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Originally posted by multisphinx:
If AE were a multi racial as well as todays, that means that they are not simular to libayans, syrian, lebonons, etc. i mean i think syrians lebenese, should be takin out of the picture because they are for sure caucasian.

From my first vist to this website i had made a conclusion that Egypt was not simular to the rest of the Arab world, and that they were different but as i kept readin...

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The beauty of Egyptian people is their exoticness. On one hand Egyptians are Arabs, on the other, they're African, and somewhere inbetween they're European.

What I mean is, this country's population was built on layers and years of ethnic migrations. Egypt's founders were most likely African and close to the modern-day Sudenese in physical appearance. They mixed with their more mediterranean looking neighbors in lower Egypt.

The first mass migration of Syrians into Egypt probably took place around the Middle Kingdom and accelerated into the time of the Hyksos. Many people came as settlers but most probably came as slaves. It didn't matter because after a few centuries they were all Egyptian.

There were some mass migrations of Greeks into lower Egypt starting in the New Kingdom and accelerating in the Ptlomaic period.

The Romans moved more Syrians, Jews, and Greeks into Egypt and gave them land.

Due to the numerous conquests of Egypt by foriegn peoples, Egyptians are exotic. Still, what Egyptians have historically been successful at is Egyptianizing their conquerors. The National identity of Egyptians has historically been so strong that everyone who invades must co-opt Egyptian culture. However, this hasn't been as true for Arabs as it has been for other civilizations. Islamization seems to have supressed to a degree, Egyptian traditional culture and allowed he Arab identity to overshadow the Egyptian one.

Upper Egyptians seem to have mingled the least with foriegnors and have managed to hang onto many ancient traditions. Perhaps you should focus your research more on the Saaidi.

Just my opinion

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Originally posted by multisphinx:
i have been reading past threads, closed threads, new thread, nonsense threads. And from all the reading i got confused with ideas i never heared of or thought existed. My concern is what is the true identity of AE to the modern Egyptions today? I read threads that say modern Eyptions are related in race and look like Syrian, Lebenons, Arabians, maghrebien, Iranins. then i read the Egyption who are have African decent in physical traits are not African. what I mean is i dont understand what most of the people in this forum are to come accross. some try to label AE and egyptions and modern day as what they think but i dont think that is the fact. If AE were a multi racial as well as todays, that means that they are not simular to libayans, syrian, lebonons, etc. i mean i think syrians lebenese, should be takin out of the picture because they are for sure caucasian. Arabian might be similar as well as meghrebian countries, but how? Contries like tunisia, libya, morraco, did not have a civiliztion like the AE did, where they had a such a deep racially mixed root society. As all arabs are different colors and races, Modern Egyptions also have different skin tones but in a racially mixed way, meaning they come in colors of brown, black, and white, but that does not say a race they come form as i understood it form some threads. I mean i don't want to say what i believe anymore because i am trying to get what is true, i know their all this eurocentric and afrocentric shyt, all with opinions, but what are the facts. I am doin a research sudy on the African racial identity and i plan to put Egypt in it because i believe Egypt no matter what any fkd up egyption or eurowhito whatever thinks; is African not buts about it (that is one fact i got staight).

From my first vist to this website i had made a conclusion that Egypt was not simular to the rest of the Arab world, and that they were different but as i kept readin...

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multisphinx, I dont quite understand why you are trying to find the answer to "the African racial identity" on a discussion board about AE. I understand you are including Egypt but you have asked for the opinion regarding North Africa as well. I dont know if you are trying to find a combined "African Identity" or you are interested in the many individual African Identities, but you will find many and varied views on boards like this about other peoples racial identity, more often that not, you will find it does not reflect the true identity of the people themselves, regardless of any affinity one may feel they have.

The simple answer to your question is to ask the people yourself.( Or representitives of these people)

If you are doing a paper on the opinions of others on who we think the Africans identity is then by all means do so, but that is the answer you will get, Our many varied and often heated different opinions.

There are hundreds of Cultural assosiations in Africa, including Egypt who represent many minorities and Indiginouse people, you will find many of them will be happy to respond to your questions, and give you an honest responce as to the National Identity and sometimes oposing many ethnic identities that often exist together in the same country.

I have recieved quick and informative answers to questions I have asked of such organisations.

I can help with some contacts if this is the dirrection you wish to take. If so Email me dirrect.

If so, you may wish to put together some standard questions to ask each group so as to standardise the answers, becuase you may be supprised by te answers in that the concept of race and Racial identity is often not percieved as it is in the western world by many African Indigenous people. The first question before asking for their opinion of racial identity is their defenition of racial identity.

Regards

Ozzy

PS:If you deciide to email, please give it a few days as we are experincing difficultiies here in Spain with internet connections, as a result of overload following the terrorist attack.

Thanks to those who may have spared a thought for the hundreds dead and serously injured. Or supported our protests.

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Originally posted by multisphinx:
i have been reading past threads, closed threads, new thread, nonsense threads. And from all the reading i got confused with ideas i never heared of or thought existed. My concern is what is the true identity of AE to the modern Egyptions today? I read threads that say modern Eyptions are related in race and look like Syrian, Lebenons, Arabians, maghrebien, Iranins. then i read the Egyption who are have African decent in physical traits are not African. what I mean is i dont understand what most of the people in this forum are to come accross. some try to label AE and egyptions and modern day as what they think but i dont think that is the fact. If AE were a multi racial as well as todays, that means that they are not simular to libayans, syrian, lebonons, etc. i mean i think syrians lebenese, should be takin out of the picture because they are for sure caucasian. Arabian might be similar as well as meghrebian countries, but how? Contries like tunisia, libya, morraco, did not have a civiliztion like the AE did, where they had a such a deep racially mixed root society. As all arabs are different colors and races, Modern Egyptions also have different skin tones but in a racially mixed way, meaning they come in colors of brown, black, and white, but that does not say a race they come form as i understood it form some threads. I mean i don't want to say what i believe anymore because i am trying to get what is true, i know their all this eurocentric and afrocentric shyt, all with opinions, but what are the facts. I am doin a research sudy on the African racial identity and i plan to put Egypt in it because i believe Egypt no matter what any fkd up egyption or eurowhito whatever thinks; is African not buts about it (that is one fact i got staight).

From my first vist to this website i had made a conclusion that Egypt was not simular to the rest of the Arab world, and that they were different but as i kept readin...

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I just finished reading The African Origin of Civilization: Myth Or Reality by Cheikh Anta Diop. It is a fascination read I must say. He honestly lays out the facts as he knows and then gives his interpretation of them as well as the "modern eurocentric" interpretation. I Still have to to research some of his sources and feels that he needed more proof supporting his claim that Greeks borrowed heavily from the AE. You should really read this book. After finally reading it (in 3 days) I think there is NO doubt that AE civilization is black African in orgin. He really points out that the ficticious base from which Egyptology arose was purely racially motivated and intended to remove black africa from AE and AE from black africa. Don't take my word on it please read this book for yourself and then you make a decision as to the orgins of the Ancient Egyptians. I would also like to read Mary Lefkowitz book "Not Out Of Africa" to compare her side of the story. Can anyone give me the name of a book that would be great argument against Diops books so that I can compare the it to a diferent point of view. However, I think Diops is very clear on most of his points that it will be very hard to refute or deny his claims.

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Originally posted by Ozzy:

PS:If you deciide to email, please give it a few days as we are experincing difficultiies here in Spain with internet connections, as a result of overload following the terrorist attack.

Thanks to those who may have spared a thought for the hundreds dead and serously injured. Or supported our protests.

[This message has been edited by Ozzy (edited 13 March 2004).]

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My condolences and prayers goes out to Spain in this time of national mourning. Hope they find the goup responsible for this insidious disaster.

Some mixture has occured in the cities and certain parts of Middle Egypt with other foreginers,but overall the modern Egyptian population is on average like the one's in antiquity. To fully answer this question you might have to consult anthropology journals or Mtdna tests that unfortunatley can sometimes be biased.

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Originally posted by ausar:
Well,anthropologically the modern Egyptian population is not much different than the ancient ones. The people who have retained the most traceable elements of ancent Egyptian soceity are the Egyptian peasents in both Upper and Lower Egypt. All you simply have to do is look at the peasents that have never bothered to mix in with the invading conquerors of Egypt.

Some mixture has occured in the cities and certain parts of Middle Egypt with other foreginers,but overall the modern Egyptian population is on average like the one's in antiquity. To fully answer this question you might have to consult anthropology journals or Mtdna tests that unfortunatley can sometimes be biased.

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