posted
I want to have contact with whomen with experience with orfi-wedding in Egypt. The wedding made at a lawyers office.
Posts: 84 | From: Norway, Trondheim | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Orfi is not a wedding... its just signing a bit of paper from a lawyer.... don't get carried away with the word "wedding!!"
Posts: 4238 | From: USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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orfi marriage=a piece of paper intended to give the male a guilt-free access to Egyptian hotel rooms in order to fornicate. Usually conducted by married men, religious men with the wrong understand of their religion, or simply men who have no access to a place to fornicate and are cowardly enough to sneak into their girlfriend's room at an Egyptian hotel.
Posts: 2049 | From: Canada | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Ann-Lill: I want to have contact with whomen with experience with orfi-wedding in Egypt. The wedding made at a lawyers office.
I had one of these marriages.. that are not really marriages at all. Sorry but this is a simple piece of paper that makes it possible to have sex, nothing more, i didnt know this until months after i entered into it. I was told it was a real marriage and enlightened to the fact it was not legal or recognized by religion by one of my egyptian friends.
Posts: 2410 | From: Indiana, USA | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Orfi is real marriage..just it should be by a lawyer and should be 3 kopies..one copie should be regesterd..so it has less rights of normal marriage but it gives rights to each one of two partners..take care
Posts: 29 | From: Egypt | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Hi I had an orfi marriage. It was basically just as everyone said . But it was his way of making a type of formal contract between us. It makes life easier when walking down the street and getting hassle from police every 5 minutes. We are now married, here in the UK with UK ceremony. We are both living here in the UK with both our orfi and our UK certificates. My orfi means just as much if not more to me as my UK one. I still treasure my copy. Sorry but this is just my opinion. Posts: 57 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I was offered orfi-wedding from my egyptian boyfriend. I did not like this, because I want everything to be done correct. He say he want children and I do not want children before marrie in a leagal way. I told him this, and now he never answer my sms, calls or request from my friends in his area.
So this was it.
I now know about the Egyptian men and their thinking about western whomen. I never trust an Egyptian man again who ask for marrie in a hurry.
I think he was just in it for fun and to try to squeese mony out of me.
-------------------- everything is possible! Posts: 84 | From: Norway, Trondheim | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
my orfi had the 3 copies but it was never registered. the lawyer wanted us to take the copy to cairo ourselves but again i didnt understand that it was an orfi at the time or i would have never agreed, all that is needed to get out of this is to tear up the paper and that is not a real marriage to me. Its not recognized by government, family or religion, only by the police..in fact most families look down on this very much.
quote:Originally posted by mysticheart: my orfi had the 3 copies but it was never registered. the lawyer wanted us to take the copy to cairo ourselves but again i didnt understand that it was an orfi at the time or i would have never agreed, all that is needed to get out of this is to tear up the paper and that is not a real marriage to me. Its not recognized by government, family or religion, only by the police..in fact most families look down on this very much.
You are 100% right....its not only family but everyone that looks down on orfi "marriages", some egyptians go as far as to say it is for prostitutes....yep thats what I heard Posts: 723 | From: South Africa | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ann-Lill: So this was it.
I now know about the Egyptian men and their thinking about western whomen. I never trust an Egyptian man again who ask for marrie in a hurry.
I think he was just in it for fun and to try to squeese mony out of me.
/////////////////
Sorry to hear about that. However, That can happen as well in USA- I am Western as well..
Just be selective with the next person who u meet and not let anyone Rush u into anything so fast,.. All things come within Time.
Best to you in ur future..
J.
You are 1000% right....whatever happens in Egypt can happen anywhere else in the world:)
Posts: 723 | From: South Africa | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
How much is the fee to process an orfi certificate?Do you have to keep renewing it? I mean is this some kind of revenue raiser for local magistrates /pilice or what? Or is totally free or something?
Posts: 872 | From: Sydney | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
LOL - there is NOTHING free in Egypt. Even you are expected to pay to use the restroom!
quote:Originally posted by Melati: How much is the fee to process an orfi certificate?Do you have to keep renewing it? I mean is this some kind of revenue raiser for local magistrates /pilice or what? Or is totally free or something?
posted
So its the magistrates who benefit too? Like a little scratch my back Ill scratch your arrangement..now I understand. Posts: 872 | From: Sydney | Registered: Nov 2005
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Orfi marriages don't get as far as the judges...its just a document drawn up in a lawyers office that can be done even without the bride, just a copy of her passport. If it goes to the court it becomes a fully registered Egyptian civil marriage, with all that entails.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Snapdragon: LOL - there is NOTHING free in Egypt. Even you are expected to pay to use the restroom!
I guess that depends on your relationship with Egyptians...I have never been treated with so much generosity anywhere in the world...can you imagine anybody getting free medical treament or workmen doing jobs for free in the US????
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
Thanks. I never quite got what they were exactly-they seem to be a common practise though. What does the name mean-like in English translation, or is it just a word untranslatable?
Posts: 872 | From: Sydney | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
It translates roughly as a "customary" marriage, and basically its a document that is accepted in some places in Egypt as legitimization for a couple to be together, either travelling or living/staying together. It is used by people who don't want to make a full legal commitment to a proper marriage, but want to be together. It seems to be most commonly used between Egyptian men and foreign tourists and also Egyptian students/young people, but it has no legal protection in terms of rights and responsibilities per se and is looked down upon by most Egyptians.
Some say that it is Islamic and accepted by Islamic law if not the law of the land, but it usually doesn't fulfill most of the conditions to make it so.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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Orfi marriages don't get as far as the judges...its just a document drawn up in a lawyers office that can be done even without the bride, just a copy of her passport. If it goes to the court it becomes a fully registered Egyptian civil marriage, with all that entails.
Orfi marriages don't get as far as the judges...its just a document drawn up in a lawyers office that can be done even without the bride, just a copy of her passport.
So if the bride is not present, who forges the document on her behalf? Sorry, you're wrong on this one.
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: Hi Melati!
If it goes to the court it becomes a fully registered Egyptian civil marriage, with all that entails.
Again, this is not correct. Yes, it can be registered in the Court, but this does not accord it with the rights of an Egyptian civil marriage as you say.
Please check your facts before you start advising others.
Posts: 41 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: It translates roughly as a "customary" marriage, and basically its a document that is accepted in some places in Egypt as legitimization for a couple to be together, either travelling or living/staying together. It is used by people who don't want to make a full legal commitment to a proper marriage, but want to be together. It seems to be most commonly used between Egyptian men and foreign tourists and also Egyptian students/young people, but it has no legal protection in terms of rights and responsibilities per se and is looked down upon by most Egyptians.
Some say that it is Islamic and accepted by Islamic law if not the law of the land, but it usually doesn't fulfill most of the conditions to make it so.
Did you get this stuff from a website?
Posts: 41 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
My first egy marriage was on the green paper with lots of signatures and court stamps. Probably did not give much marriage rights (not that i cared...) but the divorce would have to be granted in the court.
Posts: 2238 | From: Mother Earth | Registered: Jun 2004
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Orfi marriages don't get as far as the judges...its just a document drawn up in a lawyers office that can be done even without the bride, just a copy of her passport.
So if the bride is not present, who forges the document on her behalf? Sorry, you're wrong on this one.
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: Hi Melati!
If it goes to the court it becomes a fully registered Egyptian civil marriage, with all that entails.
Again, this is not correct. Yes, it can be registered in the Court, but this does not accord it with the rights of an Egyptian civil marriage as you say.
Please check your facts before you start advising others.
Hi harem girl!
Thanks for your comments, but I only said what I did because I am sure of my information.
Not quite sure what you mean by "forges the document on her behalf," but as you know a bride in Egypt doesn't have to be present at the signing of her marriage contract, it is done by her wali (guardian). And so a copy of her passport can be present as evidence of her authorization of her wali to make the contract on her behalf.
And I have a friend whose Orfi contract was registered in the courts and she has gained all the rights and privileges of a wife under civil law in Egypt, including citizenship. I was also advised of this by a reputable lawyer.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by harem girl: [qb]Did you get this stuff from a website?
Do you mean did I cut and paste it? The answer is no. If I had I would have given a link to show where I had taken it from...why do you ask?
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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Orfi marriages don't get as far as the judges...its just a document drawn up in a lawyers office that can be done even without the bride, just a copy of her passport.
So if the bride is not present, who forges the document on her behalf? Sorry, you're wrong on this one.
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: Hi Melati!
If it goes to the court it becomes a fully registered Egyptian civil marriage, with all that entails.
Again, this is not correct. Yes, it can be registered in the Court, but this does not accord it with the rights of an Egyptian civil marriage as you say.
Please check your facts before you start advising others.
Hi harem girl!
Thanks for your comments, but I only said what I did because I am sure of my information.
Not quite sure what you mean by "forges the document on her behalf," but as you know a bride in Egypt doesn't have to be present at the signing of her marriage contract, it is done by her wali (guardian). And so a copy of her passport can be present as evidence of her authorization of her wali to make the contract on her behalf.
And I have a friend whose Orfi contract was registered in the courts and she has gained all the rights and privileges of a wife under civil law in Egypt, including citizenship. I was also advised of this by a reputable lawyer.
Yes, of course I am well aware that under a normal civil marriage the bride does not have to be present as her wali can attend in her place - although this is rare.
However the topic under discussion is orfi marriage - which is not the same thing - and under which the bride does definitely does not require a guardian.
You implied earlier that this type of marriage is only really used between egyptian men and foreign women, between students etc which is a common perception. Many other people will also tell you it is often a 'secret' marriage - so think about it logically - if this is the case, then what bride is going to send her guardian? How many foreign women who come here and marry an Egyptian man have a guardian, or will have one who is not a friend of their soon to be husband? (Maybe these girls are stupid, but not stupid enough to dish out their passports unaccompanied for the day or however long it takes - to a virtual stranger. If this is truth, I guarantee the paper which is returned to her will not even come from a lawyer!) Similarly, is an 18 year old college student going to send a 'guardian' on her behalf to marry her boyfriend and risk her parents finding out?
I am aware that an orfi marriage registered in the court entitles the 'wife' to a visa and some rights, but not all.
Posts: 41 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Thanks for your response, harem girl, and some clarification of your reaction to my posting. I think if you actually read what I wrote, I didn’t say that all orfi marriages were done without the bride, just that it can be done that way. Maybe I was confusing you by mentioning a wali...I only mentioned it to illustrate the fact that Egyptian law allows women to be married without them being physically present, and a ‘wali’ for an orfi marriage, doesn’t have to be an Islamically approved one, and you illustrated some of the reasons why that would be unlikely to be the case anyway. However, the fact that she can be absent does open the door for anyone one to perform draw up the contract on her behalf. In fact we had one member here who was married to her orfi husband while she was in her home country and had given her man a copy of her passport to draw up the contract before she arrived for her holiday. She was not giving her passport to a “total stranger”, but the man she wanted to have an orfi marriage with!
As to implying “that this type of marriage is only really used between egyptian men and foreign women, between students etc” if you check back you will see that what I actually said was: “It seems to be most commonly used between Egyptian men and foreign tourists and also Egyptian students/young people.” I know other people do have orfi marriages, but I was just giving those examples as an illustration.
I didn’t say that a registered orfi marriage entitles the woman to a visa; I said citizenship, i.e. an Egyptian passport, which is a permanent legal status that women who are married to Egyptian citizens are entitled to. If I have been mistakenly informed, as you seem to be implying, about the status of a court registered orfi marriage and the rights that it affords the wife and it is not equivalent to a civil marriage, please, by all means, let me know which rights they are not entitled to. If you can give me some supporting evidence that would be useful.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
The more I read all of these posts the more I say alhamdullilah ... very scary and sad situations.
Posts: 1074 | From: Menufia, Egypt | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Bla..bla..bla.. girls… why do you all… so smart and experienced just f’’’’ switch off your minds? Orfi means non stable, something u do not trust. Your habib knows that u knows! but still offers u this. This is the time to sand him for 7 seas! anywhere he are from Egypt…America…Russia…
Posts: 19 | From: Sharm | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: Thanks for your response, harem girl, and some clarification of your reaction to my posting. I think if you actually read what I wrote, I didn’t say that all orfi marriages were done without the bride, just that it can be done that way. Maybe I was confusing you by mentioning a wali...I only mentioned it to illustrate the fact that Egyptian law allows women to be married without them being physically present, and a ‘wali’ for an orfi marriage, doesn’t have to be an Islamically approved one, and you illustrated some of the reasons why that would be unlikely to be the case anyway.
I did read what you wrote - thanks. Also, I never said that you said that all orfi marriages were done without the bride - perhaps you should read what I wrote too.
Perhaps you were confused when I clarified the actual issue in question - orfi marriage (as opposed to civil marriage).
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: She was not giving her passport to a “total stranger”, but the man she wanted to have an orfi marriage with!
res ipsa loquitur !
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: As to implying “that this type of marriage is only really used between egyptian men and foreign women, between students etc” if you check back you will see that what I actually said was: “It seems to be most commonly used between Egyptian men and foreign tourists and also Egyptian students/young people.” I know other people do have orfi marriages, but I was just giving those examples as an illustration.
Exactly - you implied just that.
If you are not prepared to stand by what you originally said, don't say it.
Or say you have changed your mind.
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: I didn’t say that a registered orfi marriage entitles the woman to a visa; I said citizenship, i.e. an Egyptian passport, which is a permanent legal status that women who are married to Egyptian citizens are entitled to. If I have been mistakenly informed, as you seem to be implying, about the status of a court registered orfi marriage and the rights that it affords the wife and it is not equivalent to a civil marriage, please, by all means, let me know which rights they are not entitled to. If you can give me some supporting evidence that would be useful.
If orfi was equivalent to a civil marriage there would be no need for its existence ...
Posts: 41 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I think this discussion has run its course as I have said what I wanted to say and you don't seem to have anything positive to contribute. Thanks for your time.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: I think this discussion has run its course as I have said what I wanted to say and you don't seem to have anything positive to contribute. Thanks for your time.
Glad you feel happy for getting it all off your chest.
Keep your claws in, princess!
Posts: 41 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Hello all, I would like to get some extra information about the Orfi marriage... I'm not Egyptian and I got married with an Egyptian man in Luxor, we made a paper in the lawyer office, they asked me if I wanted to marry him I said yes and we signed 2 copies, then we went to colect the original blue stamped paper in the court next day... I was informed that the only international recognized marriage is performed only in Cairo... We have a child together and we would like to register the child in Egypt, does anyone know how it works?
Posts: 1 | From: Maryland | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
can someone pls tell me how to register a wedding there so its legal my god its all so hard i dont want an orfi wedding i want a proper wedding if we have a proper wedding i can bring my husband to ireland with me under EA law pls help us
posted
thanks newcomer im northern irish so i can use both we no that we are legally married there under british law i can bring him to me for free but we just dont no how do go about getting a legal wedding we have spent so much time and money everyone just want money its been 2 years now its not a fling we just want to be together someone told me theres a place in cairo only forigen women can be legally married
posted
Marriage laws changed recently, because of all of the problems that arised more and more, even in marriages between two Egyptian partners. It happened that a woman discovered the fact that she seemed to be married without even knowing it, because, for instance, she had land, money etc... Even a marriage between two Egyptians means a lot of paperwork now, including being present at the wedding,to place signatures AND fingerprints! I dont know how about a marriage between an Irish girl and an Egyptian man, but because of all that recent troubles, I think its better to get well informed (and prepared) before you actually will marry your BF.
BTW, I dont like to hear the automation marriage-visa...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
British embassy website has a list of lawyers and translators
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Interesting thread. Got me to register . A few remarks:
1. "Customary" is a good literal translation of the word "urfi," but "common-law" or "unofficial" capture the meaning better.
2. There are two separate goals that urfi marriages are used for, religious legitimacy and circumventing vice laws. Much of the discussion of the subject tends to mix the two.
3. The practical problem of getting a divorce in an urfi marriage can be solved by the girl getting issma at the time of marriage.
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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