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Author Topic: How to deal with sexual harassment
Vader-
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quote:
Originally posted by Tigerlily:
No it's not, Vader. In the country were I live, people have rights even if they did wrong. People are given a fair trial, no physical punishment from police officers and if convicted they get sentenced with serving time in a jail, community service etc.

IT'S NOT IN THE POWER OF THE POLICE TO PUNISH AN INDIVIDUAL. That's the problem with Egypt, constant violation of human rights!!

Yes it is.

You can't get a fair trial here. And anyway, I think a beating is a quicker remedy for this behavior than jail.

Actually in this case it should be in the power of anyone that has power to punish an individual, you violate a woman, you get beat the f*ck up.

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You can't be advocating women rights in one case and violate human rights in another one.

I agree you can't get a fair trial in Egypt, I also don't believe that is common to prosecute people for sexual harassment in this country despite that specific laws exist.

The key is educating people, if they don't receive the proper upbringing from their homes let the religious worship places (mosques and churches) do their fair part in it.

Sexual verbal harassment and groping of women can't be acceptable in Egypt's society. People - women and men alike - have to stand up against this kind of shameful behaviour. The truth is it's widely tolerated among the men - unfortunately.

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Vader-
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Define human rights.
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Exiled
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quote:
Originally posted by Sic Luceat Lux:
quote:
Originally posted by Exiled:
I emphasize Islam because that is the code of ethics that the overwhelming majority of Egyptians are supposed to adhere by. Members may like it or not but Egypt is 90% Muslims despite the behavior taking place on the streets

Dunes, if you think Islam is the solution, then you are out of touch with reality dude..

There is no proof or evidence that Islam (or any other religion for that matter) can make men or women (much less nations) more ethical.

In fact, isn't Egypt more "Islamic" today than it was a few decades ago, yet sexual harassment is far worse now than it was back then?

The truth is, religion and morality are mutually exclusive....not inclusive.

Every man has the power to change his behaviour, and until he makes a personal decision to become a better man, religion can't do a damn thing for him.

Anyway, thats besides the point and off topic.. We've had these discussions before on E.S, and it all comes back to the same things as VB and others have noted..

Sexual segregation and repression both lead to abnormal sexual and emotional development in regards to dealing with members of the opposite sex, which results in an exponential increase in the rate of sexual harassment/misconduct.

Men and women were not created to be apart from each other. We are social creatures, and we need to interact with other people for proper maturation.

When this interaction is limited or repressed, problems are sure to arise in more ways than one.

Also, the vilification of female sexuality plays a large part to be sure. Women in Islamic nations have the unfortunate luck of being seen as both the tempters of men, and bastions of virtue at the same time.

Which explains why women get most of the blame for the sexual misconduct of men...and also why "covering up" is not only recommended, but mandatory in certain nations or locales..

This whole thing really is quite complicated to be sure.

It's an interesting synthesis of religion, culture and lets not forget, economics.

I don't recall ever seeing or hearing about sexual harassment in the Gulf nations to the same extent as what I've heard about Egypt.

There is less general malcontent and poverty in the Gulf nations though, so I'm sure that has much to do with it.

~Alistair

To state that Islam is incapable of fostering ethical behavior in individuals is erroneous. Islam brought morals and piety to the pre-Islamic Arabs, a society that was generally vulgar, base and despicable to say the least. The reproach and decadence exhibited by Egyptian males contradicts the teachings of Islam. Keep in mind that Egypt is one nation and does not constitute the entire Ummah. Egypt is also not the only nation that is ‘more Islamic’ today, other nations are also ‘more Islamic’ today including the vast majority of Arab states. Yet this hideous behavior is practically more or less an Egyptian phenomenon. I once thought that poverty played a major role but I do not longer feel this way because there are other Muslim nations that suffer worse poverty yet their males don’t exhibit such vile behavior as Egyptian males.

I am not setting precedents here, what I am suggesting is for Egypt to take some of the measures that other Muslim nations took over the past decade or so. I will reiterate again and regardless if what I say falls on deaf ears. Egyptian muslim women must play an integral role in Islamic policy in Egypt. Al-Azhar must support female scholars and the government must give women positions that command respect. These actions must be addressed in a religious context and criminalized in a penal code. Suggesting western ideals such as desegregation of the sexes is a silly notion given the fact that Egypt is 90% Muslim and 50% illiterate. I can only wish that the posters on ES use logic rather than notions when trying to convey what they feel is the solution. Most muslim nations are in fact segregated yet this harassment phenomena does not exists in those nations. Neither segregation nor economic hardships are excuses in other Muslim nations and they shouldn’t be excuses for the way Egyptian males are behaving.

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How is the situation in regards to sexual harassment of women in places like Saudi Arabia and Iran? Is it that extreme like it is in Egypt??
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Vader, Egypt is quite often in the news because of violations of human rights. Everyone remembers couple of highligthed cases were people got physically abused by police officers (f.e. the one case were a minibus driver received a broom stick up his anus and the whole torture was filmed by a cellphone). Physical torture is widespread in police stations throughout Egypt up to this day and will continue.

Other violations of human rights you find in the linked article like freedom of speech, freedom of religion etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Egypt

People getting arrested for no reason, thrown into jails and forced to make confessions under horrible torture.

Also African migrants are getting killed and the ones who are getting napped by Egyptian border troops are subject to abuse.

Why do you think Egypt was so p*ssed when the US announced it's not gonna forward the whole amount of financial aid last year if torture continues?

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Vader-
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I said I agreed to the harasser getting beaten up not getting raped.
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Egypt.Constitution

Chapter Three: Public Freedoms, Rights and Duties

Art.42: Any citizen arrested, detained or whose freedom is restricted shall be treated in a manner concomitant with the preservation of his dignity. No physical or moral harm is to be inflicted upon him. He may not be detained or imprisoned except in places defined by laws organizing prisons. If a confession is proved to have been made by a person under any of the aforementioned forms of duress or coercion, it shall be considered invalid and futile.


http://www.egypt.gov.eg/english/laws/Constitution/chp_three/part_one.asp

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mysticheart
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Well in any case, just being pulled from the shop he worked at that i was standing outside of when he approached me and insisted i should be with him and come home with him after i said i was married and taken to jail should be enough of a scare to him to make him think twice about making comments to any woman. I wasnt going to do anything but i told my husband what happened since i was waiting for him there, he went to the police across the street, the police went in and got the guy, asked me if that was the one, and threw him in back of truck. Went over what happened with me and took us all to the station. There, the "Chief", told me one of his relatives lives in the states and works on police force there, then said let us beat this man for behaving like such a dog and bringing the name of egyptian men down to such a level. I told them no, his offence had not been such that deserved a beating. The scare of being thrown in jail and humiliation of being dragged out of the shop in front of everyone was enough. If more guys that did things had this done, I imagine it would occur far less.

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Superwoman
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I have a question for people on this post, since Egypt is being discussed as an unsafe place for women to walk the streets, for fear of being harrassed the minute they leave their house or get off the plane, and people have said this is due to dysfunctional sexual attitudes because of segregation. Are you saying that there are more sexually motivated crimes in Egypt than in the UK or US? More abductions, rapes, abuse, exposure etc etc.
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VanillaBullshit
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You can't compare the media in the US or UK to here, where most sexually motivated crimes are not covered, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen tho.

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ExptinCAI
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quote:
Originally posted by Mrs:
I have a question for people on this post, since Egypt is being discussed as an unsafe place for women to walk the streets, for fear of being harrassed the minute they leave their house or get off the plane, and people have said this is due to dysfunctional sexual attitudes because of segregation. Are you saying that there are more sexually motivated crimes in Egypt than in the UK or US? More abductions, rapes, abuse, exposure etc etc.

I don't read that most women FEAR, but rather are FRUSTRATED and angry at the behavior. The verbal harassment does not translate to violent crime in 99.9% of the time in Egypt and people simply don't associate it as something that would escalate to a physical danger for a woman.

Not til those eid mob attacks, that is.

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Dalia*
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quote:
Originally posted by Mrs:
I have a question for people on this post, since Egypt is being discussed as an unsafe place for women to walk the streets, for fear of being harrassed the minute they leave their house or get off the plane

I haven't seen any posts here saying that women here feel in actual, physical danger, from where exactly did you get this?

Personally I have no clue as to the number of sexually motivated crimes here, and I doubt it would be possible to get reliable statistics. To me, the harassment is ubiquitous, annoying etc., but hardly ever makes me feel in danger.

That said, there was an incident here in Maadi a couple of months ago in which several young guys tried to drag a woman into their car in the middle of the street. Luckily, she was able to escape and to remember the number of the licence plate, but it's still very disturbing to think of it ...

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Vader-
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quote:
Originally posted by Tigerlily:
Egypt.Constitution

Chapter Three: Public Freedoms, Rights and Duties

Art.42: Any citizen arrested, detained or whose freedom is restricted shall be treated in a manner concomitant with the preservation of his dignity. No physical or moral harm is to be inflicted upon him. He may not be detained or imprisoned except in places defined by laws organizing prisons. If a confession is proved to have been made by a person under any of the aforementioned forms of duress or coercion, it shall be considered invalid and futile.


http://www.egypt.gov.eg/english/laws/Constitution/chp_three/part_one.asp

What the hell ? Prison isn't moral harm ?
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Well people who are a danger to others and the society need to be put somewhere! Read Art.41.

The conditions of Egyptian jails in general is another issue!

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Ironborn
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quote:
Originally posted by Exiled:
To state that Islam is incapable of fostering ethical behavior in individuals is erroneous.

I never said that Islam was incapable of fostering ethnical behaviour. I said it was incapable of making people behave more ethnical.

You may think I'm quibbling, but there is a distinction.

Islam does prescribe many positive habits and behaviours to it's adherents, but whether these same adherents follow it is another matter entirely.

Thats what I was getting at. Religion can only prescribe; it cannot force or make people behave any differently than how they are already inclined however.

Case in point, there has been countless immoral acts committed under the banner of Islam throughout the centuries..

And Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam, is considered by many to be amongst the most immoral and corrupt nations on the planet.

Where does it begin and where does it end?

quote:
Egypt is also not the only nation that is ‘more Islamic’ today, other nations are also ‘more Islamic’ today including the vast majority of Arab states.
Indeed, but my point in raising this, was that despite Egypt's greater religious status today, the sexual harassment problem has only become worse. It has not improved at all by most accounts.

quote:
Yet this hideous behavior is practically more or less an Egyptian phenomenon. I once thought that poverty played a major role but I do not longer feel this way because there are other Muslim nations that suffer worse poverty yet their males don’t exhibit such vile behavior as Egyptian males.
Hmmm I'm not so sure Egypt is the only Arab nation where this behaviour is commonplace. It is the worst in this regard perhaps, but not the only one I think.

I remember when I was in Kuwait many years ago, myself, another guy and three western women went downtown to do some shopping and sight seeing. One of the females was blonde haired and blue eyed, and the other two were brunettes. None of them were what I'd call hot or gorgeous, but they were fairly attractive.

With that said, the local men had more than a passing interest in them. They followed us throughout the bazaar, and even when we were in our vehicle, they would bang on the windows and proclaim their love for these foreign women..

Some guys even asked for their hand in marriage by saying,"I marry you!"

More telling than asking, but you get the point [Big Grin]

Then we went jet skiing in Kuwait harbor, and the other guy managed to capsize the jet ski he was on by doing fancy tricks with it.

Then for compensation, the guy who ran the jet ski operation wanted us to SELL one of the females to him [Eek!]

quote:
Suggesting western ideals such as desegregation of the sexes is a silly notion given the fact that Egypt is 90% Muslim and 50% illiterate.
If Egypt had less sexual harassment a few decades ago when it was more secular than religious, what does this say?

quote:
Most muslim nations are in fact segregated yet this harassment phenomena does not exists in those nations. Neither segregation nor economic hardships are excuses in other Muslim nations and they shouldn’t be excuses for the way Egyptian males are behaving.
It all depends on the level of segregation. Saudi Arabia being the most segregated, while Lebanon perhaps being the least.

Egypt seems to be somewhere in the middle.

Like I said earlier though, it's a complex problem with many underlying factors not easily addressed.

~Alistair

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Okay here we go.

Today Jean and I had to go to Akbar Elyoum University in 6th October City.
Anyone of you here study there?
Anyone of you there about 2pm?

If you were you would have seen the pantomime.

We both very respectfully dressed in fact over dressed in the heat!

We were accompanied by an assistant to a cafeteria.

From the very second we entered the door, it seemed like some sort of wild rodeo show had started from the roars of the students.
Both male and female! All females in Hijab all sitting cosy! with all the male students.

Both Jean and I walked with the man to the counter and we could not be heard for the screaming and shouting in arabic directed at us. Immediately as I went to the counter one student left his seat and being egged on by the males and females in the room came and stood leaning against my arm and saying hi and a load of the usual crap to the raucous applause of the onlookers.
Jean was trying to explain something and was having trouble being heard over the din.

Now I can best describe the scene as being in a nursery school for chimpanzees with megaphones on full volume.
As I stood there bewildered and looking at the tables of students all staring and laughing, making comments I was just totally disgusted. I slide my arm away from the one on my right and he turned to take a bow from his audience.

Having had enough I went over to the table with the most student. About 12 of them mixed and asked if they spoke English. They all said yes.
I then asked them collectively was this a university or a nursery school. I asked their ages to thunderous applause and to one specific girl in particular who was answering me checking with her male friends to see if she was funny enough.

I stood there amazed and asked had they no respect for visitors to their university. They replied through the screaming with laughter yes we are children. I said yes you are very young ones at that. Like little 4 year olds to which they laughed even louder. I asked what was so funny and they had no reply. I said that it was shameful that visitors come to their university and see behaviour that most would not even see in a primary school. They were each trying to say things to me in broken English each trying to outdo the other in comedy.

The next table up was a young man sitting with a young girl. He apologised for them. They were both embarassed ans said to just ignore them and told them to stop. They totally ignored him.
I walked away back to the counter where Jean was talking with the man and they still ( it is hard to describe in detail but were almost in a frenzy of throwing, things, pushing and jostling each other whilst laughing and back slapping).

I was so sad.

I tried to imagine my university and 2 foreign women walking in and having to endure this fiasco?

I just could not imagine it ever.

As we walked outside I asked the assistant accompanying us 'how could he suffer this every day from supposedly adults in education and he just shrugged his shoulders.

So out of a room of about maybe 40 students only one was embarassed enough to intervene.

I was sad that half were hijab'd girls.
( and if their parents knew what was going on would not be paying next years fees for sure!).

I was incredibly sad that this was your future. Your next parents, your next mothers and fathers, your lawyers and doctors.

God help Egypt! [Frown]

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VanillaBullshit
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That scene sounds sadly familiar.

Chimpanzees is the perfect word too, it seems it doesn't take much of anything at all to amuse these people.

IMO, this exaggerated laughter, finger-pointing & generally boisterous behavior is what egyptians do to detract attention from themselves.

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Vader-
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That's sad. [Frown]

What the hell is Akbar elyoum University ?

It sounds like a cheap private University where people that didn't get good enough grades (goof offs like me) but aren't actually interested in a good education (they still need a certificate) go to. They go have fun and play around all day, I have a few friends from several private Uni's and that's what happens there mostly.

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happybunny
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That is sad harankash [Frown]

I totally think though that you did the right thing and confront them [Wink] Maybe just maybe when these 'children' are on their own later on in the day they reflect on their behaviour and wonder how they would of felt if it had of been them [Frown]

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Dalia*
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quote:
Originally posted by VanillaBullshit:
That scene sounds sadly familiar.

It does. [Frown]
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jean_bean
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Hell, in my college days, I have been to wild beer guzzling FRAT parties that were not as loud.
It was absolutely amazing to me.
You would come running if you were outside, to see what the ruckus was all about.
I was saying to Harankash on the way back to the car, that maybe we should be re-thinking our plans to learn arabic - cuz if we REALLY knew what crap they were saying - that there might have been a fist fight.
Maybe right after our arabic class, we both should be taking a self defense class, when we go off on idiots like these ones, at least we can do some damage.. [Wink]

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Egyptian Man
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Ladies making claims of harassment,
Please post pics. I don't believe you're all that you claim to be. Pics for us to take your claims seriously and maybe just maybe help you out.

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seabreeze
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Sounds like they were threatened by you...not sure why. Sorry to say it is also a maturity issue, and pack mentality. They feed off of each other to be funnier and more insulting...riot mentality runs along the same idea.
I'm sure they loved the fact that you went over and fed into what they were dishing out, isn't there someone in charge of the university that you can complain to? [Confused]
Better yet - take photos next time with your mobile phone and put them on the net...sitting with their boyfriends. [Big Grin] [Razz]

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VanillaBullshit
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^^ You can't shame people that have no shame to begin with.

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quote:
Originally posted by egyguy:
Ladies making claims of harassment,
Please post pics. I don't believe you're all that you claim to be. Pics for us to take your claims seriously and maybe just maybe help you out.

You will need these too when staring at the pics!

http://www.womensnet.com/uploads/tx_templavoila/18.___.thumbnail.127.1.TuT_Badesalze_13.jpg

http://herbzipper.com/images/kleenex.gif

[Roll Eyes]

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Harankash, are you sure you wanna take up Arabic lessons at this place??
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Egyptian Man
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quote:
Originally posted by Tigerlily:
quote:
Originally posted by egyguy:
Ladies making claims of harassment,
Please post pics. I don't believe you're all that you claim to be. Pics for us to take your claims seriously and maybe just maybe help you out.

You will need these too when staring at the pics!

http://www.womensnet.com/uploads/tx_templavoila/18.___.thumbnail.127.1.TuT_Badesalze_13.jpg

http://herbzipper.com/images/kleenex.gif

[Roll Eyes]

Well, post em up. I have my own routine thank you
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An Exercise in Futility
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quote:
Originally posted by egyguy:
Ladies making claims of harassment,
Please post pics. I don't believe you're all that you claim to be. Pics for us to take your claims seriously and maybe just maybe help you out.

This suggests to me Egyguy that you are thinking that sexual harassment will be related to attractiveness. No, its a power and control thing - in the UK for example there have been instances of 90 year old women being raped and also tiny babies. This link relates to rape specifically.
web page

Now, my experiences of sexual harassment in Egypt are minimal compared to what I and very close friends and relatives have experienced in the UK, and I have never felt in fear of my LIFE in Egypt the way I have in the UK, but I am not belittling the experiences of others here in Egypt at all.

Everyone's opinions will reflect either their own experiences or those of people they know personally.

Some UK people will never have experienced or rarely experienced the things that I list below so will not quite believe its as bad as Egypt, for me, my experience is precisely reversed, and maybe I should consider myself very lucky that I have experienced very little of it in Egypt.

In the **UK** for example, I have either experienced or have close friends/relatives who have experienced the following items of sexual harassement - more than one instance of most of them:

- rape
- men on public transport putting hands up skirts
- men on very crowded metro trains pressing their hard-ons into backs
- men standing in bushes and wanking so school girls can see their 'glory'
- men getting their willies out on trains
- men following late at night in a way DELIBERATELY designed to cause fear
- men walking behind late at night wanking and getting home to discover ejaculate all down back of coat
- men grabbing boobs in public places
- men manoeuvering you into position from which you cannot escape and then groping you
- men in senior positions making life hell and causing loss of job to junior females who reject their advances
- 14 year old boy in class start wanking while teacher writing on board so when she turns round she gets a good view of it
- car loads of young men on Saturday nights driving past whistling, cat-calling and the like
- men at work posting up nudey women calendars when there is only 1 woman working there - and then getting very angry when she retaliates with a fit nudey bloke calendar.
- oh yes, and being propositioned in the toilets of a pub by an aging lesbian

My personal experiences relate to 9 of the above situations and on a couple of occasions I have been terrified for my life. Once I ran into a police station late at night begging a police officer to escort me home because I knew someone (a stranger who was angry with me for rejecting his advances earlier) was waiting for me in the dark side road I had to go up to get home.

Sad but true. Sexual harassment occurs all over the world and in many guises.

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caringforwomen
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oldbag, I've had men show me their dicks. I've had guys grab my boobs. I was not scared, but annoyed.
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Akhbar El Youm is I think related to the newspaper of the same name but not sure?
Just metres away from the ACU Ahram Canadian Uni and the difference was striking! We were in both and others on business.

Tiger
We are having lessons in an American Place, not a university thank God!

Smuckers

You know it is only afer the fact you realise what you 'should have done' but to be honest at the time you just cannot believe what you are seeing.

I was trying to describe it to OB last night but words failed me. You cannot express it because it is something that I have never seen before except in a zoo setting at feeding time.
The camera is a great idea! : )
and I am sure that they would even have posed all hung around each others necks as they were 'that' out of it!! I mean like they were like they were high on drugs or something????
you really had to witness it.......one of those things that you never forget.

Very sad, but also very eye opening too......

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Egyptian Man
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quote:
Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
Sounds like they were threatened by you...not sure why. Sorry to say it is also a maturity issue, and pack mentality. They feed off of each other to be funnier and more insulting...riot mentality runs along the same idea.
I'm sure they loved the fact that you went over and fed into what they were dishing out, isn't there someone in charge of the university that you can complain to? [Confused]
Better yet - take photos next time with your mobile phone and put them on the net...sitting with their boyfriends. [Big Grin] [Razz]

If anything I actually feel you girls are feeding off each other horror stories and being a bit delusional here.
It's not that bad (couldn't or you wouldn't be there at the first place) and it happens all over the world.
And yah, it's been happening since the dawn of history. Instinct is what it's I'm afraid.
I do believe however that - generally speaking - Egypt, with regard to women abuse issues, Egypt is safer than elsewhere.
Link below is to a popular American show. "To Catch A Predator" in case you're not aware!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uZP98VfaJM

Good luck anyway. But don't go on frightening each other sleepless.

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seabreeze
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You're right EgyGuy, we should act like it never happens, that will help things so much better. But it's easy for you to say as you don't have to deal with it. To be honest I don't really either, but I have experienced it a little and can only imagine how it would feel on a daily basis.
Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away, sorry to say that is the main problem with you Egypians. You honestly are so hopeless that you think to ignore problems and issues makes it better. Guess what! It doesn't work that way.

I don't mean to imply that Egypt is any more unsafe than any other place, but this IS an Egypt message board. [Roll Eyes] IMO there needs to be some sort of public service announcements for women on how to handle the problems and the harrassment, and for the apathetic bystanders who turn their head and don't want to see the truth. Everyone is to blame if nobody does anything. [Frown]

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Egyptian Man
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quote:
Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
You're right EgyGuy, we should act like it never happens, that will help things so much better. But it's easy for you to say as you don't have to deal with it. To be honest I don't really either, but I have experienced it a little and can only imagine how it would feel on a daily basis.
Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away, sorry to say that is the main problem with you Egypians. You honestly are so hopeless that you think to ignore problems and issues makes it better. Guess what! It doesn't work that way.


Thank you for confirming my point about most of these posts. Just pure hate. We hopeless Egyptians ha
Well, then .... Leave!
See, unlike some fellow posters here of Egyptian descent but no real affiliation or loyalty to their homeland, I will not try to please you or attack you for that matter just because of where you come from. I'll tell it as it's. Bluntly and without much reference to articles, support groups and that nonsense.
Based on what I saw here and there. I do honestly believe that women are worse off in the west.

A whistle while you walk by, a word that you don't even understand, would pale in comparison to what I see here.

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quote:
Originally posted by egyguy:
I do honestly believe that women are worse off in the west.

NONSENSE!!

You have to be a woman to make this kind of statement. Walk down a street somewhere in Europe or in the US and then walk down a street in Cairo.

HUGE difference!

I don't really understand why you keep contributing to the thread when you don't want to hear what WOMEN have to say about sexual harassment INSIDE of Egypt.

Would you take an Egyptian woman's experience for granted rather than one of a foreign one??

Please Egyptian women come forward and reply to this post. Maybe this man will at least open one ear for you.

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Dalia*
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quote:
Originally posted by Oldbag:
This suggests to me Egyguy that you are thinking that sexual harassment will be related to attractiveness.

I'm really surprised there are still people thinking this since it's obvious that attractiveness has nothing to do with it.

I guess it is just a variation of the argument "maybe your clothes were too revealing". People want to shut you up and make you feel guilty by trying to imply that harassment might be some sort of flattering thing and that we're sort of boasting when we talk about it.

Bizarre. But it reminds me of the reaction of some guys when I throw a really bad insult in Arabic at them. They get sooo upset and offended because - hey - they were only paying you a compliment, what's offensive about that? [Roll Eyes]

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seabreeze
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quote:
Originally posted by egyguy:
quote:
Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
You're right EgyGuy, we should act like it never happens, that will help things so much better. But it's easy for you to say as you don't have to deal with it. To be honest I don't really either, but I have experienced it a little and can only imagine how it would feel on a daily basis.
Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away, sorry to say that is the main problem with you Egypians. You honestly are so hopeless that you think to ignore problems and issues makes it better. Guess what! It doesn't work that way.


Thank you for confirming my point about most of these posts. Just pure hate. We hopeless Egyptians ha
Well, then .... Leave!
See, unlike some fellow posters here of Egyptian descent but no real affiliation or loyalty to their homeland, I will not try to please you or attack you for that matter just because of where you come from. I'll tell it as it's. Bluntly and without much reference to articles, support groups and that nonsense.
Based on what I saw here and there. I do honestly believe that women are worse off in the west.

A whistle while you walk by, a word that you don't even understand, would pale in comparison to what I see here.

Well you would be very wrong. It is quite obvious you have never been outside of Egypt.

Because I said 'you Egyptians' does not mean I have hate, my own daughter is Egyptian so that would be pretty silly. But I'll be damned if I allow her to be raised with the idea that ignoring problems makes them magically go away, perhaps what Egypt needs is a new generation of thinkers outside of the box...or the pyramid or what have you ~

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Egyptian Man
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalia*:
quote:
Originally posted by Oldbag:
This suggests to me Egyguy that you are thinking that sexual harassment will be related to attractiveness.

I'm really surprised there are still people thinking this since it's obvious that attractiveness has nothing to do with it.

I guess it is just a variation of the argument "maybe your clothes were too revealing". People want to shut you up and make you feel guilty by trying to imply that harassment might be some sort of flattering thing and that we're sort of boasting when we talk about it.

Bizarre. But it reminds me of the reaction of some guys when I throw a really bad insult in Arabic at them. They get sooo upset and offended because - hey - they were only paying you a compliment, what's offensive about that? [Roll Eyes]

Yes, what's the big deal. So, you walk by and a guy honks, or says something.... big deal. Should be flattering if we're talking a normal sane woman.
But I get it. Maybe because the streets are filled with guys that you wouldn't normally go out with. It's about the source. I know. Simple really. If me for example, a handsome attractive devil made a move on you, you would probably smile. But the poor Falah (peasant) is not allowed.
Women and discrimination ....!

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Egyptian Man
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quote:
Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
quote:
Originally posted by egyguy:
quote:
Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
You're right EgyGuy, we should act like it never happens, that will help things so much better. But it's easy for you to say as you don't have to deal with it. To be honest I don't really either, but I have experienced it a little and can only imagine how it would feel on a daily basis.
Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away, sorry to say that is the main problem with you Egypians. You honestly are so hopeless that you think to ignore problems and issues makes it better. Guess what! It doesn't work that way.


Thank you for confirming my point about most of these posts. Just pure hate. We hopeless Egyptians ha
Well, then .... Leave!
See, unlike some fellow posters here of Egyptian descent but no real affiliation or loyalty to their homeland, I will not try to please you or attack you for that matter just because of where you come from. I'll tell it as it's. Bluntly and without much reference to articles, support groups and that nonsense.
Based on what I saw here and there. I do honestly believe that women are worse off in the west.

A whistle while you walk by, a word that you don't even understand, would pale in comparison to what I see here.

Well you would be very wrong. It is quite obvious you have never been outside of Egypt.

Because I said 'you Egyptians' does not mean I have hate, my own daughter is Egyptian so that would be pretty silly. But I'll be damned if I allow her to be raised with the idea that ignoring problems makes them magically go away, perhaps what Egypt needs is a new generation of thinkers outside of the box...or the pyramid or what have you ~

Haven't you learned in school that generalizations are uh ... kinda stupid. Especially when it comes to ethnicity or race.
However I do have to admit that I can't stand Asians. Their girls are cute though!

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seabreeze
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Sorry I should have said many Egyptians - I know not all think in such a way.
BTW, didn't you generalize!? [Big Grin] [Razz]

Salaam. [Wink]

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Egyptian Man
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quote:
Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
Sorry I should have said many Egyptians - I know not all think in such a way.
BTW, didn't you generalize!? [Big Grin] [Razz]

Salaam. [Wink]

But why so serious?
What's the big deal. Take it as a compliment.
Prediction. 20 years from now you would wish to hear some [Wink]

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Egyptian Man
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Smuckers u there?
Annoyed at me. No more talk?

Women, they just wanna hear what they want!

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seabreeze
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Sorry I was answering a PM. [Smile]
Serious about what? [Smile] I'm far from serious. [Wink]

Of course we women just want to hear what we want to hear, who doesn't? [Big Grin]

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Dalia*
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quote:
Originally posted by egyguy:

But I get it. Maybe because the streets are filled with guys that you wouldn't normally go out with. It's about the source. I know. Simple really. If me for example, a handsome attractive devil made a move on you, you would probably smile. But the poor Falah (peasant) is not allowed.

We seem to be speaking different languages judging by what you read into my posts.

It is NOT flattering to receive a comment on the street, no matter who it is coming from, full stop. Why do these guys think they have to throw their opinion at me? I'm not a piece of meat on display for them to evaluate. Why do they think I care to hear their opinion? I don't!

Interesting that you seem to assume it's only low class or unattractive guys harassing women because this is definitely not the case. Handsome guys, guys in expensive cars or with expensive clothes harass women just the same. They are also the ones stopping beside you in their big cars asking you to get in. *puke*

I wouldn't ever go out with anyone who approaches me on the street because the fact that he does that makes him a despisable lowlife in my eyes, no matter how handsome he might be.

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Egyptian Man
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But let's say it's done in a tactful manner. Mind you, the result is the same!
So, a guy in good shape, well groomed says something interesting. Nothing direct but u being a smart woman, do understand his intention eventually.
What would you do. And yes, it happens on the street.
What would you do?
Be honest now!
Other ladies are welcome as well to contribute.

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Egyptian Man
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quote:
Originally posted by egyguy:
But let's say it's done in a tactful manner. Mind you, the result is the same!
So, a guy in good shape, well groomed says something interesting. Nothing direct but u being a smart woman, do understand his intention eventually.
What would you do. And yes, it happens on the street.
What would you do?
Be honest now!
Other ladies are welcome as well to contribute.

Dalia, u there?
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caringforwomen
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Egyguy, if he was politely asking me out, I would not mind. If he just wanted sex, and then followed me around when I refused his advances, then I would get angry and tell him off.
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quote:
Originally posted by egyguy:
But let's say it's done in a tactful manner. Mind you, the result is the same!
So, a guy in good shape, well groomed says something interesting. Nothing direct but u being a smart woman, do understand his intention eventually.
What would you do. And yes, it happens on the street.
What would you do?
Be honest now!
Other ladies are welcome as well to contribute.

Okay, my contribution: I would look at him from head-to-toe first,as if I stepped into dog-****.
Then I would turn around and go on. Not a word from me!

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Almaz.
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quote:
Originally posted by caringforwomen:
Egyguy, if he was politely asking me out, I would not mind. If he just wanted sex, and then followed me around when I refused his advances, then I would get angry and tell him off.

Answering someone that hits on you in the street is totally not recommended.
Egyptian mentality: If you answer someone that hits on you, you are easy. SIMPLE.

Meeting men from the street is totally a nono. Regardless of their appearance. 'Some' men in cars could also be drug dealers or pimps.

We hear this all the time, and social workers, psychologists, families have to deal with these people after the fact, we see these stories also in documentaries, from unfortunate incidents reported in the newspapers etc..

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if there are Egyptian men out there who think that whistling, commenting, winking, flirting, think in any way that they are being 'seductive' to a female they are SO wrong!

Especially of the Egyptian type.

Yes you may hit lucky on few in the resorts, or our european friends out looking specifically for that type of entertainment but you wont find any 'decent' woman offer you anything but contempt.

I think Egyguy that if you are getting favourable reactions to your seduction techniques then your obviously pleased with your results, but please dont think for one second that any woman who has any dignity will entertain you for a second.

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