quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil Euro:
Stop using Van Sertima as a source, you idiot. "Mauros" simply means "dark". It can refer to hair, eyes or skin, and it's usually relative to the pigmentation of the people using it. English surnames such as "Moore" and "Morris" are derived from that word, and were originally applied to swarthy Englishmen.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Roy_2k5:
You were proven an idiot in several discussions yet you decide to call others idiots. What a hypocrite.

Take a look at Dictionary.com:

"[Middle English More, from Old French, from Medieval Latin Mrus, from Latin Maurus, Mauritanian, from Greek Mauros.]"

Idiot, Mauros was originally a Greek worder designated to dark individuals. I doubt they will call the 'Caucasoid' North Africans Moorish since they have similar complexion.

---

A perusal of MacRitchie's Ancient and Modern Britons will show
that surnames with a variant of Moor are indicative of an
ancestor who in fact was a Moor.

quote:

---

Originally posted by HERU:
Alfonso X (1252-1284): : "All the Moorish soldiers were dressed with silk and black wool that had been forcibly acquired; the reins of their horses were like fire; their black faces were like pitch and the most handsome of them was like a cooking pan; thus their eyes shone like flames; their horses fast as leopards...The vile people of Africa who were not used to kindness...are now exalted 'Poor Spain. Your death was so afflicted...."

It's pretty hard explaining this away isn't it? I've noticed eurocentrics like yourself (and the person you cited) don't mind discrediting their own scholars when it comes to ethnohistory.

---

quote:

---

"Black" didn't always have the meaning it does today. [Irish people with dark hair and complexions were once called "black Irish".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Black Irish are a red-herring.

The Moor: Light of Europe 's Dark Age," informs us that the English word "Moor" originally comes from the Greek adjective "Mauros," which literally means "black" or very dark in color. [b]The Romans would later adopt the word as a reference for the black-skinned inhabitants they encountered in Africa. Again, we recall that it was the ancient Romans who called the entire region of northwestern Africa Mauretania. Needless to say, this translates from the Latin as "the land of the black-skinned people".

Moor is simply a European reference to Black Africans expanded to include Islamic(s) in Europe in general. [/B]

---

The Black Irish and Black Dutch, supposed Iberian immigrants to
those countries, are irrelevent to the quote which says nothing
about dark hair or dark complexion but does say pitch black faces
like a frying pan. That aint off white, thats as black as you can get baby!

Hint: He came from Spain and is Santa's helper.

You will find something interesting about him.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Roy_2k5:
Quiz: Has anyone heard of Zwarte Pieten?

Hint: He came from Spain and is Santa's helper.

You will find something interesting about him.

[This message has been edited by Roy_2k5 (edited 26 January 2005).]

---

Yeah, good ole Black Pete. Werent some of the black people
of the Netherlands up in arms because they felt Black Pete was
a negative stereotype?

It seems that blacks who are minorities are ashamed of black
images that arent just black overed copies of their white hosts.

Take the original Aunt Jemima icon that Black Americans
protested out of existence, while Black Caribbeans who are
the majority population in their island countries admire
the self same icon of the black woman in calico dress and
headwrap which is a prominent feature in their plastic and
textile arts like cookie jars and dolls for instance.

What I see as very important is that Black Pete is a Moor from Spain. He not only has jet black skin, but full lips and wooly hair. Black Pete is seen as a Negroid in the Netherlands, long before Western Europe imported African slaves or knew of Africa.

quote:

---

A perusal of MacRitchie's Ancient and Modern Britons will show
that surnames with a variant of Moor are indicative of an
ancestor who in fact was a Moor.

---

Or, will he be a fool, and continue to beat head agains the wall with the Moors as fully caucasoid, howler?

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
Yeah, good ole Black Pete. Werent some of the black people
of the Netherlands up in arms because they felt Black Pete was
a negative stereotype?

It seems that blacks who are minorities are ashamed of black
images that arent just black overed copies of their white hosts.

Take the original Aunt Jemima icon that Black Americans
protested out of existence, while Black Caribbeans who are
the majority population in their island countries admire
the self same icon of the black woman in calico dress and
headwrap which is a prominent feature in their plastic and
textile arts like cookie jars and dolls for instance.

---

Not sure what you mean here? The origianal Aunt Jemima, Uncle ben, etc were nothing to be proud of, nor are the modern ones. They were simply representations of the mammy and the coon, like Florida Evans from Good Times or just about anyone from What's Happening. Their facial features were extremely racist, though they look more like real people today.

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Proving: That all that it takes to destroy your ridiculous rantings is a direct quote from a dictionary.

---

I said "Moor" was used in reference to many different people. Your source says "Moor" was used in reference to many different people. All you did was prove me right. As to the actual Islamic Moors of Spain, I'll trust the professional opinion of a credentialed physical anthropologist:

"In one sense the word 'Moor' means the Mohammedan Berbers and Arabs of north-western Africa, with some Syrians, who conquered most of Spain in the eighth century and dominated the country for hundreds of years, leaving behind some magnificent examples of their architecture as a lasting memorial of their presence. These so-called 'Moors' were far in advance of any of the peoples of northern Europe at that time, not only in architecture but also in literature, science, technology, industry, and agriculture; and their civilization had a permanent influence on Spain. They were Europids, unhybridized with members of any other race. The Berbers were (and are) Mediterranids, probably with some admixture from the Cromagnid subrace of ancient times. The Arabs were Orientalids, the Syrians probably of mixed Orientalid and Armenoid stock. The skin of Orientalids and of some Berbers darkens readily under the influence of sunlight, and many of them become quite dark in the exposed parts of the body. The association of dark skin with the name of 'Moors' resulted eventually in the same term being applied to Negrids."

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Proving: That all that it takes to destroy your ridiculous rantings is a direct quote from a dictionary.

---

I said "Moor" was used in reference to many different people. Your source says "Moor" was used in reference to many different people. All you did was prove me right. As to the actual Islamic Moors of Spain, I'll trust the professional opinion of a credentialed physical anthropologist:

"In one sense the word 'Moor' means the Mohammedan Berbers and Arabs of north-western Africa, with some Syrians, who conquered most of Spain in the eighth century and dominated the country for hundreds of years, leaving behind some magnificent examples of their architecture as a lasting memorial of their presence. These so-called 'Moors' were far in advance of any of the peoples of northern Europe at that time, not only in architecture but also in literature, science, technology, industry, and agriculture; and their civilization had a permanent influence on Spain. They were Europids, unhybridized with members of any other race. The Berbers were (and are) Mediterranids, probably with some admixture from the Cromagnid subrace of ancient times. The Arabs were Orientalids, the Syrians probably of mixed Orientalid and Armenoid stock. The skin of Orientalids and of some Berbers darkens readily under the influence of sunlight, and many of them become quite dark in the exposed parts of the body. The association of dark skin with the name of 'Moors' resulted eventually in the same term being applied to Negrids."

quote:

---

Originally posted by S.Mohammad:
Rephrase:

Stop using Carleton Coon as a source, you idiot.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
A perusal of MacRitchie's Ancient and Modern Britons will show
that surnames with a variant of Moor are indicative of an
ancestor who in fact was a Moor.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
A perusal of MacRitchie's Ancient and Modern Britons will show
that surnames with a variant of Moor are indicative of an
ancestor who in fact was a Moor.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
the quote which says nothing
about dark hair or dark complexion but does say pitch black faces
like a frying pan.

---

So what? . . .

"Using similar faulty methods, Afrocentrists might as well say Jews in the Middle Ages were 'black' because Joseph ben Nathan in the 13th century quoted his father as saying 'we Jews come from a pure, white source, and so our faces are black.' Of course to do this would be to ignore the fact that in medieval Europe as in ancient Greece, black often meant 'swarthy.' Likewise, Afrocentrists could insist that 12th-century Turks were 'black' on the basis of their being exaggerated as 'blacker than pitch or ink' in the epic Chanson d'Aspremont. But we know on the basis of physical remains and ample pictorial evidence that neither the Jews nor Turks were actually 'black' in medieval times."

quote:

---

I said "Moor" was used in reference to many different people.

---

quote:

---

Your source says "Moor" was used in reference to many different people.

---

quote:

---

All you did was prove me right.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Self stroking is self delusion. You are liar and a coward. You get no respect from others because you don't respect yourself.

---

Rasol, I must say you pack a hell of a punch! To think that "Negro" and "Moor" were synonyms in the Middle Ages; this during the era of Moorish Spain...Mr.Evil your comeback is not convincing. How on earth you manage to gather that Rasol "proved you right" is rather scary.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil Euro:
Coon was a world-class physical anthropologist whose observational data is still valid today. Van Sertima is a propagandist and ideologue.

---

Coon's data is NOT valid today as most if not all has been debunked. he was a polygenist who believed races evolved from varying mixtures with homo erectus, who the hell believes that **** today? Coon said so called 'caucasoids' were the most evolved race while Negroids to him were NOT, more debunked bullshit from your prized world class physical anthropologist. His work was used by segregationists and white racists whom he did NOT rebuke, yeah thats very world class when your work is used by white supremacists and racists and you do nothing to stop it. You can take Coon's work and shov it up your ass, from his bs that Fulanis, Masai, Tutsi and Bahima are all 'skeletally Mediterranean' with dark skin, yes that kind of **** is still world class and very valid today.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil Euro:
Utter nonsense that could only come from an Afro-source like David MacRitchie.

---

Race & Ethnicity
in the Old Norse World
by Rorik Radford

In the 1999 edition of Viator (vol. 30) the prominent Old Norse scholar Jenny Jochens published an insightful and carefully researched article on the subject of "Race and Ethnicity in the Old Norse World." In hopes of casting a little light on this traditionally heat-seeking topic, I will summarize Jochens' points here.

quote:

---

3. By the Saga Age, swarthy complexions and features were not unknown in the North, but they were considered aesthetic faults. "Geirmundar ßáttr heljarskins" tells of Geirmundr and Hámundr, twin sons of a minor 9th century Norwegian king who were born with skin so dark they were called heljarskin--Hel-Skin; Black as Hel. The infants' mother exchanged them for the fair-skinned child of a slave, but the boys' noble lineage was apparent in their bearing and actions and their father, King Hjörr, readily acknowledged his paternity. Although most sources say the twins were the sons of Hjörr's Norwegian queen, one passage in Landnámabók says the king had brought back a captive princess from a war in Bjarmaland (now Finland), and the dark-skinned boys were born to this woman.

---

quote:

---

4.The term "svartr" (black) is commonly ascribed in the sagas to people with dark coloring, contrasted with "hvítr" (white) for those of fair complexion and features. These terms do not refer to race in the modern sense--black Africans were never described as svartr, but as blámenn (blue men). Still, the svartr/hvítr distinction shows an early attunement to physical differences based on coloring.

---

quote:

---

5. Some Saga Age Norwegians were apparently born with dark features without outside genetic influence. A well-known example is Hálfdan svarti (the Black), the father of King Harald Finehair. Likewise, Gísli Súrsson is described in his saga as a "ma?r svartr," a dark man. More often, however, dark features were attributed to foreign or even trollish genetic intervention.

---

quote:

---

6. The most famous white/black dichotomy in the sagas involves the family of Egill Skallagrímsson. Egill's father is introduced as "a dark and ugly man like his forefathers," although his brother ?órólfr was "the most handsome of men." Skallagrím's descendants, the Myramenn, are said to include both the fairest and ugliest of men. The origin of the dark side of the family line is implied in the byname of Skallagrím's great uncle, Hallbjörn hálftroll. Even though dark features might be attributed to supernatural influence, people exhibiting this trait were still considered to be Norwegians, and their intermarriage with fair- skinned Norse presented no special issues.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
You are obviously used to lieing to yourself but you stated that the Moors were fully caucasoid

. . .

No, it acknolwedges that the term was sometimes used synonymously with Negro. Giving the lie to your entire premise.

---

You need a lesson in logic. The premise that "Islamic Moors were fully Caucasoid" and the fact that "the term was sometimes used synonymously with Negro" are not mutually exclusive. What I said was that 'Moor' means 'dark', and can be used to refer to people of many different complexions. Your source confirmed that. It so happens that the Islamic Moors were named such because they came from the old Roman province of Mauretania in extreme NW Africa, not because they were Negroes:

quote:

---

You are liar and a coward.

---

quote:

---

"Ad hominem fallacies indicate intellectual bankruptcy."

---

Noting that fact is not ad hominem. It is merely ad rem ad referendum....TO THE POINT.

quote:

---

. It so happens that the Islamic Moors were named such because they came from the old Roman province of Mauretania

---

Mauretania means Land of the Blacks.

EuroDisney: You actually run a website? And on this website you discuss history, ethnology, geography? People visit this site for other than grins? ? ?

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Mauretania means Land of the Blacks.

---

'Mauretania' means 'Land of the Mauri', an indigenous coastal Berber tribe who were only black in your wildest fantasies.

quote:

---

EuroDisney: You actually run a website? And on this website you discuss history, ethnology, geography? People visit this site for other than grins? ? ?

---

Indeed. And the only negative feedback I get is from Afrocentrics, White Supremacists and people who write like dyslexic third-graders. So consider yourself in good company.

quote:

---

'Mauretania' means 'Land of the Mauri', an indigenous coastal Berber tribe

---

North African, Berber," 1390, from O.Fr. More, from M.L. Morus, from L. Maurus "inhabitant of Mauritania" (northwest Africa, a region now corresponding to northern Algeria and Morocco), from Gk. Mauros, perhaps a native name, or else cognate with mauros "black" (but this adj. only appears in late Gk. and may as well be from the people's name as the reverse). Being a dark people in relation to Europeans, their name in the Middle Ages was a synonym for "Negro;" later (16c.-17c.) used indiscriminately of Muslims (Persians, Arabs, etc.) but especially those in India.

As for your website, it is no wonder that you waste your time debating 12 year olds given your own juvenile semantics.

You traffic in self delusion for racially neurotic Southern European arrested adolescents.

Likely most of the children you....'debate' will grow out of their ethnnocentric insecurities. But you will still be there, citing false information (Carleton Coon), and distorting data. Twisting no-ones mind ultimately, except your own.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil Euro:
Indeed. And the only negative feedback I get is from Afrocentrics, White Supremacists and people who write like dyslexic third-graders. So consider yourself in good company.

---

Race & Ethnicity
in the Old Norse World
by Rorik Radford

In the 1999 edition of Viator (vol. 30) the prominent Old Norse scholar Jenny Jochens published an insightful and carefully researched article on the subject of "Race and Ethnicity in the Old Norse World." In hopes of casting a little light on this traditionally heat-seeking topic, I will summarize Jochens' points here.

quote:

---

3. By the Saga Age, swarthy complexions and features were not unknown in the North, but they were considered aesthetic faults. "Geirmundar ßáttr heljarskins" tells of Geirmundr and Hámundr, twin sons of a minor 9th century Norwegian king who were born with skin so dark they were called heljarskin--Hel-Skin; Black as Hel. The infants' mother exchanged them for the fair-skinned child of a slave, but the boys' noble lineage was apparent in their bearing and actions and their father, King Hjörr, readily acknowledged his paternity. Although most sources say the twins were the sons of Hjörr's Norwegian queen, one passage in Landnámabók says the king had brought back a captive princess from a war in Bjarmaland (now Finland), and the dark-skinned boys were born to this woman.

---

quote:

---

4.The term "svartr" (black) is commonly ascribed in the sagas to people with dark coloring, contrasted with "hvítr" (white) for those of fair complexion and features. These terms do not refer to race in the modern sense--black Africans were never described as svartr, but as blámenn (blue men). Still, the svartr/hvítr distinction shows an early attunement to physical differences based on coloring.

---

quote:

---

5. Some Saga Age Norwegians were apparently born with dark features without outside genetic influence. A well-known example is Hálfdan svarti (the Black), the father of King Harald Finehair. Likewise, Gísli Súrsson is described in his saga as a "ma?r svartr," a dark man. More often, however, dark features were attributed to foreign or even trollish genetic intervention.

---

quote:

---

6. The most famous white/black dichotomy in the sagas involves the family of Egill Skallagrímsson. Egill's father is introduced as "a dark and ugly man like his forefathers," although his brother ?órólfr was "the most handsome of men." Skallagrím's descendants, the Myramenn, are said to include both the fairest and ugliest of men. The origin of the dark side of the family line is implied in the byname of Skallagrím's great uncle, Hallbjörn hálftroll. Even though dark features might be attributed to supernatural influence, people exhibiting this trait were still considered to be Norwegians, and their intermarriage with fair- skinned Norse presented no special issues.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
North African, Berber," 1390, from O.Fr. More, from M.L. Morus, from L. Maurus "inhabitant of Mauritania" (northwest Africa, a region now corresponding to northern Algeria and Morocco), from Gk. Mauros, perhaps a native name, or else cognate with mauros "black" (but this adj. only appears in late Gk. and may as well be from the people's name as the reverse). Being a dark people in relation to Europeans, their name in the Middle Ages was a synonym for "Negro;" later (16c.-17c.) used indiscriminately of Muslims (Persians, Arabs, etc.) but especially those in India.

---

You keep repeating that same passage, which you've hilariously misunderstood. Allow me to break it down for you:

"Being a dark people [they're talking about the Berber Mauri] in relation to Europeans [not in absolute terms], their name [again, the Mauri] in the Middle Ages was ['used as'] a synonym for Negro [because Negroes are a dark people too]; later (16c.-17c.) ['it was also'] used indiscriminately of Muslims (Persians, Arabs, etc.) but especially those in India [confirming that it simply means dark and not Negro]."

quote:

---

you waste your time debating 12 year olds

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by HERU:
Evil Euro, you don't have much to say about this. Why is that?

---

Because like most of the "evidence" you idiots post, it refutes itself:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil Euro:
Because like most of the "evidence" you idiots post, it refutes itself:

"4.The term 'svartr' (black) is commonly ascribed in the sagas to people with dark coloring, contrasted with 'hvítr' (white) for those of fair complexion and features. [b]These terms do not refer to race in the modern sense--black Africans were never described as svartr, but as blámenn (blue men). Still, the svartr/hvítr distinction shows an early attunement to physical differences based on coloring."[/B]

---

quote:

---

Even though dark features might be attributed to supernatural influence, people exhibiting this trait were still considered to be Norwegians, and their intermarriage with fair- skinned Norse presented no special issues.

---

He asks if Tutsi vary from Hutu systematically in the direction of Europeans and concludes that they do not.

Do Southern Europeans vary from Nordics systematically in the direction of Black Africans?

Compared to Nordics, Southern Europeans would tend towards Black Africans in that they exhibit....

* darker skin.
* darker hair
* darker eyes
* curlier hair
* thicker hair
* thicker lips.
* everted lips.
* greater bone density.

From: The Story Behind the Amazing Success of Black Athletes, by Jon Entine
Many southern Europeans, who are disproportionately stand-outs in running, trace a significant percentage of their genes to Africa as a result of interbreeding.

From: Battling Osteoporosis - Genetics plays a role in the risk profile of men. Whites are at higher risk than Blacks. And Scandinavians tend to have a higher risk than Southern Europeans.
- Nursing Spectrum.

Of course we have the genetic evidence (E3 african haplotypes), Benin sickle cell, and historical evidence - Moorish conquest, Egypto-Nubian colonisation, is it even necessary to go thru the motions of continued denial of Southern European diversity?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Horemheb:
Roy, the terms Black Dutch and Black Irish are vague with respect to their origins. We have thousands here in the US, including one part of my own family, who use the term but it has nothing to do with race. In Pennsylvania and parts of Oklahoma it is used to refer to Germans. It may well have started out as one thing but eveolved into another.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by HERU:
Did you miss that part?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Do Southern Europeans vary from Nordics systematically in the direction of Black Africans?

Compared to Nordics, Southern Europeans would tend towards Black Africans in that they exhibit....

---

Your ignorance knows no bounds. Nordics and Mediterraneans are so similar in skeletal form that anthropologists have trouble differentiating their physical remains. Hence, they've postulated that Nordics are simply Mediterraneans who have become depigmented through exposure to the cold northern climate. Black Africans, on the other hand, are easily distinguishable from Mediterraneans in every respect.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil Euro:
Smiling after you say something dumb only makes you appear dumber. Re-read my previous reply to understand why "dark features" doesn't mean what you think it does.

---

quote:

---

"Geirmundar ßáttr heljarskins" tells of Geirmundr and Hámundr, twin sons of a minor 9th century Norwegian king who were born with skin so dark they were called heljarskin--Hel-Skin; Black as Hel.

---

quote:

---

Even though dark features might be attributed to supernatural influence, people exhibiting this trait were still considered to be Norwegians, and their intermarriage with fair- skinned Norse presented no special issues.

---

"Blacks" were in these areas in ancient times. Can you deal with this? There are coat-of-arms with black faces. Do you dismiss that too?

You can actually learn a lot from the people you call "Afro-sources".
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/David-MacRitchie

David MacRitchie (April 16, 1861 - January 14, 1925) was the younger son of William Dawson MacRitchie and Elizabeth Elder MacRitchie. He was born in Edinburgh and attended the Edinburgh Southern Academy, the Edinburgh Institute and Edinburgh University. He did not gain a degree but qualified as a Chartered Accountant. His father had been a surgeon in the East India Company.

David founded the Gypsy Lore Society in 1889, which he edited with Francis Hindes Groome. In 1907 he became president of the St Andrew Society, a position which he held until his death.

In 1914 he joined the Council of the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland,serving as vice-president from 1917 - 1920. He was noted for his interest in archaeology, being appointed as a trustee for Lord Abercromby's endowment for an Archeology department at the University of Edinburgh.

He was also a member of the Scottish Arts Club and Vice-president of the Philosophical Institution. he was active in such charities as the Edinburgh Dispensary for Skin Diseases and the Edinburgh Society for the Relief of Indigent Old Men.

Publications by MacRitchie include:
Ancient and Modern Britons, a Retrospect, 1884
Accounts of the Gypsies of India, 1886
The Testimony of Tradition, 1890
The Ainos, 1892
The Underground Life, 1892
Fians, Fairies and Picts, 1893
Scottish Gypsies under the Stewarts 1894
Pygmies in Northern Scotland, 1892
Some Hebridean Antiquities, 1895
Diary of a Tour through Great Britain, (editor) 1897
The Northern Trolls, 1898
Memories of the Picts, 1900
Underground Dwellings, 1900
Fairy Mounds, 1900
Shelta, the Caird's Language, 1901
Hints of Evolution in Tradition, 1902
The Arctic Voyage of 1653, 1909
Celtic Civilisation, No date
Druids and Mound Dwellers, 1910
Les Pygmies chez les Anciens Egyptiens et les Hebreux (with S.T.H. Horowitz), 1912
Les kayaks dans le nord de l'Europe, 1912
Great and Little Britain, 1915
The Celtic Numerals of Strathclyde, 1915
The Duns of the North, 1917
The Savages of Gaelic Tradition, 1920
The Aborigines of Shetland and Orkney, 1924

quote:

---

Nordics and Mediterraneans are so similar in skeletal form that anthropologists have trouble differentiating their physical remains.

---

Funny too, how this 'nearly indistinguishable from nordic' skeletal type gets extended to to the point of also being 'nearly indistinguishable' from the Gabonese Bantu! It seems to extend and retract, to fit the need.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil Euro:
Your ignorance knows no bounds. Nordics and Mediterraneans are so similar in skeletal form that anthropologists have trouble differentiating their physical remains.

---

Prove that:
- Meds don't have a greater bone diversity.

The differences in physique betweem Nordic and Med is usually brought along by Nordic supremists. If you want prove your assertion than it can be believed.

quote:

---

Hence, they've postulated that Nordics are simply Mediterraneans who have become depigmented through exposure to the cold northern climate.

You need to get that into the Nordic supremist heads. Such notions are simply rediculous without any sources. It could be believable if you have the proper sources.

[QUOTE]
Black Africans, on the other hand, are easily distinguishable from Mediterraneans in every respect.

---

If you use the 'Forest Negro' as the standard then that would be the case. However, East Africans can look similar to Mediterraneans, especially the Dravidians or Arabs from the Peninsula, both that are included under this ficticious 'Mediterranean' type.

quote:

---

Of course, Southern Europeans are as Caucasoid as all other Europeans. This is the consensus of both physical anthropologists and population geneticists. Needless to say, your Afro-opinion is irrelevant to the matter.

---

This is why Nordic supremist groups are labelling you Meds as heterogenous? Hitler and the Nazi part thought the same? Are they all Afro-centrics?

If YOU hate the fact that Europeans are Heterogenous, then you need to find another solution rather than constantly using childish methods. You failed in proving that the Ethiopians are caucasoid, or were caucasoid. What we need are proper sources, without distortion.

Can you prove that:

i) Benin Sickle Cell is also Caucasoid in origin.
ii) E3b Haplotype is Caucasoid in origin.
iii) Prove that the 'Mediterranian' features of the East Africans are 'Caucasoid'?
* Prove = Sources Required

quote:

---

Originally posted by Horemheb:
Roy, I have not seen the pictures you mention. I am telling you that the terms 'black Dutch' and 'black Irish' have nothing to do with negroid peoples anywhere.

---

You really didn't. Head to the Netherlands for a better view.

Zwarte Pieten: http://home.tiscali.nl/rodekruissmallacht/images/Het%20sinterklaas%20en%20zwarte%20pieten%20team%202-12-2003.jpg http://members.rott.chello.nl/ckardinaal/Zwarte%20pieten.jpg

This is how Black Pete is seen in the Netherlands.

It's a debate between Hitler and Mussolini.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Roy_2k5:
Can you prove that:

iii) Prove that the 'Mediterranian' features of the East Africans are 'Caucasoid'?

---

Black Peter
is represented black in many European countries: representations of black Pete Schwarze Peter, Pierre le Noir, also named –le More-. are black, France, Switzerland, Ostrich, Netherlands, Pierre Fouettard, various names and meanings depending on the religion history culture and language . They are many hypotheses about why Black Peter became trendy
:- fear of the strangers bringing pest in the harbours
-mourning after deaths (all dressed in black)
–threats and blackmail to influence children into good behaviour, (for political and educational purposes)
-some say it is a Charles Quint personification,
-St NiKlaus needed a helper, in Turkey around the fourth century he found a black assistant, (is that why the church is more open to blacks then it is to women?)
-it’s a good opposition black/white with Christmas Father good/bad representation.
Maybe all of those reasons together, or others.
A popular game with a penitence card is still called Pierre le Noir, even though this last decade the decks with the black representation of Peter have been replaced with other symbols, same as "Negerkopfs", "têtes de nègres", the popular cream stuffed chocolates have been renamed.

There again, shoved in the black concept, all fears: of unknown, of evil, of diseases, seing this resistance to the idea of blacks bringing progress, one prefers to imagine anything sort of bad is black, blackmagic blackmarket blackmail and so on, no doubt in many langages black has this connotation.

I recall paintings seen in various museums, from 12 century onwards, with black-Maure-Moresque-maronesque-more-maron-marron type characters. Maures stayed around after the Spanish occupation, no doubt some became rich and powerful, settled and mixed.

People travel, those traveling whether black Not Maures only) or white, rich or poor, are hired for their skills to work, to teach, to study, to bring their knowledge abroad and these people, by sharing it in different fields of sciences, have brought our civilization to where it is now.

Most scenes with the three Kings leaving to Bethleem, or Nativity scenes show one or two of them as "blacks" marons, marrons whatever, and those European paintings date of many centuries.

On another note, we had many migrations in Europe, i wonder how many are 100% pure!

Mixed here,,,, European-ly obviously mixed with specks of Africa & doubt Evil here is from Europe.

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On another note, we had many migrations in Europe, i wonder how many are 100% pure!

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St. Maurice of Germany is a pure African, therefore I'm pretty sure Black Pete was a 100% Black too.

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FWIW: It's a mistake to allow EuroDisney to bait you into his silly 'race purity' game.

He himself is a mere victim of false pride wounded by the Nordicists via: http://www.maknews.com/html/articles/genetic_studies/hla_genes.html

Remember misery loves company, and EuroDisney is clearly a miserable twisted loser looking to "share".

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Ausar wrote, the irony of this is St. Maurice actually came from Upper Egypt[Southern Egypt] around the Luxor area. He is also a Coptic saint held in high reguard. He was part of the Theban league of soliders who were stationed in parts of Europe by the Romans.

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Originally posted by Evil Euro:
Yemeni Mediterranean and English Nordic:

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Thought Writes:

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Originally posted by Thought2:
Thought Writes:

Evil Euro believes that phenotype isolate represents true lineage. We live in the era of genetics and Evil Euro still focuses on Carleton Coon. Pure comedy.

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The 3rd Reich film propaganda also popularised this form of argument in Germany.

They would show the images of the ideal Aryan, and contrast with the scowling Jew, pointing to the 'Semetic' features as sign of 'obvious' moral and intellectual degeneracy, that everyone 'knew' to be true anyway, or course.

Then they'd shock cut to images of rats running thru the sewers of Germany and people dieing, in case they had been too subtle, up until then!

It also looks like pure comedy today, so you have to remind yourself that base as it was, scared and angry often ignorant people, drunk on hate, ignored the complete lack of logic, the obvious contradictions, and bought into it anyway.

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Originally posted by rasol:
The 3rd Reich film propaganda also popularised this form of argument in Germany.

They would show the images of the ideal Aryan, and contrast with the scowling Jew, pointing to the 'Semetic' features as sign of 'obvious' moral and intellectual degeneracy, that everyone 'knew' to be true anyway, or course.

[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 01 February 2005).]

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Thought Writes:

The Nazi's went to great lengths purge Germany of "impure" elements. Some Nazi's felt that they had to even get rid of Christianity and return to Paganism because the Near Eastern roots of the religion.