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I have been giving this subject a lot of thought recently. And of course I have asked a lot of people, really pinned them down actually. This is not an anti-Egyptian rant. I like the people here, more so, as I get under the skin of them. And I do have Egyptian friends that I am very fond of. And they are very fond of me, but I wouldn't want my life to depend on it. We as foreigners, living here, or otherwise involved with Egyptians, all pretty much love the Egyptian people, don't we? Renowned for their friendliness, always eager to please, if you want to feel 'special', just step out onto the street. They even fall in love with us! Partly the thread 'On the Lam ..' got me thinking again; that young pretty handsome young man, and his 'blushing bride'. hmmmm. In the resorts, there are many of these guys, I'd think of them as genetic aberrations, except there's so many of them. I have heard middle-aged ladies telling me quite seriously that they believe the lack of an 'age gap problem' here, is amazing, but very real! They genuinely believe that their young boyfriend is going against every cultural,social, natural instinct, just because he's in love, really in love, for ever ... Someone remarked to me recently, 'No decent family would allow their son or daughter marry a foreigner'. ouch. Overwhelmingly these May/Sepember marriage deals are seen as simply a money making scam; and almost overwhelmingly, I have found that no Egyptian feels the slightest sympathy for the poor trusting women [and often men] who fall victim to their own romantic hopes. So .... to get to the heart of it, I asked people if they 'really' liked foreigners, generally. [The late government's attempt to blame its problems on 'foreigners' was pretty eagerly embraced in some circles, wasn't it?]
I was finally able to deduce, that under the 'Welcome to Egypt, enjoy your stay..' stuff, they actually don't like us very much at all I'm afraid. As Westerners we are considered promiscuous, naiive, spoilt ['Oversexed, Overpaid, and Over Here' basically.] We dump our old people in institutions, we allow our children to drink alcohol and have sex in their early teens, when they are not out robbing and killing strangers on the street, etc. All stereotypes, all based on watching too many movies on TV, but beneath the smiles, we really are perceived as immoral drunks who don't deserve our luxury lifestyles [??] Strangely, the better educated, better off, people I've met, were more willing to admit to this, and try to explain it. Even accepting that they are being unreasonable.'Just our culture I'm afraid.It's not just Westerners, we aren't crazy about Arabs, Africans etc. either.' Hhmphh. But I suspect this is a result of TV, and post 9/11 seige mentality.And a great deal of envy I suspect. Apparently, in the 'good old days', the many many foreigners here were really popular, regardless of politics. And sorry, they don't admire our natural openess and basic honesty, they either see it as a con trick, or just plain stupidity.
Am I alone in thinking this? Or just having a bad week?
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Mo Ning Min E: I was finally able to deduce, that under the 'Welcome to Egypt, enjoy your stay..' stuff, they actually don't like us very much at all I'm afraid. As Westerners we are considered promiscuous, naiive, spoilt ['Oversexed, Overpaid, and Over Here' basically.] We dump our old people in institutions, we allow our children to drink alcohol and have sex in their early teens, when they are not out robbing and killing strangers on the street, etc. All stereotypes, all based on watching too many movies on TV, but beneath the smiles, we really are perceived as immoral drunks who don't deserve our luxury lifestyles [??]
It's not just Western TV, it's also the fact that those misconceptions are being used, abused and consciously spread by many religious figures. Listen to a khutba, pick up an *Islamic* book or pamphlet, watch the preachers on the Saudi-sponsored TV channels, look closely at an Amr Khaled lecture … they are all using the "bad, immoral West" argument in one way or the other in order to make people believe that the lifestyle they are propagating is far better and morally superior.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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This is mostly true for mankind in general. Egyptians are however one of the most tolerant people, and I've traveled a lot. Much more tolerant than Europeans for example. White people are indeed deemed dirty by many Egyptians. TV/Movies are not culprit, but rather the actions of many white people in Egypt are the reason for this thinking. Egyptians share their experiences. One of my landlords there couldn't stop mentioning the White female foreigner who rented an apartment for $1500 and he kicked her out because she was constantly bringing in men to her apartment at all hours. A friend of mine was shocked after Fffing his Italian girlfriend she simple put on her pants (no washing). Another Italian lady gave the brother of my friend an STD. My maid told me she'll never work for a white man because they live like pigs. Don't forget Luxor, Hurghada, Sharm and the stories that come out of them. There are endless accounts, and again Egyptians spread the news around. Europeans have lived in Egypt for centuries, the bad reputation they're getting wasn't borne by movies.
As for disliking Arabs, well they mainly dislike Saudis, Kuwaitis and Bahrainis. And this is the result of the mistreatment that Egyptian expats receive in those countries. Egyptians like Lebanese, Moroccans, Jordanians, etc
As for Sub-Sahrans. Southern Sudanese prostitutes and Southern Sudanese men who work at a fraction of an Egyptian wage are a reason why Egyptians dislike them. Many ghettos in Cairo, have Sub-Saharan families that live in small slummy apartments with like 20 ppl inside. Egyptians don't harm them but they are deemed as a drain on society. There is also resentment as there are rumors that all of them receive monthly allocations from UNCHR.
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I can only talk about people I know and I feel really loved and welcome, maybe because I provide work for people.
The bad comments I have heard have been against individuals but never against Westerns as a whole.
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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I do remember reading an article - it must have been Al Ahram Weekly - about 3 years ago where a Hindu doctor from India had come to Egypt to do medical research in villages, and every time he and his Egyptian villager entourage passed a cow, they respectfully asked him if he wanted them to move away so he could worship it Wish I could find a link to it now.
Agree with Exiled that it's common over the globe. I mean look at the misconceptions and prejudices Brits have had of immigrants over the years - 'behaving like animals' 'at it like rabbits' 'living 100 to a room (often out of necessity!)' 'government handouts that should be going to our own' 'taking jobs from our people' (that 'our' people wouldn't even consider doing) etc etc.
I remember aging relatives coming out with things like 'XXX are dirty and filthy people, but that Mrs P keeps her house nice and was so kind to me when I had that fall' and those kind of things. By getting to know individuals perceptions can start to change.
Personally, I have Egyptian friends who I believe are genuine. Sometimes I have to gently disabuse them of some ideas about Brits gleaned from The Daily Mail!
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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If it's any consolation Europeans are deemed outstanding and professional in many parts of Asia. Companies even “rent White foreigners” in China - I kid you not. In South East Asia, Nigerians and Iranians can never catch a break. They are deemed drug smugglers and con artists. This is the result of a few bad apples that are caught scamming people and also the constant negative press from arrests for drug smuggling at airports.
That's life. Everybody is on some ****-list, somewhere.
Posts: 2275 | Registered: Dec 2009
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Yeah, back in the 1970s, in Britain it was popularly supposed that Brits were lazy good for nothings, but Germans were incredibly hard working. When I went to live/work in Germany in the 70s, they - in their own country - were just the same as the Brits - in their own country - in terms of actual work production ie 8 hours at work of which about 6 hours were spent moaning about how hard life was. I can honestly say that the Brits were the hardest workers of the lot in the place we were working.
Over the years I have formed the opinion that generally speaking (of course not all), immigrants are much harder working than the indigenous population. Often doing jobs that they wouldn't consider doing in their home country or working 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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Back to the original topic - do Egyptians like us?
Yes definitely. I never felt so welcomed anywhere else than in Egypt. Most of them are just plain friendly and down-to-earth. People who don't know you offer their help and even want to share their food with you. Seriously there is no way to have that kind of experience in Germany. No way!!!!!!!
Of course you need to be careful when it comes to offered help and friendship by Egyptians as some will use the trust you put into them to make business or start a relationship with you for their own gain. Egyptian men in particular can be such charmers so keep both eyes open as a woman, think rational and don't agree to anything what you wouldn't do back home. Otherwise everything else is allowed - but on your terms. Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: That's life. Everybody is on some ****-list, somewhere.
Couldn't agree more.
I was waiting for the Daily Mail to pop up. Kind of epitomises that particular mentality. Loved the fact that where I used to live everyone was bitching and whining about the Poles moving in and stealing all their jobs. I worked in immigration at the time and can certify that 80% were self-employed AND paid their taxes. We were never so fussy about taking those And those that were employed not only did the jobs the whiners didn't want to do, but did them to a much higher standard. I agree that immigrants are harder working than patriots, on the whole.
There are things we Brits have gotten wrong and I don't think all the criticism is without foundation. We all drift around moving from place to place without a blink and family ties do get severed in a way I don't think they do out there. I know I could pass a couple of my cousins in the street now and not know who they were. Anyone watch Heir Hunters? You get a good idea of how many poor old duffers end their days without a soul to turn to and some of them leave huuuuge extended families. On the flip side, we live with a huge amount of freedom and aren't nearly so constricted by "what uncle Bob would have to say about that". And I can imagine it would be a tremendous pain in the derriere if uncle Bob's word was law and he wasn't a reasonable kind of fella.
We have democracy and it's nothing to be sniffed at. Do you truly get that where there is elitism? Where you have families sticking together, pooling their assets and recruiting their own, the rich generally stay rich and the poor stay poor. Saying that though, look at Pakistanis here with their businesses. When one starts up they all chip in, wealth breeds wealth so before you know it, one business turns into ten. We may be missing a trick there but we tend to be more secular with our wealth and keep it within immediate family, even within couples. We don't want the interfering inlaws - heaven forbid - uncle Bob sticking his oar in.
Meh. One society is better in some ways, the other in others. One are like apples, one like oranges, but at the end of the day, we're all fruit Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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They love us enough to grope us and masterbate on the street in front of us! And they call us immoral.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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Cheeky, I have to tell you, I've seen a flasher here. Pulled over in some beat up old car when I was little, dirty old weirdo. Told my folks when I got home and they marched me off to the police station - which is definitely the way to go. If we are more open about this kind of thing, I see it as no bad thing.
Not so good trying to explain what he was doing in front of my parental guardian (my dad) though. Don't think they thought that one through...
Only ever saw one.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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Noone's ever done that to me in Egypt, they did plenty of times in the UK though
In coming here for 6 years and living here for 3.5 years I have had precisely one guy pat my butt - and that was in a 'classy' area - Zamalek.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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What did you do? I was soooooo mad I was looking around for something to put through his windscreen. Really, I was the shyest most polite little kid ever (in public, anyways), but it was just an outrage - main road in broad daylight. Just up the road from the police station!
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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Oh I haven't been groped here, just had the pleasure of watching perverts masterbating!!!
I have been groped and flashed at in the UK more than here, I was just making a point that they think we lack morals!
If I didn't think the people here in my life didn't like me and mean it I wouldn't have been coming here for 18 years. What the rest think doesn't bother me Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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I yelled at him. Later the same day I thought someone might have groped me on the microbus from under the seat, but now I have been on loads of microbuses, I realise it can't possibly have happened in the position I was in and I must have been sitting awkwardly on the toggle of my jacket or something.
I did have that incident with the police man (bossa bossa habiby) after I nearly drowned in a pit of quicksand by the pyramids - it's on here somewhere, about 3 years ago, but I can't be bothered to seek it out
All I can say is if you folk living in the UK have never seen flashers there, you must be living in a convent because I saw at least one a week on the trains or underground (metro) in London, in their posh suits with their flies open and their willies hanging out behind their newspapers hoping you would notice!
My mum was in a carriage (in South London) with a guy once in her smart suit and he got his wodger out, and she said in her most uppercrust voice "I think you should cover yourself up".
Another friend on the way home from work (in London) about 7pm one evening had a bloke come up close behind her and when she got home there was white stuff dripping all down her back. I don't need to tell you what it was.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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@ Cheeky I just think of my fella's family - his brother in law trying to speak English and just brimming with pride when we went to their home and his sister sitting there crocheting like crazy then giving me a cardie to take home on the very last day. And cooking - keep appearing with meal after meal - eat, eat. And his mum and his grandma - heck, even the guy with the driver who took us for this vanilla/potato starch milk drink (what is that? it was really nice) and trying to practice his English. It was a pretty damned good impression of not hating my guts if that really is the case.
I do remember being watched like a hawk when there was a serial on TV. It was Australian and on waltzed a woman with four kids by all different fathers. I gave the obligatory tut and shake of the head. It did strike me as some weird propaganda thing TBH. Is this really the norm in the native English speaking world?
@Shanta I've always lived in the sticks. Ew!!!! Did you ever point and laugh? I think as an adult that's the tack I'd be taking Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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@Monkey re kids by different fathers in the UK - I would say that is pretty common actually. Without overstretching my brain I can think of 5 or 6 that I personally know (and know I know if you get my drift! Maybe more that I don't know the kids are by different fathers).
Then again, my good friend who lived in Kuwait for years told me that because they marry young girls off to old guys who can't 'do' it, there's a thriving business in certain lingerie shops where the backs are fitted out with beds and young men from another Arabic country (which I won't name because everyone will attack me) provide the necessary services so who knows who the father is!
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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Yeah, I mean a woman with two or three or four kids by two different fathers isn't unusual. But four kids by four different fathers? This would be a little extreme, surely? I can't think of anyone I know at all. Not even on the soaps.
Except... maybe Carol Jackson?
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Yeah, I mean a woman with two or three or four kids by two different fathers isn't unusual. But four kids by four different fathers? This would be a little extreme, surely? I can't think of anyone I know at all.
Aint they referred as to 4x4 like cars lol;) Urika Johnson lol
Posts: 88 | From: Uk | Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: They love us enough to grope us and masterbate on the street in front of us! And they call us immoral.
OMG !
1 outside the Metro 1pm in the afternoon while I was with my Mum and a young girl from Palestine, once outside my apartment.. and I sawa dude in Spinneys by the fish counter having a fiddle in his galabeya!!!
I have seen young girls in clubs so drunk they are vomiting on themselves too... which is why I like to hear how they view us western girls when I get to witness this Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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@ LIAJ Really? I never knew that. I've known plenty of folks who've married 3 or 4 times but 3 and 4 tended to be when they were older.
Damn, I bet she's accumulated some serious bling over the years. Doubt any of them worked at Asda.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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Ihave never seen a flasher ! I have always been welcomed in Egypt. However this is what i have observed : 1. guys always try and stare you out, i never look away, the guy then hurries off lol. only to foreign women though
2. As we are foreigners, we are rich,so should pay more for the same thing as them
3. Taxi drivers face light up when they see foreigners - that taxi ride has just doubled lol
4.Women are so much morally better then us western whores - yet pot kettle black from what i have seen.
5. i have a tattoo that someone sd was harem !!
6. women can be extremely bitchy more so then english. overall egyptian women often view themselves as beautiful brincess lol
overall we r welcome as long as we spend money, leave their brinces alone lol
quote:Originally posted by Life is a journey: Ihave never seen a flasher ! I have always been welcomed in Egypt. However this is what i have observed : 1. guys always try and stare you out, i never look away, the guy then hurries off lol. only to foreign women though
2. As we are foreigners, we are rich,so should pay more for the same thing as them
3. Taxi drivers face light up when they see foreigners - that taxi ride has just doubled lol
4.Women are so much morally better then us western whores - yet pot kettle black from what i have seen.
5. i have a tattoo that someone sd was harem !!
6. women can be extremely bitchy more so then english. overall egyptian women often view themselves as beautiful brincess lol
overall we r welcome as long as we spend money, leave their brinces alone lol
Double taxi fares... triple yesterday!
Sure Egyptians are welcoming, most humans are but for them to try to gain moral high ground simply is purely laughable to me!
Liaj, if you want a tattoo while you are here there is a new parlour in Heliopolis... Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Life is a journey: 4.Women are so much morally better then us western whores - yet pot kettle black from what i have seen.
5. i have a tattoo that someone sd was harem !!
6. women can be extremely bitchy more so then english. overall egyptian women often view themselves as beautiful brincess lol
4. I get that only from young women who aren't married yet.
5. I feel the same way, I hate tatts
6. I find EU especially Brit women far bitchier than Egyptian women.
Lastly I don't get charged double because I don't pay for anything. WHen I am in Egypt my in-laws pay, even when I go into a store by myself and they know my in-laws they refuse payment and insist my in-laws will pay later.
As for stores that don't know my in-laws at all, the prices are marked and I pay that amount. I've seen the shop owner give a younger employee hell for not counting back my money. Even if they counted back in Arabic.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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Some of them aren't there with Egyptian hubbys though Metinoot. Or does every taxi driver in Egypt know your inlaws?
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Life is a journey: 4.Women are so much morally better then us western whores - yet pot kettle black from what i have seen.
5. i have a tattoo that someone sd was harem !!
6. women can be extremely bitchy more so then english. overall egyptian women often view themselves as beautiful brincess lol
4. I get that only from young women who aren't married yet.
5. I feel the same way, I hate tatts
6. I find EU especially Brit women far bitchier than Egyptian women.
Lastly I don't get charged double because I don't pay for anything. WHen I am in Egypt my in-laws pay, even when I go into a store by myself and they know my in-laws they refuse payment and insist my in-laws will pay later.
As for stores that don't know my in-laws at all, the prices are marked and I pay that amount. I've seen the shop owner give a younger employee hell for not counting back my money. Even if they counted back in Arabic.
When you say you dont pay for anything ? Nothing is free in life. What have you given up to get such honours ?? The only time i have seen things with a marked price is in supermarkets everything has can be discussed
What are your inlaws the mafia or something ? or just part of the old NDP ? LOL
Posts: 88 | From: Uk | Registered: Apr 2010
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Can't imagine not paying for anything. When you pick up things to take back for your family, surely you don't let his family pay then?
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Life is a journey: When you say you dont pay for anything ? Nothing is free in life. What have you given up to get such honours ?? The only time i have seen things with a marked price is in supermarkets everything has can be discussed
What are your inlaws the mafia or something ? or just part of the old NDP ? LOL
I didn't say it was free, I stated my in-laws pay for the things I buy.
I go to regular shops in which they might see a foreigner in their store a couple times a year, or a couple times a week. Prices are always marked.
I don't think Egypt has a mafia, part of the old NDP? Not really, mainly generals, majors in the military, a couple of parliment members, an Ambassador to China and the rest everyday civil servants normally manager types.
My father-in-law was a big man in education, and a several time Hajji. Therefore they know who I am because my father in-law calls ahead of time to the precinct sargent to tell them he's coming by a certain district to shop. Its unusual, but my father in-law doesn't need any scandals that other foreigners experience.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Can't imagine not paying for anything. When you pick up things to take back for your family, surely you don't let his family pay then?
Yeah all the time. But I pay Egyptian prices outside of tourism or resort areas.
You pay 200LE for a rug, I pay 40LE for the same rug. You buy in Sharm I buy in Alex Shatby or Cleopatra neighborhood.
Of course when I come to Egypt I have two huge suitcases with are filled to the brim with presents for them by request.
I normally carry 3 outfits and sparse hygeine products and buy more of what i need when I am there. The rest is presents.
My ex husband does pay for everything but my father in -law will pay for part of the ticket and my ex will pay for the other part. I've never paid for air fare even.
I will say this, when I am in town my brother in-law does excuse himself from his government job as a vacation. Very few employees of this job specification can get "vacation" time on such short notice.
And I always take coffee at the Officer's club to which retired patrons who hang out there ask about my vacation plans and look into where I am going to ensure I don't suffer any of the hassles you ladies do. Its out of respect for my in-laws. Most of the officers have parents who still work the farm land my in-laws own, and they do it out of respect and gratitude because their parents do get looked after even when they are too old to work. Though they do walk around and offer advice/oversee work done by the younger people. They are retired tenant farmers but still spend all day walking around helping plan the next season's crops. Its a beautiful way of life.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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I also can't do the things other foreign women do to cause scandals.
But then I don't party hardy in my American community here stateside so I don't have the need to get "wild" and chasy boys in Egypt either.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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So you bring two huge suitcases and a long list of requests from your family and your ex picks up the tab? And this is something to shout about?
When you arrive, do you give the ex's family presents paid for by your family?
I'm missing a trick here.
No trick.
My family doesn't have any requests for items from Egypt. My in-laws do suggest I buy something that my family back in Minnesota would appreciate as a gift. Normally large beach towels.
My ex husband pays for the gifts (I do too when I have extra money and I know my ex doesn't want to pay for an item) I carefully pack them and weigh the luggage. The airline check in persons normally wave an extra 5-10 lbs, they are quiet about it and do ask if most of the items are gifts.
when I am there in Egypt I do have a nominal list of things I need to pick up for me or for my ex-husband. When I can't find certain items, my mother in-law will either get them herself or bring me with.
Its pretty much whatever I want. And we have had a great track record of acquiring the items they want me to bring.
I've only spent one night in a hotel, never been to a resort and we cram in possibly 5-15 tourist attractions while I am there. And Egyptian only transportion, no guided tours.
But I do the obligatory family visits in the village. WHich is pretty awesome because the villas are so cool (temp) compared to the flats in Alex and Cairo.
What bothers me most is I am not encouraged to do any cleaning or cooking. but I will run an errand when my mother in-law runs out of something, I do get escourted by a little neice or my daughter.
Arabs have a custom of hospitality in which "travelers" aren't supposed to pick up the tab.
Middle ages in Cairo there were "taverns" in which Imams organized so caravan travelers or pilgrims would stay for a nominal donation and food was often provided. The travelers/pilgrims were often informed of local laws, customs and how they were expected to behave.
Nowdays tourist pay their way entirely, but also behave how they want.
There is a clear distinction between modern vacationers and travelers/pilgrims.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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Oh Sono, you try so hard to sound elite but I flew back and forward for years without paying for flights... but I didn't have to sponge off a dude or his family for the honour
Also, after 20 years in the ME none of the above is hassle, it is merely life. Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Oh Sono, you try so hard to sound elite but I flew back and forward for years without paying for flights... but I didn't have to sponge off a dude or his family for the honour
Also, after 20 years in the ME none of the above is hassle, it is merely life.
If that works for you fine. But you aren't/weren't married to an Egyptian nor did you have his child. To my former in-laws I am still married to their son until I remarry.
You get to go bar-hopping, behave as you like, openly casually date according to western mores; and I gave that up.
When I am in Egypt I am expected to follow the similar expectations that my sister-in-laws follow. And it isn't that restrictive.
I just can't talk to men I don't know, or men my in-laws don't know. Still older men (over 45 years) do tear into my sister and brother in-laws and tell them to be more progressive. If an older man wants to give suggestions and say hello and welcome it isn't going to cause a scandal.
My younger-in-laws do get tense about this, and the young girls normally tell a young guy off pretty quickly. Its cute.
When in rome do as the romans do. Its Egypt, I live by their rules, and its not that restrictive.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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I don't know, if it were me buying gifts I'd want to be paying for them otherwise is it even from you? Maybe it's me. I'm weird like that. But I don't like people buying things for me. I mean, take me for a meal, nice, buy me a present, fine. But if I go to a shop and I hear "I'll get that" suddenly I don't want it anymore. And I won't want anything else either, which kind of means the shopping trip is at an end.
Dunno. I can't imagine being much different if I was married. I know I'd spend a damned sight less on frivolous stuff from any joint account because I'd just feel bad spending money that wasn't mine. And I like frivolous stuff
Unless I was a housewife - that would be fair dues. No... maybe even then? I dunno.
I think this conversation has been had before but I do think American women have a different take on the whole being provided for thing than Brits. It's alright to some extent but I actually like having my own money and not having to wait for an offer, or worse still, ask. I think I'd hate it. Isn't a bit like a little woman thing?
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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Know what you mean Monkey, when someone says "You only have to ask." What it really means is 'you always have to ask'. Makes me cringe thinking about it. I've got an old friend here [and I MEAN old!] nice old guy, bit old school, and if I run into him in the supermarket he tries to buy my groceries for God's sake. Actually, he reminds me of Metinoot's mob.Witters on about his military nonsense waaay back, and gets called 'Bey' by his flunkies. haha. given up the idea of finding a rich old man, I'd feel like a pet budgie.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I don't know, if it were me buying gifts I'd want to be paying for them otherwise is it even from you? Maybe it's me. I'm weird like that. But I don't like people buying me things. I mean, take me for a meal, nice, buy me a present, fine. But if I go to a shop and I hear "I'll get that" suddenly I don't want it anymore. And I won't want anything else either, which kind of means the shopping trip is at an end.
Dunno. I can't imagine being much different if I was married. I know I'd spend a damned sight less on frivolous stuff from any joint account because I'd just feel bad spending money that wasn't mine. And I like frivolous stuff
Unless I was a housewife - that would be fair dues. No... maybe even then? I dunno.
I think this conversation has been had before but I do think American women have a different take on the whole being provided for thing than Brits. It's alright to some extent but I actually like having my own money and not having to wait for an offer, or worse still, ask. I think I'd hate it.
Oh boy the Anti-Americanism again.
If I was a Brit, an European, an Asian, a Ruski, a Brazilian it would be the same. WHen in Egypt they pay. And I behave by Egyptian mores.
I am not discussing the finances between my ex and I when we were married because 1. its in the past, 2. its private, 3. its a culture class from hell.
What I do know is my sister-in-laws financial agreement between them and their husbands is none of my f*cking businesses and I have never asked.
My sister-in-laws do pay their way even when their hubbies are with, only one of them will bust his seams and go beserk if he isn't given the option to pay.
Its because I am a visitor, not because I am a woman.
If I lived there it would be a different story all together. But I have been told if I would go out in public with my father-in-law he'd always pay, but with my mother-in-law and I was living there I'd probably pay more often than not.
Not everything is a gender war, and American ways of money negiotiation aren't always the best.
Again: Its because I am a visitor, not because I am a woman. Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Mo Ning Min E: Know what you mean Monkey, when someone says "You only have to ask." What it really means is 'you always have to ask'. Makes me cringe thinking about it. I've got an old friend here [and I MEAN old!] nice old guy, bit old school, and if I run into him in the supermarket he tries to buy my groceries for God's sake. Actually, he reminds me of Metinoot's mob.Witters on about his military nonsense waaay back, and gets called 'Bey' by his flunkies. haha. given up the idea of finding a rich old man, I'd feel like a pet budgie.
There is a huge wide vast gray area between meeting an Egyptian guy who works in tourism while you are vacation versus meeting an Egyptian guy in the west who comes from a family in which have centuries of stature and means.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Yeah, it does sound like they only ever treated you like a tourist.
No I was treated like a visitor, not a modern tourist.
This is one of the oldest arguments on ES.
Western women in equitable relationships vs. holiday romances and intolerant expats.
If you gals are going to open up a thread in which you expect Egyptians to be tolerant of westerners behaving badly in Egypt and not to be gouged financially then expect someone to disagree with you.
You can't have your cake and eat it too, without repurcusions.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: They love us enough to grope us and masterbate on the street in front of us! And they call us immoral.
OMG !
1 outside the Metro 1pm in the afternoon while I was with my Mum and a young girl from Palestine, once outside my apartment.. and I sawa dude in Spinneys by the fish counter having a fiddle in his galabeya!!!
I have seen young girls in clubs so drunk they are vomiting on themselves too... which is why I like to hear how they view us western girls when I get to witness this
do u think the guy in the galabeya cld have just been adjusting his bits nd pieces;) pmsl thank goodness he werent in fresh food sec
Posts: 88 | From: Uk | Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Monkey: this vanilla/potato starch milk drink (what is that? it was really nice)
Sahlab / سحلب. It's like liquid pudding.
It's lush - love it - especially in cold weather You can buy bags of the powder in the shop to make up but being me, I nibble all the nuts and bits that are supposed to go on the top in one go.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mo Ning Min E: I've got an old friend here [and I MEAN old!] nice old guy, bit old school, and if I run into him in the supermarket he tries to buy my groceries for God's sake.
Is it an Egyptian hospitality thing then or "me man, you woman" or a bit of both?
I don't get it.
Nothing anti American or wot not Metinoot. When my parents go out to get groceries or stuff for the house or out for a meal or whatever, my dad always pays at the counter. But if my mum fancies a new frock or new shoes or what have you and he always paid for those too then why would my mum ever need money? Why would she need a purse? That's a scary thought to me.
I can get my head around footing the bill for food, drink, the odd this or that for visitors, but, I don't know, shoes and what not, that would be beyond embarrassing for me.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Mo Ning Min E: I've got an old friend here [and I MEAN old!] nice old guy, bit old school, and if I run into him in the supermarket he tries to buy my groceries for God's sake.
Is it an Egyptian hospitality thing then or "me man, you woman" or a bit of both?
I don't get it.
Nothing anti American or wot not Metinoot. When my parents go out to get groceries or stuff for the house or out for a meal or whatever, my dad always pays at the counter. But if my mum fancies a new frock or new shoes or what have you and he always paid for those too then why would my mum ever need money? Why would she need a purse? That's a scary thought to me.
I can get my head around footing the bill for food, drink, the odd this or that for visitors, but, I don't know, shoes and what not, that would be beyond embarrassing for me.
Again how your parents do things in the UK doesn't reflect how my in-laws manage my vacation as a "guest" or "visitor" in Egypt.
Both your parents are british/english in the UK.
Difference scenerios completely.
And if you can't handle a situation like mine marry a egy-guy who works in tourism, has relatives who need to borrow money all the time.
Save you tons of embarrassment. Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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Can I pick your brains? I have laid my hands on a copy of Rosetta Stone Arabic. I got so far with Michele Thomas but he's getting on my wick. Anyway, I've been reading Rosetta Stone is what do you call it? Modern Arabic rather than Egyptian Arabic. Is it a waste of time? I quite like the way they teach it so if it's a no go it would be a shame. Plus Michele Thomas doesn't teach you written Arabic. But no point learning it if it's a no go. What do you think?
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
I live in a country where women are quite frankly considered second class citizens, virtually sold off into marriage by their families in the name of 'security', many are beaten, by fathers, brothers, husbands, they have to ask permission to leave the house, are treated like possessions .... and on and on and on .... And they are complicit in this. And we Westerners are behaving badly??? And btw, it's not anti American to suggest that American women have less of a problem letting others pay for everything, it's true. It's a cultural difference, and I've noticed on here that when there is a discussion about holiday romances, and 'who pays for what' it is invariably Americans who remark 'if he doesn't pay for everything I'd be out of there.' I don't think Europeans think quite the same way, we can buy a guy a coffee without feeling slighted I think. If egyptian guys start feeling insecure about this, well maybe they'd better stay away from foreigners. It's not a criticism, just culture stuff.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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that it's common over the globe. I mean look at the misconceptions and prejudices Brits have had of immigrants over the years - 'behaving like animals' 'at it like rabbits' 'living 100 to a room (often out of necessity!)' 'government handouts that should be going to our own' 'taking jobs from our people' (that 'our' people wouldn't even consider doing) etc etc. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Europeans are deemed outstanding and professional in many parts of Asia. Companies even “rent White foreigners” in China - I kid you not. In South East Asia, Nigerians and Iranians can never catch a break. They are deemed drug smugglers and con artists. This is the result of a few bad apples that are caught scamming people and also the constant negative press from arrests for drug smuggling at airports. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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