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Miss Sharm
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Hi,

Do Egyptian men ever stand up to their family because they want to be with the love of their life?

I am asking because my guy and me are going through the issue of his family do not accept me even though they haven't met me yet! They want him to marry an arab girl because of traditional values, they say she will look after him and it won't cause any complications.

I understand that his family want to keep things in Egypt and want to impose their values and beliefs onto him, but it just seems that he won't stand up to them. I have told him that I feel used by him because he must have been aware of their beliefs when he met me and that he wouldn't be allowed to be in a relationship with me and marry. How long did he really think that he could keep up the pretence that everything was ok forget to mention that I would not be accepted by the family.

He has said that he has spoken to them and told them that it is his life but the family won't accept this. I am trying to see it from their point of view and do understand how they must be viewing me as a divorced/single parent with 2 children.

This week I have had many long conversations with my guy and he does not know what to do - he wants to be with me and make a life together, but also feels a lot of respect towards his family. He is now even considering leaving from Sharm el Sheikh to go to another town because he has memories of me and him being in Sharm together and being very, very happy. He has even considered leaving Egypt all together and going to live in another arabic country. I have told him that he is running away form the situation and he needs to confront it. I feel that I am in a no win situation with his family because they won't let him be with me, then if he decides to leave from Egypt they still won't like me because I have made him leave from his country. He says that he wants to be with me more than anything and that if he can't his family will have killed him. He also does not want to marry an arab girl as he says there will be no love or feeling there from him.

I could go on and on explaining the situation more to you all but I think that you have got the idea of it.

I am now giving him the space to think and reach his decision and can only wait and hope that he will contact me. This situation is causing me and him so much pain when we seem to have had so many dreams together.

Do you think that he will ever stand up to his family?

Amanda x

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No, I don`t think so. And I also think that you have to make up your mind and take distance from him. You`ve brought this issue before, and you know that we`ve heard similar stories before.
Your mind is blinded by your love, and you can`t take decisions in this state of mind.
Try to take distance and think about it rationally. What did he ever try to have YOUR wellness in mind? Do you think it`s fair let a woman believe there is a future for you two together when he knows that you will never be accepted by his people, even in other Arabic countries? All what he has given you are words. Sweet words. But no actions. He tells you that he can`t marrie, you and that he even has considered leaving Egypt. Considered. Not more, not less. It`s a safe way to let you believe his attentions are good.Because no action has to be taken, it are only words...
Honey, I can tell you hundreds of stories. About Western women and about Egyptian women, who were held on a line. Blinded by their love for a man.
And in the meanwhile all the man is doing is give you sweet words and take.... take your body, take your money, take all what he can get.
I`ve seen several traumatized women, with big scarfs on their minds. Never been able to give their trust to any other man again.
And that hurts.
Please, think about yourself. What would be good for you, and for your children. Don`t let a man makes possession of your mind. A good man does not do this to a woman he loves. he would have your wellness in mind. And sometimes love means, let it go. Because it will destruct you.
If that man really loves you, he would take you to introduce you to his family. To let them know you, to show why he has choosed you, so they can love you also.
He didn`t do that, you never met his family, you don`t even know for sure they know about you.
This is a red flag, also the fact that he allows you to pay for him.
Make a list of all this red flags, and make a list with positive actions he has made to make this relationship work.
Maybe it will bring clearness for you.
Untill now you haven`t been able to make up your mind, even with all the stories about other people.
You need distance and clearness.
You need to know what YOU want for you and your children.

--------------------
“Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.”

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Ayisha
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Amanda, have you met his family? It is normal for them to meet you before he considers marrying you.

Most men that are in this situation will NOT do anything the family wants him not to do. Maybe if they meet you thier attitude will change?

Are you planning on living in Egypt or bringing him to UK? Not All Egyptian families want thier boys leaving Egypt.

Is he Muslim? and if he is, are you Muslim?

Sorry if this has been posted in other places but I read and dont always retain what I read about people [Big Grin]

You are from a totally different culture and life from his and his family so they of course will be very wary of you and your intentions as you and your family should also be wary of him and his intentions, its natural.

A lot depends on his age and his 'status' in his family whether he will go his way or as the family want. There is also the point that many Egyptians who marry a westerner against the family wishes will also marry an Egyptian too at some point in the future to satisfy the family.

--------------------
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unsure
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There is always the possibility. My friend and her fiance had problems with the fiance's mother because the mom was afraid that the american wife would not treat her son with respect, didn't know how the family would make it without him, americans don't like muslims, she was afraid for him in the USA, etc. He is the eldest child with 6 brothers and his father is deceased. So he is the breadwinner of the family. I honestly dont know what happened but the mom has accepted her son's fiance but it took a while over a year. Wish you luck. I believe if my girlfriend's fiance moim can change anyone's mother can change. Good Luck.
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quote:
Originally posted by unsure:
There is always the possibility. My friend and her fiance had problems with the fiance's mother because the mom was afraid that the american wife would not treat her son with respect, didn't know how the family would make it without him, americans don't like muslims, she was afraid for him in the USA, etc. He is the eldest child with 6 brothers and his father is deceased. So he is the breadwinner of the family. I honestly dont know what happened but the mom has accepted her son's fiance but it took a while over a year. Wish you luck. I believe if my girlfriend's fiance moim can change anyone's mother can change. Good Luck.

You don`t know what happened to the mother? I`ll tell you. The son was the eldest son and breadwinner, so that makes him head of the family.The son shall prefer to make his mom co-operate in a gentle way. he can do this, because the mother nearly don`t leave their houses and don`t know anything about what`s happening outside. So, he will convince her, and she will believe him, because she is depended on him and his money. She probably will accept anything from her son.
I know mothers who accept foreign daughters in law temporary, Egyptian daughters in law after that, and bastard children born out of illegitimate relationships at the same time! Because he brings in the money....
At the same times she is telling his brothers to behave decent and marrie a Egyptian wife. Because they don`t bring in money...
So hypocrite it can be...
The one who brings in the money can do whatever he likes, when he likes, where-ever he likes.And he will be praised by taking care of his family and his children. Even if that means he is not faithfull to any woman and he is living haram...

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Miss Sharm
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???? - Thank you for your comments and I know that I have to give me and him some distance. I could tell you more about the situation and why I do believe his intentions towards me but don't want to give out mine and his life story over the net, I repect myself and him to do that. I am feeling very hurt at the moment because if he knew of his families values why did he get into a relationship with me? Yes, I know the answers but it still doesn't stop me from hurting.

Ayisha - No I haven't met his family, the marriage think was something that me and him discussed between ourselves.
I do believe that if they were to meet me that they could possibly change their attitude towards me, this is something that he says that if they are to meet with me then he is sure that everything would be ok, but he can't even take me to meet with them because they won't even allow for him to do that.

We had planned to live in the UK because I feel that I can't up root my 2 children from their home, I also have financial commitments here.

Yes, he is muslim and I am not.

I know that the question that I put forward probably has been asked a million times before but just wanted some advice and the view point of others.

I understand that his family will be wary of me and my intentions just as me and my family are wary of his. I think that one of the main issues that his family have is I have previously been married before and am now divorced - they might think that I will do the same to their son, if only they knew the reasons why I eventually divorced, but then they might think that I should have accepted my ex-husbands behaviour towards me.

I believe that his family are worried that once he marries me that he will not be able to provide financially for them. He seems to work just to send money home for them. He is 28 years old but I don't think that he is the oldest son. I understand the viewpoint that if they marry a westerner that at somepoint they will also marry an Egyptian just to satisfy the family. However, I do believe that if he was to marry me and make our life together that it would mean that all ties with his family are broken and that they would not want anymore to do with him, he would be the so called 'Black Sheep' of the family.

I am now going to have some me time with my 2 children and if this guy contacts me when he reaches his decision then great, but if not I have to get on with my life and become another statistic in the statistics of foreigners falling for egyptian men!

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Ayisha
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miss sharm, I sent you a pm [Big Grin]

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Bringing in money makes you head of the family, don`t have to be the eldest son for that.
You talked about getting him to England, and that`s what he wants.
He can make a living in England, and not in a serious relationship with you. You are temporary usefull, nothing more.
Serious relationships are treatened in another way...

--------------------
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Miss Sharm
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quote:
Originally posted by ?????:
Bringing in money makes you head of the family, don`t have to be the eldest son for that.
You talked about getting him to England, and that`s what he wants.
He can make a living in England, and not in a serious relationship with you. You are temporary usefull, nothing more.
Serious relationships are treatened in another way...

Can you explain how serious relationships are treated in another way.....?
The only reason that we have discussed him coming to England is because of my 2 children, my financial committments I have here, my employment (was on benefits but from Monday now back in work). He talked to me very early on about wanting me to live in Sharm with him, so I am sorry but i do believe him when he says that he does not want to come to the UK.
I am sure he could make a living in England, but why would he not be in a serious relationship with me if we were married? I thought that marriage was a way of committing yourself to the other. If he was going to use me temporarily, then why didn't he marry me when I was there in August to start the visa process? I think that he does love me and want to be with me but I think he feels torn between me and his family.

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Miss Sharm
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayisha:
miss sharm, I sent you a pm [Big Grin]

Ayisha, I have sent you a pm as well! [Smile] Thanks for your advice and concerns, keep in touch, Amanda x
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unsure
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I agree with you ????? because my girlfriend said that her fiance said that when he come to USA and work that he will send money to his family and that he doesn't want kids because he has to support his family. She doesn't want any babies either because she has preteenagers. I try to talk to her about that but her mind is made up. I just couldn't support his family for life.
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Ayisha
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quote:
Originally posted by unsure:
I agree with you ????? because my girlfriend said that her fiance said that when he come to USA and work that he will send money to his family and that he doesn't want kids because he has to support his family. She doesn't want any babies either because she has preteenagers. I try to talk to her about that but her mind is made up. I just couldn't support his family for life.

So if YOUR family were in a situation they needed YOU to support them, would you?
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In serious relationships he wants you to meet his family as a start, so that he will know if you will be accepted or not.
After that he or his family will not accept any financial support, because it is the honor of the man that he takes care of his family.
If you bring presents for the family they will give you something in return, even it`s their last money.
If you go out with him it will always be with an 3rd person to occur temptation.
The men pay for everything, even if they have less money then you have.
You become a member of the family.
You are being protected against other men, and this includes your freedom will reduce. Your safeness and your wellness is the responsibility from the family now.
The most easy way to do this is to keep you in the safety of their houses. If he really cares for you and loves you, he and another male will take you out regularry.
It will become your obligation to take care for the family in housekeeping. In fact you have to do housework for his mother, and she will make the Egyptian way of living familiar to you.
from one side it feels warm and protected, from the other side, as an European woman, you have to hand in much from yourself. You`re not an individual anymore, you`re part of a family.
With a head of the family, who takes decisions.
This is very difficult for somebody who is born and raised as an indivudual independant person.
Sometimes young men are frustrated by all that family-rules. By every problem the family is involved and you never can make decisions of your own.Grandmothers are making decisions for their adult sons! The only way to escape from this is to make a lot of money so that will make the family quiet, and accepting everything you do.In fact money makes you independant, just like it`s used in Europe...

--------------------
“Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.”

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Screw you
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It depends on him, my ex didn't ask his family, he told them, it was the case of look it's like this end of. But I have to point out that my ex was over 25, living on his own in egypt and had lived in germany for 10 years.

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Live in the present.
Hope for the future.

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lombardo47
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Hello Miss Sharm,
I am an egyptian lebanese guy ,and i understand ur problem .I was living in UK before and my parents were afraid 2 marry british or foreigner.Arabic parents get afraid that thier son will marry a foreigner bec they dont have the same culture especially if they r muslims.If you are gonna respect his culture and u really love him ,believe me they will be happy and glad bec their son got married to a good girl.Here in egypt ,alot of egyptians got married to foreigners and after 3 or even 10 years the next day they travel to their countries without even telling her husband ,alot of stories are like this and we hear .Tell u the truth i was with a foreigner before and she did that to me ,however i gave her all my life and love .Of course not all foreigners like that ,i have a lot of friends got married to foreigners and they are veryyyyy happy and proud of their wives...
Dont u ever leave him ,just2 help him and try 2 get a good solution.If u r just taking a break then it means u r leaving him.Talk wiz him ,and u have 2 make him stronger and never let him down ..what if his parents dont want a foreigner ,this is his life ,doesnt he work and he has his own money ??? so marryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy each other guyss ,love is the best thing .Look you are not doing somthing wrong u r gonaa marry ,so no1 can say that wot u r doing is wrong ,wot is this fucking life bec 2 people r gonna marry ,the others r saying it is wrong ,and if we r doing bad things in our life people says yesssss wot u r doing is correct ,**** people and marrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry ,dont be afraid of anything .take care miss sharm

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akshar
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quote:
Originally posted by ?????:
In serious relationships he wants you to meet his family as a start, so that he will know if you will be accepted or not.
After that he or his family will not accept any financial support, because it is the honor of the man that he takes care of his family.
If you bring presents for the family they will give you something in return, even it`s their last money.
If you go out with him it will always be with an 3rd person to occur temptation.
The men pay for everything, even if they have less money then you have.
You become a member of the family.
You are being protected against other men, and this includes your freedom will reduce. Your safeness and your wellness is the responsibility from the family now.
The most easy way to do this is to keep you in the safety of their houses. If he really cares for you and loves you, he and another male will take you out regularry.
It will become your obligation to take care for the family in housekeeping. In fact you have to do housework for his mother, and she will make the Egyptian way of living familiar to you.
from one side it feels warm and protected, from the other side, as an European woman, you have to hand in much from yourself. You`re not an individual anymore, you`re part of a family.
With a head of the family, who takes decisions.
This is very difficult for somebody who is born and raised as an indivudual independant person.
Sometimes young men are frustrated by all that family-rules. By every problem the family is involved and you never can make decisions of your own.Grandmothers are making decisions for their adult sons! The only way to escape from this is to make a lot of money so that will make the family quiet, and accepting everything you do.In fact money makes you independant, just like it`s used in Europe...

This is a very accurate reflection of Egyptian thought. Of course it is a generalisation but pretty accurate for all that.
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unsure
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Ayisha, I would help my family if they needed it but would not support them indefinitely. All of his siblings work including the mom and all his siblings live at home with their mom.
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SayWhatYouSee
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Don't families help each other out, where possible, wherever you live? If my British husband's family were in need of financial support, I wouldn't hesitate to help out (and he would do the same for me). We are all one family.

I appreciate that many Egyptian families are poorer than western ones, although living expenses are so much cheaper in Egypt than in the UK. Surely this would only be an issue when the western family unit struggled to make ends meet themselves? Otherwise, a little would go a long way, in Egypt.

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Rumicrazieluv
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quote:
Originally posted by Miss Sharm:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ?????:
[qb] Bringing in money makes you head of the family, don`t have to be the eldest son for that.
You talked about getting him to England, and that`s what he wants.
He can make a living in England, and not in a serious relationship with you. You are temporary usefull, nothing more.
Serious relationships are treatened in another way...

Can you explain how serious relationships are treated in another way.....?
The only reason that we have discussed him coming to England is because of my 2 children, my financial committments I have here, my employment (was on benefits but from Monday now back in work). He talked to me very early on about wanting me to live in Sharm with him, so I am sorry but i do believe him when he says that he does not want to come to the UK.
I am sure he could make a living in England, but why would he not be in a serious relationship with me if we were married? I thought that marriage was a way of committing yourself to the other. If he was going to use me temporarily, then why didn't he marry me when I was there in August to start the visa process? I think that he does love me and want to be with me but I think he feels torn between me and his family.

Miss sharm, Plz stop. I have also read all of your posts in different topics. You keep posting to get any answer that is what you want to hear so you can hang on to this relationship. You posted why didnt he marry me when i was there, but yet in another post you said he had you sign papers so you can share an apartment together and he said this means your his "wife" and that all his friends think of you as his wife. In another post you said the same thing, that his family wouldnt accept you, this was prior to this. Are you going to keep going until you get the answers you want to hear? How can you give advice to other woman on here when you are just grasping at straws. You should stop blinding yourself to these signs and warning bells and beat feet as fast as you can. You said in another post that you are a kind hearted person,you probably are, and this is what the problem is.Many, many people mistake kindness for weakness and stupidity and they like to rip people like this to shreds. This is the quality that evil men and rotten con artists pray on. Plz step yourself out of this before we have to console you on here when your heart is ripped out. There are many wonderful men in this world who will not just tell you words of love but show you love. "Words are just words, they come out of a mans mouth and are gone on the wind, but actions will forever imprint themselves on your heart".
[Smile]

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quote:
Originally posted by Rumicrazieluv:
quote:
Originally posted by Miss Sharm:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ?????:
[qb] Bringing in money makes you head of the family, don`t have to be the eldest son for that.
You talked about getting him to England, and that`s what he wants.
He can make a living in England, and not in a serious relationship with you. You are temporary usefull, nothing more.
Serious relationships are treatened in another way...

Can you explain how serious relationships are treated in another way.....?
The only reason that we have discussed him coming to England is because of my 2 children, my financial committments I have here, my employment (was on benefits but from Monday now back in work). He talked to me very early on about wanting me to live in Sharm with him, so I am sorry but i do believe him when he says that he does not want to come to the UK.
I am sure he could make a living in England, but why would he not be in a serious relationship with me if we were married? I thought that marriage was a way of committing yourself to the other. If he was going to use me temporarily, then why didn't he marry me when I was there in August to start the visa process? I think that he does love me and want to be with me but I think he feels torn between me and his family.

Miss sharm, Plz stop. I have also read all of your posts in different topics. You keep posting to get any answer that is what you want to hear so you can hang on to this relationship. You posted why didnt he marry me when i was there, but yet in another post you said he had you sign papers so you can share an apartment together and he said this means your his "wife" and that all his friends think of you as his wife. In another post you said the same thing, that his family wouldnt accept you, this was prior to this. Are you going to keep going until you get the answers you want to hear? How can you give advice to other woman on here when you are just grasping at straws. You should stop blinding yourself to these signs and warning bells and beat feet as fast as you can. You said in another post that you are a kind hearted person,you probably are, and this is what the problem is.Many, many people mistake kindness for weakness and stupidity and they like to rip people like this to shreds. This is the quality that evil men and rotten con artists pray on. Plz step yourself out of this before we have to console you on here when your heart is ripped out. There are many wonderful men in this world who will not just tell you words of love but show you love. "Words are just words, they come out of a mans mouth and are gone on the wind, but actions will forever imprint themselves on your heart".
[Smile]

Again:
In serious relationships he wants you to meet his family as a start, so that he will know if you will be accepted or not.
After that he or his family will not accept any financial support, because it is the honor of the man that he takes care of his family.
If you bring presents for the family they will give you something in return, even it`s their last money.
If you go out with him it will always be with an 3rd person to occur temptation.
The men pay for everything, even if they have less money then you have.
You become a member of the family.
You are being protected against other men, and this includes your freedom will reduce. Your safeness and your wellness is the responsibility from the family now.
The most easy way to do this is to keep you in the safety of their houses. If he really cares for you and loves you, he and another male will take you out regularry.
It will become your obligation to take care for the family in housekeeping. In fact you have to do housework for his mother, and she will make the Egyptian way of living familiar to you.
from one side it feels warm and protected, from the other side, as an European woman, you have to hand in much from yourself. You`re not an individual anymore, you`re part of a family.
With a head of the family, who takes decisions.
This is very difficult for somebody who is born and raised as an indivudual independant person.
Sometimes young men are frustrated by all that family-rules. By every problem the family is involved and you never can make decisions of your own.Grandmothers are making decisions for their adult sons! The only way to escape from this is to make a lot of money so that will make the family quiet, and accepting everything you do.In fact money makes you independant, just like it`s used in Europe...

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Rumicrazieluv
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I totally agree with you ?????. I have been on ES long enough to know this, what I am not getting is why she wants to keep fooling herself.Sharm keeps posting in different threads, backpeddling herself, and living in total denial.She will not listen to you because you put the facts right up front for here, instead she will listen to anyone that gives her a spot of false hope. This is very sad to see.
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Questionmarks
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It is sad! Really, women can`t make a realistic imagination of the issue themselves. They don`t know Arabic culture, and the place of the women in common in that culture, also don`t realize about the consequences for devorced women in that society. They don`t know how Arabic men think.Devorced women are being used as objects to have sex with! They already lost their virginity, so it isn`t that bad...
They`re blinded by only words.And they travel as willing subjects to a culture they can`t imagine...

--------------------
“Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.”

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Life is good
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quote:
Originally posted by ?????:
It is sad! Really, women can`t make a realistic imagination of the issue themselves. They don`t know Arabic culture, and the place of the women in common in that culture, also don`t realize about the consequences for devorced women in that society. They don`t know how Arabic men think.Devorced women are being used as objects to have sex with! They already lost their virginity, so it isn`t that bad...
They`re blinded by only words.And they travel as willing subjects to a culture they can`t imagine...

Yes,this is true with the uneducated. I know of and have been told stories as you describe above. One woman's husband died and not even one month later there were six supposed suitors waiting like cats in heat.

It is so different with educated and sucessful women. They defo call the shots.

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Chef Mick
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i am american and i love musliums my husband and his family are musliums.dont say all amrticans dont like musliums. they are human being like the rest of us.its not the religion i love from him its what kind of man he is and hiw he treats me. thats what i love
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quote:
Originally posted by spacedust:
quote:
Originally posted by ?????:
It is sad! Really, women can`t make a realistic imagination of the issue themselves. They don`t know Arabic culture, and the place of the women in common in that culture, also don`t realize about the consequences for devorced women in that society. They don`t know how Arabic men think.Devorced women are being used as objects to have sex with! They already lost their virginity, so it isn`t that bad...
They`re blinded by only words.And they travel as willing subjects to a culture they can`t imagine...

Yes,this is true with the uneducated. I know of and have been told stories as you describe above. One woman's husband died and not even one month later there were six supposed suitors waiting like cats in heat.

It is so different with educated and sucessful women. They defo call the shots.

If there is no family to protect, these things happen...
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lombardo47
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Micky azzam- You are right 100 percent and am wiz u .God bless you and wish u a good life wiz ur husband forever.
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Chef Mick
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thankyou same to you [Wink]
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unsure
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Micky it is so evident you MISINTERPRETED my post I said my friends fiance mother (which is EGYPTIAN) said "Americans don't like Muslims" and she changed her tune so I was not generalizing. I was letting Miss sharm know that family could change their mind about her.
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hollanda
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Dear miss Sharm,

I think it'll not be easy at all but there is a possibility that your boyfriend can convince his family. I think they never stand up against their family! He will have to convince them if the two of you are strong enough to do this. Many replies i agree with especially when he is the 'head'of the family his opinion will be more strong in the family. I agree that you must also see it from their point of view because they don't know you and maybe they just heard many bad storied about western woman. It's very important to meet them but choose the right time for this. First let your boyfriend convince them about how you are and how you live your life. I must admitt that it'll be more hard when you already have children, this makes it more complicated. Even if you are the most loving person, it doesn't fit in the picture they imagined for their son. In europe most of the parents are also not jumping for joy when you tell them that you have a relationship with an Egyptian. They must be sure you are happy and that you are sure of this relationship. This your boyfriend must make clear to his family and after that you meet them and they have to trust you.

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mysticheart
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well there is hope that he will stand up to them and say hey, i love her and i want her only her.
I just got off the phone with my boyfriend and he told me again that he will be traveling within the next couple weeks to aswan to his mother only to convince her and talk with her about me. He will go and tell her that he loves me and wants to marry only me no one else. His brother and a few of his male cousins have also met me. He has asked his brother to tell her how i am and how i love him. His brother really likes me and commented many times that i am more egyptian by nature than i ever could be american. He is also taking his cousins with him since they have met me and having them tell her of me too. He said tonight that everyone that met me including the italians told him that there is no way i am american, that i am far too quiet and polite. That i am egyptian by heart and the perfect one to be his wife. Lol i guess that his cousins and friends came with this during the times we went to his shop so he could deal with work and i sat behind his desk quietly waiting for him. I didnt talk to anyone unless they spoke to me and i made change for the employees to give to the customers but i didnt talk unnecessarily or interupt my love. I let him do as he needed and waited for him to finish. From this i guess they see me as not american but egyptian that i was able to do that and not complain or get up and visit with others around?? But it shows so much hope that he is going to talk to her and tell her that he wants only me and that he is having his brother speak with her and his cousins also. He wants to live in egypt together but has said that if i cant come right away then we will do our marriage and he will come here to stay with me for 6 months to see how things are here. If he likes it here then he will return to egypt to sell his businesses and finish things there, if he doesnt like it here then he will return to egypt and we will take turns spending time in each place together until i can move there.
Miss Sharm hold onto the hope. He loves you from what you have told me and as long as you stay by his side and show him you love him then he will have reason to fight for you.
Get contact with him again and stop the time thinking about what to do and concentrate on the fact that you love each other.
Most of all Pray dear girl, pray with all you have inside, allah god whatever name you call him by, he will be by you and help you through it all.

--------------------
http://image.lafemmebonita.com/c/av879029.jpg

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Miss Sharm
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Will Egyptian men ever stand up to their family? -Everyone on ES i just want to tell you that in the case of my Egyptian guy that I have been asking for advice over, that the answer is NO he will not stand up to his family, but will lie to them about me and who I am! I have taken some time out away from the situation and thought very hard about me, him, our lives, etc. I have now reached the conclusion that I he has been leading me up the garden path! When I look back it was only words from him and never showed me his love by his actions. If I hadn't asked him the question about his family knowing about me he would still be trying to deceive me and tell me more and more lies each day. I am sure that already he is on to his next victim telling them the same stories he told me. I have learnt a very hard lesson but with time and the great support from friends and family will get over my pain and hurt. I would just like to say thank you to everyone on ES that has shown me support and given me advice, even though the advice at times was maybe not what I wanted to hear it did eventually bring me to my senses. If some good has come out of it though I have met some wonderful friends here on ES and I am sure I will be in contact with you all for a very long time. Thank you.

If I keep on smiling I am sure the sun will shine on me one day soon! [Smile]

Take care, Amanda x x

p.s. Does anyone know how to get in contact with the Russain gigolo website so I can put the details of that guy on it?! [Wink]

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crazypolly
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Hi Miss Sharm,

I'm sure you've made the right decision you must follow your heart and your head even if it's hard. That russian website your asking about was on somebody elses thread sorry can't remember who but its www.dezy-house.ru [Big Grin] that will teach him. Goodluck I'm sure the sun will come out again [Smile] and if you ever need to chat let me know. Take care x

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quote:
Originally posted by Miss Sharm:

p.s. Does anyone know how to get in contact with the Russain gigolo website so I can put the details of that guy on it?! [Wink]

Why would you wanna do this? Okay it's obviously that he has chosen his path by sticking to the obligations what his parents, his family ask of him. But it doesn't mean he does not care about you.

You even stated yourself that just shortly you both had long conversations with him about this subject.

And I assume that you already knew the answer to this question when you posted your topic here.

Listen, your relationship is over with him, he didn't use you, he didn't ask for money, clothes, visa etc. or did he? If you had sex you both wanted it. Remember the good times you had with him, nothing else and move on. But don't be mean even if you feel right now he hurted your pride by not moving on with the plans you both made together.

Give him the benefit of the doubt that he cares about and loves you ....... but because of cultural differences he can't make it work after all. And it doesn't make him less of a man.

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crazypolly
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Hi tigerlilly what a sensible and levelheaded person you appear to be:) your right miss sharm must move on with her life and if he is genuine then he is to be commended,even though it is hurting miss sharm. But from this and other posts I got the impression he was using her but that is obviously just an assumption cos I don't know all the facts. Maybe your right and she shouldn't post his info on the russian site.
But what if he was a player shouldn't he be stopped?

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Miss Sharm
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quote:
Originally posted by Tigerlily:
Listen, your relationship is over with him, he didn't use you, he didn't ask for money, clothes, visa etc. or did he? If you had sex you both wanted it. Remember the good times you had with him, nothing else and move on. But don't be mean even if you feel right now he hurted your pride by not moving on with the plans you both made together.

Give him the benefit of the doubt that he cares about and loves you ....... but because of cultural differences he can't make it work after all. And it doesn't make him less of a man. [/QB]

Sorry but I do not agree with you Tigerlily, he has used me for what he could get and that does inlcude money, clothes and would probably have meant a visa eventually! He lied to his family about me and even when I was there in August told them that I was staying at the hotel he works at and not in the apartment we where sharing together. Perhaps he did love and care for me but I truly do doubt that, if he knew that his family wouldn't accept me marrying him then why get yourself involved with a foreigner. If I hadn't approached the subject with him I honestly believe that he would never have told me and would still have me believe that we could live happily ever after! Anyway I am getting on with my life and putting it all down to experience and I believe the experiences that we go through in our lives make us the people that we are. I will keep smiliing because I know that I have a lot to be happy about. [Smile]

Amanda x

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Miss Sharm
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I won't be putting his details on the Russian website because I would like to think that I am a not a hateful person. I am sure you can appreciate that I am hurting at the moment because of what has happened but I have seen the light and this guys intentions where not as I originally thought. I will let others find out what he his like and when I see that they have posted his details on the Russian website then I will be laughing! I am just pleased that I have listened to others warnings and taken their advice on, at least I hadn't given everything up in the UK to be with this guy in Egypt! [Smile]
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quote:
Originally posted by Miss Sharm:
Sorry but I do not agree with you Tigerlily, he has used me for what he could get and that does inlcude money, clothes and would probably have meant a visa eventually! He lied to his family about me and even when I was there in August told them that I was staying at the hotel he works at and not in the apartment we where sharing together.

Well, I don't think you posted the above details before (besides he had problems to break this relationship to his family) so of course these things totally change the view of your relationship with him.

Hell yes, you are better off without him. If I'd be you I wouldn't waste a single thought about him anymore, post a thread or run after him. It's obvious he used you.

Good luck in the future! [Smile]

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Miss Sharm
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I did post the details before about how he had used me for money and clothes when I visited in August but understand that there are so many postings on ES that you can't remember everything. I know that he doesn't care about me as he had me believe he has proven that to me this week! Life goes on and with this experience I know that it will make me a stronger person.

Amanda x

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Great, Amanda, what doesn't kill you can only make you stronger. All the best!
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Bronzed Adonis
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quote:
Originally posted by Miss Sharm:

If I keep on smiling I am sure the sun will shine on me one day soon! [Smile]

Take care, Amanda x x

p.s. Does anyone know how to get in contact with the Russain gigolo website so I can put the details of that guy on it?! [Wink]

Very wise words. From the look of your photo on another thread, your smile will cause positivly tropical weather!

Can you direct me to the gigolo website please? Might be the only way I get a bird these days! [Big Grin]

BA x

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Miss Sharm
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Bronzed Adonis - Are you trying to chat me up? [Wink]

The russian website is www.dezy-house.ru, but it is to warn others about the gigolos that you can come across in Egypt or Turkey. Are you saying that you think that your details should be contained on this website? Any sensible woman would not want to me meet with any of the guys that are listed on there! [Wink]

Amanda x

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daria1975
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Miss Sharm,

I'm really sorry about what happened to you with the Egyptian guy, but applaud your strength at letting him go.

Egypt is a poor, developing country, and makes sense that many men, especially in the resort areas, are looking for a way out. Not condoning their behavior, just giving a reason for it.

That being said, that is exactly why so many posters here go on and on about how a typical Egyptian man is supposed to act. How it's his culture to pay for everything, how he's not supposed to really date before marriage, how his family is extremely important to him and it's typical to meet the family before getting engaged. When dealing with a foreign culture, these *stereotypes* of decent Egyptian male behavior are sometimes the *only* indicators of whether a man has good intentions or bad.

It's sad because it doesn't leave room for individuality, which we as Westerners highly value. I'm sure there are wonderful honest, decent Egyptian men in the resort towns. I know a couple of people here who have married men from Luxor, Hurgada, etc., and who are genuinely happy. But when there is such an outrageously huge disparity in income levels between an average Egyptian man and an average Western woman, it can be difficult to ascertain if the man's intentions are genuine or not.

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Questionmarks
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Egypt doesn`t have a society based on individuality. You`re member of a group.
When you want to be an individual, you`ll have a problem. All what I do, ask, say etc. is related to my family. So, if I do wrong, the head of my family will be informed and he has to take action. If I do good, he will be informed to, and it will make him very happy.
That doesn`t mean there is no space at all for individual development, but there is always a contribution to make...

--------------------
“Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.”

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LaZeeZ
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quote:
Originally posted by Tream Lefty:
Miss Sharm,

I'm really sorry about what happened to you with the Egyptian guy, but applaud your strength at letting him go.

Egypt is a poor, developing country, and makes sense that many men, especially in the resort areas, are looking for a way out. Not condoning their behavior, just giving a reason for it.

That being said, that is exactly why so many posters here go on and on about how a typical Egyptian man is supposed to act. How it's his culture to pay for everything, how he's not supposed to really date before marriage, how his family is extremely important to him and it's typical to meet the family before getting engaged. When dealing with a foreign culture, these *stereotypes* of decent Egyptian male behavior are sometimes the *only* indicators of whether a man has good intentions or bad.

It's sad because it doesn't leave room for individuality, which we as Westerners highly value. I'm sure there are wonderful honest, decent Egyptian men in the resort towns. I know a couple of people here who have married men from Luxor, Hurgada, etc., and who are genuinely happy. But when there is such an outrageously huge disparity in income levels between an average Egyptian man and an average Western woman, it can be difficult to ascertain if the man's intentions are genuine or not.

Many of those relationships are between people who are useing each other. There's so little or 'no' concern about 'knowing' each other. For one the sex is good and for the other the money is good.

I have seen some gurls who sleep with guys they don't understand one single sentence of what they say. The guys eventually dumped the gurls and the gurls went crying.

An everyday story and you only get to hear the 'money' part of it most of the time.

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daria1975
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quote:
Originally posted by LaZeeZ:
Many of those relationships are between people who are useing each other. There's so little or 'no' concern about 'knowing' each other. For one the sex is good and for the other the money is good.

It's not my thing, but I object more to extremely imbalanced relationships where one person is almost certainly going to get hurt. If both parties are approaching it as a relationship of mutual convenience, what can you do?

But I get the feeling that most women who are posting here are looking for a genuine relationship/marriage with their Egyptian man. And in that context, they are very susceptible to getting hurt emotionally.


quote:
Originally posted by LaZeeZ:

I have seen some gurls who sleep with guys they don't understand one single sentence of what they say. The guys eventually dumped the gurls and the gurls went crying.

I am either a little too old, or a little too old-fashioned to find this type of behavior acceptable (casual sex). Western women do it with Western men and get hurt. I don't know why they'd expect anything different with an Egyptian man. And why is it you never hear of a man sleeping with a woman too soon, getting dumped, and then *he* is crying?
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LaZeeZ
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quote:
Originally posted by Tream Lefty:


But I get the feeling that most women who are posting here are looking for a genuine relationship/marriage with their Egyptian man. And in that context, they are very susceptible to getting hurt emotionally.


I don't count much on the stories here because at the end they are one side stories. What I count on is what I have seen by my eyes. There are many looking for 'geniune' relationships from both sides but there are SO MANY who will visit here, see a guy they think they can't get one as handsome back home and sleep with him in a couple of days. They will do anything to please the guy and it will seem like they are looking for geniune relationship, but how did this all start?. I don't think a relationship based on looks or sex is much different from that based on money.

Here you will hear about 'ringing bells' whenever money is mentioned in a relationship but those bells don't seem to work when a woman lives with a guy she knew for a couple of days and knows nothing about him except that his looks are great.

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daria1975
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quote:
Originally posted by LaZeeZ:
quote:
Originally posted by Tream Lefty:


But I get the feeling that most women who are posting here are looking for a genuine relationship/marriage with their Egyptian man. And in that context, they are very susceptible to getting hurt emotionally.


I don't count much on the stories here because at the end they are one side stories. What I count on is what I have seen by my eyes. There are many looking for 'geniune' relationships from both sides but there are SO MANY who will visit here, see a guy they think they can't get one as handsome back home and sleep with him in a couple of days. They will do anything to please the guy and it will seem like they are looking for geniune relationship, but how did this all start?. I don't think a relationship based on looks or sex is much different from that based on money.

Here you will hear about 'ringing bells' whenever money is mentioned in a relationship but those bells don't seem to work when a woman lives with a guy she knew for a couple of days and knows nothing about him except that his looks are great.

It's very true that these stories are one-sided. I've never *seen* one of these relationships start, so I have absolutely no idea what is involved. Some women who go searching for love in a resort town might not be the most emotionally-healthy people, but it doesn't mean they aren't genuinely looking for their soul mates. (They just aren't going about it in the smartest manner.)

There was a very interesting article in Vanity Fair a few months ago, about the culture surrounding the Dahab bombings. One piece of the article focused on a young resort worker who had travelled to Sharm, I think, to find work from his own rural town. It traced his hopes and his failures - bribing people just to get a busboy job in a restaurant, only to never make as much in one season as the bribe his family paid.

In Sharm, he met a Canadian woman with whom he maintained correspondence for months. He told the reporter he was truly in love with this woman, but after a while she stopped writing back. He was heartbroken. It was the first time I'd seen the man's side of the story. And while his relationship/feelings with the foreigner may not have started out on the purest of terms (he freely admitted to wanting to get out of Egypt because he couldn't find work), I think his feelings seemed real.

My point is I think most people have *issues,* but it doesn't mean they aren't looking for real love.

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LaZeeZ
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quote:
Originally posted by Tream Lefty:

My point is I think most people have *issues,* but it doesn't mean they aren't looking for real love.

I have seen relationships which started based on 'Visa or money' for 'looks' and evolved to be very happy love marriages. The thing which brought them together was not a genuine 'look' for love but an obsession or a need which turned to love eventually but most of the time it doesn't turn that way when either of the partners can't seem to find the other one suitable for them or they find a more qualified partner in this area and at this point they dump them.

Real love, to me, isn't any sort of feelings developed for someone else. You can develop feelings on any ground but as long as you don't know exactly 'who' you're loving, to me, it's not REAL. Call it a fling, lust or desperation or even love but not REAL love.

Are most of the relationships between tourists and Egyptians based on two invidiuals coming together, admiring each other and developing love by knowing each other? I don't think so.

Relationships here between TOURISTS -remember again they are tourists- and Egyptians are usualy based on grounds such as lust and benefits.

Because the guy's needs, in this relationships, are obviously materialistic, it's easier to spot him as the liar irresponsible who doesn't care, and no one notice that the gurl too developed those feelings because she was desperate to have 'something' she liked. I call it 'something' because the person side of 'him', she didn't get to know. so, in away they both developed feelings for 'something' .

When a woman come here and cry for loseing a guy she didn't know, it brings to me the question, what did she lose which makes her cry? obviously not the person. You can't lose something you didn't acknowledge. what was it then?

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al-Kahina
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quote:
Originally posted by LaZeeZ:
quote:
Originally posted by Tream Lefty:

My point is I think most people have *issues,* but it doesn't mean they aren't looking for real love.

I have seen relationships which started based on 'Visa or money' for 'looks' and evolved to be very happy love marriages. The thing which brought them together was not a genuine 'look' for love but an obsession or a need which turned to love eventually but most of the time it doesn't turn that way when either of the partners can't seem to find the other one suitable for them or they find a more qualified partner in this area and at this point they dump them.

Real love, to me, isn't any sort of feelings developed for someone else. You can develop feelings on any ground but as long as you don't know exactly 'who' you're loving, to me, it's not REAL. Call it a fling, lust or desperation or even love but not REAL love.

Are most of the relationships between tourists and Egyptians based on two invidiuals coming together, admiring each other and developing love by knowing each other? I don't think so.

Relationships here between TOURISTS -remember again they are tourists- and Egyptians are usualy based on grounds such as lust and benefits.

Because the guy's needs, in this relationships, are obviously materialistic, it's easier to spot him as the liar irresponsible who doesn't care, and no one notice that the gurl too developed those feelings because she was desperate to have 'something' she liked. I call it 'something' because the person side of 'him', she didn't get to know. so, in away they both developed feelings for 'something' .

When a woman come here and cry for loseing a guy she didn't know, it brings to me the question, what did she lose which makes her cry? obviously not the person. You can't lose something you didn't acknowledge. what was it then?

I have seen relationships which started based on 'Visa or money' for 'looks' and evolved to be very happy love marriages. The thing which brought them together was not a genuine 'look' for love but an obsession or a need which turned to love eventually but most of the time it doesn't turn that way when either of the partners can't seem to find the other one suitable for them or they find a more qualified partner in this area and at this point they dump them.

In otherwords they settled for less, marriages of convenience can be rather comfortable with you've lost all hope of finding a loving worthwhile relationship.

I find that when a person accepts extra-marital relationships as natural and necessary they often have a subscribed view that marriage is for social purposes and duty; while affairs are meant for love (meaning sexual love). In that case I pry more deeply and ask if either relationship is based on love, emotional romantic love and naturally they claim that both are romantic or definately the extra-marital relationship is based on love.

Also I find when a person believes that marriages that start out as marriages of convenience without high level of infatuation to go with it, find that love develops through sharing a life or building a family. These people like the example above cannot dislocate building of a family or the actual reason of the convenient marriage from how the couple later developed a seperate bond.

A married couple needs a foundation of the relationship seperate from the demands of building a family or the demands which lead to a marriage of convenience in order for the marriage to be a viable strong relationship in its own right.

Its like a house of cards otherwise.

When you grow up in a culture that a large percentage of marriages are based on convenience or to build a family you can't understand how a married romantic relationship can be a seperate entity.

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Sinai orchid
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sonomod
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Married 10/14/01, had I-485 Marriage interview in September 12, 2002 after filing the marriage peitition in January 2002.

Recently filed the I-751 in June 2004, waiting for conditional status to removed in order to file N-400.

Lots of restrictions, I am secondary sponsor as a wife. Must continue college and eventually finish my BS. Plus work in order to earn a minuim of a yearly salary.

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