posted
I have been married to an Egyptian man for a year now. We live in the UK and had a email/phone relationship for two years during which time I visited him and he visited the UK twice. I can honestly say that our marriage was not for the papers. My husband is a Coptic Christian and, therefore, doesn't believe in divorce. Also he had a couple of opportunities to marry cousins in Australia and USA. However, although we really loved each other, it simply isn't working. Why? Because we simply have different ideas of what marriage means. It's become obvious that my husband wants a wife who can do all of the things for him which his mother did - clean, cook, be 100% interested in his problems and have a passing interest in mine. Also, instead of relishing our first couple of years of marriage together, getting used to one another, I find myself being being subjected (at least once a week) to verbal abuse because I don't want to have a baby immediately. We talked about this before getting married and we both wanted children, but not straightaway. However, now that we are constantly arguing, I am not even thinking about a baby whereas my husband thinks that our life is boring and a baby would make me happier. I have tried to explain that a baby is the product of love not boredom, but he simply does not understand and says I am selfish.
I honestly beleive that we loved each other when we married. We were like best friends. Telling each other everything. However, now we barely talk, often argue and he says that I am cold. I have become withdrawn, but that's because it is so bad.
What's more, because of some awful things that have happened, my family don't like him anymore - they really loved him in the beginning as he can be so funny and charming. Now the charm only seems to come out for other people's benefit and I feel cheated.
Basically, I want to know whether anyone has found some way to accept another person in such circumstances. I really don't know what to do. How long should I like feeling so depressed, sad and alone. I am not a selfish person, but I need a husband who is a partner. I am working full-time in a stressful job and need emotional support as well as help in the house. Am I simply incompatible with my husband?
Posts: 20 | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sad story. Life in UK is so different and not easy for anyone, maybe he feels a baby would be the start of local family for him, his own unit, which he has not got anymore? Living away from his homeland is a great cultural shock for him, even if you have never noticed the impact. Maybe he is really homesick, cant admit it because it looks weak, and he is blaming you for how he feels? We always hurt the ones we love the most.
Posts: 160 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks for your reply BD. I know it's difficult for him. I recognise that which is why I am still with him despite all of his temper tantrums. I have never experienced such verbal abuse in my life. If we weren't married, I would have been long gone. Don't get me wrong, I would love a baby, but I have been made to feel that my only worth for him is as a mother/servant and baby production machine. I know he is homesick but I have tried my best. We almost always listen to Arabic music and he is always on the computer chatting with people from Egypt and watching Egyptian film. Meanwhile, I am left to read a book or entertain myself. He keeps saying that he is ready for independent life and a family and I am not. However, it's not true. He doesn't want to even tell me when he is going to be home. Don't get me wrong, he doesn't go out but has flexible working times. It seems like a baby is his way of keeping me in the house and making sure that I don't leave him. I am doing my best - trying to learn the language, but I can never be an Egyptian wife which is what I think he needs. I just feel a bit cheated as I was always clear that I could not live in Egypt and he was clear that he was very westernised and wanted to come here. I am really so, so sad and don't know where to go from here.
Posts: 20 | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Almost all western wives of egyptians are confused at times! They love their films & music, love their egyptian food, & have great desire to be recognised as head of the family. Most like to be married to an image of their mother, for routine things, but a tigress for the private things! I suppose its been a bit easier for me living in Egypt so long before I came back to UK. I cook egyptian food on alternate days, try to take an "interest" in the movies - not- and ask him to speak arabic with me as much as possible - we use a mixture of arabic/english. No, you can never be an "egyptian wife", you are not Egyptian! And if he needed one that much, he would have married one. Maybe you are trying hard to be something you know you can never be when you dont really have to?? If he is that westernised as you say, why would he want an Egyptian style wife? ask him what he misses most about Egypt, what movies he is watching and to explain to you what is going on in the movie. We watch funny movies with Adel Imam, they can be a great laugh, and show that you are interested in what makes him tick a bit.
Posts: 160 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks. I don't have any energy at the moment though. I used to love the music and everything, but now it is just something that makes me sad. I need someone to be interested in the things I am watching and doing as well. The problem is that he is not as western as he thought.
Posts: 20 | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Emerald - I have PM-ed you! (click on your profile icon and you will see your PM messages) Posts: 2238 | From: Mother Earth | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Emerald, a lot of what you are describing sounds like normal growing pains when first married. But the verbal abuse is nonnegotiable -- he has to stop that. Does he seem willing to work on *any* relationship issues at all?
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Emerald...... I think the worst thing you could do at this stage would be to have a baby..!! Babies never 'repair' marriages...... and it's unfair to bring a child into a marriage where the husband is abusive....and verbal abuse is as bad as physical.... I speak from experience!!! He needs to have a HUGE change of attitude before you commit yourself to a family.
Posts: 4238 | From: USA | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by EmeraldGreen: I have been married to an Egyptian man for a year now. We live in the UK and had a email/phone relationship for two years during which time I visited him and he visited the UK twice. I can honestly say that our marriage was not for the papers. My husband is a Coptic Christian and, therefore, doesn't believe in divorce. Also he had a couple of opportunities to marry cousins in Australia and USA. However, although we really loved each other, it simply isn't working. Why? Because we simply have different ideas of what marriage means. It's become obvious that my husband wants a wife who can do all of the things for him which his mother did - clean, cook, be 100% interested in his problems and have a passing interest in mine. Also, instead of relishing our first couple of years of marriage together, getting used to one another, I find myself being being subjected (at least once a week) to verbal abuse because I don't want to have a baby immediately. We talked about this before getting married and we both wanted children, but not straightaway. However, now that we are constantly arguing, I am not even thinking about a baby whereas my husband thinks that our life is boring and a baby would make me happier. I have tried to explain that a baby is the product of love not boredom, but he simply does not understand and says I am selfish.
I honestly beleive that we loved each other when we married. We were like best friends. Telling each other everything. However, now we barely talk, often argue and he says that I am cold. I have become withdrawn, but that's because it is so bad.
What's more, because of some awful things that have happened, my family don't like him anymore - they really loved him in the beginning as he can be so funny and charming. Now the charm only seems to come out for other people's benefit and I feel cheated.
Basically, I want to know whether anyone has found some way to accept another person in such circumstances. I really don't know what to do. How long should I like feeling so depressed, sad and alone. I am not a selfish person, but I need a husband who is a partner. I am working full-time in a stressful job and need emotional support as well as help in the house. Am I simply incompatible with my husband?
Marriage is difficult, it isn't supposed to easy and just because you loved each other and got along so well in the beginning doesn't guarantee that you won't have a rocky road. Sounds like you both need to sit down and have some long talks, maybe get away, a vacation for just you two and try to reconnect. I agree, don't have children until you're ready, but don't give up so easily and think you're incompatable. It might just be that this is something that needs more work and takes more patience.
I agree his treatment to you verbally is unacceptable but that can be fixed with understanding and patience if he willing. It does sound like he's homesick, as a person who has left her home for another. He's still trying to adjust and this can be very difficult and he needs your help, even if you feel it's taking away from you now. You are married, you chose him and you married him, so try to make the most. I would question how long you've been married, how long you've tried to make this work, if it hasn't been for a couple of years yet I would say to give it time. Adustment to marriage, family, country, language, culture, etc. is difficult enough when just one adjustment is required. Sounds like he's attempting all at the same time. Give him some time and try to have a rational conversation with him when there is no arguing, when things are calm and peaceful. Perhaps he will 'hear' you better then...if it doesn't work, keep trying. Marriage takes work, if it is super duper easy it's called something else. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I understand all of that - really I do. However,now my husband is either ignoring me or insulting me because I don't want to have a baby now. Apparently, I am not qualified to be a mother in any event. Honestly, although I know he really wants a baby, I'm sure he is latching on to this as this is a topic which will get him sympathy with his family. As much as I am prepared to try, this is a real stumbling block as I can't have a baby to see if it makes things better. Every argument we have these days comes back to this topic and how I am denying his rights to be a father. This generally degenerates into him saying that I am not valuable and he will be a father with or without me. As you can imagine, these kinds of words do nothing to improve my feelings towards him and actually make me relieved that I am not pregnant. Honestly, I don't know what to do and these personal problems are affecting my health and my work.
Posts: 20 | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
someone suggested ; have a rational conversation with him when there is no arguing ... I agreed 100 % with this but when someone says 'I 'll be a father with or without you', I think rational conversations won't help This is rude and cruel But maybe it is said in the middle of a heated conversation and maybe it is just said to hurt.
Posts: 2932 | From: Just now and then | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Emerald, can you get counseling? I doubt your husband would go, but you could. A good counselor could help you with some coping skills, setting boundaries when arguing, that type of thing. (However, find a counselor who understands you are dealing with cultural differences as well). You can't change a person (he will have to do that), but you can change your arguing dynamics.
I had a couple of big arguments when first married with my husband too, that really shocked me and saddened me. There were some serious culture differences I thought I was prepared for, but obviously wasn't. I was able to change the way we argued (which bothered me much more than the underlying argument), and it made worlds of difference.
I say this because if you can get your husband to see that the two of you are on the same side, it makes it easier to deal with these things. I know that's easier said than done when you are in the middle of ongoing conflicts over certain issues. Arguing by definition makes you opponents.
If you can create an atmosphere within the marriage that you are partners facing challenges together, rather than two people facing off against one another, it *will* change a lot of the tone of these arguments. (This is not always easy to do, and can require your getting past some (legitimately) hurt feelings to try and make things better.)
And I'm laying this responsibility on you again, because you can only control *you,* you cannot control him.
Nobody here really can understand what is going on within your marriage. My advice to you is what it is, because you said you two were best friends and I personally believe in trying to make marriage work. And, as Smucks said, marriage can be hard.
But I do want to say that verbal abuse is absolutely wrong no matter what. And you should not put up with it at all. I can't tell if he's really got a mean streak, or if perhaps he just doesn't know how to argue in the Western way. (I'm generalizing, don't kill me!) But *you* know which one it is. Is it hurt feelings/ego/language and cultural differences? Or is he really trying to inflict pain and trying to denigrate you as a human? The first scenario is manageable. I don't have enough experience or expertise on how to handle the second one. If I were faced with something like that, I'd probably leave the marriage.
Just some things to think about. I do wish you the best.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
As much as I agree with what people are saying that you need to talk rationaly it sounds as though it has gone beyond this at the moment and you both need some time out.
From what you say you made it clear to him before you married that whilst you want children, it would not be straight away. You must have also made plans for the things you want to achieve before children came along so how can he say life is boring if you are both working towards this.
Do you think perhaps it would be a good time for him to take a trip home so that you can both get some perspective on things.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes, some time apart would be good. However, if the problem is that if it were just a short time, I would really miss him (regardless of everything). We probably need a longer period of time apart to get over the "missing" and really think things though. I'm not really sure either whether the "nastiness" is a real mean streak or more of a childish "I hate you" reaction or self-defence by attack. It's so scary because I don't want to make the wrong decision. I really appreciate all of your comments - things like this are difficult to talk to, even to very close friends.
Posts: 20 | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Where is your husband and his family from in Egypt? There are certain regional charcteristics in Egyptian men which may explain his behaviour.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by EmeraldGreen: It's so scary.
Try to remove yourself emotionally from it a bit. Look at the big picture (whole lifetime marriage) rather than just a particular fight or a particular issue (baby). Sometimes that helps.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Emerald, there's some great advice from the ladies, especially the counselling and the 'you're on the same side' idea of Trollin's. If you don't think professional counselling is feasible - for him at least - is there an older family member or friend that can listen to the two of you and act as a mediator? There's not a lot of professional marriage counselling in Egypt so he might balk at the idea, it's usually a respected family member who does the job.
The baby issue is essentially cultural...most Egyptians try for babies immediately after marriage for fear that contraception might mess up the system.
Also, I think the insults might be a result of lashing out in a childish way as you pointed out. People often say nasty things they don't mean during an argument.
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Emerald, i think that you should leave that relationship, if you can....... it is slowly killing your spirit
I am an Egyptian woman & I know that Egyptian man are very good actors at first just to win you but they change overnight when they are sure that you are theirs.
People usually stay longer than they should in a bad relationship because they wrongfully believe that they could fix it...... but they are unaware that there is nothing to be fixed, it'sd just not working & it should be abnadoned.
Having a baby wont solve anything..... if he's mean & manipulative to have his way, he wont change.... I think he's doing exactly that. having a baby will complicate matters more & you wont be able to quit this relationship if you want to
Please don't waste your time & enegry with that guy..... life is too short, it's not worth it
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Emerald, You need to see your parish priest about this. If anyone a coptic priest in a western country is aware of the difficulties that can arise in mixed marriages. But the verbal abuse is alarming. Some men (or women) do have personalitydisorders that cannot be ignored and will ruin your life if you let them. Telling you that coptics don't believe in divorce is plain blackmail. A lot of them do and for good reasons even if it means that they can't marry in church again. They will go to church whether married or divorced especially in western communities. If possible try to talk to your parish priest. He may not come up with a solution but can help you to shed some light on your situation. In the end your spouse has to shape up fast or you should let go of him how sad it is and how painfull. You don't want all of you to be unhappy and hurt. Thank God you don't have children yet and please try not to be vulnerable when there is a ray of light in the times to come. Keep strong and save your life. Withdraw and let him face the consequences of his wrong behaviour.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks guys. I am confused and, from seeing the different views everyone has espressed, I see that anyone would have conflicting pulls in this situation. It's funny with the Coptic things because in one argument, my husband can say that I have ruined his life because he won't be able to marry again. Then in another he says that we should go and see the priest as if I don't want kids I am denying him of his marriage rights and it will be grounds for divorce. I have said that, I am prepared to go tosee the priest with him and explain everything. In the next breath, he says he will be a father, with or without me. I am so disappointed that he considers that a husband and wife is not family unit until there are kids. In another breath he can tell me that we will be together for ever and I will never leave him and he will never leave me. Another breath, he will leave alone for ever. Confusion confusion. I would just like to have an idea of which parts of his conversation he actually believes, and which he just says to hurt me. He doesn't seem to realise that his behaviour is pushing me away from him and actually making the baby dream less and less likely. Apparently, because I am 32 now, I should be grateful that someone has married me. Where is the man I married? It's so hard when someone has come to your country and I feel responsible. it's difficult to tell someone to leave, even to have a break, as I know he has nowhere to go. Arghhhhhhh
Posts: 20 | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Consider having these types of conversation when having children. I can understand that you feel responsible but obviously your spouse does not feel the same responsibility towards you. He sounds like a torn man. It should be his way or not at all. Where does that leave you? You are in for a life of either being the doormat or having to set boundaries at any given moment. Discuss a separation with your parish priest and talk openly about the consequences. Some men are not the marrying type and should live alone despite their longing to fullfill the expectations of society. If you don't want to hurt his possibility to stay in the UK you can consider living apart but keeping one adress for legal reasons.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Try this: Tell him how much you care for him Tell him how much you would love to have the same relationship you started with Tell him that to have a baby together you have to both be in a total beautiful state of love Tell him you would love to be in that state and have a baby together Tell him you both need to remember the beautiful times and wonderful emotions you had at the beginning and get into that mood again Tell him : LIFE IS TOO SHORT FOR BITTERNESS Tell him : LIFE COULD BE BEAUTIFUL IF HE JUST STOPPED BEING SOUR AND STARTED BEING LOVING Tell him you do not want to leave him and that you married him out of love not because you are 30 or 32 Take him in your arms and try to understand HIS MENTALITY - YOU MARRIED HIM not another and that is his culture A child is important he needs to be a father Try to put yourself in his shoes
In general, he should be touched by your emotions, and love usually generates love, and affection is contagious, and caring with nice gestures is usually a very good start, and at least if all this does'nt work then, you can go see a priest without any guilt....
I wish you to both remember and relive the love you once shared, and take it from there!
Egyptian culture 101:
'Most' Egyptian men feel very insulted and their dignity is hurt badly, if their wife refuses to have their baby! They have an adoration and a full respect for a 'mother'; refusing to become one tears them apart, thus they become bitter and in some cases aggressive. When you enter a love relationship with an Egyptian man it is so important to understand the way they view 'family'.
Posts: 215 | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
Is it really awful to *delay* having a kid in Egyptian culture? And I'm particularly interested in middle class/upper-middle class families. Just curious.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Coptic that is. Although there is an emphasize on having babies they tend to regulate the number in favour of opportunities and besides I don't believe blackmailing your spouse into having em is part of it.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Almaz: Try this: Tell him how much you care for him Tell him how much you would love to have the same relationship you started with Tell him that to have a baby together you have to both be in a total beautiful state of love Tell him you would love to be in that state and have a baby together Tell him you both need to remember the beautiful times and wonderful emotions you had at the beginning and get into that mood again Tell him : LIFE IS TOO SHORT FOR BITTERNESS Tell him : LIFE COULD BE BEAUTIFUL IF HE JUST STOPPED BEING SOUR AND STARTED BEING LOVING Tell him you do not want to leave him and that you married him out of love not because you are 30 or 32 Take him in your arms and try to understand HIS MENTALITY - YOU MARRIED HIM not another and that is his culture A child is important he needs to be a father Try to put yourself in his shoes
In general, he should be touched by your emotions, and love usually generates love, and affection is contagious, and caring with nice gestures is usually a very good start, and at least if all this does'nt work then, you can go see a priest without any guilt....
I wish you to both remember and relive the love you once shared, and take it from there!
Egyptian culture 101:
'Most' Egyptian men feel very insulted and their dignity is hurt badly, if their wife refuses to have their baby! They have an adoration and a full respect for a 'mother'; refusing to become one tears them apart, thus they become bitter and in some cases aggressive. When you enter a love relationship with an Egyptian man it is so important to understand the way they view 'family'.
I think that others have given good advice but this particularly stands out to me.
I see many similarities in the relationship described and my own and while I spent a long time argueing and getting nowhere, finally I tried this approach and Almaz is right it really does work. I can imagine that my husband would react in a very similar way to your husband regarding this, I nearly replied the other day to this thread saying how to many egyptians the big reason to marry is to have children, as a man he may feel that you are preventing him from being a father, maybe asserting control over him which may result in him feeling demasculinated and so he is angry at you and confused himself and doesnt know what to do (I doubt that he wants to go off and have one anyway, i think they are angry words)
I think he loves you and wants a family but is getting too frustrated, by doing what almaz says you will reassure him that you are not stripping him of his manhood, you would love a child but just want to wait a bit longer, tell him how much you love him but this is about you, not him.
as an egyptian man he may well want to be in control of the relationship to a large extent, he may feel this has been taken away from him, he's homesick and people around him dont understand where he's coming from or why he feels that way, for him it is natural to want kids straight away, for you its not.
I feel its definately a clash of cultures and talking through it with the priest will be good for you both, do you have any egyptian women friends you could talk to?
In the west us women can be very independant and it can be a bit of a shock, marriage to an egyptian man, i think that egyptian women too can be very independant and many are not shrinking violets, they just have different ways of communicating that work better than our western all guns blazing ones , but I think those egy women do get what they want you know Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
really feel for you. i've met a lot of egyptians who think they're really westernized (but most of them don't realize they're comparing themselves to other egyptians) and are shocked that they simply do not cope well with constant compromise and adjustment.
in some ways, i think this is why lots of ladies always advise it's better if the woman moves to egypt rather than the man to the west. the women somehow manage to adjust to changes better and find a support group with other foreign women easier.
from what little you've said, i don't see him changing. when egyptians go abroad, they either embrace the western culture (and go a bit crazy) or they swing the opposite way and get very traditional, usually embracing their religion with a certain fervor that's probably to do with homesickness and trying to duplicate their happy childhood home than actual religious beliefs.
sounds like your husband is of the latter and he's latching on to traditional values of his parents and grandparents. the very thing that he said he wasn't when he claimed to be "western" in his way of thinking.
if you have a child together, expect a chance that he's going to insist on sending him/her to egypt for summers (uk being too corrupt, etc) and then deciding it's better for the child to be educated in egypt altogether.
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
They dont all send their kids back to Egypt for the summer, i know egyptians raising kids in the west. Even my heart jumped reading that Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
sorry wanderer, but i've seen so many 'western' minded guys turn a 180 degrees. she's already mentioning that this man isn't the same person she fell in love with, that he's talking about becoming a father one way or another...aren't you seeing the classic attitude of a coptic man looking for loopholes so the church will annul a marriage? i completely understand his frustrations (having had experience a culture shock more than once in my life). and i get that we all take it out on the person we're closest to sometimes without meaning to. but to be threating to have a child one way or another to your wife? wtf!
if he's acting like this now, she needs to consider the worse case scenario, and that includes him changing his mind and wanting to move back to egypt.
it's one thing when a marriage fails. it's another thing when children are involved and one parent wants to live in another country.
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Since Emerald is dealing with a coptic Egyptian it is not very likely that he should want his children to be raised in Egypt. Most of the time familymembers will congratulate you that you got away. But I do believe this can make the feelings of homesickness even worse. I remember we made plans to move to Egypt at some point but the lack of opportunities for Christians and the low wages even when a home, school and church were covered were a reason to once again try to settle over here despite the feelings of alienation and powerlessness a migrant can encounter. We have holidays instead. And there is the church. Some Egypt in the west for all of the family.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I am still here. I only manage to log on when I am at home. That's why I asked whether I could send emails to a number of you in PMs as I can access my Yahoo mail from home more easily and also from work.
Posts: 20 | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Actually, I'm particularly interested in knowing more about Coptic men and the loopholes they look for to annul a marriage. I must admit, I hadn't met a Copt before my husband and it's still a bit of a mystery to me as he seems to give me opposite views of what is required. My husband seems to be blaming me completely for ruining his life as if we leave each other he won't be able to marry again. However, I understood that if we divorce (the legal marriage which was in the UK) and then I am with someone else, he will be permitted to divorce me in the Coptic Church and allowed to remarry as the reason is adultery and he is the innocent party? I'm very confused. Really, if we can't stay together, I will do all I can to ensure that he can carry on with his life as he wishes, but I would never think about another man until we were divorced. To be honest, I'm totally off men completely. I think I am an extremely bad judge of character. It's a shame really because the Church ahs also been divisive as well. We got married in a Church in the UK and then in the Coptic Church in Egypt. My husband nicely told my parents that memebers of other Churches had not been baptised without a full body baptism. It cause such offence (the way he said it) that my family almost cancelled their plans to come to the Egyptian wedding as they felt totally unwelcome in the Church. I know I am making my husband out to be an awful, awful person. He's not. It's just we are different people and don't seem to be able to find a middle ground. He says I will regret it for the rest of my life if I ask him to leave. My idea really is to give it another year (he has a two-year visa anyway), with no baby and see what the situation is then.
PS It's so nice to chat with people who understand. :-)
Posts: 20 | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
The guy is just being insensitive, coptic or no coptic. If you need to know anything about the coptic church and its ways you need to talk to the abouna or some of the female members helping out in church. Don't get bribed over religion its not worth it and a disgrace. He is in this too you know, don't let him make you take all the responsibility. Where did it say that marital vows include abuse and blame. I can't believe the drama he is giving you. Please try to stay calm en don't take it personal. He is panicking and blaming you for it. Don't accept it. It won't help you out.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
When I mention to my baby's dad ( my ex ) that I would want eventually to adopt one more child, he gets upset and suggests me to have yet another child or 2, or 3 "with him" instead, although we are not together for years.
To me, that's the highest form of expression of love - when a man tells he wants to have a baby with you. In other words, to me if you love someone it's very hard to say no to having a child, because baby is permanent connection and loving someone so deeply makes you want have bunch of kids.
Even though I am no longer with my ex, I can tell you even now after so many years, when we talk about the fact that we have a child, I see a twinkle in his eye, he is so proud of being permanently connected with me, and I also would never abandon my child's dad, because my child is reflection of my love I had for him in the past. So no matter what, child is a huge connection, and even if parents don't live together there is always a memory.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'd still be interested to know more ExptinCAI about what you say about the typical Coptic man looking for loopholes. I know I should ask the priest, but I have continued to go to my Church since the marriage. I have searched a lot on the Internet but am not sure exactly what loopholes exist or not. Funnily enough my husband has been cool and calm for the last few days. If I didn't know better I might think that he had read my post. I asked him to go out on Sunday as I needed some time on my own. He disappeared to the bedroom, at least, at let me have some space (and use the computer). Suddenly I have stopped being angry and just become sad- maybe he is finally realizing that when I say I can't take it anymore, I actually mean it and am not just being dramatic.
It's nice what was said about the memory, but really, if we are not going to stay together, I hope we do not have a baby. If either of us leaves, then I will certainly not want any memories.
Posts: 20 | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hi emerald green...well I don't really want to regurgitate gossip on a public forum, but you know divorce is granted in case of adultery, bigamy and in extreme circumstances. So typically the guy will try to create these extreme circumstances in some way. Not wanting to bear a child sounds like it could quality, especially in Egypt. His comment about having a kid with someone else also sounded like he was threating to commit adultery, which I guess would then allow you to ask the church for divorce. Sounds twisted, but you know. Loopholes.
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
As far as I know, there are three ways to get a divorce if you are in a Coptic marriage: 1- ADULTERY 2- Abandonment 3- Changing sect, from Coptic to Protestant
Egyptian actress Hala Sedky was not able to divorce for 7 years, and there was proof of fraud from the part of her husband, so she finally changed her sect to protestant. She got an ecclesiastical divorce/annulment.
Posts: 215 | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
I think your family is influencing you a bit because they don't like him ( you can change their perception, if you really want ). I am not sure if you can understand me, but when family don't like your lover/husband, they indirectly reinforce negative reactions from you because you want to please your family and not dissapoint them, you also seek their approval. Standing up for him and changing their perception if you really want to be married to him, would mean that you stand up for your choice, decisions, your marriage and yourself as well. This would greatly improve relationship with your husband.
Every time when family says something negative about him, you can tell them 2 - 3 things positive so they keep objectivity. Send what you want to receive only. If you want his understanding, be more understanding. If you want him to be more loving, be more loving. If you want him to be more open minded, be more open minded. We people make errors and bad decisions all the time. The problem arises when we don't take responsibility for it.
I hope you have still some love and affection to try to make your marriage deepER and more meaningful. Hopefully both of you will find a way to apologize for all hurt and missunderstandings and start healing all those wounds from the past. The situation is still not so desperate, Change strategies, communicate more about how he makes you feel when he does so and so. It should start working. If you want a change, be leader for a change, that shows how skilfull you can be, you can use your powers as a woman, and intelligence to find the ways how to make him see any perspective you wish, lead by an example, and let him follow you. You can start by trying to imagine how would you feel if you want to have a child with him, and he tells you - no. That's hurtful. He may think you don't love him really because it's very hard to say no to someone you love when it comes to children.
How would you feel if you live far from your native land? How would you feel when you have to speak with your lover in some other foriegn language but not your mother tonque? How would you feel if you can't get a job you deserve and you went to school for because you are foriegner? How would you feel if you are disliked by family? Re-evaluate again, are you sure you love him, are you sure you tried your best, what do you really want from marriage, are you sure you want to divorce, or is this some temporarily feeling? Many questions, I hope this long reply helps you in any way. Anyways, You know the best.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks for the help. I was asking about the possibilities for my husband and one of his things is that I have ruined his life and that he won't be able to get married again etc. etc. I was interested to know from that perspective. I was baptised in the Coptic Chrich just before oure second marriage. Before that, we got married in the Church here. For the purposes of our Egyptian wedding, it was the civil ceremony within the Chruch wedding here that counted as the necessary legal marriage.
lovingmylife asked whether I love him. The truth is I just don't know. I real, really loved him before we lived together. Some more serious things have happened which my parents found out about, and for that reason, it's not fair to say that they are trying to come between us. I unerstand that they are worried about that as I was too. In respect of that, my husband told me that he confessed and promised in the Church that nothing like that would ever happen again. That was over 6 months ago. However, the verbal abuse continues during arguments. He says that he is a stressed person and doesn't mean what he says. I have never accepted it - in the sense that I argue back. However, over the last week, I have started telling him that he just wants to make me feel like nothing, that I should be grateful at my age to be married, that no-one else would ever have me etc. I have told him that and, like I said at the weekend, I said that I have started to fight my corner in a calm way - telling him I need to be alone and him agreeing to go into the other room without any fuss. As I said this week, he has been cleaning, cooking and all of things he believes are women's work. I like to think that because he says so many things in anger which he doesn't mean that perhaps he thought I was the same and is now realising that I might actually be serious about it.
Posts: 20 | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sounds familiar. You know that when you have a baby, the husband becomes second best! This happens to all women. Children become number 1 priority, so by having a baby now, he will definately feel negelected once it arrives. Take a long hard look at your realtionship, you know.. none of this is your fault, even though it may seem to be. I have been there before. What you need to look at is are you happy... do you want to be having all responsibilties or are you wanting to be with someone who will share? Think now and move out if you can. Dont carry on if you feel resposnible for him and how he feels, he is a big boy!
Posts: 288 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
He seems controling and manipulating. Beware!!! These are deep character traits that counseling will not change. Do you deserve the verbal abuse? Is that respectful to you? Would you allow your best girlfriend to treat you that way? I know it is easy for people not directly involved to give advise. You are dealing with matters of the heart and that makes normally rational people irrational. I have known a few Egyptian men and some of them are VERY childish with a get even mentality. They seem to be spoiled brats, big babies. Is that the norm for Egyptian men?
Posts: 20 | From: everywhere | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic