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Author Topic: Egyptian lady doctotors needed for circumcising white girls in Saudi Arabia
fathima
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Dear friends

Heres a chat with a Saudi Doctor

Doctor Muzaffar-I have a medical practice in Jizan, Saudi Arabia which I practice female circumcision. I am a Egyptian and still spend much time there, but spend much time at my clinic in the Kingdom. My husband travels with me. Female circumcision is well established in Egypt and is now spreading in the Kingdom from the Tihama region of the Arabian peninsula. The locals have practiced in for many years and now the Saudi religious police have encouraged its spread in the Kingdom.
RZ-Why did you pick there to set up your practice if female Circumcision is easily available.
Doctor Muzaffar- I was recruited in my homeland, Egypt by the religious police as circumcising the young may be done by midwives, there was few trained female Doctors in the kingdom that Had experience in circumcising grown women.
RZ- Religious police?
Doctor Muzaffar- Yes , this is the new more tolerant religious police, where in the past Prostitution or Adultery was punishable by stoning , now sometimes they simply have the accused circumcised and , or infibulated. They bring them to my clinic and they are my guest for a day or two. I also Train nurses for the religious police to preform female circumcision. after a training period they are moved to female hospitals in other Kingdom cities. Clitoridectomy is not not a hard thing to learn for the average nurse.The religious police feel that female circumcision has many positive benefits. It calms women, ends lesbian activities, discourages adultery and prostitution. It allows women to concentrate on being good wives and mothers.

RZ- I thought that female circumcision was limited in Saudi Arabia.
Doctor Muzaffar-that was true for the most part in the past, it has always been present along the red sea and the areas that boarder Yemen. In the last few years it has grown allot spreading throughout the Kingdom. The west would have no way of knowing as women and women's issues are kept private. And the foreign women that are guest in the harems are kept out of sight. With modern security There is little chance that once they are here that anyone will hear from them again. Even if they managed to escape the harem it would be all but impossible for them to escape Saudi Arabia. The religious police would return them to their masters.Currently I would say that at least 25% of all women in Saudi Arabia are circumcised. It is growing popularity and with the growing number of trained midwives within a generation all women who have bore a child should have had the tip of their clitoris removed.


RZ- What is your clinic like?
Doctor Muzaffar-State of the art. a all female staff as this is women's business. My husband handles the dealings with the authorities and various male clients but he is not allowed into the secure treatment wing. The facility has no windows but is air conditioned which is a benefit as it is very hot and humid here in Jizan.For security there is only one entrance , a electric garage door. When a patient arrives the auto or van enters the garage door after putting a security code into electronic box.The inter door wont open till the outer one closes. Much of my 12 person female staff lives on site as well as all nurse trainees. There are food preparation facilities as well as 36 patient rooms and three treatment rooms.everything we need under one roof.
RZ- What are the patient rooms like?
Doctor Muzaffar- Very spartan, Small shower and toilet area, a bed. no window, no door knob on inside, remember some of our guest are wards of the Religious police. They would be hard to deal with if we lost one. each room has a video monitor that feeds to a central control center for monitoring.
RZ- What are the the treatment rooms like?
Doctor Muzaffar- Tiled in white floors, ceilings, walls. Kept spotlessly clean. Very bright and well lit. there is various medical equipment and supplies. And of course the treatment table.
RZ- What are the the treatment tables like?
Doctor Muzaffar- Again state of the art. It is very important that the patient not move during the operation and my table sees to that. It has a stainless steel frame and black leather padding. Unactivated it looks more like a lounge chair. The patient is led into the treatment room in a white gown and ask to sit .Once seated my assistance's secures their charge to the treatment chair. Strapes above and below the knee as well as across the instep of each foot. Wide leather straps across the belly above and below the breast. Another wide quite tight strap across the lower belly. The the wrist are placed in leather cuffs back against the chair even with the shoulders. Then the chair tips back and the legs spread into the classical Gyno chair. There are metal curves under the knees.The patient finds herself on her back Head down , legs spread. The activation of the chair tightens all the straps very securely. She will find she is totally immobilized. Once secured we shave the pubic hair, the area is cleaned with soap, then we treat the entire area with an antiseptic. At this point she is ready for me to circumcise her. If allowed by the authorities I take a needle and deaden the nerves around and leading to the clitoris. I start giving injections in a radial configuration. The last I give an injection under the clitoris into the main nerve. In most cases they will tense and grown a little at this point as the nerve is deaden.
RZ- What about a gag?
Doctor Muzaffar- No I don't see that as needed as we pay little attention to anything the patient says. If she is being cut on orders of the Religious police then one of my nurses places a rubber tongue depressant into the patients mouth and holds it into place. also a strap across the forehead is put into place and tightened . This gives her something to bite on as she is cut.The religious police dint allow us to use pain killers The patients from other sources I give injections into the local areas and they feel nothing.Most go to the table without much fuss , but some we have to drag kicking and screaming.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Doctor Muzaffar- Some young brides are brought in and we simply clip the tip of their clitoris off. Its pretty minor but very effective at controlling female behavior. Also I have a growing demand from the estates of the ruling class. In the Kingdom men can have up to four wives and many concubines. Some of the princes have many more than four wives. We have many very rich men and they have palaces where their women are kept out of site.It has become quite fashionable for a wealthy man to have his concubines circumcised. This also makes the religious leaders happy in knowing that many of these concubines are circumcised and their sexuality is controlled. Many religious leaders fell that it is a woman's place to provide pleasure to the male and bear children without receiving pleasure themselves, especially if they are infidel women.
RZ- Infidel women?
Doctor Muzaffar-Yes from many places, like the Balkins, Russia, Greece, France, Ireland and much of Europe. a few from America and other nations. Scandinavia is very popular. The young , the pretty , the stupid, Many college girls. They are easy to acquire. Some of the rich will go on hunting trips as they are called. They simply seduce a bird that they fancy, fly her to the Kingdom where she simply disappears into a harem to never be heard from again. Many of the older Princes will hire a recruiter to find him the right candidate.Once here she is turned over to
the old man to do with as he pleases. Several of the recruiters bring the candidates here for circumcision to calm them down before going onto their final destination. It is surprising how few western women know what female circumcision is. As a general rule when they arrive here they have no idea what we plan to do to them. you can imagine their surprise when they discover that we have removed their clitoris.
RZ- Are these women not looked for? What about their governments?
Doctor Muzaffar- Their governments dint care, they only want oil, a few of their women ending up in harems, they could care less. The women will never be heard from again. They are kept locked away where they please their master and bear his children. The circumcision calms them and prevents them from masturbating and dreaming of their past life and old boyfriends.
RZ- tell me about the circumcision procedure?
Doctor Muzaffar- Its about the clitoris. There are variation but the removal of the clitoris is central. The majority of circumcisions are simply snipping it off. This is most effective in controlling female behavior. 90% of the pleasure nerves are in the very tip. By just snipping off the tip will have the desired effect on female behavior. Masturbation will no longer be an option, they will find it just doesn't work anymore and will loose interest in trying to climax through masturbation. I have been training a steady stream of midwives who duties in the Kingdom outside of assisting with births is to see that no new mother leaves the maternity ward with her clitoris. This is a good time to circumcise women. with all the trauma from the birth the snipping the tip of the clitoris is hardly noticed, many women wont even notice its gone till the return to regular relations with their husbands. This makes her a better mother and wife. The religious police insist on clitoridectomy, .excision of the labia minora, incision of the labia majora and resewing it, leaving only a tiny hole to urinate out of. Also the clitoridectomy is far more in depth than just snipping the tip , the entire root is cut out. This is done to prostitutes and women taken in adultery.
I first take a hand clamp tool and grasp the clitoris and pull it out from the body and I make a oval incision around the base of the clitoris.With a scalpel I cut the surrounding flesh till the clitoris is held by the root. Below the clitoris head the main clitoris nerve I pull on the clitoris as hard as possible, pulling it by the attached nerve as far from the body as possible. and make a clean cut as deep as possible. There is allot of the clitoris that is removed that is not in the simple procedure. I then excision the labia minora followed by the incision of the labia majora and then I sew the mouth of the Vagina closed connecting the raw edges. There is a small hole to urinate out and pass menstrual blood. Not being able to use pain killers as defined by the religious police the woman are screaming and struggling but my special chair doesn't allow any movement. I always use pain killers if allowed by law.
My signature treatment is called the harem cut. Many of the western women that are bound for harems I do a full deep circumcision follow es by a modified infibulation. Not the sealing of the mouth of the vagina but once the clitoris is removed I tighten the top of the vagina with a couple of stitches after a incision at the top of the labia majora. My clients like this effect as it makes it tighter for her master.unless requested so I don't excision the labia minora. I don't think it matters as there isn't enough nerves to allow masturbation or climax during sex, though the labia minora may add to the pleasure of the male. the male seem to like my harem cut over the snip or the infibulation. Of course I can do lots of variations

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' Sharon Stone '
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Isn't FGM banned?
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FlyingTrucks
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quote:
Originally posted by ' Sharon Stone ':
Isn't FGM banned?

is money banned
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imagine
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well... thats just sick.. what else can i say
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Audrey Hepburn
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I felt really sick when I read that
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galmarriedtoegyptian
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I cannot breathe....
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Tibe
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I cant see why these men and religious leaders fell so treatend by womens sexuality.- they must be very insecure about there male status.
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imagine
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im glad im not the only 1 who allmost threw up when reading this post.. just picturing the poor lady strapped down like some kind of animal, and being cut in her clit without painkillers... i would probably pass out.

and tibe: good point...

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_
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This is really sick and horrible to read, women don't have anything to say what's happening to them? Religious police? This 'doctor' performs FGM without pain medication? She should be procecuted for performing these ops and the title should be taken away from her. God, this is disgusting to know.......
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imagine
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cant help but think.. arent the men who force the women to do this afraid that they will be so angry they will plot a revenge??? hehe a little snip here and there when they are having sex.. omg i hope some of those women chop of the mens "little friends".. that would be justice..
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Tibe
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quote:
Originally posted by imagine:
im glad im not the only 1 who allmost threw up when reading this post.. just picturing the poor lady strapped down like some kind of animal, and being cut in her clit without painkillers... i would probably pass out.

and tibe: good point...

Pass out is not enough for me - I think I would drop dead......And imagine how it feels like going to the bathroom the next couple of days after that "surgery" or if there is an infection.
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imagine
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibe:
quote:
Originally posted by imagine:
im glad im not the only 1 who allmost threw up when reading this post.. just picturing the poor lady strapped down like some kind of animal, and being cut in her clit without painkillers... i would probably pass out.

and tibe: good point...

Pass out is not enough for me - I think I would drop dead......And imagine how it feels like going to the bathroom the next couple of days after that "surgery" or if there is an infection.
Omg your right.. think i would die of pain everytime i went to pee after that.. [Eek!] [Eek!] ... I cant believe this really goes on..
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Ky Sunshine
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[Frown] Speachless
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Chef Mick
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that is so cruel and un human. may god forgive you
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Tibe
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quote:
Originally posted by micky azzam:
that is so cruel and un human. may god forgive you

your too good micky - I dont want anyone to forgive her - as for my opinion: I would be fine with her burning in hell.

Like my mother says :God forgivess but women dont.

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Chef Mick
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amen tibe but we as humans need to forgive also but we dont have to forget.people will burn in hell .god will punish them .he will take care of them . it isnt up to us to down them but i put it all in gods hands .
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uklady
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Don't they realise women think differently to men. Women are not all masturbating and crazy for sex. We have alot more self control then our male counterparts! This is all about control again not religion. Yes, these men are very insecure and uneducated. Its seems they treat their women like animals just to please the men. When the men are fucking god knows who! What double standards!
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Dalia*
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Am I the only one who thinks this text is a hoax? [Roll Eyes]
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EgyptianDoc77
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simply all nonsense being typed and takes advantage of the ignorant nature of many sympathetic readers.. Well , even if this happens she cant so openly reveal it for an article in that way or would risk her entire practice.. this is all hoax
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uklady
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You are right Dalia! I wonder whether this is a hoax! It sounds like a man could of written this. A women would know some of this is not true?
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Tibe
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I really hope this is a hoax. I saw a while ago a documentary of how they circumsize young schoolgirlsand baby girls in Somalia. I had to turn it of before it ended. 4 family members hold the girl down and an old lady with a razorblade perform the circumzition without painkillers. How can people be so cruel. In some cases the girls blead to death.....And all of them wasn't able to walk for a month and they nearly didn't get anything to drink or eat so they didn't have to use the toilet. And they sowed the vagina nearly together so when they had sex it really really really hurt and even worse when they had to give birth.
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Dalia*
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There are several texts like this out there, all written in a similar style. To me they sound as if they've either been written by someone who secretly gets turned on by this ... or maybe by someone who is opposed to FGM and thinks this way the issue will get more attention.
Whichever it is, it's a decidedly weird way to go about it imho.

Maybe "fathima" can enlighten us? [Big Grin]


fathima309

Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 10

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:33 am
Post subject: Australian converted muslim girls like circumcision


Dear friends

Read this letter
Women are the worst enimies of women
This is a letter from a circumcised muslim girl
from Australia

I am from Australia and married to a Muslim. I had always wanted to
be circumcised but was too afraid. I was cirumcised (amputation of
cliroris and labia) a few months before the wedding at his family's
insistence. I am glad that I had it done, even though it was very
painful. It was done by a medical doctor from Egypt who specialises
in female circumcision and who visits Australia to do circumcisions
twice a year.

I attended counselling at the muslim womens clinic (where the
circumcision took place)and I was given information about the
circumcision that would be performed. I spoke to other converts who
like me who were going through conversion and circumcisions. I found
most women preferred complete amputation of the clitoris and labia
for hygiene, happiness and comfort.

I was taken to the clinic by my mother in law and was given several
injections in the clitoral and labia area before the operation which
only dulled the pain a little. The doctor then cut the hood away in
two parts and then removed the rest of the clitoris and cut the labia
away in two parts. I then had 4 sutures and there was quite a bit of
bleeding, but it was a beautiful experience.

I fully understand why circumcision has survived in muslim culture
and why so many young muslim girls are proud to be circumcised. I
think if it had been my decision I would never have done it and so I
am grateful to my mother in law for arranging it and insisting that
it be done before the wedding.

In muslim culture female circumcision is viewed in a very positive
way and every young cirumcised girl that I have spoken to is always
so pleased they have had the operation, it is really something that
they look forward to. I would gladly do it again in a moment.

I am involved with other converts (from a western background like me)
who are comtemplating circumcision and I do readily encourage it, the
only thing I do not actively encourage is infibulation although I
would never discourage a women from that choice either. I work with
women from east african backgrounds and they seem to have many health
problems, although it must be said that women who are infibulated by
proper medical staff in proper medical conditions don't seem to have
too many problems.

However, women in Australia need to travel to muslim countries
overseas for infibulation as it usually involves a stay in hospital.
I know of two western converts who have been infibulated and they
have no regrets at all, although childbirth was not easy for them.

My husband is very insistent that should we have daughters then they
will be circumcised between the ages of 8 -14. He is worried that it
be done before puberty. I see many girls at this age having the
operation and as I have said it is such a postive and proud event in
their lives.

I would be interested in hearing other womens experiences on this
subject.


http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13008&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

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daria1975
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Total TROLL.
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Dalia*
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And most likely a fetishist. [Big Grin]

I then had 4 sutures and there was quite a bit of
bleeding, but it was a beautiful experience.


[Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes]

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mi feng
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibe:
I really hope this is a hoax. I saw a while ago a documentary of how they circumsize young schoolgirlsand baby girls in Somalia. I had to turn it of before it ended. 4 family members hold the girl down and an old lady with a razorblade perform the circumzition without painkillers. How can people be so cruel. In some cases the girls blead to death.....And all of them wasn't able to walk for a month and they nearly didn't get anything to drink or eat so they didn't have to use the toilet. And they sowed the vagina nearly together so when they had sex it really really really hurt and even worse when they had to give birth.

Yes, it is true. It happens all the time. To make some kind of excuse, as people sometimes will, saying that it "only happens in the villages" (how many times have I heard THAT?)is even sicker. Its a disgusting practice, no matter how its done.
I think this story is a load of bull. Funny thing is, people don't need to make this stuff up. It does happen in real life, in both violent and unsanitary settings and also in antiseptic environments where the patient has willingly agreed to have part of privates chopped off. Truly sad.

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Ayisha
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalia*:
Am I the only one who thinks this text is a hoax? [Roll Eyes]

no you are not
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islamway
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http://www.themuslimwoman.com/hygiene/femalecircumcision.htm
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doodlebug
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i'm gonna go throw up now.

[Frown]

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trababe
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i feel so sick to my guts and i knew this kind of stuff went on but to sit here and read such a graphic descripiton of what these girls have done is so gross and sounds like they are treated like animals being pinned down no pinkillers whats that all about!!!!!
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' Sharon Stone '
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Once someone wrote here about how Egyptian men are in fact responsible for not having what they need in Egyptian woman ( sexually ) because they "kill their femininity".

I clearly have those words in my ears. The guy was saying - it's men's fault so they should not complain. Something along those lines.

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Connie Anderson
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalia*:
Am I the only one who thinks this text is a hoax? [Roll Eyes]

No, but it doesn't have a hyperlink to prove its authenicness.

There are loads of Egyptians in KSA, and naturally there is a need for a doctor who performs FGM for her patients.

Whether we like it or not FGM is spreading, even in Iraq. But its spreading faster in Catholic Sub-Saharan Africa.

Personally I am rather thankful for the completely intact, wonderful and attractive vagina I have. God gave me this wonderful twat and I was always be thankful to her for making sure I grew up with it all its natural beauty in full. [Razz]

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' Sharon Stone '
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quote:
Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
Personally I am rather thankful for the completely intact, wonderful and attractive vagina I have. God gave me this wonderful twat and I was always be thankful to her for making sure I grew up with it all its natural beauty in full. [Razz]

ROFL [Big Grin] I agree. God made a woman in her most perfect form. You are funny.
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concernedforwomen
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Fathmia, you are really sick to have posted this. They don't need to capture white girls and do this to them.
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cocoapuffs
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This is clearly made up. Nobody who actually does the surgery talks like this, getting all into it as if this is soft porn or something.


Why dont you examine the source of what you read before you go posting this crap?

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concernedforwomen
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cocoapuffs, I think that some people get really excited about torturing american girls because they know that american girls are independent and sexually liberated.
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NourHayati
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RZ- Infidel women?
Doctor Muzaffar-Yes from many places, like the Balkins, Russia, Greece, France, Ireland and much of Europe. a few from America and other nations. Scandinavia is very popular. The young , the pretty , the stupid, Many college girls. They are easy to acquire. Some of the rich will go on hunting trips as they are called. They simply seduce a bird that they fancy, fly her to the Kingdom where she simply disappears into a harem to never be heard from again. Many of the older Princes will hire a recruiter to find him the right candidate.Once here she is turned over to
the old man to do with as he pleases. Several of the recruiters bring the candidates here for circumcision to calm them down before going onto their final destination. It is surprising how few western women know what female circumcision is. As a general rule when they arrive here they have no idea what we plan to do to them. you can imagine their surprise when they discover that we have removed their clitoris.
RZ- Are these women not looked for? What about their governments?
Doctor Muzaffar- Their governments dint care, they only want oil, a few of their women ending up in harems, they could care less. The women will never be heard from again. They are kept locked away where they please their master and bear his children. The circumcision calms them and prevents them from masturbating and dreaming of their past life and old boyfriends.
RZ- tell me about the circumcision procedure?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------


I will never lay my foot in Saudi Arabia [Eek!] I am not a "bird" ready to fall into the "hunter's" hands [Eek!] And I am a Greek and I am not an infidel - at least not as much infidel as those who call themselves "muslims" and go and kill innocent people. I wonder how these women, who decide to be circumcised, see the "treatment table" and not run away [Confused] These are the stupid women, those who believe that ethics and moral comes from their bed, not from the fact they may be experts in lies, theft, bad behaviour, etc. When shall women use their heads and think for themselves, eh? It is a man's world - who made up religions and rules anyway? If God wanted us without a clitoris, he would have made us without one.

Fathima, thanks for the post. I had many questions about FGM and now I can see clearly over the matter.

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NourHayati
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http://www.religioustolerance.org/fem_cirm.htm
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NourHayati
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http://www.cirp.org/pages/female/
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kaye
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[Eek!] [Eek!] For the first time EVER in my life ...I am speechless
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Dalia*
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www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=001964
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loborules
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thats sick ... lobo is ralphing all over the floor ... DOES THE F ING DOCTOR KNOW WHAT A CLITORIS IS ASSWIPE? MUCH LESS THESE 'RICH PRINCES? WE SHOULD CUT HIS DICK AND SHOVE IT UP HIS ASS ...
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antihypocrisy
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اهل الطب هم المتخصصين احنا نشوف رأيهم و ننفذه

الدكاترة في البلد كانوا بيطاهروا الحريم بتوع البلد

طيب ايه المشكلة الموضوع ما يرفش

اشمعنا يعني الرجاله بيطاهروا

WHY THE MEN IS CIRCUMCISED ONLY?

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*The Dark Angel* aka CAT
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quote:
Originally posted by Egyptian_batman:
اهل الطب هم المتخصصين احنا نشوف رأيهم و ننفذه

الدكاترة في البلد كانوا بيطاهروا الحريم بتوع البلد

طيب ايه المشكلة الموضوع ما يرفش

اشمعنا يعني الرجاله بيطاهروا

WHY THE MEN IS CIRCUMCISED ONLY?

you are an advoctor for FGM..... so [Roll Eyes] shut up [Roll Eyes]
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antihypocrisy
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عادي يعني ايه المشكلة لما البنت تعملها

مش أحسن ما يبقا حالها مايل

isn t that better than to be a bitch?

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Connie Anderson
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quote:
Originally posted by Egyptian_batman:
اهل الطب هم المتخصصين احنا نشوف رأيهم و ننفذه

الدكاترة في البلد كانوا بيطاهروا الحريم بتوع البلد

طيب ايه المشكلة الموضوع ما يرفش

اشمعنا يعني الرجاله بيطاهروا

WHY THE MEN IS CIRCUMCISED ONLY?

Forensic specialists are the people we saw their view, the sort of Doctors in the country were Petaherwa Harem guys country Ok no matter what the problem Ervch Ashmana mean men shouting Petaherwa

Because the covenant between God and Ibrahim was to CIRCUMCISED his son not Ibrahim's daughter.

Copeche?

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*The Dark Angel* aka CAT
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quote:
Originally posted by Egyptian_batman:
عادي يعني ايه المشكلة لما البنت تعملها

مش أحسن ما يبقا حالها مايل

isn t that better than to be a bitch?

Who said that uncircusized women are b!tches? Are you stupid? How can you tell? [Eek!]

Does having a tongue mean that you curse? [Roll Eyes]

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Connie Anderson
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quote:
Originally posted by Egyptian_batman:
عادي يعني ايه المشكلة لما البنت تعملها

مش أحسن ما يبقا حالها مايل

isn t that better than to be a bitch?

Normal means no problem for the girls that you can do.
Not the best condition then Mile

No actually from medical reports of Subsaharan Africa, FGM causes a woman to be constantly on the search for an orgasm.

Imagine how it is for a guy who becomes erect for a very long time and isn't able to cum or ejaculate. Its a psychologically damaging condition.

For these women, they can go rabid.

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antihypocrisy
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man who are circumcise are ercting and ejaculating no proble,

women who r circumcised r making orgaim no problem

there is no problem no problem no problem.

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*The Dark Angel* aka CAT
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quote:
Originally posted by Egyptian_batman:
man who are circumcise are ercting and ejaculating no proble,

women who r circumcised r making orgaim no problem

there is no problem no problem no problem.

How do you know? from where is your knowledge?
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sunburnt
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I do not believe for one moment that Saudi princes have woman circumcised (and I have inside knowledge) and if I am wrong where is the ethics of the doctor who does this to unwilling and unkowing "victims"
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