...
EgyptSearch Forums Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» EgyptSearch Forums » Egyptology » Letters to the Dead

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Letters to the Dead
ausar
Member
Member # 1797

Rate Member
Icon 5 posted      Profile for ausar   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A common pratice amung non-elite Egyptians in communicating with their ancestors was the Letters to the Dead. Even after the deceased pass on the the land of the blessed it was stil believed that the akhu of the deceased could be communicated with. You might see assorted things written on little offering bowls which requested certain things from the akhu. Simple requests or just confirmtation that things were okay in the present world.


What does everybody think about this pratice. Amung the rural Egyptians today a similar pratice exists where it's believed every Friday a spirt[Akhu] visits the grave to communicate with a loved one. Food and drink are left as offerings.



Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kem-Au
Member
Member # 1820

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Kem-Au     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ausar:
A common pratice amung non-elite Egyptians in communicating with their ancestors was the Letters to the Dead. Even after the deceased pass on the the land of the blessed it was stil believed that the akhu of the deceased could be communicated with. You might see assorted things written on little offering bowls which requested certain things from the akhu. Simple requests or just confirmtation that things were okay in the present world.


What does everybody think about this pratice. Amung the rural Egyptians today a similar pratice exists where it's believed every Friday a spirt[Akhu] visits the grave to communicate with a loved one. Food and drink are left as offerings.



This is one of the more fascinating rituals having to do with AE. I can't help but wonder where this practise originated and how it became so wide spread.


Posts: 1038 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Osiris II
Member
Member # 3079

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Osiris II     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Some of the letters are really fascinating. I recall one asking a dead wife if it was all right for the widower to re-marry!
I, too, would like to know how this practise started. Any thought on it, Ausar?

Posts: 174 | From: Long Beach, CA U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ausar
Member
Member # 1797

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for ausar   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The earliest letters date to around the Old Kingdom period,but probabaly the pratice has it's roots further back in time. Not really sure the exact date of the first reception of such Letters to the Dead. All I can say is similar pratices exist even in modern times with rural Egyptians.



Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Automatik
Member
Member # 4457

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Automatik   Author's Homepage         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That helps explain the oranges thing too - many in that family are unable to read or write. Is visiting the dead to talk to them the same as writing to them?
Posts: 2235 | From: Jail | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ausar
Member
Member # 1797

Rate Member
Icon 10 posted      Profile for ausar   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes, in Middle and Upper Egypt it's called Et-tala where every Friday a family will visit their ancestors graves to talk to them. In AE it's believed that a person's Ba had to be nourished,so this ritual takes it's place.


Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keino
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ausar:
A common pratice amung non-elite Egyptians in communicating with their ancestors was the Letters to the Dead. Even after the deceased pass on the the land of the blessed it was stil believed that the akhu of the deceased could be communicated with. You might see assorted things written on little offering bowls which requested certain things from the akhu. Simple requests or just confirmtation that things were okay in the present world.


What does everybody think about this pratice. Amung the rural Egyptians today a similar pratice exists where it's believed every Friday a spirt[Akhu] visits the grave to communicate with a loved one. Food and drink are left as offerings.



This is interesting! I think you posted something similar to this some months ago. This practice is still prevalent in countries like Haiti and one can finds traits of it throughout the Caribbean Jamaica, Bahamas, ect...I for one can remember hearing stories of how, if you want something you can write a letter to your dead grandparent or parent and ask them for financial and other forms of blessings. This practice is on the low because its is considered anti-christian and is highly "negative" in the bahamas. I remeber it going something like, "If you want to be more successful in business, and for guidance and protection then write a letter to a dead loved one but do not dot I's or cross T's. Is this strictly African? I really think so.

Also in many Caribbean countries it is believed that the dead's spirit will not "walk", leave the body, or be aware that they have passed on until three days after death. I would love to study more of the residual cultural aspects of present day egypt and the best way to do this is to live amongst them.


IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
cassia
Member
Member # 4594

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for cassia     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This makes perfect sense. Honouring the akhu or "blessed dead" (as well as the sebau or "spiritual teachers") is widely done - and not only by "non-Elite" Egyptians.

Writing words to the akhu in the form of letters also makes perfect sense in AE.

This topic properly belongs in the "Egyptian Mysteries System", for this is a true manifestation of AE mysteries. It speaks to a very specific and ancient Kemetic philosophy and belief regarding the spiritual world.


Posts: 82 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ausar
Member
Member # 1797

Rate Member
Icon 3 posted      Profile for ausar   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ancestor veneration was the central theme to most festivals in ancient Kmt[Egypt]. You had one celebration called the ''Beautiful Feast of the Valley'' where Kemetians visited their ancestors grave to venerate their long departed ankhu. Still continues to this day in rural parts of Egypt.


Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
cassia
Member
Member # 4594

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for cassia     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Communicating with the "ba"?
"Soul" in translation for some ... "psyche" being a better translation for the Copts ... any particular Arabic word - or a particular word in any of the regional dialects used today?

The ba was (and is, obviously) the individual personality of the person - all the stuff about him/her that distinguishes him/her from everyone else. To quote, "It ws the Ba which revisited the world of the living, travelled across the sky with the sun god's boat and anxiously witnessed the weighing of the heart in the underworld (of his/her descendants, I guess). ... Nevertheless, the Ba always returned to the body in the tomb; indeed Chapter 89 of the "Book of the Dead" is entitled "Spell to cause the Ba to be reunited with its corpse in the necropolis, suggesting that if the Ba did not return willingly, it would be coerced."

This is the falcon body with a human head, and the more individualistic in pictures and amulets, the better. (None found before Tutankhaman, though.)

Yet it was the "ka", the life force, that accepted the spiritual essence of food offerings.

So, visiting the graves would be a holdover from communicating with the ba, and feeding the ka.
Quite appropriate.

(Quote above, & excellent ba pic - p.68, "Amulets of Ancient Egypt", by Carol Andrews.)

Contemporary Kemetic recreationalist groups, who basically do much the same thing, purport that the ancestor's spirit is a step closer to God/Allah/the Divine source of all because being already in the spiritual realm, they are thus closer to the ear of God, as it were.

(NB - There are books and books debating the minutia of what the divisions of a man is, so the above was just a generalization - if its about to open a debate, lets open a new thread please?)

"Letters to the Dead" also opens up the closely related topics of the heka of the "name" and the heka of the "word".

Ausar, you mentioned somewhere something about funeral rites. More please?

[This message has been edited by cassia (edited 01 July 2004).]


Posts: 82 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ausar
Member
Member # 1797

Rate Member
Icon 4 posted      Profile for ausar   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes,the Opening of the Mouth was a rite preformed which a wab priest would take an adze and touch portions of the body to release the ka.

The funeral rites would usually take about 40 days and even today in Egypt the rituals preformed today also take about 40 days. At the funeral you will often see women wail ripping their clothes off while placing mud on their head. Clearly a leftover from AE times.

In modern Egypt the Egyptian peasents call the soul Karineh and Karina which are supposed to be a double of a person that was born with them. These come in assorte colors.

Also when a person dies one of the village gets a Sheikh to ritualy wash the body from a sacred pool of water which is also a rite that goes back to antiquity.



Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
cassia
Member
Member # 4594

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for cassia     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"In modern Egypt the Egyptian peasents call the soul Karineh and Karina which are supposed to be a double of a person that was born with them."

Oooh, I'm intrigued. More please?
"Karineh / Karina" - masculine & feminine versions of the same word? What does the word mean? Where does the word come from - like a particular dialect?

"These come in assorte colors."
Fascinating! What are the colours and what do the colours mean? And are the colours reflected in clothing or anything else?

Also when a person dies one of the village gets a Sheikh to ritualy wash the body from a sacred pool of water which is also a rite that goes back to antiquity.

And then he has to purify himself, no doubt. Is natron still used at all?
(And for that matter, I heard natron stocks were all but used up - thus rare. True?)


Posts: 82 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
cassia
Member
Member # 4594

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for cassia     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hello!
Where'd everyone go?!?

Posts: 82 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | EgyptSearch!

(c) 2015 EgyptSearch.com

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3