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Author Topic: Advice for mlebev or anyone else getting married to an Egyptian
akshar
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I agree that no book is going to tell you as much as actually living here. But some people have never been outside their country and they are proposing to set up in Egypt. At least reading these books before hand will give them some much needed background. I read everything I can lay my hands on as I find it all helps but if I had to pick one it would be the fiction book by Ahdaf Soueif. To quote from the blurb
[quote]"In the Eye of the Sun" is a story about growing up, a story about what it is like to be a woman of the East and in the West, a story about the last thirty or so perplexed and bloody years. a story about home. It is the great English novel about Egypt, which is also the great Egyptian novel about England.[quote]

I found it a great help in understanding some of the dynamics that have shaped Egyptian society, her descriptions of police brutality and living in a police state are haunting. But it also explores the differences between East and West from an Egyptian woman's point of view. She lives in London, one of my old syrian friends has met her, she writes in English and her mother translates her novels into Arabic. I totally recommend it in helping you get under the skin of the country before you move there.

I do also agree that Islam makes more sense especially when you live here and see it working. There was a dispute between my husband and some other people about the water and electricity to some land and it was arbitrated and decided by the local sheik. No lawyers involved. I was talking to him about my daughter, she has reached the teenage years and reports back to me on her MSN conversations with her friends back in the UK. It completely horrified me. I don't know if it is true or they are just boasting. I don't like it' I like her living in in an Islamic society and its rules for girls which mean she is safe. My husband then rounded on me and said you agree with so many things about Islam why don't you become a Muslim. Well that shut me up about her [Big Grin] It is something I think about a lot but I had the unfortunate experience to be involved in a cult and this has somewhat shattered my ability to believe in things making any change much more complicated. I envy people who have certainty I certainly do not.

BTW this is a great discussion much better than the norm on ES

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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor

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crisálida
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Its funny, I had assumed that you were Muslim Akshar, I dont know why. Is your husband muslim? your daughter?

I think the thing with religions is we attach labels to them, i think that I thought in a muslim way for a long time before i became a muslim, but i can see why if you've had a bad experience of a cult you would want to stick with yourself - if that makes sense.

I find the worrying thing about young people in the Uk is they are looking up to role models that they dont understand, almost everything is becoming acceptable these days and there are no limits, that is scary

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akshar
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Having been married to a Syrian living in London where he was unable to find work even thought he was a university graduate of Damascus and the Sorbonne I believed if it was goign to work it would only work in Egypt. My Syrian husband died and I often wonder if he would have done in Syria. He was deeply unhappy because he could not be a real man and provide for his family. I earned so much that he could never compete with me. My Egyptian husband was not so Westernised or educated he stood even less chance of getting a job and even more chance of being emasculated by that.

I felt I could adapt to living in Egypt. I had loved it since I was 9, been goign there since 1979 and came from a cosmopolitan enough background to adapt. i love the history and the people and I felt I had come home the first time I landed here. I feel in love with Egypt 20 years before I feel in love with my husband.

I have a child, she is 15 now and bilingual because of her father but mostly because we came here to live. I knwo her father would be so happy she was living in Arab country, speaking Arabic. Just today I got a phone call from one of her uncles and because she wasn't here we could not communicate. He is phoning again tonight when she can translate for us. One of her uncles who does speak English told me how much he admired me for living here and giving my daughter the chance to experience Arab life. OK Egypt is not Syria but it is a lot closer than the UK is lol

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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor

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akshar
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quote:
Originally posted by Wanderer:
Its funny, I had assumed that you were Muslim Akshar, I dont know why. Is your husband Muslim? your daughter?

I think the thing with religions is we attach labels to them, i think that I thought in a Muslim way for a long time before i became a Muslim, but i can see why if you've had a bad experience of a cult you would want to stick with yourself - if that makes sense.

I find the worrying thing about young people in the Uk is they are looking up to role models that they dont understand, almost everything is becoming acceptable these days and there are no limits, that is scary

[Big Grin] that is exactly what my husband means as well. I believe in so much of it but can not make that final leap.

I am soooo lucky that we have found a college course that my daughter can do by correspondence. It is in animal nursing and our local charity ACE are employing her and it has all been approved. So she will end up with a British qualification and Inshahallah by then she will be nearly 19 and a bit more grown up. I can put of the evil moment. By then she might have realized that actually living here she is a lot better off then in the UK. But if she doesn't she will be that bit older and might be able to take care of herself. she might see as you say the role model are not good ones. I do hope so. some of the stuff her friends come up with make my hair stand on end cybersex from one 12 year old!!! Please God it is not true. But with her 15 year old friends the stories about boyfriends and how they receive their parents, drinking. and these are the ones she tells me about. And all from middle class girls with stable family backgrounds. How can you keep your child safe

My husband is Muslim and my daughter and I are both christian

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of_gold
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Oh akshar, I was involved in a type of cult. We were Jesus freaks. This is where I met my x. The belief was that the woman should serve the man and he took it literally. Often telling me that Sarah called Abramham Lord...

I have a 6 year old boy. I have conserns about how it will effect him if I marry a Muslim. But I also want to live my life to the fullest. I would like him to go to school in Europe because I understand that the education is much better in the upper grades. Also, many Americans are so narrow minded and I live in Texas, you see what kind of mind set exsist here in the white house.

My Egyptian friend is open to where we live and travel but he would like to settle in Egypt. He says life is easy there. He has a BA and I think if he came here and got his masters he could get a good job.

What part of Egypt were your husbands from?

--------------------
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton)
Leap and the Net will Appear.

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of_gold
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quote:
I read everything I can lay my hands on as I find it all helps but if I had to pick one it would be the fiction book by Ahdaf Soueif.
What is the name of this book?

You are both from the UK. I understand that the life style in Europe is much more laid back than here in the US. We are such a consumer oriented society.

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akshar
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The Syrian husband was from Damascus, the capital of Syria and had a masters degree from the Sorbonne as well as a BA from Damascus University. The Sorbonne is the French equivalent of Harvard. When we met he had been living out of Syria either in France or UK for 8 years. He spoke, wrote and read Arabic, French and English. The only work he could get in the UK was as a taxi driver and it didnt cover childcare costs.

The Egyptian husband is from the West Bank, Luxor. He speaks English and Arabic and went to the University of Life.

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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor

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of_gold
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My friend is from Al Hema. His degree is in English Lit. He is studing translation. There is a shortage of Arbic translators here. You know we are American, we speak English. [Big Grin] lol

Who knows, there are so many Americans out of work these days. I have a contract position at the moment but I went years without a job.

How is your life style there? Do you have the same accomodations that you would have in UK? What about health care, is it good?

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akshar
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quote:
Originally posted by of_gold:
quote:
I read everything I can lay my hands on as I find it all helps but if I had to pick one it would be the fiction book by Ahdaf Soueif.
What is the name of this book?

You are both from the UK. I understand that the life style in Europe is much more laid back than here in the US. We are such a consumer oriented society.

In the Eye of the Sun

I don't know i think the UK is trying its best to copy America. But it is more multicultural with many different ethnic minorities. For example you can get hold of Halal food easily in most areas. In some towns there are Halal take aways. Where we lived in Ealing there were Polish shops, Japanese shops and Arabic shops because of the large numbers of these nationalities. There are also lots of mosques, I have seen the direction for Mecca in hospitals, schools accommodate fasting pupils. there are Saturday Arabic schools and Islamic schools. Not everywhere and certainly not rural places but you can easily find a town that suits you. But the youth culture is like an American high school

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akshar
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I was going to say about my lifestyle but decided not to as that would give you quite a false impression. I came here with a large amount of cash. Because I have a lot of business experience(I ran my own company in the UK and was also chairman of my Trade Association) and I married a very clever man we have invested wisely and made our business into a big success. Hamdallah we have been blessed. My life style is better than the UK but we are a big exception. I do not know many people out here that are doing as well as us. That is why I said in my advice don't think you can run a business here if you haven't run one back home.

Health care is excellent, if you can pay, there is no insurance. I went and saw a consultant the other day 1 appointment and 2 follow ups.cost me 38LE, about $6 USD

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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor

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of_gold
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Well, I have my own company but it is just me doing contract work. I am making better than the avarage here at the moment. I work online so I am hoping that it turns into something that I can do from anywhere in the world. Except that I don't want to spend the rest of my life in front of the computer. I have told him that I want to make enough money that I can leave Egypt at anytime I choose if we stay there. At one point he told me he would go to Kuwait to make money because he saw it as the problem and wanted to have enough for me to go back and forth as I please. I encourage him not to go because I didn't know anything about Kuwait and was conserned for his safety. I now know better. He has money. I don't know how much but enough that he dosn't have to work. He also has land. But money there compared to money here is a huge difference. I am going back to school this fall for Internationl Studies, probably trade.

Do you mind if I ask what your business is? I hope I am not being to intrusive by asking all these questions.

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crisálida
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my husband is from Cairo and is well educated and travelled. I think the UK is becoming very materialistic and I would definately rather move to a country that had more family values and didnt lock murderers up for 30 days. I have heard that kuwait is a good place to work, so are other arab countries, its a huge step, but one that I would consider, if i was sure of good education for my kids. House prices in the UK are ridiculous and we could get a much nicer place for alot less money elsewhere, but i would feel better with the security of a job first i think. Businesses can take a long time to get off the ground and start making money.
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of_gold
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Bulgaria has cheap real estate and is now part of the EU.

...a side note.

--------------------
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton)
Leap and the Net will Appear.

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Penny
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quote:
Originally posted by akshar:
That is why I said in my advice don't think you can run a business here if you haven't run one back home.


I just wanted to pick up on that point as I see many women here stating their boyfiend/husband is going to get them to run a business. Even if you have had business experience in your home country don't think that will necessarily translate into business experience in Egypt. The whole ethos and the way business is done in Egypt is so different to the West, you need an enormous amount of patience and understanding of the social roles played in business let alone the actual so called rules and regulations. It is very hard for a foreign woman to front a business especially if you don't speak arabic, men on the whole I think still prefer to do business with men so you have got to be happy to accept the your role as being in the background. That can be very hard if you are not adaptable to accepting your role is more supporting than leading even if you are the one that on paper maybe has more qualifications and experience.
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akshar
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Agreed penny my original advice was
quote:
What experience do you have of running a business in your country where you know the rules regulations tax situation law etc. How easy would it be to set up a business from scratch not knowing all of that and with no experience. How soon would it provide you with a living
Your point about men to men business is an addition to that. Often I have to set up and brief my husband and then leave him to it when I would love to be there. And nothing is written down, no progress reports, no plans, they don't work like that but it all seems to work. It took me ages to relax and believe it would happen. Also I find their attitude to future business interesting. when we first started getting bookings for a year ahead my husband found this inexplicable. they just don';t plan thing like that. and trying to get other parts of a tour organised is a nightmare with that attitude. Sometimes I have known we needed donkeys months in advance but can't book them so when it gets nearer the time there are not donkeys!!! So sometimes we have to pay over the odds in order to get one. We have never let a guest down but sometimes I feel like a duck gliding along the water visible to the giants and underneath my legs are going like the clappers dealing with the Egyptians. It has taken ages to get staff that do simple things Ike make beds with top sheets. Stuff you would never have to explain to someone from the UK. and of course the communication problems not speaking Arabic. fortunately I have my daughter to translate as well as my husband and my Arabic has expanded but it still lousy

--------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor

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seabreeze
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quote:
Originally posted by akshar:
I agree that no book is going to tell you as much as actually living here. But some people have never been outside their country and they are proposing to set up in Egypt. At least reading these books before hand will give them some much needed background. I read everything I can lay my hands on as I find it all helps but if I had to pick one it would be the fiction book by Ahdaf Soueif. To quote from the blurb
[quote]"In the Eye of the Sun" is a story about growing up, a story about what it is like to be a woman of the East and in the West, a story about the last thirty or so perplexed and bloody years. a story about home. It is the great English novel about Egypt, which is also the great Egyptian novel about England.[quote]

I found it a great help in understanding some of the dynamics that have shaped Egyptian society, her descriptions of police brutality and living in a police state are haunting. But it also explores the differences between East and West from an Egyptian woman's point of view. She lives in London, one of my old syrian friends has met her, she writes in English and her mother translates her novels into Arabic. I totally recommend it in helping you get under the skin of the country before you move there.


The stories sound interesting, I would like to read them for the entertainment value more than anything. It is nice to read someone elses point of view. I'm sure it's an interesting read. [Smile]
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akshar
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She is a great writer, short listed for the Booker prize with 'Map of Love' I have 3 of her novels. Naguib is also fantastic writer entertaining as well as informative. He won the Noble prize for Literature. I have 5 of his. these are both Egyptian writers but the other books I mentioned by Arabic women writers are good too. If you like reading then it is well worth exploring the world of Arabic writers.

And all with the added bonus of learning so much more about the Arab and Egyptian culture, history, mindset and life.

quote:
Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
quote:
Originally posted by akshar:
I agree that no book is going to tell you as much as actually living here. But some people have never been outside their country and they are proposing to set up in Egypt. At least reading these books before hand will give them some much needed background. I read everything I can lay my hands on as I find it all helps but if I had to pick one it would be the fiction book by Ahdaf Soueif. To quote from the blurb
[quote]"In the Eye of the Sun" is a story about growing up, a story about what it is like to be a woman of the East and in the West, a story about the last thirty or so perplexed and bloody years. a story about home. It is the great English novel about Egypt, which is also the great Egyptian novel about England.[quote]

I found it a great help in understanding some of the dynamics that have shaped Egyptian society, her descriptions of police brutality and living in a police state are haunting. But it also explores the differences between East and West from an Egyptian woman's point of view. She lives in London, one of my old Syrian friends has met her, she writes in English and her mother translates her novels into Arabic. I totally recommend it in helping you get under the skin of the country before you move there.


The stories sound interesting, I would like to read them for the entertainment value more than anything. It is nice to read someone else's point of view. I'm sure it's an interesting read. [Smile]

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ReenaModa831
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Ok...Ladies and Gentlemen.....I would do anything right now.....to be with my love.....he wants me to come to Egypt and have our family.....could I really leave everything I know.....take my 2 children to a far off country....and expect to have peace....love....the man of my dreams.....I always felt Egypt as home....since I was a child.....but really.....I want us all to be safe.....and the middle east sucks right now......what to do.....what to do.....I love this conversation....it touched me......thank you all.
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ReenaModa831
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How does Islam feel about Nanny's.....someone to watch over the kids.......so I can spend time with my love? Is it safe?....I ask again.....
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seabreeze
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quote:
Originally posted by ReenaModa831:
Ok...Ladies and Gentlemen.....I would do anything right now.....to be with my love.....he wants me to come to Egypt and have our family.....could I really leave everything I know.....take my 2 children to a far off country....and expect to have peace....love....the man of my dreams.....I always felt Egypt as home....since I was a child.....but really.....I want us all to be safe.....and the middle east sucks right now......what to do.....what to do.....I love this conversation....it touched me......thank you all.

How old are your kids?
You really want to uproot your kids to a far off foreign country and have a nanny take care of them so you can be with your 'LOVE' ? [Confused] Who lives like that ??

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ReenaModa831
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ok... I'm misunderstood.....I want the experience....I have been nowhere in my life, while loyally taking very good care of my 2 children 10 and 5......all alone.....we enjoy life.....and appreciate difference.....they are very well educated......and like I said......this is my love......and yes....we would like to be able to have a date.....a night alone.....is that wrong....are there not the best schools in Egypt?.....are the people not respectable?....I have not seen a problem yet......but I am looking....my children are my world.....and whatever I choose must pass by them first!......Smuckers.....please.....dont be so abrupt.....you don't know me......I am a good person.....just looking for some intelligent advice....
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akshar
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quote:
Originally posted by ReenaModa831:
How does Islam feel about Nanny's.....someone to watch over the kids.......so I can spend time with my love? Is it safe?....I ask again.....

1) please can you start a new topic with your questions
2) please take all the advice I gave in the original post
3) once you have done that you will see that what you have suggested would be totally abhorrent to any Egyptian. "Leaving the kids with a nanny so you can be with your love."!!!!! [Eek!] Actually I think it is totally abhorrent to anyone Western or Egyptian.

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ReenaModa831
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1) I start the topics I'm interested in...
2) I cant read everything in one night...plus I don't like to be redundant anyway....I am educated as well.....nothing I see here is of any shock....
3) and when you need alone time....what do you do...I get a nanny or family member to watch over the kids...when I go home to make love and scream.....do you do it with them in the other room and with the lights on?

be nice!

From reading your post....you are insecure and scared.....and Christian?......please....I'm just looking to be safe.....within guidelines.....it's not complicated....you should not reply....but thanks for your effort anyway.....Insha'Allah...

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akshar
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Please I do not need these details about your private life and I don't think you should publish them on the internet. I suggest you read the Koran and its guidence about modesty and family life. It should answer your questions. If it doesn't why not go to your mosque and ask them

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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor

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crisálida
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I am guessing that what reena means is babysitters? rather than nannies. I think what she is getting at is if she moves will she get time alone with her partner - ever - if there is no family around, to watch the children for her.

This is a reasonable question if you have been used to alot of free time, perhaps having a family that look after the kids.

Personally I have never had that luxury, my advice would be to get to know your partner more, and his family. If you get to a point when you decide to move there i am sure they would mind the kids while you go out or spend an evening together occasionally (maybe not all night though)

What you describe is life, we all manage to swing from the chandaliers more quietly when we have kids...and neighbours! lol

If you are asking about having a permanent nanny, the whole time, so you can have a lot of free time, i think this is unusual as people have said. Personally I dont think its right either unless it a necessity, but thats just my view - people will disagree.

I do find it strange for this to be your biggest concern about going to Egypt though?

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ReenaModa831
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thank you Wanderer......I was getting frustrated.......the reason for this question....I'm ok about other things......if I was on my own nothing would concern me......but my kids are my world....and I'm not sure if it's even a bright idea....to be considering taking my kids to the middle east.....but I'm trying to be fair.....believe in the good that I've already seen......but I don't know anyone.......family is not close......and I'm curious about how I would be able to have a date with my love.....nothing major......I find it funny that people can talk crap......then say go read the Koran......is this supposed to make me feel better about the fact that......people still think they are better than others.....because of their religion....it's not as much about modesty, but supposed to be about helping and loving one another without stupid judgments......thank God......I was just trying to prove a point anyway......blah blah blah.....thanks for reading this rant
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ReenaModa831
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Ok....so I think I stuck my foot in my mouth......I know I sound rude.....I'm just trying to figure out how to possibly fit in to my loves culture......and I'm not seeing it right now.......I did go purchase a Koran last night....as well as language Cd's....and a book to practice writing......I'm sure that if I get the basics.....I will do much better.....with controlling my attitude....I like this site....and everyone has something constructive to say......most of time....I was reading your post's Akshar......I'm sorry you lost your husband.....I didn't mean to offend you.....it sounds as if you are the one person I should listen to more than anyone regarding this subject......please accept my apology.....God bless you all...
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akshar
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BUMP

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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor

Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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