Statements:
1. Egyptians are prohibited from marrying women who are not "of the book" ... meaning neither Islamic, Christian, or Jew.
2. There are rare times when Egyptian women will go to the ancient temples to pray and plead for fertility. Although they will name the ancient goddess of the temple at the time, All is Allah thereafter.

Apparantly all is not actually Allah however, when it comes to more unorthodox faiths, and I wonder how people of different religions fare when travelling through Egypt.

What would happen if a tourist openly stated that they were Hindu, Dao, Buddist or one of the many other religions in this world?

I have tried to memorize "Ana mitgawiza" (I am married) and similar phrases in preparation for the promised onslaught of interest that a lady alone might generate. It seemed that saying "I'm not of the book" could work even better! Unless this would result in a mob lynching or a stoning or something ... would it?

Relatedly, certainly some tourists wish to pay special respects at some of the ancient temples. (There are several online Kemetic temples in U.S.A. alone!) How do Egyptians view these foreigners?

quote:

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Originally posted by Luxorlover:
No Jutta. Buddhism has no god. It is a none-theistic philosophy which is why it does not classify as a religion. Buddhists are not Idolators they are unbelievers.

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Hi Luxorlover,

I am not too deeply envolved with Bhuddism, but the things I still know from school are, that Bhuddism in fact is not so far away from the „book“-religions as we think. Maybe one of the other members can help here. But that’s why I never understood, that Bhuddism is damned by Islam.

For example, they believe in the one and only “Brahma” (=god or deva as they call it)

They believe in “Pretas and Narakas” who are similar to our dschinns.

Their “gandharvas and asuras” are similar to the arcangles and angles of bible and qu’ran

And “yama” is the devil.

And the live of “Bhudda” is like the one of our prophets: first a complete human being like Jesus for example, then he was “enlighted” which made him a supreme teacher (prophet) and after his death his soul went to the paradise.
Their believing of the world is in fact a little different:
The world extends around Mount Meru. Above the peak is the realm of the Buddha fields (or heavens). Animals and humans live on the plains around the mountain. ghosts and dschinns live on or just below the surface. And hell is deep under the earth.
TThe Buddha was a human being. As a man He was born, as a man He lived, and as a man His life came to an end. Though a human being. He became an extraordinary man (Acchariya Manussa), but He never arrogated to Himself divinity. The Buddha laid stress on this important point and left no room whatever for anyone to fall into the error of thinking that He was an immortal divine being. Fortunately there is no deification in the case of the Buddha.he Buddha was a human being. As a man He was born, as a man He lived, and as a man His life came to an end. Though a human being. He became an extraordinary man (Acchariya Manussa), but He never arrogated to Himself divinity. The Buddha laid stress on this important point and left no room whatever for anyone to fall into the error of thinking that He was an immortal divine being. Fortunately there is no deification in the case of the Buddha.

2. Christians still celebrate Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny and teach their children to believe in their existence, to a certain age.

3. The kind of men who will try to pick you up are interested in many things, but what your religion is..will not be one of them.

Being a jew or expressing your support for Israel will make you unpopular..but that is more political than religious when you get down to it.

Other than that, Egyptians might be curious about other faiths, but as a tourist visiting...the subject will probably not even come up. Many egyptians aren't familiar with non-book religions (well, at least I haven't run across that many)...so they'll probably take the opportunity to learn from you.

I always wonder why do people find it necessary to justify their actions in terms of visiting temples or other or even discuss their personal beliefs with strangers as a tourist for example??
I think that as a tourist you are passing by...so you don't owe anybody any explanations...

Unless you reside in a community and start socializing with all the curious neighbours I don't see that it is of anybody's business what your religious beliefs are...in Egypt or elsewhere...

What do you think?

quote:

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Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
sorry, but buddhism isn't classified as a religion. pick up any book on the subject. even the dalai lama of tibet says his religion is "kindness" and he doesn't believe in a god, as defined by religion.

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I know the books of him quite well that's why I always wondering about this religion subject. The priest in bhuddism are called brahmani, which comes from the above mentioned "Brahma" which is indeed their god as you can read on any website about bhuddism. What he means is the philosophy behind buddism which is kindness and tolerance about everyone and everything.
In any book about bhuddism you'll find the topics about "divinity" in every human being. Maybe that's why it is misunderstood as non-regligion and "god-less" ??

Being spiritual is not the same as religious. There may be a shared definition of "spirit" or "god" in everything and everyone, but religions define god with a capital "G". It is something holy.

In budhism, there is no "holy" equivalent - anyone can become a budha. some believe it's all within us, and budhism is simply the way to uncover it.

I agree that a tourist on a package tour would have no need to concern themselves with questions of religion - **unless** they used the "Go Away - I'm Not Of The Book" line to shut down agressive men.

It's been suggested that -
1. Some would take the opportunity to learn about a strange faith;
2. The types of men involved wouldn't care about faith, so the line wouldn't work;
3. The reaction might change based on whether the person was seen as "godless" vrs "idolatrous". (Inferred, not stated.)
4. Things would depend on whether one is a tourist or whether one is living in the community.

The sufi Mouleds in Tanta and Luxor are surviors of the past. One is dedicated to Bastet and the other to Amun in the form of the Opet festival.

It brings up ALOT of new questions, though.
So, I'll begin with just one. Er, two.

You kinda mention that this is very "rural".

Though all my reading and research, it sounds as though this is the general demographic that would be least likely to allow a western female with almost
no Arabic language skills to witness or participate in. Cause I'd be breaking all social mores simply by being ... me, I guess.
(There is a question in there ...)

The Opet Festival is private?

[This message has been edited by cassia (edited 22 June 2004).]

(I was once invited to drum with Native Indians at one of their ceremonies. They assumed I already knew how to drum. But I had come from an African drumming background. So I began to find complimentary patterns. Imagine my horror when a really angry Elder informed me that I was trying to give Mother Earth a heart attack!!! The point is that the intent of the drumming (to simultaneously drum a single pattern representing the life force/heart beat of the earth) was obvious common knowledge to the Natives. It didn’t even occur to them that new people wouldn’t know.)

So, again, how does one properly participate in a manner that won't inevitably piss off everyone else? Please remember that my intent is not to be perceived as an idiot tourist.

For example, if a family was travelling to their family tomb one day, and found strangers already there having a picnic and basically honouring that family's ancestors, what would happen?

Opet as such was taken over by the Abu Al Haggag Moulid as it enabled people to elebrate it without having to upset things concerning their religion/s. (Abu el Haggag brought Islam to the area).) Luxor temple - which was the place where the original Opet ceremony took place after the statues of Amun etc were transported from karnak - has a mosque in the middle of it. Opet would normally be around the second month of the flood - July/ish. The Adu el Haggag Moulid is tied to Ramadan so its timing moves slightly each year. There are some who still follow the Opet timing but it is a bit pointless as there is no flooding now. (Having said that, there was a huge flood just a few years ago that destroyed most of the mud brick houses in Upper Egypt).

At present the moulid is like a carnival. There are floats, dressed up camels and thousands of people taking part. It is a wonderul atmosphere. People come from all the villages on both sides of the Nile. The town is full of horses and donkeys with their riders showing off and everyone is in party mood for three days.

Amun's place in it all is that this was a fertility thing. He was taken from Karnak and transported down the river (originally he was caried along the avenue of sphinxes that join the two temples) to honeymoon with his wife Mut. (I leave the rest to your imagination as nobody knows exactly what rituals this involved). It was a signal for a surfeit of licensciousness among the population though. There is speculation that the Pharoah (as a god) would have been expected to masturbate into the river during Opet to add his fertility to it.

The tombs where the families visit their dead or not like the old tombs, although they are closed chambers, they look more like a conventional graves. (I have one lined with brick waiting for when I pop my clogs). They families are not there every FRiday, only twice a year at certain festivals and if something like a birthday of one of them , or the anniversary of a sudden death has come up. You would be greeted with a smile and offered an orange to eat. No, you would not have to wear black you in a cemetary, you would be expected to have dressed respectfully.

Djinns are believed in totally. They are the unseen. They are not worshipped but they are recognised. There is a very strong belief also in what in Europe would be classes as witchcraft - evil eye etc. Some djinnes are good, some are bad. You can get a 'spell' (not sure what you would call it) from the local sheikh to stop yourself urinating on one by accident. (Honest Ausar).

There is a wonderful Opet temple that was built in the Greco/Roman period (invaders at that time just accepted local religions and added them to their own) at the far side of Karnak Temple next to the one erected to Khonsu. (Hathor looks down from the top of the columns). It is locked but the guard will let really interested people inside for a short time. (There are big holes in the floor into an underground crypt so you have to be sure footed).

I have spent hours 'talking' to Osiris in the courtyard built by Ramses III at Karnak. (it is one of my favourite places) and again in the small shrines at the back of the Medinet Habu. Amun is everywhere. Take your pick as to whom you choose to honour with your attention. I have left him flowers (roses) and always stroke Orisis's foot when I pass.

The best place to look over the area is from the top of the mountain or the cliff that overlooks the Dier el Medina. I like the Dier el Medina best because from above you can see into the temple to Hathor below (Greco). Which by the way has the best coloured paitings in the whole of Luxor.

I may have got some of the things wrong here (Ausar will put it right) but the main thing is to see it with someone who loves it. Not just a guide who spouts. It makes a world of difference.

Opet is something that I have an interest in because one of the books that I am writing at the moment (fiction) starts there precisely in 30BC. (When Cleopatra died and a year after the earthquake destroyed half of Luxor's monuments). I spent weeks researching it. There is also a wall in Luxor temple relating to the Opet procession (not the behind closed doors rituals. )

Sorry if I have rambled. You just asked so many questions.

Let me know when you intend to be there. If I am in Luxor at the same time I shall take you about willingly. It will be a pleasure.

In the six years I have lived there I have never tired of any of it, not for one minute and I have visited most of the temples uncountable times. Each time I look for something new - each time I find something that astounds me. Recently I have been studying the reliefs at the Medinet Habu - there are quite a few relating to the Opet ceremony there.

Liza

I won't be coming to Egypt until I sell my business, and I don't know when that's going to happen. When it does, I have a 3 - 6 mth itinerary all lined up, though!

Until now, the "when" in terms of seasons has been predicated strictly on the fact that airfare is cheapest in late Feb. & March, for some reasons. Which is fine by me, because as one who has never seen a desert, I really want to experience the Sirroco! Plus, the coldest night in Egypt is still warmer than our 12 degrees celsius here last night!

Only idiots like me (or tourists) would actually sit and talk to the old chap Osiris. I've been known to talk to his wife (Isis) too and on bad days I could be accused of nattering to his brother !!!

So Abu Al Haggag Moulid is to Opet
as Christmas is to Yule.

What's up with the oranges?

In what context were the colours mentioned? In connection with the dead in Egypt - shrouds are white - gallayias (for women) are black but the do not go to funerals they stay at home and wail. Men wear what they what they want to. Brides in Egypt wear white powder puff dresses and red dresses the following day. (In India white is a colour of mourning).

But when I asked what "karineh/karina" directly translate to, and what the assorted colours are and what they mean, there was no reply.

I know that 'afrit' is a ghost. But I do not know the difference between an 'afrit' and a 'sonna'. Is there is one? Are boths afrits and sonnas scary?. Can anyone enlighten me here? Monica, Ausar, where are you?