The novel takes place during the reign of Akhenaten. It's fiction, so it's perhaps not completely historically accurate, but I'm curious to know whether it's culturally accurate. As in, did the author successfully convey Ancient Egypt living, or did he take too many liberties?

From a fictional standpoint, I enjoyed this novel and would recommend it. I just don't have the background to tell if it paints a true picture of AE or not.

So any opinions from those with better knowlege of Ancient Egypt would be greatly appreciated, as would suggestions of other fictional works I can look for.

What we know of common life comes mostly from papyri,archaeology findings,and from Egyptian literature. Egyptians keep very concise litterature about social conditions of both the elite and the peasents. One story I recommend for the life of a peasent is ''The Eloquent Peasent.''

Could you describe some of the cultural data you gleaned from this book?

Thank you for "The Eloquent Peasent."

I found The Egyptian at my local library. My guess is you'll have best luck finding it at a main branch of an established library or in the fiction section of a university library. It appears to still be in print, and a movie was made of it in 1954.

The main character is a physician named Sinuhe (and he makes reference to being named for the Sinuhe who fled Egypt and lived in foreign lands before returning) so there is much information about temple schools, rituals, surgeries (he specialized in opening the skull and performed brain surgery many times in the text) and such societal constructs as The House of Life (hospital) and The House of Death (morgue) where details about medicine and mummification respectively were included.

Through the course of the novel, Sinuhe mimicked his namesake by leaving Egypt and traveling to different lands, so there are details about Syrians, Hittites, and the island of Crete as seen through the eyes of an educated man.

He went to war with the Egyptian army, invested and made a fortune in merchant vessels, and doctored the "false pharaoh" during the Amun vs. Aton struggles. Many specific details about Ancient Egyptian warfare, medicine, commerce, religion and politics are presented in the text.

I can be even more specific if you would like, with examples straight from the text.

The author apparently did quite a bit of research about the time because he also wrote a play ("Akhnaton"). But since The Egyptian is fiction, he may have taken many liberties for the sake of his story, and he had no reason to include any of his research materials as a bibliography for me to go through.

Thanks again for your help.

(PS I feel compelled to mention that I'm looking for this information out of my own curiosity, and that I am NOT begging for help on my homework!)

Thanks for the responses.

Mimmi: I recently purchased Midaq Alley by Mahfouz but have not read it yet--it's on my list behind a few other titles. I just finished Zanouba by Out el Kouloub, first published in French in 1947, and thoroughly enjoyed it. It's not about AE but rather last century Cairo.

Osiris II and Artemi: Thanks for your opinions. Your comments bring me to another subject, following:

It sounds as though you are willing to allow an author some leeway in historical fact provided the writing and the story itself is good.

It seems to me that there is so much...if not controversy, then difference of opinions within Egyptology, that in a fictional work set in AE, a little bending of the facts is okay and could still be considered "authentic."

I imagine you will be both fasinated and disturbed by Midaq Alley because this is the reaction I got from reaching the story. Interesting characters with a dark sinister feel to the book.

I have recently read the book "The Egyptian" by Mika Waltari and found it most engaging. I have also seen the film and was bowled over by the wonderful performances from Edmund Purdom and Sinue and the actor who played Akhenaton. I found, however, that the book had so much more depth, it was better than the film by far. I am so glad they made it when they did, though. If they had done it today Hollywood would have butchered the wonderful work of Mika Waltari. Really, can you imagine Ben Affleck as Sinue? Or J-Lo as Nefernefernefer? No, I doubt you can.

Just one dispute though - one person mentioned the use of the Ankh as a religous symbol, both in the book and the film. Doubtless Waltair may have twisted the truth a little, and I am no expert, but I am sure the Ankh has featured in some of the surviving carvings of Akhenaton in worship of the sun-god - in particular one carving in which the Ankh (or the "cross of life" as Akhenaton calls it in the book and the filn) is hovering towards Akhenaton, through the rays of "Aton"m or the sun. Almost as if Aton himself was "giving" the cross of life to Akhenaton. Isn't that strange?

Anyway, on to your last comment, kaytie, I do not think anyone can truly say that something "isn't like Ancient Egypt". In the end, we weren't there, so we can never know for sure, can we? Also, if a book is well written then it is a story in it's own right. I would certaintly never throw away a book simply for authenticity issues - it's like a commited "Trekkie" abandoning Star Trek simply because one episode didn't fit in with the rest of the "canon", as it were. And as for Waltari's book, there aren't any "gaping" gaps in his information. On the contrary, his writings bring alive Ancient Egypt in a way I had never thought possible.

But, if you're looking for stories written by an author with good background knowledge, apparantly Wilbur Smith is a good one. I've never read any of his stories, but a friend tells me that many of his books (nearly all based in Ancient Egypt) are read by critics trying to slip him up on the facts, and so his writing has to be very well-researched indeed. But, of course, as with all writers he may bend the facts a little... but that's why it's called fiction.

In the end, if Waltari's book brings people into the fascinating world of Ancient Egypt, they can never be a bad thing. And it is, if course, based on a real person, who really lived in Egyptian times...

I'll say no more.

*

Oh, and by the way. Hello. My first post on this board... I do hope I've made an impression. Oh, and by the by, kaytie, what did you think of that lovely scene where Akhenaton kept changing the subject when Horemheb was trying to persuade him to let Egypt go to war? Wadn't it brilliant? I do love the character of Akhenaton. Poor, mad, confused man.

------------------
"These little grains of sand will outlive every man alive and every man that ever will be alive. Immortality? I hold it in my hand. Only the little grains of sand will never die." - Quote from "The Egyptian", a film based on the book by Mika Waltari.

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
Welcome aboard,HoVia. Hopefully you can add more to the conversations of ancient Egypt. This board is in of real need of people who know the workings of Egyptology.

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I'm glad there is such consistancy in the world--I wondered how long it would take Wally to post something that would turn a light-hearted discussion to a moment of "truth" about the White Man's snub of the Black civilization. C'mon, Wally! EVERYTHING doesn't have to be an intentional slur to Black Africa...

quote:

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Originally posted by Osiris II:

I'm glad there is such consistancy in the world--I wondered how long it would take Wally to post something that would turn a light-hearted discussion to a moment of "truth" about the White Man's snub of the Black civilization. C'mon, Wally! EVERYTHING doesn't have to be an intentional slur to Black Africa...

[This message has been edited by Osiris II).]

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"The workings of "Egyptology" indeed...
Mika Waltari, along with H. Rider Haggard and Edgar Rice Burroughs, the authors who wrote such classics as "She" and "Tarzan" and "King Solomon's Mines" , romantic novels celebrating the western world's domination over the "dark continent" where whenever you find a civilization amongst these "primitive peoples" it is controlled by white people!!! And the "Egyptians" of course are Aryans! Edmund Purdom and Victor Mature portraying ancient Africans!
Are you merely trying to be diplomatic or you simply just don't know any better???"

Ok, I'm not sure if this is a slur on me or not. But listen. I'm no expert on Egyptology, I don't pretend to be, but I know a lot more than most of my age (which, by the way, is just gone 13) about AE, having been obsessed with it since I was five years old. And I never said anything about the film being highyl accurate - I just think it is an extremely entertaining film with very good acting. Alright, Victor Mature, I know, was a bit grating as Horemheb, but I didn't mind terribly.

And, ok, I think you, Wally may be going a bit over the top. The things done to black africa were terrible, but Waltari NEVER states that any Egyptian is white skinned. It's just Hollywood which did that. And, as a matter of fact, the black oppression, as I understand it, has nothing to do with the AE in which "The Egyptian" was set - in fact, they believed the Earth to go no furthur than the islands they knew of - in which no white people (Europeans) inhabited.

But for me, Egyptology is the gods, the myths, the rituals of the society - NOT hot debates over politics. Mummification? I could probably do one myself, if I had the right equipment. Tutenkhamen? I could set out almost every theory as to how he died, outline the rumours of Carter's robbing of the grave of the said boy king. The Pyramids? I could tell you about the people who built them, what Egyptologists know of their diet and lifestyle.

But I never claimed to be a politician.

*

"The workings of "Egyptology" indeed...
Mika Waltari, along with H. Rider Haggard and Edgar Rice Burroughs, the authors who wrote such classics as "She" and "Tarzan" and "King Solomon's Mines" , romantic novels celebrating the western world's domination over the "dark continent" where whenever you find a civilization amongst these "primitive peoples" it is controlled by white people!!! And the "Egyptians" of course are Aryans! Edmund Purdom and Victor Mature portraying ancient Africans!
Are you merely trying to be diplomatic or you simply just don't know any better???"

Ok, I'm not sure if this is a slur on me or not. But listen. I'm no expert on Egyptology, I don't pretend to be, but I know a lot more than most of my age (which, by the way, is just gone 13) about AE, having been obsessed with it since I was five years old. And I never said anything about the film being highyl accurate - I just think it is an extremely entertaining film with very good acting. Alright, Victor Mature, I know, was a bit grating as Horemheb, but I didn't mind terribly.

And, ok, I think you, Wally may be going a bit over the top. The things done to black africa were terrible, but Waltari NEVER states that any Egyptian is white skinned. It's just Hollywood which did that. And, as a matter of fact, the black oppression, as I understand it, has nothing to do with the AE in which "The Egyptian" was set - in fact, they believed the Earth to go no furthur than the islands they knew of - in which no white people (Europeans) inhabited.

But for me, Egyptology is the gods, the myths, the rituals of the society - NOT hot debates over politics. Mummification? I could probably do one myself, if I had the right equipment. Tutenkhamen? I could set out almost every theory as to how he died, outline the rumours of Carter's robbing of the grave of the said boy king. The Pyramids? I could tell you about the people who built them, what Egyptologists know of their diet and lifestyle.

But I never claimed to be a politician.

*

My apologies, Wally, if I seem a bit fiery. Just making my mark on the board. *Wink*.

"The workings of "Egyptology" indeed...
Mika Waltari, along with H. Rider Haggard and Edgar Rice Burroughs, the authors who wrote such classics as "She" and "Tarzan" and "King Solomon's Mines" , romantic novels celebrating the western world's domination over the "dark continent" where whenever you find a civilization amongst these "primitive peoples" it is controlled by white people!!! And the "Egyptians" of course are Aryans! Edmund Purdom and Victor Mature portraying ancient Africans!
Are you merely trying to be diplomatic or you simply just don't know any better???"

Ok, I'm not sure if this is a slur on me or not. But listen. I'm no expert on Egyptology, I don't pretend to be, but I know a lot more than most of my age (which, by the way, is just gone 13) about AE, having been obsessed with it since I was five years old. And I never said anything about the film being highyl accurate - I just think it is an extremely entertaining film with very good acting. Alright, Victor Mature, I know, was a bit grating as Horemheb, but I didn't mind terribly.

And, ok, I think you, Wally may be going a bit over the top. The things done to black africa were terrible, but Waltari NEVER states that any Egyptian is white skinned. It's just Hollywood which did that. And, as a matter of fact, the black oppression, as I understand it, has nothing to do with the AE in which "The Egyptian" was set - in fact, they believed the Earth to go no furthur than the islands they knew of - in which no white people (Europeans) inhabited.

But for me, Egyptology is the gods, the myths, the rituals of the society - NOT hot debates over politics. Mummification? I could probably do one myself, if I had the right equipment. Tutenkhamen? I could set out almost every theory as to how he died, outline the rumours of Carter's robbing of the grave of the said boy king. The Pyramids? I could tell you about the people who built them, what Egyptologists know of their diet and lifestyle.

But I never claimed to be a politician.

*

My apologies, Wally, if I seem a bit fiery. Just making my mark on the board. *Wink*.

You can check the archives on various debates I have had with other people on this subject. My responce to them is that Egyptians were diverse people with cultural affinities with African people. Many varied from light to black in southern Egypt. Much like in modern Egypt you will find the same variation.

I would like some discussion that relates to the religion,culture,and traditions of the ancient Egyptians instead of heated discussion about their ethnicity.

I will state,however,I believe that AE soceity had a strong African cultural base,and originally did originate in African soil. Most mainstream Egyptologist concur with this notion. You won't find too many still endorsing the ''Dyanstic''race concept unless Sir Fliners Petrie rises back from the dead.

quote:

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Originally posted by Osiris II:
And, by the way, why do you name yourself after an African hero?
As far as I am concerned, my choice of a name to identify myself has nothing to do with "an African Hero". It is the name of a god of ancient Egypt. I admire his traits, and I am fascinated by his story, or myth, as told in ancient Egyptian writings. In making my choice of a name, I was in no way influenced by beliefs, only admiration.
Calling Osiris an African hero is in error, by the way. Hero suggests a larger-than-life MORTAL. Osiris was a god.

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According to famous Coptic scholar - Emile Amelineau designates the first Black race to occupy Egypt by the name Anu. He shows that it came slowly down the Nile and founded the cities of Esneh, Erment, Qouch, and Heliopolis, for, as he says: All those cities have the characteristic symbol which serves to denote the name Anu.

To Amelineau we also owe the discovery of Osiris' tomb at Abydos, thanks to which Osiris could no longer be considered a mythical hero but an historic personage, an initial ancestor of the Pharaohs, a Black ancestor, as was his sister, Isis.

I shall look for a story by Wilbur Smith--your description of his readers was particularly amusing.

I would also like to recommend Ancient Egyptian Literature: An Anthology translated by John L. Foster. Though he includes only excerpts of some longer works, the Foster focuses on recreating the poetry of the works after a literal translation is completed.

The problem I have with this is that Foster can't but help infuse the texts with his own "person," meaning his background will creep into the poetry of the Ancient Egyptians and possibly taint it with modern sensibilities.

quote:

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I would like some discussion that relates to the religion,culture,and traditions of the ancient Egyptians instead of heated discussion about their ethnicity.

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For example Paco Rabanne claims that he can remember being the priest Pa-Nehesy and killing Tutankaten.

We may still learn a lot though, from new discoveries, dna - when Hawass permits it - and simple deduction as in Ahmed Osman's "Out of Egypt", and Graham Phillips "Act of God" which explains what may have happened to establish Akhenaten and Atenism.

Joan Davis based her novels on memories of her past lives in Egypt, and then there is the case of Omm Sety.

I have the film of The Egyptian on tape, and was watching some of it this morning. Whatever the Hollywood exagerations, it does help to recapture the mood and life of Ancient Egypt.

quote:

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Originally posted by HoVis:
Hi kaytie.

I have recently read the book "The Egyptian" by Mika Waltari and found it most engaging. I have also seen the film and was bowled over by the wonderful performances from Edmund Purdom and Sinue and the actor who played Akhenaton. I found, however, that the book had so much more depth, it was better than the film by far. I am so glad they made it when they did, though. If they had done it today Hollywood would have butchered the wonderful work of Mika Waltari. Really, can you imagine Ben Affleck as Sinue? Or J-Lo as Nefernefernefer? No, I doubt you can.

Just one dispute though - one person mentioned the use of the Ankh as a religous symbol, both in the book and the film. Doubtless Waltair may have twisted the truth a little, and I am no expert, but I am sure the Ankh has featured in some of the surviving carvings of Akhenaton in worship of the sun-god - in particular one carving in which the Ankh (or the "cross of life" as Akhenaton calls it in the book and the filn) is hovering towards Akhenaton, through the rays of "Aton"m or the sun. Almost as if Aton himself was "giving" the cross of life to Akhenaton. Isn't that strange?

Anyway, on to your last comment, kaytie, I do not think anyone can truly say that something "isn't like Ancient Egypt". In the end, we weren't there, so we can never know for sure, can we? Also, if a book is well written then it is a story in it's own right. I would certaintly never throw away a book simply for authenticity issues - it's like a commited "Trekkie" abandoning Star Trek simply because one episode didn't fit in with the rest of the "canon", as it were. And as for Waltari's book, there aren't any "gaping" gaps in his information. On the contrary, his writings bring alive Ancient Egypt in a way I had never thought possible.

But, if you're looking for stories written by an author with good background knowledge, apparantly Wilbur Smith is a good one. I've never read any of his stories, but a friend tells me that many of his books (nearly all based in Ancient Egypt) are read by critics trying to slip him up on the facts, and so his writing has to be very well-researched indeed. But, of course, as with all writers he may bend the facts a little... but that's why it's called fiction.

In the end, if Waltari's book brings people into the fascinating world of Ancient Egypt, they can never be a bad thing. And it is, if course, based on a real person, who really lived in Egyptian times...

I'll say no more.

*

Oh, and by the way. Hello. My first post on this board... I do hope I've made an impression. Oh, and by the by, kaytie, what did you think of that lovely scene where Akhenaton kept changing the subject when Horemheb was trying to persuade him to let Egypt go to war? Wadn't it brilliant? I do love the character of Akhenaton. Poor, mad, confused man.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Malcolm:
Can you really be sure that you weren't there? An intense interest in any particular place and age, usually indicates some past life presence.

For example Paco Rabanne claims that he can remember being the priest Pa-Nehesy and killing Tutankaten.

We may still learn a lot though, from new discoveries, dna - when Hawass permits it - and simple deduction as in Ahmed Osman's "Out of Egypt", and Graham Phillips "Act of God" which explains what may have happened to establish Akhenaten and Atenism.

Joan Davis based her novels on memories of her past lives in Egypt, and then there is the case of Omm Sety.

I have the film of The Egyptian on tape, and was watching some of it this morning. Whatever the Hollywood exagerations, it does help to recapture the mood and life of Ancient Egypt.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Osiris II:
Wally, can you offer me any recognized source for thinking Osiris was, at one time, a human?
Although his tomb has been found, it is one in only several locations. All stories concerning his are Egyptian myth. Although he is referred to as being previously a human, several diffent sites in Egypt claim to have been a burial of different body parts, there is no found burial site that can be attributed to Osiris as a human.
If you have different information, I would most likely to read it so I can be more currant.

Thanks,

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b) However, it is true to say that it was very definitely believed that Osiris was a real person who was King of Egypt, just in the same way that Christians believe Jesus to be a real person.
ref: http://www.ra-horakhty.co.uk/magic/the_relegion_of_thebs.htm

Jesus was very much a "real" person, but exactly who was Jesus? The word Jesus is synonymous with "mesiah"- messenger.Was Jesus the person the jews disowned? Or was he someone else? What's controversial is rather "he" was the true son of God, the living God in the flesh, the "Messiah" , another Prophet of Righteousness. None of the historians that lived during the time of his supposed life, Philo Judaeus, Justus of Tiberias or Flavius Josephus, wrote on single thing about him. Others claim because he was just an ordinary man. And we know that crucifixions were very common during the Roman period, any of those hundreds of people crucified could have been this man called Jesus, whose to say.

I've also heard, no matter how fartfetched, claims that King Tut was Jesus and that the Hebrew claims of him moving to Egypt as a child, stemmed from stories of this child hood prince. Wally you're the language expert, does Tut-Ankh-Amen, translate to "the annointed one" or the "Living Image of the Lord". I mean the Biblical accounts claim he was of royal blood.

There are approximately 16 crucified saviors at different times throughout history, and I've often wondered if these were all borrowed stories from the first known "Osiris" its like they all died the same way, and all come from immaculate conception, with a virgin mother like Isis.

quote:

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Originally posted by homeylu:
Originally posted by Wally
[b]However, it is true to say that it was very definitely believed that Osiris was a real person who was King of Egypt, just in the same way that Christians believe Jesus to be a real person.

Jesus was very much a "real" person, but exactly who was Jesus? The word Jesus is synonymous with "mesiah"- messenger.Was Jesus the person the jews disowned? Or was he someone else? What's controversial is rather "he" was the true son of God, the living God in the flesh, the "Messiah" , another Prophet of Righteousness. None of the historians that lived during the time of his supposed life, Philo Judaeus, Justus of Tiberias or Flavius Josephus, wrote on single thing about him. Others claim because he was just an ordinary man. And we know that crucifixions were very common during the Roman period, any of those hundreds of people crucified could have been this man called Jesus, whose to say.

I've also heard, no matter how fartfetched, claims that King Tut was Jesus and that the Hebrew claims of him moving to Egypt as a child, stemmed from stories of this child hood prince. Wally you're the language expert, does Tut-Ankh-Amen, translate to "the annointed one" or the "Living Image of the Lord". I mean the Biblical accounts claim he was of royal blood.

There are approximately 16 crucified saviors at different times throughout history, and I've often wondered if these were all borrowed stories from the first known "Osiris" its like they all died the same way, and all come from immaculate conception, with a virgin mother like Isis.

I've always been fascinated with how Biblical accounts are to Egyptian so-called "mythology".[/B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by kaytie:
Has anyone read the novel The Egyptian by Finnish author Mika Waltari? It was written in the 1930s but not published until 1945 due to WWII.

The novel takes place during the reign of Akhenaten. It's fiction, so it's perhaps not completely historically accurate, but I'm curious to know whether it's culturally accurate. As in, did the author successfully convey Ancient Egypt living, or did he take too many liberties?

From a fictional standpoint, I enjoyed this novel and would recommend it. I just don't have the background to tell if it paints a true picture of AE or not.

So any opinions from those with better knowlege of Ancient Egypt would be greatly appreciated, as would suggestions of other fictional works I can look for.

Thanks for your time,
kaytie

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quote:

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Originally posted by Osiris II:
Sorry, Wally, but after reading all of the sources you provide to prove that Osiris was a living human, I remain unconvinced. As far as I can tell from my reading, Osiris was a myth. Ancient Egyptians believed he was human at one time, and this belief was well-established at the time. But any factual, excavated, "hold-in-your-hand" evidence is lacking.
Until some firm evidence proves otherwise, I will continue in my original statement, that Osiris was not human, but a god.

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"Herodotus also claims that Menkaura's daughter committed suicide, and that he was more popular with the Egyptians than either his father or his grandfather. This is borne out by scarabs dating from the Twenty-sixth Dynasty, which suggest that he was still worshipped some 2,000 years after his death. Tales from the Late Period record him as a just ruler."

The worship of Imhotep is common knowledge, I think.

quote:

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Originally posted by kaytie:
Has anyone read the novel The Egyptian by Finnish author Mika Waltari? It was written in the 1930s but not published until 1945 due to WWII.
The novel takes place during the reign of Akhenaten. It's fiction, so it's perhaps not completely historically accurate, but I'm curious to know whether it's culturally accurate. As in, did the author successfully convey Ancient Egypt living, or did he take too many liberties?
From a fictional standpoint, I enjoyed this novel and would recommend it. I just don't have the background to tell if it paints a true picture of AE or not.
So any opinions from those with better knowlege of Ancient Egypt would be greatly appreciated, as would suggestions of other fictional works I can look for.
Thanks for your time,
kaytie

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Creating a Past Which Never Existed

The novel "The Egyptian" came out in the United States in 1949 and immediately became a bestseller, and for two basic reasons; 1) it was sexually titillating and 2) it stroked the Aryan ego by creating a past which never existed for them. Certainly no African anyway, who reads this novel about an ancient African culture, would find this novel "enjoyable." You only have to get to page 8! -

Page 8: "only a Negro or a dirty Syrian does that in the street (urinates), an Egyptian goes between walls." (Now, Syria I know, but where is this land of 'Negro?')

Page 21: "One of the Negroes came over from the acacia bushes, lifted Ptahor in his arms and would have carried him to his chair, for it was bedtime...Thothmes and I drove the Negro off with sticks..."

Page 43: "Syrians and wealthy Negroes rubbed shoulders with Egyptians unabashed."

Page 47: "The last I remember of that place is a vicious kick from a Negro and a lump I got..."

Page 66: "mercenaries at the barracks - Egyptians, Syrians, Negroes, and Shardanas."
(Again, Waltari "informs" us "discreetly" that Egyptians and Negroes are not the same, but the Negroes still don't have a country to name them after. He would later on use the code-word 'Nubian.')

Heeeere's Aunt Jamima!

Page 160: "A big Negress (from Negressland?), whose breasts hung down to her belly like black cooking pots..."

Oops!

Page 109: "I should explain first of all that the Red Lands differ from the Black Lands in every particular...the Red Lands differs from Egypt." (Now, remember, he's not talking about the desert, but about Syria, land of the fertile crescent, of the Tigris, Euphrates, and Orontes rivers, of rich green agricultural lands, and where the desert of stony plains occupies only the south-eastern part of the country. So he's not talking about Red
land but about Red country and people. --fact is, there's more desert in Sudan! And we know to whom Africans are referring to when they use the term 'Red people.' I doubt that Waltari realized what he has written here.)

Ikhnaton's "Civil Rights" movement...

Page 279: "All was permitted and there was no difference between Egyptian and Negro." (Of course there isn't, but this is not what he means here. He is being condescending - we know what he means.)

...resulting in the Aryan's greatest fears

"In testimony of this the court ladies admitted Nubians to their houses, shook out there new summer dresses, and enjoyed the virility of the black men and the sour, blood smell of their bodies." (Is this clown writing about Ancient Egypt or the Post-bellum southern United States?)

It is clear that Mika Waltari was aware of the audience he was targeting with this crap. The same audience that sees no contradiction in "Tarzan," "She," "Sheena", or an Aryan "Egypt" that never existed.

quote:

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Originally posted by kaytie:
Through the course of the novel, Sinuhe mimicked his namesake by leaving Egypt and traveling to different lands, so there are details about Syrians, Hittites, and the island of Crete as seen through the eyes of an educated man.

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Tomb scene with Nenu,a Nubian archer, show him and his Egyptian wife. The scene dates back to the 6th dyansty. Let me also emphasize there was little difference between southern Upper Egypt and Lower Nubia. I have pointed this out on other posts.

Anyway,thanks for pointing this racist profaganda out,but one again it does not suprise me at all.

Regarding namesakes - when a parent intentionally names a child after another person, that person is the namesake. So if I was named after my mother, she'd be my namesake. There's a good definition at dictionary.com.

Sinuhe stated in the first few pages of The Egyptian that his mother intentionally named him after the Sinuhe from "The Tale of Sinuhe," making that character his namesake. I no longer have the book (libary copy) so I can't give the specific page number.

My comment had nothing to do with the meaning of the the name.

Thanks again,
Kaytie

quote:

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Originally posted by kaytie:

Sinuhe stated in the first few pages of The Egyptian that his mother intentionally named him after the Sinuhe from "The Tale of Sinuhe," making that character his namesake. I no longer have the book (libary copy) so I can't give the specific page number.

My comment had nothing to do with the meaning of the the name.

Thanks again,
Kaytie

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quote:

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Originally posted by Osiris II:
Wally has said:
You are, of course, free to believe whatever you choose to believe.
Thank you, Wally. Does that also mean that I have the right to laugh at your so-called "authorities" when rambling on about a real Osiris?
Your comments are so typical--if your ideas are subject to question, or your supreme information ignored, you bring in the spector of the white man's ignorance and subjegation of the black.
Again, thank you so much for giving me the right to believe what I wish.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Osiris II:
I think you need to clarify your thinking, Wally. You have told us that an Egyptian god, Osiris, was, at one time, a human being. Now we're informed that Osiris was, indeed, a god, but an African god. My intention in taking that name had nothing at all to do with any concept of a god, except on my part to use a name that I considered applicable to an ancient Egyptian forum. For you to question my purpose in using such a name borders on the rude--why, may I ask, have you chosen to use "Wally"? Same thing applies to us both--because we wanted to. 'Nuff said...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Osiris II:
I think you need to clarify your thinking, Wally. You have told us that an Egyptian god, Osiris, was, at one time, a human being. Now we're informed that Osiris was, indeed, a god, but an African god. My intention in taking that name had nothing at all to do with any concept of a god, except on my part to use a name that I considered applicable to an ancient Egyptian forum. For you to question my purpose in using such a name borders on the rude--why, may I ask, have you chosen to use "Wally"? Same thing applies to us both--because we wanted to. 'Nuff said...

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I believe it was Ancient Egyptian legend, that Osiris (Ausar) was once a living person, who was eventually mutilated by his brother Set into fourteen pieces. Anyone who knows much about Ancient Egypt pharaonic concept, would not object to this. It was an Ancient Egyptian and African custom to use previous rulers as gods or divine beings. In Osiris' case, he became the Underworld God. His wife Isis reportedly built a monument telling the story of Osiris' killing. In conclusion, I don't see how Osiris' (Ausar's) transition from a living person ( as first ruler of Egypt) to a God, is the invention of Wally's! If we are to hold true the translations of AE inscriptions of their Gods, and how their Pharaoh's upon death were transformed divine powers, then it is fair to say that Osiris was at one point a living person too.