1. If a father has multi wives, will the son also have multi wives? (like father like son).
2. Since I am a foreigner in Cairo, I must pay higher prices in everything than Egyptians should pay. Will it happen all my life here even I am a wife of an Egyptian man? (what make me happy is when he said to me"nothing expensive for you").
posted
1. who knows I am not aware that anyone has collected statistics on this
2. proabably yes in a shop where you are not known. In Luxor where I live after a while they get to know you and charge you the right price, but after 4 years if I go into a shop where I am not a regualar they will try it on
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
not a must abt multives and u should always know how much it worth the items u buy and not pay 4 more than that,if u need to know i u can pm me anytime
-------------------- islam Posts: 2447 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
1. You need to address this subject with your future husband. If it's a major concern for you you must make sure you will remain his only wife throughout your marriage. I believe it's possible to put something like this in the marriage contract.
2. Of course in the beginning Egyptians will try to scam the hell out of you as they see you are foreign but the longer you live there you will learn the language better and most of all the prices of products - this should give you the best foundation to enjoy shopping like an Egyptian.
Oh and btw, CONGRATULATIONS on the upcoming marriage! All the best! Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by pseudovellum: How can anyone let their husband sleep with another woman in her bed and then come home and sleep with her?
It disgusts me have these women no respect at all?
Disclaimer
Just my opinion
why don't you ask Hilary Clinton, Queen Alexandria. Mrs Mitrand, Duchess of Cornwall, Prince Charles wife etc etc etc. At least a Muslim does it with his wife, doesn't break up his exisitng marraige and the children are secure.
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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But a Muslim man can take only another wife with his first wife's consent. That's why I think it's so important to put a clause in the contract that you don't want any co-wives, Angel Heart.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I've argued this point before, about it being with your wifes consent, but others have said that he does not need the wifes consent. My arguement to them would be that if you are treating them both equally (equal time, equal love, etc etc) then they would both deserve equal truth too, otherwise one has more than the other, as far as I am aware this would be very hard to do.
"... Marry of the women that please you; two, three or four, but if you fear you will not be able to deal justly, then only one..."(An-Nisa 4:3)
This is an answer to a muslim man in the states asking about second wives, I never considered this before, Islamically is this true?:
As I said before, it is considered illegal in many countries to be married to more than one spouse at a time....even if you are a muslim. You must follow the rules of the country you live in. If that is the USA then you would be comitting bigamy which is against the law. As a muslim you are not allowed to break the law to fullfil a religious right....unless the right is a must. Muslim men are not required to or ordered to or obligated to have more than one wife so you must limit yourself to one if you live in a country that makes it illegal. If you live in an Islamic country please be sure its accepted as several of them put quite severe restrictions on who can have more than one wife. Do not make your "2nd wife" just a mistress or girlfriend which is what the state would legally view her as should you die.
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: You know I say whatever rocks your boat.
But a Muslim man can take only another wife with his first wife's consent. That's why I think it's so important to put a clause in the contract that you don't want any co-wives, Angel Heart.
No that is not true.
She can apply for divorce after the event citing it as a reason but she can not stop him doing it or make him renounce number 2. The only clause you can put in is this right to a divorce in the event.
You can not stop him doing it period
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
A Muslim man does not legally need his wife/wives consent to marry another woman, the lack of her/their consent does not make a subsequent marriage invalid. However, morally it would be a good idea, as he is supposed to treat his wife/wives with love and respect, and, if they happen to live close by and he is not someone who goes on business trips for half the year, and he has to share his time equally between his wives (especially the nights), he needs to inform his current wife/wives to let them know where he is on the nights he is not with them.
If he wants to maintain the relationship with his current wife/wives and maintain the trust and their faith in him, he needs at minimum to inform them of what he is doing, and preferably discuss it with them and help them prepare for the eventuality. If they don't agree to living in a polygynous marriage and the man insists on it they can choose to ask for a divorce from him. If a clause has been inserted in the contract that the man agrees not to marry another woman, but he insists on doing so, he breaks the contract and the divorce is automatic and compensation is due.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
Yes but if he's aware from the beginning of the fact that his first wife would never put up with a second wife as this would mean a huge threat to his first marriage by his personal choice.
Arguments, fights and finally a divorce would follow between both spouses. Taking a co-wife would mean he does not treat his first wife fairly. That's what you probably meant by morally, Newcomer.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
newcomer: what do you think about the post i quoted, i have never heard that if a muslim is living in a country where it is illegal then it is not permissable to break the law with an islamic marriage as she will not be recognised as married by her country...is that true?
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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British, Autralian, Canadian and US law recognise only one spouse. Bigamy is punishable by up to seven years in jail.
However, if a husband and his wives settle in one of the above countries ALREADY MARRIED in a country where polygamy is legal, then the country's benefits system recognises his extra wives as dependents and pays them accordingly.
Posts: 215 | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Tigerlily, when I said morally, I meant ethically in order to be open and honest with his current wives. If he expects his wife/wives to be honest with him and respect him, then I believe that he should afford them the same thing.
A Muslim man has a right to be able to marry another woman under Islamic law, and all Muslim women are aware of this. If they feel that they do not wish/would not be able to cope with it, they have the right to ask their prospective husband to agree to it in the marriage contract, but not to take the right away from him. So he can chose to agree to that clause and marry the woman or not. But if he changes his mind later, due to whatever reason, then he is making a choice to break a clause he agreed to in the marriage contract, and his wife then has the choice whether to accept this or not.
It is not treating a wife "unfairly" under Islamic law to marry someone else, fairness is about giving someone what is their right. This was explained a little in this Hadith from 'Aishah, one of the Prophet's wives: "The Messenger of Allah used to treat his wives fairly and proclaim, 'O Allah! This is my division in what I own, so do not blame me for what You own and I do not own.'" This means that the Prophet was fair to his wives in what he had control over, i.e. his time and his money, but that he asked Allah to forgive him for what he couldn't control, i.e. his feelings and the way he interacted with his wives.
Wanderer, as far as I understand, if a Muslim man is already married to a woman under the law of a country that does not permit polygyny, he cannot marry another woman according to the law of the land. If he is married, this wife would be protected by the law of the land and also according to Islamic law (i.e. in Allah's eyes,) if the contract he has with her fulfils the requirements of both sets of laws.
Even though he couldn't marry someone else under the law of that land, he could still marry another woman under Islamic law, and this marriage would be legitimate in Allah's eyes, but not according to the laws of the country. But as the article you quoted points out she would not be regarded as having legal status as his wife in the country they were living in. It could be argued in this case that the man was not being "fair" to his wives, as he was giving one more rights than the other, i.e. the recognition of the state for his marriage, and this would mean that the second wife was not protected legally and would not be given her rights in case of divorce, death, etc.
He could I guess under those circumstances have more than one wife and be treating them equally if he had Islamic marriages with both of them, if they were carried out with a full contract detailing all the rights that a woman would have as his Islamic wife, as this would be viewed as a contract that was agreed between two individuals, and on that basis would carry some weight legally. However, what most of the Muslim men do in the West is to get some local sheikh who agrees with polygyny to officiate at the ceremony, and there is nothing recorded on paper, so the woman has no recourse to anything if the man does not meet his Islamic commitments to her. Her only recourse is then to rely on the fact that Allah is just and He will eventually give her the justice she deserves.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by pseudovellum: How can anyone let their husband sleep with another woman in her bed and then come home and sleep with her?
It disgusts me have these women no respect at all?
Disclaimer
Just my opinion
why don't you ask Hilary Clinton, Queen Alexandria. Mrs Mitrand, Duchess of Cornwall, Prince Charles wife etc etc etc. At least a Muslim does it with his wife, doesn't break up his exisitng marraige and the children are secure.
These women were having affairs so this irrelevant.
My question was
how can any woman sleep with her husband knowing that maybe an hour ago he was having sex with another woman ( his other wife)????
It may be allowed, that is not what I am talking about.
Seriously how would any of you feel regardless if it is permitted or not?
Hypothetically
Would anyone here allow it, even if it were allowed? If you would think about allowing it, what would motivate you to share your husband with another woman? How can you love a man who clearly loves another woman? Posts: 286 | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by pseudovellum: These women were having affairs so this irrelevant.
No it not irrelevant. It is the whole point to my mind. Men through out the ages have been tempted. The West tolerates this with mistresses, love children, affairs, one night stands, open relationships. Islam acknowledges man's weakness and allows him an outlet but only within the sanctity of marriage and commends him to be fair to both women.
quote:How can you love a man who clearly loves another woman?
How naive are you, millions of women have been in this situation.
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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4.3 “And if you fear that you can not act justly among the orphans- then marry those who seem good to you, two, or three, or four, and if you fear that you shall not deal justly (with so many) then (marry) one only….”.
4.127 "and what is recited to you in the book concerning orphan women to whom you do not give what is prescribed for them and yet desire to marry them,"
both these verses are talking about orphan women
not ANY woman.
and the most telling verse
4.129
" and you will NEVER be able to be equitable between the women even if you intend to"
He states categorically the word NEVER.
So in short as far as I can see it says you may take up to 4 ORPHAN women as wives, but as 4.3 says "and if you fear that you shall not deal justly (with so many) then (marry) one only….”
then in 4.129 God himself says
" and you will NEVER be able to be equitable between the women even if you intend to"
So is this God saying yes you may want to take more than one wife, as they all did in those days anyway
BUT!! it is only on condiiton you treat each equally, which he later say's can NEVER happen anyway
so you have to keep only one wife.
Not naive at all
just perplexed at how any woman in this day and age would accept these verses as proof of polygamy and agree to be a co wife?
quote:Originally posted by alma37: Yeah, because in the West, it is perfectly ok to cheat on your wife/husband. It's not like Westerners have any sense of morality anyways.
Ditto that. Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by alma37: Yeah, because in the West, it is perfectly ok to cheat on your wife/husband. It's not like Westerners have any sense of morality anyways.
You have been watching too many Western films if you truly beleive that damming statement. You are too intelligent to come out with this sort of generalisation.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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Hm, Penny, I think it was a sarcastic statement. That's why I agreed to it.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Guess you are going to carry on being perplexed
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
pseudo - to answer your question, no, I couldn't be a second wife unless I was living in a country unable to feed myself and my children and depending on a man was the only way of survival - which I believe is the original intention. In todays world, in the west at least, there is no need for that, so i wouldnt do it, I couldn't share the man I loved.
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
if mine needed another wife he better plan on bein with her cas i would be so gone so fast u wont see the door hittin my assss hit the road jack dontcha come round no more no more no more hit the road jack lol
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by akshar: Guess you are going to carry on being perplexed
yep indeed I am
wanderer I suppose if you had to survive, and was absolutely starving, and you had absolutely NO other option.
Tina your man has just left my house and is on his way to yours. Heat up the bed girl he has had a Viagra or six! Tell him tomorrow same time same place from me please:D Posts: 286 | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Pseudo ~ I'll answer your inquiry... I live in the West, but I would not be able to handle my husband or boyfriend having sex with another woman. Contrary to what people may believe about women in the states, most of us don't "accept" it. I think it just happens so much that people become complacent to it. We may hope that it doesn't happen to us, but we aren't necessarily shocked when we find out that we've been cheated on.
In fact... when I discovered that a past boyfriend was fooling around with someone else, he couldn't understand why I just couldn't be "cool" about it. WHAT? Are you kidding me with this? It was like a bad movie! Sorry, but I didn't want to be one of "the girls."
Posts: 332 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Me too Gail It just seems so weird to accept it.
I had a look around and found this
They say that a man can never treat his wives equally, thus 4:3 means: Don't treat orphans unfairly, by marrying their mothers in order to gain access to the wealth that the orphans will inherit when they come of age.
Then 4:3 changes the topic, mid Ayat and tells men that they can marry up to four free (believing) women, but if they cannot treat them fairly, then they can marry only one.
Then 4:3 goes back to who they are allowed to marry, and says they may also marry Captives (from their Right Hands), but that the injunction from the previous part of the verse still applies.
Ie. Don't mistreat orphans by marrying their mothers to get their wealth >> Men Can marry Believing women; 2 or 3 or 4 >> If you can't treat them all exactly the same (fairly) then they can only marry one. >> Men can also marry their Captives but "treat them fairly" rule still applies.
So I suppose
Men are not allowed to marry wealthy widows if they plan on inheriting the widows wealth and not giving it to the children when the wife dies.
Yes you can marry up to 4 believing wives but only if you can treat each one exactly the same, and as you can't then you are prohibited to marry more than one.
If you are in a war situation and there are many widows you can marry them but as long as you don't take their wealth from their children when she dies.
quote:Originally posted by Angel Heart: 2. Since I am a foreigner in Cairo, I must pay higher prices in everything than Egyptians should pay. Will it happen all my life here even I am a wife of an Egyptian man?
I doubt the fact that you're married to an Egyptian man will have any effect on the prices you're being charged. And I'm curious how you imagine this to work ... I mean, do you intend to wear a T-Shirt saying "I'm married to an Egyptian, please charge me local prices!"?
You don't necessarily have to pay higher prices as a foreigner. If you speak Arabic, if it's obvious to the salespeople that you're living there and know the prices and customs, if you appear self-confident and at ease, you are much less likely to be charged too much. Good luck. Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I avoid the hassle and have the husband purchase as much as possible, of course this cannot always be the case, but when I am covered I blend in very nicely and most don't suspect me of being foreign much. Of course, when I open my mouth I am targeted right away. Basically yes, expect to pay higher prices if it's known you are foreign...you shouldn't be different than the rest of us. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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Thank you very much indeed for your kind attention to my post, and what a very valuable advices you all gave to me.
1. I have talked with him about multi-wives he might have in the future. Recently, he has thinking that he will not get other wives, cause he has bad experience with his step-bro and sister, where till now they fight to each others. But his mom once time told me that she wanted her son has 4 wives, I don't know if it was just a joke or serious, I didn't answer her that time. I will discuss this matter to my lawyer accordingly.
2. When I did shopping with him, he always tell the sellers that "I am his wife". But it didn't work at all. Nice introduction for me .
Posts: 756 | From: ...be solution... | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Don't you think the majority of time that men cheat it's because they are not satisfied at home?
Also, if found out there is a lot of pain involved and often the end of the marriage.
From my perspective this is different than a man having two wives because when a man has more than one wife the wives are basicly giving their blessing to the husband to lay with someone else. Not only blessing it they know when it is happening. Maybe they allow it because of the reason stated above "survival". In this case the women did not marry for love anyway. So sex becomes their duty.
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Angel Heart: 2. When I did shopping with him, he always tell the sellers that "I am his wife". But it didn't work at all. Nice introduction for me .
He also did it to avoid hassle from his own countrymen. If you are declared as 'married' than no one will ask anything.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: Don't you think the majority of time that men cheat it's because they are not satisfied at home?
So who's to blame if things don't go accordingly to their wishes at home?
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: Don't you think the majority of time that men cheat it's because they are not satisfied at home?
So who's to blame if things don't go accordingly to their wishes at home?
Who knows? Could be either, could be both. I think many women marry for the wrong reason then once they have their man they have no desire for him anymore. This could go both ways. It is not only men who cheat.
I am sure there are individules who are just cheaters but my point is that more often they are just people who are frustrated at home.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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Who do you think is easier to go and cheat - men or women?
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Tigerlily, I agree with you that is why I said frustrated people and not frustrated men.
Micky, it is a messed up world and few things are in black and white.
Morals are a variable.
I personally don't think it is moral to fly accross the world and bomb innocent people. On the other hand many find it quite the moral thing to do.
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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