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ROTFL! I'm sorry but I have to laugh at idiot Horemheb's now apparently drunken infuriated utterly illiterate rants. I think someone beat him up and took his balloons away or something.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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supercar
unregistered
posted
Horemheb: a wealth of useful and enlightning information is being posted here about Moors. You could learn quite a lot, if only you would avail yourself to it, rather than waisting whatever's left of your life, in trying to fit into foreign civilizations.
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I'm still trying to figure out what you guys are trying to do. If you are trying to say that African civilizations influenced western thought and made a meaningful contribution to the march of civilization you are going to get laughed off the black. Lets get down to some serious history and quit posting these silly black ststues that prove nothing. here is the problem, I'm sorry that you guys had ancestors who, while probably being good hard working people , made no meaningful contribution to world civilization. That does not make you a bad person nor does it condem you to a life of obscurity. when you examine history be objective, stop using the arguments you find that support your view and disregard the rest. Stop taking myth, saga and fiction and using it as if it were fact. When you reaserch a topic do a good enough job where you can dig for the deeper meaning. Don't take everything at face value. Do yourself a favor...forget about race, talk about Ancient Egypt.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: In a nutshell the Arabian population of the 6th century were mostly either traditional, Jewish, or Christian. Dhu Nuwas was a Yemini who converted to Judaism and like many new proselytes was over zealous and persecuted the Christian elements. The Byzantines and the Abyssinian Coptics came to the aid of their Arab coreligionists with the Abyssinians attaining hegemony over the peninsula.
At some point in time the Abyssinian Coptics decided to overthrow the site of the Traditionalists at Mecca where the Qa`aba housed their idols. Elephants were the tanks of those days and when an elephant mysteriously failed to obey its mahout it made a great impression on the Arabs who defeated the Abyssinians regaining their sovereignty.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: The Arabs including Yeminis are more red (brown and lighter) than black (brown and darker).
You mean Red like an Somali/South Indian?
My uncle and others whom have been in Saudi Arabia has told me that most Saudi Arabians tend to be more darker skinned like a Dravidian. However in Jeddah, you will find the more Caucasoid looking Arabs.
The lower class Yemenis look more Australoid, which is distinct from the 'Asiatic' or Somali-like Yemenis with similar complexion. They tend to look more like a Jarawa than a Somali. Surprisingly, the Jarawa would be considered more 'African' than even the Somali or Khosiens by Westerners.
Note: I am fully aware that the Mauritanian were the Moors, and are much darker than the Yemenis Arab.
[This message has been edited by Roy_2k5 (edited 20 January 2005).]
You asked about the ethnicity of the Moors and a interesting discussion ensued.
So add this to the points to ponder:
ANWAR CHEJNE tells in his informative text, "MUSLIM SPAIN: IT'S HISTORY AND CULTURE" the following: " But the most relevant and significant views on Islam are those of Alfonso X(1252-1284), a king and scholar.... Before assuming the throne, Alfonso X was in intinate contact with Muslims, first as governor of Murcia and later as a king who surrounded himself with Muslim savants....In fact, like his immediate predecessors he gave serious consideration to the expulsion of the Moors".
But Alfonso was quite nationalistic and he expressed his views on the Moorish presence in his "CRONICA GENERAL DE ESPANA". For Alfonso it was a big calamity that had befallen the Visigoths when they succumbed to the Moorish invasion at the behest of King Roderick. He was quite upset at how the Moors conquered Spain as is demonstrated by these comments: "All the Moorish soldiers were dressed with silk and black wool that had been forcibly acquired; the reins of their horses were like fire; their BLACK faces were like PITCH and the most handsome of them was like a cooking pan; thus their eyes shone like flames; their horses fast as leopards...The vile people of AFRICA who were not used to kindness...are now exalted 'Poor Spain. Your death was so afflicted...."
So obviously King Alfonso saw the Moors as blacks--persons of Africoid phenotype.
Ivan van Sertima has also edited a text titled "GOLDEN AGE OF THE MOOR" whose virtue is that it contains many paintings and visual depictions of the Moors as they were seen in the days of their presence in Spain. They were clearly Africoid in appearance.
But note that the term "Moor" is not of African origin as is the name of the West African country called Mauritania. The so-called Moors of Mauritania actually call themselves "Naah" and their language is not Arabic but "Naah" itself. When they migrate to Senegal and Gambia they usually set up small shops. The French erroneosly referred to them as "white Moors" but in actual fact they range from dark brown to yellow in colour with the lighter coloured ones resembling the generic phenotype seen in North Africa.
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Lamin, as I understand it, in the Gambia these folks are called "Sulah" or "Naar". Just not sure if the latter has any connection with the term "Naah" you mentioned.
[This message has been edited by supercar (edited 20 January 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by efe_adodo: Can anyone give me a list of All the modern day countres where the Moors originated from?
I believe this question has indirectly been addressed in previous posts here. I think AlTakruri broke it down rather appropriately into African and non-African perspectives. What is important is that the Moors as applied to southern European conquests, involved Islamic Africans, including black Africans.
quote:AlTakruri posted earlier:
By and large, when it comes to al Andalus aka Muslim Spain the Imazighen and certain Islamized Gnawa were Moors whereas the Arabs and Arabized east Mediterraneans, Iraqis, and Iranians were Saracens.
To nonAfricans there may be confusion over who are Moors but in Africa the Hasaniya speaking Beydan and Haritin of Mauritania are the Moors. They are the only people in Africa other than the few Arma along the Niger, who call themselves Moors. Many of the inhabitants of the original old Mauretania were pushed south by the Arabs...
Yes the Europeans were most impressed by the al Murabitun and al Muwahhidun who were mainly Zenaga Imazighen and Gnawa Atlantics found on either side of the river Senegal. These people became the Moors par exellant in the European psyche but the Luso Hispanics did not consider their own familiar nonMuslim Gnawa slaves and servants as Moors whereas in the British Isles nonMuslim Gnawa were called Moors, like Elen and Margaret More and Peter Moryen free favorites and courtiers of queen Margaret and king James of Scotland.
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[This message has been edited by supercar (edited 21 January 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by supercar: This makes no sense.
I meant that the Jarara Australoid do look very Negroid, even more so than a Somali. I do at times use the term 'African' and 'Negroid' interchangeably, but I picked up this habit in the West.
quote:Originally posted by Roy_2k5: I meant that the Jarara Australoid do look very Negroid, even more so than a Somali. I do at times use the term 'African' and 'Negroid' interchangeably, but I picked up this habit in the West.
I understand what you are saying.
Australians also have some physical characteristics which are distinct from most Africans [including often white/blonde hair]. There was a Cavalli-Sforza [not my favorite reference] genetic study which reputed to show that Austrialians and Africans were the most genetically distant populations on earth. However both are also distant from Europeans.
Australians were classified by some physical anthropologists as racially caucasoid - but this makes no 'genetic' sense. Others classified them as racially 'negroid'. But this makes no genetic sense either.
Australians do not 'need' to be classified in terms of Africans or Europeans any more than Europeans need to be classified as 'Australoid'.
The race classifcation system is really a scam. It's a contrived European caste system meant to provide pseudo-scientific rationale for white supremacy.
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 21 January 2005).]
posted
I see we are starting our day off with a cup of coffee and more talk about blacks. We need to change the name of this board. Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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supercar
unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by Roy_2k5: I meant that the Jarara Australoid do look very Negroid, even more so than a Somali. I do at times use the term 'African' and 'Negroid' interchangeably, but I picked up this habit in the West.
Then I take it that by "Negroid" you mean "forest Negro" type, because "Negroid" in itself doesn't apply to just central and West Africans, but indeed includes Northeastern and sub-Saharan eastern tropically adapted Africans. When you state the some ethnic group, which actually may be more distant from Africans, than actual Africans, it doesn't make sense, and that is what I was pointing out. Somalians are Africans, and have always been African. How much more African can that get?
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rasol is back on the white supremacy kick again. If we don't have the aswer blame on the evil white man.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
if I were gone rasshole you would still be doing it. You feel inferior to white people and feel like you have to do this black thing here on this board to make yourself feel adequate. There are some good shrinks who could help you, about six sessions of thearpy should help you get rid of all those racially inferior feelings.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
is that your only good line rasshole. why in the world would a European want to steal anything from you....think about it.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: is that your only good line rasshole. why in the world would a European want to steal anything from you....think about it.
That is indeed a good question.
Simple Definition of imperialism
: a policy or practice by which a country increases its power by gaining control over other areas of the world : the effect that a powerful country or group of countries has in changing or influencing the way people live in other, poorer countries
The Berlin Conference set the rules for the carving up of the continent.
This period was known as the "Scramble for Africa".
Colonial boundaries were created by the Europeans that had nothing to do with those used by the people living there (compare the map to the African Kingdoms map). Whole families, clans, tribes, and nations were split up because of the boundary line created by the outsider Europeans.
The divisions were arbitrarily decided by the colonising countries. They were not based on existing tribal or geographical boundaries. Some of the new boundaries split tribes in half. Others made huge territories that were difficult to control. This led to conflicts in the twentieth century, when the colonised countries became independent. Click on the map to see a larger version. - See more at:
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In the case above, we can see a historic anthropological avenue as well.
quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: is that your only good line rasshole. why in the world would a European want to steal anything from you....think about it.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
I’ve done further research on the matter and it seems that I was wrong… some of the Moors were black, but it was the Syrian Umayyad dynasty that initially commissioned the conquest of the Iberian Peninsula with an army composed mostly of Berbers and Arabs from Yemen and some black fighters from the Sahel. The Moors were just grunts in the initial thrust into the Iberian Peninsula. The Barbary pirates were not black and so CelticWarrioress was wrong when she tried to lay the crimes of the Barbary pirates at our feet. There is no moral equivalence between blacks and whites. Europeans have decimates hundreds of millions of people on the four corners of the earth and have stolen entire continents and so we can’t be morally equated with them. This was my point.
Posts: 1568 | From: Pluto | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
today's Moors are an African people, period, whether light or black. One thing, when speaking of Moors, is to specify the time period.
Greco-Roman era Moors were littoral North Africans from Tunisia westward.
Early Islamic era Moors were northern Algerians and northern Moroccans.
Mid Islamic era Moors expanded to include western Saharans.
For Xian Europe in the early and mid Islamic eras Moors were any Muslims included in the invasion, conquest, and occupation of al~Andalus (Moorish Spain) including Iberian converts to Islam.
For Xian Europe often enough any African regardless of religious confession was a Moor particularly a black.
As we enter the modern era Moor is restricted to the Mauritanians but sometimes includes Western Saharans and Moroccans.
I intentionally left out the Moros of the Filipines as well as Indonesian and Indian Muslims who at times have been referred to as Moors by Xian Europe.
External identification of Moors is one thing while self-defined Moors is another matter. For me only self-defined Moors are real Moors. Externally defined Moors could be anybody the identifier chooses to call Moor whether or not the subjects has never viewed themselves as Moorish.