quote:Originally posted by fromashes_rise: hi members
does anyone have any information on the view that nimrod and osiris are the same person?
ive seen it somewhere on the net but dont know where.
Here are the main similarities between Nimrod and Osiris:
Nimrod According to the bible Nimrod was from Kush, and therefore a Sudanese, who is credited with being the first imperialist on earth, whose empire encompassed much of the Sudan. (Biblical scholars have confused the repetition of Kushite or Sudanese names in Asia, with their original African genesis - the plain of Sennar in the Sudan which would later be copied by the land of Shinar in Babylonia, etc. - also, the kingdom of Kush in Asia -
Osiris According to Ancient Egyptian tradition Osiris was also of Kushite descent (born in Denderah, Upper Egypt), a member of the dominant Anu ethnic group. He is considered by the Ancient Egyptians as the Great Founder of the race.
--there is also a similarity in the names "Nimrod" and "Narmer" the Great Unifier... There is much confusion, because they are legendary figures, regarding Nimrod, Narmer, Narmer-Menes, Menes...
[This message has been edited by Wally (edited 24 January 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by fromashes_rise: hi members
does anyone have any information on the view that nimrod and osiris are the same person?
ive seen it somewhere on the net but dont know where.
quote:Originally posted by ausar: The better question would be if any person can prove that Nimrod was an actual historical person.
One need also prove Osiris to be an historic personage as well.
The basic characteristics of the two incline to disassociate them as one. The Nimrod of the Bible has no part in godship. He is completely mortal. He seems to represent the spreading out of Kushite power from Sennar, establishing a branch of it Africa Geologica as Shinar. He is an archtype of the conquerer who establishes empires and the hunter who never fails to capture the game, whether animals in the chase or trap or humans by outright war or political persuasion.
Osiris on the otherhand is peaceful and suffered death at the hand of his enemy. Being the first of the resurrected he holds the key to resurrection for pharaoh as an afterlife divinity, also resurrection of plantlife. I dont know if its Greek or Kmtw that he wandered the earth imparting agricultural knowledge but the Greeks did associate him with their Dionysius. They associated Nimrod with their Orion. The nonHebrew peoples of Africa Geologica and Iran, the Caucasus and Balkans did deify Nimrod and in their myths were there are some parallels to Osiris.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: One need also prove Osiris to be an historic personage as well.
The basic characteristics of the two incline to disassociate them as one. The Nimrod of the Bible has no part in godship. He is completely mortal. He seems to represent the spreading out of Kushite power from Sennar, establishing a branch of it Africa Geologica as Shinar. He is an archtype of the conquerer who establishes empires and the hunter who never fails to capture the game, whether animals in the chase or trap or humans by outright war or political persuasion.
Osiris on the otherhand is peaceful and suffered death at the hand of his enemy. Being the first of the resurrected he holds the key to resurrection for pharaoh as an afterlife divinity, also resurrection of plantlife. I dont know if its Greek or Kmtw that he wandered the earth imparting agricultural knowledge but the Greeks did associate him with their Dionysius. They associated Nimrod with their Orion. The nonHebrew peoples of Africa Geologica and Iran, the Caucasus and Balkans did deify Nimrod and in their myths were there are some parallels to Osiris.
I admire your scholarship... Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by HERU: Wasn't a tomb for Osirus found in Upper Egypt?
There's the inevitable controversy around this one, but, and I writing now from memory, the remains of Osiris were supposed to have been appropriated by several Kemetian cities, so there would then be several tombs containing his remains (kinda like being parcelled out, piece by piece)... Keep in mind, Osiris became an Ikhu, a shining one, spirit, and ancestor. Ancestor worship was very strong. It is probably certain (how's that for a phrase) that Osiris was a great man and Founder who became deified...
[This message has been edited by Wally (edited 24 January 2005).]
posted
HERU, here's a re-post of something I put up previously...
"Despite his obvious handicap of being a European writing African history, EW Budge has left us with some fine nuggets of gold, truly revealing;
1) Osiris, as the Great father ancestor of the Kemetian race:
quote: The Egyptians, like so many modern African peoples, worshiped the spirits of their ancestors, and that early in the Dynastic Period, Osiris became the great ancestor of all Egypt, and was worshiped as such.
The cult of the ancestor spirit is common all over Africa and its existence seems not to be incompatible with a belief in God, the Creator of the World and all in it.
...The figure of Osiris brought with it the help, protection, and support of the father-god, and it was to the Egyptian exactly what the ancestral-spirit figure is to the African today. -- p300
The Kemetians referred to their ancestors as Ikhu (Akhjw; Akhou) which literally means "The Shining Ones" (IE, "spirits").
Budge informs us also that the Coptic name for Osiris is Usiri. Other Dialect variations: Asar; Ausar; Ausyr; Wosiri; Osiri Title: KemOsiri
2) Isis as the Great mother ancestress of the Kemetian race:
quote: She was the wife of Osiris, and if Osiris was the great father ancestor, she was, of necessity, the great mother ancestress.
The legends which exist in Egyptian texts tell us how the goddess, after she had conceived Horus, retired to the swamps of the Delta, and how being quite alone there, she brought him forth.
In this, as in many other respects, tradition regarded Isis as an African woman, and preferably a woman from the Sudan, for she brought forth her son as Sudani women bring forth their children. -- p301
Budge informs us also that the Coptic name for Isis is Ese. Other Dialect variations: Ase(t); Ause(t); Isi Titles: KemIsi; Sa(t) Keme(t)
Quotes from "Osiris & The Egyptian Resurrection" by E.A. Wallis Budge, Dover books, Vol. I
[This message has been edited by Wally (edited 24 January 2005).]
posted
Nimrod was the son of Cush, the grandson of Ham, and therefore Black the same as Osiris was black. Osiris and Nimrod are the same. Nimrod was before Osiris. Osiris is represented by the Leopard, and the name Nimrod means Leopard Tamer. Nimrod founded Babel, Erech, Calneh, Ninevah, Accad and the Assyrian empire. He also invaded Egypt and subdued the "leopard" (Osiris). Allegorically, Nimrod subdued Osiris, and therefore became Osiris. He was also the god of fire worship. He made an engine and fired Abraham into a pit of fire from which he miraculously escaped. He is also known as Molloch in the Bible. The Israelites were told not to sacrifice their children to the fires of Molloch(nimrod) when it was their custom to sacrifice children by throwing them into pits of fire.
If you need to know anything else about Nimrod, please let me know, but yes Nimrod is Osiris. Dionysus, no, not until after the religion of Osiris was merged with the Greek Dionysus. Nimrod was Ethiopian, same as Osiris. Charlie.
Amen brother, but... and I do mean to speak for HERU, I think the question was whether or not Osiris and Nimrod were actual human beings, and were they the same people. I think he's well aware that they were "real" in a mythological sense, in fact, we all know this. He was talking concrete, here and now, real world stuff, guy...
[This message has been edited by Wally (edited 24 January 2005).]
posted
In the myth Ausars dissembled remains were entombed in various nomes. I think his head is located at the Osireion or tomb/temple of Osiris if I remember my Diop citing Amelineau correctly.
Some prominent tombs of Asar were at 1. Biga, the Abaton 2. Dendera 3. Abydos, the Osireion ??? 4. Abusir, the Taphosiris ???
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Of course Nimrod was real, whether or not he actually had that name is debatable. But all mythological personages had some basis in fact. For exampe the Exodus was real at some point, but later tuned into allegorical myth. Even the God Jehovah was part of a ruling family of superior race, until they became gods and then God. Even the myth of Dracula was based on the tyrant Vladimir. Nimrod was an actual person as one can see from the Bible they were not encoded in allegory, but in fact. Sodom and Gommorrah, on the other hand is not fact, despite the fact archaeologits are looking for thse two towns, the are written in allegory for allegory they are. Gommorrah came from the seed of Seth out of the Pleroma and Sodom was the fruit of her loins also by the same Seth. Its a quetion of being able to understand fact from mythology.
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posted
King Scorpion, There are Sumarian King lists that go back well before the first successful Adama (Adam priest/King). There were at least 3O unsuccessful attempts by the Elohim who were the inhabitants of Sumer. Charlie.
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