never mind one block [Roll Eyes]

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Dalia*
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quote:
Originally posted by harankash:
Hijab and Niqab does NOT stop sexual harassment, or unwanted attention.

It intensifies it!

Sadly true.
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Alchemist
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I think if you did that experiment in Cairo that the men would be in so much shock they could only stare, afraid to even blink for fear that it might turn out to be a dream. [Big Grin] [Razz]


Disclaimer: Alchemist does not advocate walking down the street in Cairo in your panties.

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VanillaBullshit
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quote:
Originally posted by Expecto Patronum (Alchemist):
I think if you did that experiment in Cairo that the men would be in so much shock they could only stare, afraid to even blink for fear that it might turn out to be a dream. [Big Grin] [Razz]


Disclaimer: Alchemist does not advocate walking down the street in Cairo in your panties.

[Big Grin]
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egyptian7
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in that video there is nothing abt sexual harrasement from an egyptian point of view lol

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islam

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Exiled
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quote:
Originally posted by harankash:
quote:
Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
LOL Imagine if we did that experiment in Cairo! [Big Grin]

[Razz]

[Big Grin]


Hijab and Niqab does NOT stop sexual harassment, or unwanted attention.

It intensifies it!

[Roll Eyes]

Do you wear hijab/niqab? If not then your claim is meritless and if you do please expound on how it actually 'intensifies' harassment? We are talking about Egypt, right?
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VanillaBullshit
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It doesn't deter people here Dunes, all women are viciously harassed to some extent, no matter who they're with, I see it all the time.

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of_gold
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ROFL...That was hilarious, especially the part where she thanked the guy.

--------------------
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton)
Leap and the Net will Appear.

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quote:
Originally posted by VanillaBullshit:
It doesn't deter people here Dunes, all women are viciously harassed to some extent, no matter who they're with, I see it all the time.

Exiled you are not a woman, nor are you a woman walking in Cairo, therefore you have no idea what it is like.

Women in the middle east in Hijab and Niqab get just as much torment, harassment, unnuendo.

What I meant by intensifies it is this.

Women can walk down Manhattan with barely a second look half naked.
Men will not bat an eyelid at them.

Now take Egypt for example.

Men and women here are obsessed by sex.

I am a member of a group who has one niqab'd woman who is afraid to come with us for coffee in Cilatro because in her words! ' I won't be able to stop myself from looking at the men, even the waiters, I am not supposed to to that, but I wont be able to help myself therefore that is bad for me'

I said that I can drink in Cilantro and not even notice one man there. She said well that is you.

I said ' are you serious?' because this is hard to believe......

she said' yes because I will be tempted and not be able to stop myself'.
Now this is a woman, moslem, married to a bearded what I would term very strict husband, never leaves the house unless except to do shopping with him and is incredibly lonely, sad, depressed, and we wanted to give her an opportunity to et some air with the girls.

So you see.

We are a group of uncovered women going to Cilatro for coffee and have not the slightest notion of looking at, checking out and to be truthful want to avoid any male contact! [Big Grin]

Here is a young moslem woman in full niqab and gloves who cannot stop looking at men when she is out and has to distract herself, by whatever means.

So it seems to me that being covered, being obsessed by men, by sex, by the human body, she fears her own self.

Men are like naughty children.

They always want to discover what is hidden away, what is forbidden, they will always touch what is in the box with the 'do not touch sign on it' or if they cannot they will go crazy just like they do here.

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maybe you would prefer to read words from a moslem Egyptian woman on the subject?

7ayat
I notice you like to quote her on many things.

'This conversation has taken a weird turn. Sexual harrasment is an awufl and horrible reality in Egypt. Blaming it on clothes is just ignorant because in the 60s and 70s women in Egypt wore shorts and miniskirts and there was no harrasment. Whereas now the majority are veild and the harrasment has reached unbelievable levels. What I'm trying to say is that harrasment is not a direct result of clothes, the issue is much more complicated than that!'


NOTE

shorts, mini skirts no problems. Veiled intense harassment.

Therein lies the clue.


taken from the thread

Niqab'd women by Tarek a few posts down this week.

[Smile]

sh

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VanillaBullshit
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^^^Honestly now, what more can I say? Except thank you for your honesty & perceptivenss.


quote:
she said' yes because I will be tempted and not be able to stop myself'.
Here is a woman that most likely has been forced into a loveless, sexless marriage because of the patriarchal BULLSHIT that rules here and dictates that they can indulge in any petty desire & be a slave to their passions, always at the cost of another human beings repression.

Sweet Jesus, she's worried about being in a place where she can check guys out, because she's being perpetually carpet-bombed with guilt by her "man" while he keeps her in line by projecting his inadequacy onto her.


There's scores of similar examples which is a testimony to the soaring divorce rate.


Segregation is a very bad idea to begin with, it produces too many aberrant behaviors when you not only go against human nature, but have the gall to assume you can defy it.

It's natural to want to associate with one's peers, to enjoy the emotional growth that comes from being around other human beings, but that's not what goes on in this reigon.

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no problem Vanilla, just had to tell it like it is and in the beginning we felt sorry for this girl.
We went to her house, she could not come to ours. We didn't have to but we did. It was a joint decision and we all agreed to make her feel like she existed. She is not from this country, her husband is. Soon they will move to either Nigerian or Saudi with his work. She was lonely, desperate for hman contact because she said that the only real contat she had was WITH him and with his family, therefore it was hard to discuss marital problems. Wont go into it all here.

She has no music, watches Huda TV and thats about it.
Only married a year and looked like a lonely, sad little girl who needed some comfort but after spending a few hours with her the consensus was we cannot do this anymore.

It was too in your face radical.
Too brainwashed and actually we did comment that this was the type of person who would be ideal suicide bomber. I know that sounds bad but she really had o life and what was there to lose really.
The starnge thing was she seemed happy in her sadness?????
Like a nun carrying a cross on her back with nails sticking into her flesh. Almost painfully sweet.

A very disturbing situation indeed.

We backed off then recently asked her to join us in an arabic class.

ONLY if it was a male teacher and once the husband had checked him and the class out.

Result..........
Nope, she is not allowed. Class was TOO SMALL, I mean in area not students. She would be too close to a man, the husband said. ONLY female as she is not allowed any male contact unless absolutely necessary.......

She cannot come to visit me unless my husband leaves the home!!! not even in a different room, and even then he was not happy.

So there you have it.

Mrs Niqaby woman of 6th October city on her way to Saudi to sit in another apartment!

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Dalia*
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quote:
Originally posted by Exiled:
quote:
Originally posted by harankash:
quote:
Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
LOL Imagine if we did that experiment in Cairo! [Big Grin]

[Razz]

[Big Grin]


Hijab and Niqab does NOT stop sexual harassment, or unwanted attention.

It intensifies it!

[Roll Eyes]

Do you wear hijab/niqab? If not then your claim is meritless and if you do please expound on how it actually 'intensifies' harassment? We are talking about Egypt, right?
I don't think hijab or niqab intensifies harassment on a personal basis. But I think, and that has also been observed by many other women who have been to several Muslim countries, that the covering of women often goes along with a particular social perception ... namely, that men are not able to restrain themselves and that it is women's responsibility to keep up morals by making themselves as invisible and unattractive as possible.

What happens then is for example what we can observe in Egypt: Men feel they have the right to harass women, much more so the less those women are covered. As a result, many women cover up more in order to avoid harassment, but it's like a vicious circle, it only gets worse.

And then you have very popular religious preachers like Amr Khaled telling women they collect sins every time they go uncovered and a man looks at them. Now isn't that absolving the men of all responsibility and assigning it to the women? Don't you think those are exactly the wrong words in a country where almost every single woman experiences harassment, and where things like the eid attacks happen? What kind of message is this giving out? Women are made to feel guilty if they get harassed, they are told it is their fault if a man misbehaves. But does that change anything? Is there no harassment in countries where the majority of women wear hijab or niqab? It seems that often it's the opposite, there's a lot of harassment in Egypt, I've often heard that harassment in Saudi is quite awful as well. So doesn't that tell us the opposite of what many want to make us believe ... that covering women up and making them as invisible as possible in the public sphere can never be a solution to complex social problems or unhealthy male -- female relationships.

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Questionmarks
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I've heard several similar, a woman who was afraid of losing control, and voluntairily became strict religious, covered from head to toe, in a loveless marriage,others hysterical about sex, etc. To afraid to get on emotional terms with a man anyway or to afraid to lose control because men were tempting... Something must have happened to them, otherwise they wouldn't have such a twisted mind in sexuality...

--------------------
“Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.”

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VanillaBullshit
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"Something must have happened to them"

What happened to them is systematic emotional terrorism, segregation and guilt-tripping by their families, that's why they're wound up so tight.

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Well, I know that I have been shocked in all of these cases; Egyptian women, adult,intellegent and educated, and completely messed up by men. The saddest is that the men were talking rather contemptuous about it, they prefered to sweep it under the carpet as not important.Also there was no support from families at all, the women were the ones who were blamed as if it was their fault. The dishonesty in this, the mental pressure that was excersised on them, the psychological inability to accept this, and the non-stop mental pressure to accept, it looks sick to me.
I know there must have been a lot of cases of abusement in this, even that far that the women needed to get treatment in mental-clinics, and it all was taken off with a : Well, she is allright now; she is engaged, there is nothing to complain about, she doesn't have an eye for the needs of her husband, even 'she is selfish'...etc.
While at the same time these women all were in serious need for care. The families didn't see it as a reason to go on with where they were busy with: get her in a arranged marriage, trying to take away her resistance, or forcing her to accept what she couldn't, sometimes even using violence!
I have to admit that I've seen enough to become very suspicious to men in a certain class of society.They all look very gentle and friendly, but behind the curtains a lot of them are sick freaks...

--------------------
“Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.”

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The sexual harassment of women in Egypt will not stop regardless of how much females get covered up to be able to walk safely outside on the streets.

It's all up in the head of the men ..... that's where things have to start to improve.

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mortimer
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I find a slap around the chops usually works [Big Grin]
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jean_bean
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just in case it matters - I can back up what Harankush is saying 110%. We have tried and tried to help this woman to see the light, but to no avail.

anyways...got various thoughts I would like to put forth.
When the 2 sexes are separated in an extreme way, they will have a natural curiousity about the other one, and will have no real experience in dealing with them, and will have a lot of wrong thoughts - mostly cuz they have not had the opportunity to know anyone from the opposite sex as a real person - just as either the object of desire viewpoint, or a mysterious thing that not understood.
Its just like a prejudice that a person might have toward a whole race of people.
Like some people in the world might have a prejudice against say...Arabs or Black people or Gays, as an example.
When you are growing up with one as a friend, or if make friends with someone, you see right thru any prejudices, and get to know them as real people, that have the same thoughts, desires, hopes, bleed red blood, etc.
When you are cut off from this - thats when prejudices form.
Does this make any sense??
I, personally, don't agree or give any credence to the separation of sexes stuff.
It creates too much division, and false information. We need to come together with understanding, rather than divide up even more than we already are.
And I am not naive enough to think that everyone feels that same as I do, but it works for me, and wished it would work for everyone.

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cheers Jean for that.

You know I have no problem at all with Hijab or wearing a spangly top hat on your head. I think anyone should be free to wear what they choose to within reason.
My anger comes from people here who say time after time that Hijab protect women from harassment when clearly the opposite is true. I have no idea why they say that????

It is mental!

If all the women in Egypt removed their hijabs and niqabs and 'smacked around the chops' every man who started any nonsense, it would be over in a week! ( thank you Mortimer for your turn of phrase) [Big Grin]

BUT they all act like innocent victims when they should be standing up to them and for their right of equality and to be able to walk the streets in peace.
Then once the men are sorted out wear what the hell you like!
BUT!!! not as some crappy excuse.

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Exiled
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quote:
Originally posted by VanillaBullshit:
It doesn't deter people here Dunes, all women are viciously harassed to some extent, no matter who they're with, I see it all the time.

Sexual harassment is problematic and widespread in Egypt, my contention however is with the ridiculous claim that hijab/niqab intensifies sexual harassment.
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VanillaBullshit
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quote:
Originally posted by jean_bean:
just in case it matters - I can back up what Harankush is saying 110%. We have tried and tried to help this woman to see the light, but to no avail.

anyways...got various thoughts I would like to put forth.
When the 2 sexes are separated in an extreme way, they will have a natural curiousity about the other one, and will have no real experience in dealing with them, and will have a lot of wrong thoughts - mostly cuz they have not had the opportunity to know anyone from the opposite sex as a real person - just as either the object of desire viewpoint, or a mysterious thing that not understood.
Its just like a prejudice that a person might have toward a whole race of people.
Like some people in the world might have a prejudice against say...Arabs or Black people or Gays, as an example.
When you are growing up with one as a friend, or if make friends with someone, you see right thru any prejudices, and get to know them as real people, that have the same thoughts, desires, hopes, bleed red blood, etc.
When you are cut off from this - thats when prejudices form.
Does this make any sense??
I, personally, don't agree or give any credence to the separation of sexes stuff.
It creates too much division, and false information. We need to come together with understanding, rather than divide up even more than we already are.
And I am not naive enough to think that everyone feels that same as I do, but it works for me, and wished it would work for everyone.

*applause*

[Smile]

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Exiled
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quote:
Originally posted by harankash:
quote:
Originally posted by VanillaBullshit:
It doesn't deter people here Dunes, all women are viciously harassed to some extent, no matter who they're with, I see it all the time.

Exiled you are not a woman, nor are you a woman walking in Cairo, therefore you have no idea what it is like.

Women in the middle east in Hijab and Niqab get just as much torment, harassment, unnuendo.

What I meant by intensifies it is this.

Women can walk down Manhattan with barely a second look half naked.
Men will not bat an eyelid at them.

Now take Egypt for example.

Men and women here are obsessed by sex.

I am a member of a group who has one niqab'd woman who is afraid to come with us for coffee in Cilatro because in her words! ' I won't be able to stop myself from looking at the men, even the waiters, I am not supposed to to that, but I wont be able to help myself therefore that is bad for me'

I said that I can drink in Cilantro and not even notice one man there. She said well that is you.

I said ' are you serious?' because this is hard to believe......

she said' yes because I will be tempted and not be able to stop myself'.
Now this is a woman, moslem, married to a bearded what I would term very strict husband, never leaves the house unless except to do shopping with him and is incredibly lonely, sad, depressed, and we wanted to give her an opportunity to et some air with the girls.

So you see.

We are a group of uncovered women going to Cilatro for coffee and have not the slightest notion of looking at, checking out and to be truthful want to avoid any male contact! [Big Grin]

Here is a young moslem woman in full niqab and gloves who cannot stop looking at men when she is out and has to distract herself, by whatever means.

So it seems to me that being covered, being obsessed by men, by sex, by the human body, she fears her own self.

Men are like naughty children.

They always want to discover what is hidden away, what is forbidden, they will always touch what is in the box with the 'do not touch sign on it' or if they cannot they will go crazy just like they do here.

I think we all have our foot in the mouth moments so don’t take it personal. A resting Egyptian donkey on one of the side streets of Bulaq probably knows more than some expats living in Egypt. Expats who are prone to expressing their silly notions, despite the fact that such notions contradict the reality of the situation. More logic and less nonsense would go a long way to clearing some of the misconceptions stated on ES.

I am certainly not a woman but I have assimilated enough within Cairo to know which woman are harassed the most. It is unfortunate but many of my male friends partake in this practice. And the less the clothing the more likely the woman is to be sexually harassed. I have observed this in malls and round the clock in one of the malls in which my showroom was located. Some women least likely to be harrassed and those are the one wearing jilbab with niqab. The mohjabat are less likely to be harassed than women without the hijab, unless their derriere and rack is exceptional. Women who wear extra tight clothing and flaunt their camel toe are also likely to be harassed than women with loose clothing with hijab/niqab. The women who wear niqab that are harassed most are the ones who wear khaleeji(gulf) abayat and especially those who have a strong perfume scent.

To claim that hijab/niqab intensifies sexual harassment is ridiculously and I wonder what possessed to lay such fallacious claim.

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Exiled
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quote:
Originally posted by harankash:
maybe you would prefer to read words from a moslem Egyptian woman on the subject?

7ayat
I notice you like to quote her on many things.



I in fact have a tendency to quote some of ES darlings and cuties, ask blue eyes she is full of me. And speaking of darlings I see Dalia has replied to me, let me see what she has to say.
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VanillaBullshit
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It's gotten much worse since you've lived here.

No woman is immune, even if she looks like Bride of Chucky.

--------------------
******

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Exiled
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalia*:
quote:
Originally posted by Exiled:
quote:
Originally posted by harankash:
quote:
Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
LOL Imagine if we did that experiment in Cairo! [Big Grin]

[Razz]

[Big Grin]


Hijab and Niqab does NOT stop sexual harassment, or unwanted attention.

It intensifies it!

[Roll Eyes]

Do you wear hijab/niqab? If not then your claim is meritless and if you do please expound on how it actually 'intensifies' harassment? We are talking about Egypt, right?
I don't think hijab or niqab intensifies harassment on a personal basis. But I think, and that has also been observed by many other women who have been to several Muslim countries, that the covering of women often goes along with a particular social perception ... namely, that men are not able to restrain themselves and that it is women's responsibility to keep up morals by making themselves as invisible and unattractive as possible.

What happens then is for example what we can observe in Egypt: Men feel they have the right to harass women, much more so the less those women are covered. As a result, many women cover up more in order to avoid harassment, but it's like a vicious circle, it only gets worse.

And then you have very popular religious preachers like Amr Khaled telling women they collect sins every time they go uncovered and a man looks at them. Now isn't that absolving the men of all responsibility and assigning it to the women? Don't you think those are exactly the wrong words in a country where almost every single woman experiences harassment, and where things like the eid attacks happen? What kind of message is this giving out? Women are made to feel guilty if they get harassed, they are told it is their fault if a man misbehaves. But does that change anything? Is there no harassment in countries where the majority of women wear hijab or niqab? It seems that often it's the opposite, there's a lot of harassment in Egypt, I've often heard that harassment in Saudi is quite awful as well. So doesn't that tell us the opposite of what many want to make us believe ... that covering women up and making them as invisible as possible in the public sphere can never be a solution to complex social problems or unhealthy male -- female relationships.

I think for every Amr Khalid we need a female counterpart. Women who are knowledgeable in Fiqh and provided ample airtime on satellite TV to address the grievances that women have.

The harassment is problematic but shall people sit silent when someone makes a fallacious claim, one that is counterproductive. I agree with you that men are behaving and acting in very disrespectful ways. Again I think the solution is by way of intelligent Arab female scholars that can address these matters. I emphasized Arab because we are talking about Egypt and the Middle East. And being part of the culture and understanding the culture goes a long way to gaining acceptance by the people.

Insha Allah this will one day be fruitful and Insha Allah there will be a solution because preachers like Khalid, Swaidan, Al-Jifri and other contemporary preachers are a sick joke on the ummah.

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so Exiled what you are saying is that ALL women are harassed, it is just to what extent.
Even the niqab'd one in Khaleegi.

My point is

You can wear a bikini in Manhattan and not get harassed.

So


Cairo is 90% covered = unbelievable female harassment the extent depending on perfume, camel toe, khaleegi,colour, sequins or whatever.

Manhattan 99.9% uncovered = no harassment.

So in your words what do you conclude from that?

Why are the women in Cairo harassed and not the Manhattan ones? What makes it happen here and not there? What exactly is the root of the problem and what is the answer do you think?

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Now I am wondering which AMERICAN women scholars were needed to stop the men in America from harassing women in the streets of the city.
If local women scholars are the solution.

Hmmmm?

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VanillaBullshit
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Dude, it's a very simple equation IMHO.

People need to ease up on stuffing religion down everybody's throats whether they like it or not, that won't, has not, nor will ever solve anything.

Segregation of the sexes must end, we've all seen the freaks of nature it has produced thus far.


So, what do you propose these intelligent female arab scholars say to their fellow women that may ease or possibly eliminate the disgustingly vulgar verbal and physical abuse they endure?

FYI: Amr Khalid is a whiny prick & a self-appointed expert.

He uses guilt tripping tactics to get more & more women to gift wrap their heads in a shiny gold sequinned "Islamic Hijab", nothing more. I'm not even a woman, and I'm fed up of everybody trying to control them by shoving a Lo-jack up their butts.

That's probably what's next, the new Islamic Lo-Jack! Keep tabs on her 24/7 with this nifty suppository (may cause anal leakage).

--------------------
******

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Let me tell you something and Vanilla can verify.

I never go out in the streets here uncovered.

Usually I wear baseball cap and sunglasses.
My hair is always tied back and tucked away in a clip.
I never have arms uncovered and always wear long trousers with every top reaching well below my 'camel toe'!
My clothes are not revealing in any way neither transparent. The only skin you can see is in summer from mid forearm to fingertips and face.

I walk with head down and never in any way try to attract any type of attention from either men or women.

So tell me what is so special, attractive, captivating, sexually alluring to just about every male here when I walk down the street?

Why do men masturbate at the side of the car as my husband goes to the shop and I am sitting in it ? ( Oh yes!!) in full daylight in public street!
Why do I get 'fucky fucky' as I pass, whistles, touching, groping?
Men with their children passing me and asking me would I like to go out with them as I am walking slower behind my husband looking at something in a shop window.
Why am I running after a man spraying him with Pepsi in the middle of the street when he has just pulled out his willie to me?

Why here?

What the hell is going on?

Tell me that.

Why has this NEVER!!!! happened to me in any other country?

As usual you think it is the womens place to educate! the TV should have women scholars!
Bullshit!

I am switching this off as I cannot listen any more of this crap!

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I have been raised up by segregration of sexes, but there was no harassment comparable to what we expierencing right now in Egypt.
I don't think it has to do with religion only.
I notice that most of the women who are harassed, are the unprotected ones, the ones with no father or brothers. At the same time women are not raised by standing up for theirselves, by selfesteem, by learning how to defend theirselves, by being assertive. Often they are a ignorant,weak-willed victim by men.
They have no possibility to speak about what happened, because male part of society waves it away, as I explained earlier.
At the same time men haven't been raised up by being aware of the wrong in this. By making them aware of what they are doing.
It happens a lot. It happens that much that Exiled, for example, is telling us his friends are doing the same. They all do it, while they know they shouldn't. And when it has negative consequences they close their eyes and look in another direction.
Most man shouldn't even think about rejecting the behaviour of his friend, causin, brother etc. because he will be the traitor.
I've asked men to think about what would happen when it should be their sister, or their mother... Ridiculous example, because most of the time it wouldn't happen to their sister, mother, they are protecting them, because they know how these men are like...
The badness is widespread, and a lot of men are seeing it as wrong but inevitable while they are doing the same...

--------------------
“Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.”

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Egyptian Man
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quote:
Originally posted by VanillaBullshit:
How to deal with sexual harrassment

Wow, no one paid attention to the bitch. Even the honking was fake added Lol
Talk about failure!

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Sashyra8
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<People need to ease up on stuffing religion down everybody's throats whether they like it or not, that won't, has not, nor will ever solve anything.

Segregation of the sexes must end, we've all seen the freaks of nature it has produced thus far.>

VB,round of applause for you. [Smile]

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anthropos
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I felt the message of the video was that secretly women crave attention from men in the street. That deep down they like it. Or maybe it is to show what men think women want. I don't know.

I remember when I first came to Cairo, I felt like some superstar for 2 days because of the attention I got, not that I am glamourous at all, after that it was just a big headache and really disrespectful.

I did meet my husband in the street though [Smile]

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humanist
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I read this and am afraid for my daughters who are young and beautiful and not yet at puberty but approaching. Surely they will want to visit Egypt one day again soon.

Let me tell you the rage and absolute violence that will come out of this here mamma if some filthy pig of an male attempts to do anything other than smile at my daughter. I will make a scene that will be televised and talked about for years to come. I will SHAME this man and those around him and all of those watching in the streeets! I will have pepper spray ready and I'm telling you, the man or men responsible will NEVER EVER think of doing it again.

that is how much t his topic angers me.

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Dalia*
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quote:
Originally posted by VanillaBullshit:
FYI: Amr Khalid is a whiny prick & a self-appointed expert.

He uses guilt tripping tactics to get more & more women to gift wrap their heads in a shiny gold sequinned "Islamic Hijab", nothing more.

That's how I feel and that's why I can't stand him.
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Egyptian Man
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalia*:
quote:
Originally posted by VanillaBullshit:
FYI: Amr Khalid is a whiny prick & a self-appointed expert.

He uses guilt tripping tactics to get more & more women to gift wrap their heads in a shiny gold sequinned "Islamic Hijab", nothing more.

That's how I feel and that's why I can't stand him.
He may be a whiny prick and I may not like him much. But I have to admit that nothing he says or does is of bad infeluence. He did pay of that with years away from Egypt.
So, good for him and those who listen to him. And those so infuriated by Hijab should just shove it really

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seabreeze
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If the women here would bow up and decide to kick some bee-hind at even the faintest remark or illicit behavior perhaps it would stop. I don't mean to put the responsibility on the women only but obviously nothing else is being done. Usually the women just keep walking with their heads down acting like they didn't notice anything. Why would the men stop?

I should begin a business here selling pepper spray and a paint dye you can spray in the face of an attacker. It is usually green. It dyes the face green for almost a week so it is obvious who the attacker is/was - talk about curing that pervert in a big big hurry!

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Dalia*
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quote:
Originally posted by ?????:
I notice that most of the women who are harassed, are the unprotected ones, the ones with no father or brothers.

Huh? How would a harasser know if a woman has a father or brother if he just sees her passing by in the street?
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I must come from a different country?
Are you ladies telling me that every time you walk out there you're barraged with harassment?

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seabreeze
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalia*:
quote:
Originally posted by ?????:
I notice that most of the women who are harassed, are the unprotected ones, the ones with no father or brothers.

Huh? How would a harasser know if a woman has a father or brother if he just sees her passing by in the street?
Lol Dalia she means if there is no father or brother WITH her. [Big Grin] I have noticed that, too, btw. If my husband is with me opposed to if I am alone.
BIG DIFFERENCE!

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Dalia*
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quote:
Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
If the women here would bow up and decide to kick some bee-hind at even the faintest remark or illicit behavior perhaps it would stop. I don't mean to put the responsibility on the women only but obviously nothing else is being done. Usually the women just keep walking with their heads down acting like they didn't notice anything.

Because it has been drummed into their heads that this is how a *classy* woman reacts. Showing a reaction means that the woman is somehow humiliating herself.
[Roll Eyes]
When I first came to Cairo and kept asking people about how to deal with the harassment, I always got a shrug of the shoulders and the answer to "just ignore it".

I somehow understand the idea behind it ... that you shouldn't give those morons any sort of attention. But it's obvious that this approach does not work in the least, so, yes, it's time women get more vocal about those things.

I've tried all sorts of things and I've even slapped guys a few times. But nothing seems to really have an impact. The only thing that kind of turns the situation around and makes the harasser angry is to use really bad language and insult them, but that is indeed very *un-classy* and can also get you into danger if you're unlucky.

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Dalia*
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quote:
Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
Lol Dalia she means if there is no father or brother WITH her. [Big Grin] I have noticed that, too, btw. If my husband is with me opposed to if I am alone.
BIG DIFFERENCE!

Oh ok ... lol.

Btw, it also makes a difference if the man with you is Egyptian or a foreigner. If he's a foreigner, you will still get harassed by some people.

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Egyptian Man
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalia*:
quote:
Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
If the women here would bow up and decide to kick some bee-hind at even the faintest remark or illicit behavior perhaps it would stop. I don't mean to put the responsibility on the women only but obviously nothing else is being done. Usually the women just keep walking with their heads down acting like they didn't notice anything.

Because it has been drummed into their heads that this is how a *classy* woman reacts. Showing a reaction means that the woman is somehow humiliating herself.
[Roll Eyes]
When I first came to Cairo and kept asking people about how to deal with the harassment, I always got a shrug of the shoulders and the answer to "just ignore it".

I somehow understand the idea behind it ... that you shouldn't give those morons any sort of attention. But it's obvious that this approach does not work in the least, so, yes, it's time women get more vocal about those things.

I've tried all sorts of things and I've even slapped guys a few times. But nothing seems to really have an impact. The only thing that kind of turns the situation around and makes the harasser angry is to use really bad language and insult them, but that is indeed very *un-classy* and can also get you into danger if you're unlucky.

If you're harassed all the time Ms, then it must be something you're doing wrong.
Sorry, yes Egyptian, yes mean it.

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Exiled
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quote:
Originally posted by VanillaBullshit:

So, what do you propose these intelligent female arab scholars say to their fellow women that may ease or possibly eliminate the disgustingly vulgar verbal and physical abuse they endure?


I believe the solution (for Muslims) to this predicament is within Islam and this means following the teachings of Prophet Muhammad (saw). Dalia pointed out that current preachers such as Khalid dismiss altogether the actions of the males hence blaming the females for the disrespectful actions practiced by men. Female scholars if supported by Islamic institutions such as Al-Azhar in addition to allocating them ample airtime can effectively hammer in this issue. Muslim women need a voice to balance the male dominated arena that is ineffectual when it comes to their grievances. They must educate their fathers, sons, husbands and society in general on the sick behavior that is transpiring in Egypt. And with this education and awareness in addition continued support from Islamic institutions these female scholar/academics/preachers can make a difference. This can literally pave a way for legislation to criminalize sexual harassment. This would be a good start. The matter needs to be addressed fully, condemned and as I mentioned above criminalized. Muslim sisters need to take it upon themselves because the status quo is ineffective and might remain so until a loud enough voice is heard. The only way to go about tackling such an issue in Egypt is Islamically because enacting a mere law would not suffice, these actions need to be shamed in the eyes of the public paving the way for acceptance of laws that criminalize this behavior. Simple put Muslim women must be empowered in the religious spectrum and their voice must be respect and until then we will not see change.

So what I’m proposing is essentially the empowerment of women in Egypt. Giving them their due worth in a biased society. Initially it could be female scholars and insha allah followed by female police officers . Sexual harassment stems from lack of respect and women need to be empowered in fields that command respect or in other words male dominated arenas.

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Dalia*
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quote:
Originally posted by egyguy:
nd those so infuriated by Hijab should just shove it really

I'm not *infuriated* about hijab at all, but about the stupid emotional blackmail he is pulling on women.

Men have been given the Friday prayer, and women have been given hijab instead. A woman going out without hijab will accumulate countless sins. If the woman was guided on the right path and protected her modesty, then society would also be on the right path. The hijab is the most important thing in a woman's life!

From where does he get this nonsense and how come people believe it?!?

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