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Author Topic: Cairo post departure (about the revolution)
An Exercise in Futility
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quote:
Originally posted by Exiiled:

she was hip to hip with all classes of Egyptian society including the poorest.
[/QB]

yep, I was!! nothing like being squashed up on a 'jolly green giant' bus to be 'hip to hip' with the Egyptian people LOL
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An Exercise in Futility
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Muslims helping to restore Imbaba church.

http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/452760


Is the Egyptian economy on the brink of collapse? Not according to this article http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/447462


Army not going to be present at the Friday protests "In the statement, the SCAF also noted that the armed forces would not to be present in the area of the protests in order to avoid the risk of any attempts to drive a wedge between the armed forces and the people. It said the role of the armed forces would be limited to securing major locations against security threats."

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Ayisha
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Wow, some powerful posts there Shanta, *Like* buttons all the way..

Things here are still all functioning as normal, the ac man due at 12 today still hasn't arrived, power cuts still happening as normal although the west bank do get more, they have to light up that mountain of VOK somehow, but that's always been like that.

People are still helpful as always, caleche men still a pain.

I sat tonight having a coffee outside the restaurant I used to work at but at it's new position where a few more English style restaurants are, and Arkwrights shop, and there were a few tourists about but it's hot now so there will be less anyway. always is in summer here.

The point you mentioned about governors wanting their piece of businesses, same here, thousands that little creep Samir Ferag had and glad he's gone, maybe businesses will have a chance now without all the backsheesh that ruins them. Luxor had an olympic sized public swimming pool, the bastage sold it off to Mamdour Phillip for his fecking hotel so now no public pool although we were promised a new one. On paper he sold it for pennies, in reality he pocketed thousandssssssssssssss.

ggrrr

--------------------
If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them.

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Worried tourists turn backs on Egypt


Financial Times
By Heba Saleh in Cairo

Published: May 26 2011 19:12 | Last updated: May 26 2011 19:12

Excerpts:

"...The decline this time has been huge,” said Elhamy El Zayat, chairman of the Egyptian Tourism Federation.

“This is worst we have ever witnessed. It is a bigger drop than after the September 11 attacks.”

Mr Zayat said: “You can’t buy off fear.”


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/381bebda-87c2-11e0-a6de-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1NWvxmmw0


And Ayisha says the tourists are coming haha!!!!

Makes you wonder.... Perhaps Mr. Zayat is incompetent for the job or needs new glasses? He seriously should consult with Ayisha as she knows best. [Roll Eyes]

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Ayisha
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Just saying what I SEE [Roll Eyes]

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If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them.

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quote:
Originally posted by Exiiled:
Tigerlily is cherry picking articles and even tweets. Desperately trying to come off as she knows what is going on in Egypt. Fact is she doesn't, she has proved this on numerous occasions with her cut and paste posts. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Hmmmm you don't like the articles I post and you don't like the opinions what I have. What can we do about it???

I tell you what, camel boy, just ignore me and the stuff I do on here. It will make your life much more easier believe me. I mean it's already easy enough of not having to work for your whole life, right? Today is Friday, no work day, but for you EVERY DAY is Friday. WOWW.... not. [Confused]

Don't tell me you care about Egyptians and about their suffering when you sit on the other side of the globe in some Asian country and dad pays for all your living expenses right down to the toilet paper you have to use. What kind of man, what kind of human being are you? No wonder they wanted you to go as far away from them as possible.

Really you are the last person who should judge and critize others as you have nothing accomplished in life, and you never will. And that's just the way you like it. LOSER.

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quote:
Originally posted by Ayisha:
Just saying what I SEE [Roll Eyes]

I take it as 'when I am wrong I just roll eyes on here.' [Big Grin]
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Ayisha
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quote:
Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:
Originally posted by Ayisha:
Just saying what I SEE [Roll Eyes]

I take it as 'when I am wrong I just roll eyes on here.' [Big Grin]
No I'm not wrong and I am saying what I see actually living here. The rolling eyes was for those who think the FT certainly know better than those living here when those living here have no particular agenda and the FT need to sell NEWS.

Really TL you believe whatever you wish, it makes no difference to the reality of it and as you prefer to scaremonger I and others living here will continue to post facts that we SEE.

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quote:
Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:
Originally posted by Exiiled:
Tigerlily is cherry picking articles and even tweets. Desperately trying to come off as she knows what is going on in Egypt. Fact is she doesn't, she has proved this on numerous occasions with her cut and paste posts. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Hmmmm you don't like the articles I post and you don't like the opinions what I have. What can we do about it???

I tell you what, camel boy, just ignore me and the stuff I do on here. It will make your life much more easier believe me. I mean it's already easy enough of not having to work for your whole life, right? Today is Friday, no work day, but for you EVERY DAY is Friday. WOWW.... not. [Confused]

Don't tell me you care about Egyptians and about their suffering when you sit on the other side of the globe in some Asian country and dad pays for all your living expenses right down to the toilet paper you have to use. What kind of man, what kind of human being are you? No wonder they wanted you to go as far away from them as possible.

Really you are the last person who should judge and critize others as you have nothing accomplished in life, and you never will. And that's just the way you like it. LOSER.


quote:
Originally posted by Exiiled:
I would like to bring attention to this trip across town, that this western blondie took:....."

Ever thought of the idea that she is cheap? She documented about her living expenses in the first year of living in Egypt on her blog. And I can tell you this much - the ordinary foreign expat is not living like this.

And if she likes to use seedy microbuses for the purpose of transportation and she has enough time on her hand why not?

If I told you I used one of the busses before and had a bad experience you wouldn't believe me either and declare my claim as

quote:
Originally posted by Exiiled:
Take your fear-mongering hatred elsewhere tigerlilly. You have been exposed.

That the guy waited until all passengers were out and drove around with me and my little son in an for me unknown area and when I had enough and demanded to exit he kept the door closed and wanted a payment of 100 LE this can't be true, right?

Because Egyptians are so nice and helpful, all of them, right. Perhaps I made this experience because I wasn't a blondie. [Confused]

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quote:
Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:
Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:
Originally posted by Ayisha:
Just saying what I SEE [Roll Eyes]

I take it as 'when I am wrong I just roll eyes on here.' [Big Grin]
No I'm not wrong and I am saying what I see actually living here. The rolling eyes was for those who think the FT certainly know better than those living here when those living here have no particular agenda and the FT need to sell NEWS.

Really TL you believe whatever you wish, it makes no difference to the reality of it and as you prefer to scaremonger I and others living here will continue to post facts that we SEE.

No problem Ayisha. I realize you want to stay positive about your life in Egypt. You don't want to hear the bad. You should have just stated so in the beginning.

You say this and Egyptian government officials say that. In the end of the day you have to live there. You have to deal with everything what's going on right now and what will happen in the future.

But if you call me a 'scaremonger' I call you just delusional.

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Ayisha
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quote:
Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:
Originally posted by Exiiled:
Tigerlily is cherry picking articles and even tweets. Desperately trying to come off as she knows what is going on in Egypt. Fact is she doesn't, she has proved this on numerous occasions with her cut and paste posts. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Hmmmm you don't like the articles I post and you don't like the opinions what I have. What can we do about it???

I tell you what, camel boy, just ignore me and the stuff I do on here. It will make your life much more easier believe me. I mean it's already easy enough of not having to work for your whole life, right? Today is Friday, no work day, but for you EVERY DAY is Friday. WOWW.... not. [Confused]

Don't tell me you care about Egyptians and about their suffering when you sit on the other side of the globe in some Asian country and dad pays for all your living expenses right down to the toilet paper you have to use. What kind of man, what kind of human being are you? No wonder they wanted you to go as far away from them as possible.

Really you are the last person who should judge and critize others as you have nothing accomplished in life, and you never will. And that's just the way you like it. LOSER.

camel boy???? WTF is wrong with you TL? What's with all the personal abuse lately? [Confused]
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda:
@TL - it's not that we're pulling down the blinds on it, but on the one hand you know (as everyone does and no, it wasn't a new thought) that this will take a lot of time and on the other hand you are slamming the whole thing and wishing Mubarak back because it isn't all tidily sorted out in 4 months (with your hero ElBaradi being ridden into power on the backs of the revolutionaries - shame he has to go through elections like anyone else)!

What a nonsense. Mubarak ain't coming back, the chapter is done but the whole transition period could have been way smoother for Egypt and it's people. That's what I stated right after Mubarak stepped down in middle of February.

And under Mubarak people knew what they are having and what they are able to get. Most Egyptians are know fully uncertain.

As for ElBaradei. You don't like him? Why not? Who do you personally want to see as new President?

IMHO Don't think ElBaradei will make it. Egyptians are more fond of Amr Moussa, you should know you live in Egypt, right?


As for you stating:

quote:
Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda:
It's just 4 months - 17 weeks - since the revolution started.

If you had got preganant on that day,


Your baby is now nearly 11cm long from crown to rump and weighs about 140g. His skeleton is mostly rubbery cartilage, but will start to harden as the weeks go by.
http://www.babycentre.co.uk/pregnancy/fetaldevelopment/17weeks/


If you couldn't even grow a single whole baby in that time, how the heck do you suppose to change an entire society in that time?

Give it time!

As for the 'four months remark': Yeah it's been only a short time since the uprising.

The change just started but you wouldn't send an infant right off to college, now would you?

Small steps a a time and the protesters want everything right now, right in this minute. They are moaning and whining, typical Egyptian 'drama queens' lol.

Believe me lots of them are protesting because that's their new hobby. The feel the power of demonstations and the 'strong man factor'.

Just yesterday many of them handed out offensive flyers about the Armed Forces. They try to create friction between them and the soldiers so in case people getting hurt and even killed during protests again they can point fingers on the Army and say 'You are the bad ones. You need to go." That's why the Army said they won't protect people during today's protest.

Just don't think that all protesters are genuine in their efforts. Some of them climbed to stardom during the revolution, they became hungry for celebrity status, they became arrogant.

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Ayisha
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quote:
Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:
Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:
Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:
Originally posted by Ayisha:
Just saying what I SEE [Roll Eyes]

I take it as 'when I am wrong I just roll eyes on here.' [Big Grin]
No I'm not wrong and I am saying what I see actually living here. The rolling eyes was for those who think the FT certainly know better than those living here when those living here have no particular agenda and the FT need to sell NEWS.

Really TL you believe whatever you wish, it makes no difference to the reality of it and as you prefer to scaremonger I and others living here will continue to post facts that we SEE.

No problem Ayisha. I realize you want to stay positive about your life in Egypt. You don't want to hear the bad. You should have just stated so in the beginning.
I don't mind hearing the bad, I have had bad experiences here as well as good, same as back in UK. Just putting my point across as a foreigner living in Luxor which is one of the most popular tourist places in Egypt. There are not masses of tourists granted, but they are here and they are coming. Sorry you don't want to hear a different side to those trying to sell news.

quote:
You say this and Egyptian government officials say that. In the end of the day you have to live there. You have to deal with everything what's going on right now and what will happen in the future.
Yes I do live here and I am dealing with it WITH Egyptians on a daily basis.

quote:
But if you call me a 'scaremonger' I call you just delusional.
you forgot to add ne ne ne ne ne

[Wink]

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citizen
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TL, we all know Egypt's problems. The revolution happened because people couldn't take any more. That's the point you're not getting. The whole system of rich and poor, repression, violence etc was unsustainable. Something had to happen. Now we have to work hard to make sure we rebuild a country like yours.

Of course the press reports the sensationalist stuff, trials, protests etc. Most news worldwide is bad news, isn't it? They don't report routine stuff like political meetings of fledgling parties.

There's a lot happening that you won't find on twitter or the news.

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Ayisha
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quote:
Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:
Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:
Originally posted by Exiiled:
Tigerlily is cherry picking articles and even tweets. Desperately trying to come off as she knows what is going on in Egypt. Fact is she doesn't, she has proved this on numerous occasions with her cut and paste posts. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Hmmmm you don't like the articles I post and you don't like the opinions what I have. What can we do about it???

I tell you what, camel boy, just ignore me and the stuff I do on here. It will make your life much more easier believe me. I mean it's already easy enough of not having to work for your whole life, right? Today is Friday, no work day, but for you EVERY DAY is Friday. WOWW.... not. [Confused]

Don't tell me you care about Egyptians and about their suffering when you sit on the other side of the globe in some Asian country and dad pays for all your living expenses right down to the toilet paper you have to use. What kind of man, what kind of human being are you? No wonder they wanted you to go as far away from them as possible.

Really you are the last person who should judge and critize others as you have nothing accomplished in life, and you never will. And that's just the way you like it. LOSER.


quote:
Originally posted by Exiiled:
I would like to bring attention to this trip across town, that this western blondie took:....."

Ever thought of the idea that she is cheap? She documented about her living expenses in the first year of living in Egypt on her blog. And I can tell you this much - the ordinary foreign expat is not living like this.
who do you define as the 'ordinary foreign expat' to make a statement like that? So people who use buses are cheap now? Are your 'ordinary foreign expats' ones who have plenty of retirement money and assets, coz not all of us foreign expats have that, so we're not 'ordinary' in your book? There is a difference in an expat living here who never mixes with Egyptians, frequents the English clubs and the marriot and those who do live the life here the same way as most 'ordinary' Egyptians do.

quote:
And if she likes to use seedy microbuses for the purpose of transportation and she has enough time on her hand why not?

If I told you I used one of the busses before and had a bad experience you wouldn't believe me either and declare my claim as

quote:
Originally posted by Exiiled:
Take your fear-mongering hatred elsewhere tigerlilly. You have been exposed.

That the guy waited until all passengers were out and drove around with me and my little son in an for me unknown area and when I had enough and demanded to exit he kept the door closed and wanted a payment of 100 LE this can't be true, right?
so one bad experience and they are all the same right? I advice everyone never to use a butchers shop here then based on that twisted logic.

quote:
Because Egyptians are so nice and helpful, all of them, right. Perhaps I made this experience because I wasn't a blondie. [Confused]
something really not right about you lately! [Confused]
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*Dalia*
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quote:
Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:

Ever thought of the idea that she is cheap? She documented about her living expenses in the first year of living in Egypt on her blog. And I can tell you this much - the ordinary foreign expat is not living like this.

I'd say it is entirely irrelevant *why* she takes microbusses, the discussion was about safety in Cairo.

In any case, there is a difference between being cheap and using your limited resources sensibly. 6th of October is far out, going there or coming back from there in a taxi can easily cost you 100 LE or more, depending on the traffic on the ring road, which is often bad.

I've been to 6th of October and back on microbusses many times, even very late at night. It's no big deal, and, no, microbusses are not seedy or disgusting, and people on there are usually helpful.

I take the Metro all the time – not for financial reasons but because it gets me from Maadi to downtown or Heliopolis much faster than a car. It's reliable, clean and safe. And I'm not the only foreigner using it.

As for the "ordinary foreign expat" – not every foreign expat here is rich and lives in a $3000 apartment, driving an SUV and employing a maid, cook etc. There are many on local salaries or on salaries that would be low/medium range by European standards who have to keep an eye on their expenses.


quote:
Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:

And if she likes to use seedy microbuses for the purpose of transportation and she has enough time on her hand why not?

When you're stuck in Cairo traffic, it does not matter whether you're in a microbus or in a car … it will take the same time. [Wink]
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Ayisha
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quote:
Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
Mubarak ain't coming back, the chapter is done but the whole transition period could have been way smoother for Egypt and it's people.

The change just started but you wouldn't send an infant right off to college, now would you?

Small steps a a time and the protesters want everything right now, right in this minute.

"could" have been smoother if the entire LOT weren't as corrupt as babaMu

yes the infant needs to GROW and find his feet, not easy when it's been used to someone chopping his legs off for 60 years.

No they don't want everything right now, they want to be HEARD, they want things STARTING on a footing they can TRUST with people they feel they can trust for a change and they want that to start BEFORE they elect anyone else as they don't want to have another dictator replace the last one.

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An Exercise in Futility
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quote:
Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:
Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda:
@TL - it's not that we're pulling down the blinds on it, but on the one hand you know (as everyone does and no, it wasn't a new thought) that this will take a lot of time and on the other hand you are slamming the whole thing and wishing Mubarak back because it isn't all tidily sorted out in 4 months (with your hero ElBaradi being ridden into power on the backs of the revolutionaries - shame he has to go through elections like anyone else)!

What a nonsense. Mubarak ain't coming back, the chapter is done but the whole transition period could have been way smoother for Egypt and it's people. That's what I stated right after Mubarak stepped down in middle of February.

And under Mubarak people knew what they are having and what they are able to get. Most Egyptians are know fully uncertain.

As for ElBaradei. You don't like him? Why not? Who do you personally want to see as new President?

IMHO Don't think ElBaradei will make it. Egyptians are more fond of Amr Moussa, you should know you live in Egypt, right?

I didn't comment as to whether I like ElBaradei or not, I just know that before the revolution YOU were all for him and since he didn't come riding in on his white charger to rescue a grateful nation, you have totally rejected everything.

I don't have a view on who should be president as yet because I don't know who all the candidates will be or what they will stand for. If I did have, I wouldn't state it publicly. It is for Egyptians to decide, not me.

I don't see how the transition could have been done any more smoothly unless one dictatorship was substituted directly with another.

Oh - and so maybe I live more cheaply than other foreign expats, I know I live less cheaply than other expats. We're not all oil-company employees you know!

As to why I go on the buses etc, a lot of expats live in prisons of fear of their own making, doing nothing but rubbishing Egyptians and cranking themselves up into hysterical states precisely because they read the bad news and don't actually get out and experience it for themselves.

Bad experiences happen across the globe and Egypt is still a lot safer than many other countries. The way you go on though, you would think that there is zero crime in Germany or Europe or the US or UK or wherever.

I have been burgled in the UK, also caught a burglar trying to break into my home through a bedroom window, I was off sick that day and lying in bed when I saw the hand coming in. I have been mugged and assaulted (the worst kind) in the UK. Saturday nights, I ran the gamut of drunken young men - usually relatively highly paid City types - roaming round in cars screaming sexual abuse. Minicab (illegal taxi drivers) drive off and assault passengers who were daft enough or ignorant enough to use them. Harassment in the workplace does exist and despite all the high-falutin' 'Harassment Policies' what actually happens is the junior has to leave and the senior gets barely a slap on the wrist. I've seen it happen too many times and helped one girl fight her case by advising her to document everything so the company HAD to do something instead of dismissing things as 'personality clash'.

When I was living in Germany, the men used to go into the hedges in the Kurpark or near the public swimming pools and wank themselves off at passing teenage girls - we all saw them and learn the smell of spunk - can't abide the smell of celery seed ever since. Two of my friends were kidnapped by guys on motorbikes in the Munich area and held for a few hours. And I just remembered a male friend of mine was seriously sexually assaulted by a well-known at the time male classical singer at the hotel we worked in, in Germany.

Tourists to Florida get shot the first night (google it, I can't be assd), mugged.


I don't know why we waste effort debating with you as you are 100% completely negative about the whole thing. As in any major corporate change - there are the 20% all for it, the 60% 'maybe we'll see' and the 20% who will never ever be fore it so don't expend any management effort on trying to convince those because you never will, spend your time on the 60%. (%s might be slightly different, but can't be bothered to google it right now).

Right, that's my input for the day and probably for the next week!

I'm just hoping today's demo is relatively peaceful because I know a lot of Egyptians are worried about it.

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Mrs Hassan
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@TL.. You having a bad day or what?? The comments and insults your throwing a people are not needed. Plus i dont understand why your coming to egypt on holiday, with all the negative comments your writing... it definately does not help promote egypt! Also why not write about your good experiences rather than the bad... its good to know them too...
I read the media too, I see the comments, I watch the T.V, see the reports on crime etc.but if I spent my days worrying about it, not getting on with my life and trying to make a change to Egypt.. hell i would be just as bitter and twisted as you seem to be lately.

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@tigerlilly – everyone is entitled to an opinion and when your fearmongering contradicts the realities on the ground do expect a rebuke. Let's not kid ourselves though, something hasn't been right with you for some time. I'm not the only one to take notice.
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Thanks for a reasonable response. [Smile]

quote:
Of course we lived good. We lived much better than millions of German living right now!!!

We all had affordable apartments to live in, clean environment, good food, free education, work for all (unemployment was unheard of), free healthcare, affordable childcare, playgrounds, discos.... believe it or not but people in East Germany were not dead and they knew how to have a good time.

We produced successful scientists, athletes, artists you name it. We had everything expect freedom to travel (only to several countries - socialistic of course and f.e. we sent our workers also off to Egypt) and exotic fruits.... and I do remember my mom did complain about the horrible coffee in East Germany lol.

Yes, I am well aware of that.

My point is: Despite the fact that many things were good in East Germany, despite the fact that people were in general quite educated, not starving, had a healthcare and childcare system etc. pp.; despite the fact that their situation in general, as you pointed out, was definitely better than the situation of the Egyptian people – despite all this, there had always been people who found the system so unbearable that they risked their lifes to escape it, and not few died doing so. And despite all this, the people in East Germany were fed up with their system to the point that masses took to the streets.

So when you say Egyptians shouldn't have had a revolution because under Mubarak they had "stability", then, judging by your logic, the East German people should not have taken to the streets either since their situation wasn't really that bad.

That's what I perceive as a double standard. I just don't understand the logic behind it.


quote:
And really if you didn't open up your mouth and spoke against the current government you were well off - which would fall under the term restricted freedom of speech.
Exactly.
Just like in Egypt under Mubarak, there was a certain class in East Germany who lived very well. Just like in Mubarak's Egypt there was a system of corruption, of people abusing the system, of people spying on each other, of police brutality and of people being killed because they were against the system.

So again – if I apply what you say about the Egyptian people to the situation in the GDR, then people should have just tolerated the bad things and kept everything as it was.


quote:
But if you want to do - Egypt is way worse off imho. Among other things I pointed out yesterday already it's also the fact that the country is heavily overpopulated. I posted the numbers back in February on here and I can do it again. It doesn't look good. Even the most democratic government will not be able to deal with this dilemma.
Yes, of course Egypt is way worse off, and there are serious problems that need to be dealt with. Nobody here is denying that, quite the opposite. The point is that those problems would not have gotten better had Mubarak stayed in power and that it will take time to implement positive changes.


quote:
But what I am saying it's like you are all closing your blinds, you don't want to hear about it.
Sometimes I am wondering if we are reading the same board.
[Confused]
I don't have the impression that any of the people living here who have posted on this thread are closing their eyes to the problems in Egypt. All those posters, me included, have often criticized many things about it.

What we are objecting to is your insistence that there exists only one version of the truth, and that this is the one you are getting from the news. Believe it or not, we are following the news as well, but we are also talking to Egyptians on a daily basis and observing the situation here. It would be more beneficial to the whole discussion if all of us acknowledged that everyone's POV is just one aspect of the truth, and that in order to see the whole picture we have to take all those observations into consideration.

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Apparently stuff has kicked off in Tahrir today but I don't know what.
Just checking the news sources - not got tv right now!

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Can't find anything in English - if anyone knows enough arabic and is willing to check twitter and dostor etc, please let us know what's going down!

One tweet in English from @Lilianwagdy:

"Can we plz mobilize for next Friday starting from now. I don't ever wanna see #Tahrir in the mess I've seen it in today"

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Further info on today's demos:

http://www.thedailynewsegypt.com/region/mixed-demands-mark-friday-protest-in-tahrir.html

Quite a small one.

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quote:
Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda:
Further info on today's demos:

http://www.thedailynewsegypt.com/region/mixed-demands-mark-friday-protest-in-tahrir.html

Quite a small one.

I'd say enough is enough, no more demos please.
I know a few hundreds don't disrupt work, etc, but it's not about actual disruption but about the perception of uncertainty, instability and lack of control that such actions raise.

Let us have an election as soon as possilbe, and as long as it is a fair election then whoever wins will be representative of the people and will have the mandate to govern and write a new constitution. I don't think any single party or political directoin will have an overall majority.
We need to get the military out of power ASAP, not that I don't turst them, but it's just that it's not their job. As someone said on telly, they're ruling with a shakey hand. You do feel that they don't quite know what they want or have to do.
Enough is enough!

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quote:
Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda:
Further info on today's demos:

http://www.thedailynewsegypt.com/region/mixed-demands-mark-friday-protest-in-tahrir.html

Quite a small one.

You are not disappointed, are you?
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
quote:
Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda:
Further info on today's demos:

http://www.thedailynewsegypt.com/region/mixed-demands-mark-friday-protest-in-tahrir.html

Quite a small one.

I'd say enough is enough, no more demos please.
I know a few hundreds don't disrupt work, etc, but it's not about actual disruption but about the perception of uncertainty, instability and lack of control that such actions raise.

Let us have an election as soon as possilbe, and as long as it is a fair election then whoever wins will be representative of the people and will have the mandate to govern and write a new constitution. I don't think any single party or political directoin will have an overall majority.
We need to get the military out of power ASAP, not that I don't turst them, but it's just that it's not their job. As someone said on telly, they're ruling with a shakey hand. You do feel that they don't quite know what they want or have to do.
Enough is enough!

Alf shukr, alf shukr for your comment. I am relieved to hear such words coming out of the mouth of an Egyptian (online as well). That's what I've been saying all along.

Freedom and democracy sound good but what the Egyptians actually really want is to bring back their economy right now. This won't happen if foreigners stay away out of fear of instability etc.

I returned from Hurghada last night, yeah business is going on, but not a lot of tourists for this time of the year. Everybody is complaining, everybody. And it doesn't look like the situation will change within the next few months.

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Very interesting article. Read it.

Democracy low on Egyptians’ lists of priorities

Monday Jun 6, 2011 - 16:27

http://english.youm7.com/News.asp?NewsID=340692

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Kidnapping in Egypt on the rise

By Ahmed Abdel Aziz - The Egyptian Gazette
Saturday, June 4, 2011 04:31:53 PM

CAIRO - Current incidents of kidnapping are spreading fear and consternation among Egyptian families.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the early days of the January 25 revolution, policemen were suddenly withdrawn from police stations on January 28, resulting in a state of unrest and chaos prevailing in Egypt with thugs and criminals benefiting from the security vacuum.
In April, gunmen abducted Zeina Effat el-Sadat, the 12-year-old grandniece of the late Egyptian leader Anwar el-Sadat. But they released her nearly 24 hours later after $5 million ransom was paid by her family.
There has been a surge in violence over the past weeks. In the aftermath of the January 25 revolution, there have been 40 incidents of kidnapping recorded, according to statistics on this crime compiled by the Public Security Department, which is affiliated to the Ministry of the Interior.
General Sayyed Shafiq, the Deputy Director of Public Security's Central Zone, has claimed that “police officers have succeeded in recovering all of the kidnapped children. These cases of kidnapping are rife because of the chaos that Egyptians are suffering nowadays.”
Shafiq added: “In some incidents, when a girl has disappeared in an apparent kidnapping, she had secretly agreed with a boyfriend to extort money from her father by demanding a ransom for her return.” According to him, most of the kidnappers have no criminal records.
However, Ahmed Magdi Hegazi, a professor of sociology, told the semi-official Al-Ahram newspapaer: “Escaped prisoners, outlaws and thugs have spread fear and alarm in society [since 28 January] and have kidnapped children, aspiring to get money through the ransoms.”
He added that in most cases, children were being kidnapped to be used in criminal gangs, such as beggars, thieves or drug dealers, or for sexual exploitation including prostitution.
Hegazi stressed that parents are responsible for looking after their children: “They should not leave their children unattended.”
A Public Security official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, disclosed that most kidnapping cases occur in Greater Cairo governorates.
The kidnappers, he continued, focus on wealthy figures and in the majority of cases they either have some kind of relationship with the victim's parents or are their relatives. Parents must not be overconfident in others.


http://213.158.162.45/~egyptian/index.php?action=news&id=18899&title=Kidnapping%20in%20Egypt%20on%20the%20rise

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"Nineteen Egyptians who died during the 25 January revolution were buried on Thursday after efforts to identify them failed.

Hundreds participated in funeral prayers at Sayyed Nafisa mosque in Cairo before the unidentified bodies were buried at the neighboring al-Imam al-Shaf’ey graveyard....."


http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/466378

http://twitpic.com/593dl4


That's pretty sad that no one seems to miss these young men.

[Frown]

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Topic: Well, Here's a Downside of the Egyptian Revolution: Terrorists at large


http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=005500

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It’s Time to Debunk the Many Myths of the Egyptian Revolution

Written by Sarah Grebowski


Egyptians appreciate the attention they’re getting these days. They take great pride in their revolution, which is portrayed in the international media as being not just inspirational, but classy. It was swift, peaceful, and led by a generation of technology-savvy activists, so the narrative goes. This exemplary revolution has earned Egyptians a new platform with which to provide leadership in regional and international affairs. But with this platform, Egyptians would like you to know a few things. In fact, a desire to debunk conventional knowledge about Egypt’s revolution has become commonplace in statements from activists and academics alike.

Firstly, the Egyptian revolution was not sudden or unexpected, but was the culmination of more than a decade of popular struggle. New theories emerging from academics like Dina Shehata from the Al-Ahram Center for Political and Strategic Studies- and backed by prominent activists- explain that the protests the world saw on January 25th in Egypt actually began in 2000 with the second Palestinian intifada. An organization called the Popular Committee for the Support of the Palestinian Intifada provided a new model for activism characterized by street protests with pro-democracy demands led by a new generation of activists who came from a variety of ideological backgrounds but were uniformly jaded by formal politics. This new trend of action was then recycled to animate campaigns such as Kifaya, the April 6th Youth Movement, the National Association for Change (the campaign backing Mohamed ElBaradei), and finally the January 25th protests.

This is not to say that protests grew and grew, exploding in early 2011- in fact, momentum waned significantly throughout this evolution. But the Egyptian revolution did not “come out of nowhere,” as the world seems to believe.

Secondly, what happened in Egypt was not merely a “Facebook” revolution, nor one of young activists. It was the participation of Egypt’s subaltern- lower class segments of society who are excluded from power structures and are certainly not plugged into the internet- that truly boosted the revolution’s momentum. Rabab El Mahdi from the American University in Cairo explains that these people not only amplified the size and scope of protests but also contributed important revolutionary know-how to them, for example tactics in dealing with the riot police. Let’s face it- internet gurus did not lead the charge on January 28th, picking up tear gas canisters and chucking them back at the riot police, building effective barricades to defend Tahrir Square, or halting ambulances that were carrying ammunition to Mubarak’s forces.

Furthermore, the actual fall of Mubarak can be attributed to the millions of workers who went on strike during the last few days of the revolution. It was they who tipped the scale of collective action in Egypt, prompting the military to force Mr. Mubarak out.

Along similar lines, the revolution was not peaceful. Protesters fired RPGs at a police station in the Northern Sinai and burned others to the ground. Hossam el-Hamalawy, Egypt’s best known activist, explained in a recent talk that although some Egyptian protesters chanted “silmiyya,” meaning “peaceful,” others threw rocks and molotov cocktails at the police. Some did both simultaneously. In el-Hamalawy’s words, “This [the revolution] was not a dinner party… People died.” Activists’ assertion that the revolution was indeed violent is in part a reaction to rather obtuse claims from Western media outlets and academics that political scientist Gene Sharp’s theories of nonviolent resistance inspired Egyptian strategies of mobilization.

Lastly, the revolution is not over. What Egyptians have achieved is to disassemble the country’s old order (or perhaps, to borrow a phrase from Steve Heydemann from the U.S. Institute of Peace, simply “decapitated” it). It’s clear from unmet demands and the subsequently continued presence of protesters in Tahrir Square that the Egyptian revolution has not yet brought about revolutionary change. Citizens are quite aware that the Supreme Council of Armed Forces, currently managing Egypt’s transition, is no less authoritarian than the Mubarak regime. Overthrowing Mubarak was in reality the first step in a much longer-term, fluid, and transformational process.

Democracy should be not assumed as the end goal of this process. If Egyptians are to establish a functional democracy- an elusive goal, as democratization is an open-ended pursuit- it will take much time and many setbacks.

Much of the world sees Egypt’s revolution through rose colored glasses. While uplifting portrayals of the event are flattering, they can also prove reductionist. In the authoritative words of Hossam el-Hamalawy himself, the notion of a spontaneous, youth-led uprising that brought democracy to Egypt via Facebook and Twitter is actually quite insulting. It diminishes the real struggle of the Egyptian people, to which there is no happy ending in sight.


http://mideastposts.com/2011/06/11/its-time-to-debunk-the-myths-of-the-egyptian-revolution/

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