posted
Here is some more true info on the ethnographic history of East Africa.
The Peopling of East Africa
...The original (human) inhabitants of East Africa were probably hunter-gatherers who spoke click languages similar to the Khoisan people. The Sandawe and maybe the Hadza of Tanzania are perhaps the only direct descendants remaining in East Africa today. Over thousands of years, these people retreated or were absorbed as others migrated into the area. This later peopling of East Africa was carried out by three main African groups: the Cushitic-speaking peoples; the Nilotic-speaking peoples; and lastly the Bantu-speaking peoples. All these groupings are based on linguistic and cultural patterns and comprise the ancestors of most present-day East Africans– the Black Africans. The Cushitic people originated from the Ethiopian Highlands and were the first known food producers in East Africa. They spread out from their original dispersal site to occupy most of northeastern Africa and some also migrated south. The Cushitic peoples probably already reached the Kenyan Higlands by c.1000BCE. The Oromo of Ethiopia and northeast Kenya are Eastern Cushitics. The Nilotes probably originated from the Sahel in the west and migrated east to the Nile River region of southern Sudan. They later moved further east until they reached the southwestern borders of the Ethiopian Highlands. The Nilotes are further divided into three branches based on where they migrated to: the Highland and Plains Nilotes (who are also part Cushitic) and the River-Lake Nilotes. Between 1000BCE and 1500CE, the Highland and Plains Nilotes migrated into the highlands and plains of Kenya and Tanzania. The Maasai and the Karamojong are Plains Nilotes. The River Lake Nilotes, however, followed the Nile Valley and settled in the lakes region of northern Uganda or traveled north to present-day southern Sudan. The Bantu people originated in eastern Nigeria. At first, they spread through the equatorial rainforest belt and then, between 500BCE and 300CE, eastward and southward into East and Southern Africa. Later migrations– from the south to the east– further dispersed them throughout the region. The Kikuyu, Ganda, Nyoro and Nyamwezi people are all Bantu in origin, as are most of the population of East Africa, but are confined mainly to the regions south of the Horn....
Dr. Elizabeth Dunstan and David Hall of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London.
Of course, there were no caucasians mentioned as being one of the indigenous people, they were all “Black Africans”!!
That whole bit with the asian mail-ordered brides was absolutely foolish!! LMFO He needs to just give it up!! Enough is enough!!!
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 01 May 2005).]
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
By the way, here are two articles that my Somali friends have shown me and which furthers shows how whites normally view Somali folk! http://www.answers.com/topic/somalia-affair
...The soldiers, wearing night-vision goggles, had been lying in wait for the Somalis, in what some had referred to as a "hunting expedition." One army surgeon reported the dead teen had been shot in the head from close range after being wounded. ...
...Video footage of another airborne soldier Corporal Matt McKay, was found. When asked if he had any complaints about the mission he stated that "we ain't killed enough niggers yet."...
...Adding to the damage were allegations that an attempt to cover-up the events had stretched high into the defense staff. Important records and documents could not be found and there were allegations that they had been ordered destroyed. ...
...Soon the scrutiny of the behaviour of Canada's military outside the airborne turned up more disturbing stories. Incidents of sexual-harassment against women were revealed, lapses in discipline, brutal traditions, and a failure in command were found in other units. ...
...Italian troops were photographed raping a Somali woman and Belgian soldiers took photographs of themselves urinating on and burning Somalis. ...
...In the Summer of 1997, I saw wire reports about photographs that were published in the Italian magazine Panorama. One photo shows Italian soldiers attaching electrodes to the testicles of a Somali prisoner who is tied to the ground. In another, a Somali woman is being raped with the end of a flare gun. The photos were taken by the Italian soldiers themselves, peacekeepers recording their triumph for posterity. ...
And you wonder why Somali people are so hostile to foreigners, especially white Westerners!!
and why they are taking arms!
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 01 May 2005).]
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Are Ethiopians mixed? The fact is that the admixture is greater in Ethiopians than in Somalians
Correct and we should too keep in mind that Somali is an ethnic group - which in turn consists of different clans with different levels of Arab admixture, but Ethiopian is a nationality, with many different ethnicities.
Some PN2-clade E3b Ethiopian groups have even more E3b than the Somali with even less admixture.
Arab admixture in Ethiopia was never at issue- nor is African admixture in Saudi-Arabia and Yemen.
What is exposed as false and indefensible is the 'white origin' Carltoon Coon and others fabricated for scores of different peoples including the Tutsi, and ultimately the entire human race....with the faux-caucasoid race label system.
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 07 April 2005).]
Just to avoid misunderstandings kindly break down the "Arab admixtures" in Ethiopia(Abysynnia--the original name used by Arabia to refer to "Ethiopia"). Of course, since Arabia is but an extension of Africa there would be nothing to block the notion that its original inhabitants would be black/African in the same way that Fijians and New Guineans are of strictly African phenotype.
quote:Course, since Arabia is but an extension of Africa there would be nothing to block the notion that its original inhabitants would be black/African
Indeed in the context of -> We actually have DNA evidence which fits very well with an intrusion of people from northeastern African into southwestern Asia. The Y-chromosome markers, associated with the male, fade out as you go deeper into the Middle East. - Ehret, Keita
....and
quote: This study is from a Japanese bioanthropologist: Hanihara T. 1996
Department of Anatomy, Tohoku University School of Medicine, Sendai, Japan.
Distance analysis and factor analysis, based on Q-mode correlation coefficients, were applied to 23 craniofacial measurements in 1,802 recent and prehistoric crania from major geographical areas of the Old World. The major findings are as follows: 1) Australians show closer similarities to African populations than to Melanesians. 2) Recent Europeans align with East Asians, and early West Asians resemble Africans. 3) The Asian population complex with regional difference between northern and southern members is manifest. 4) Clinal variations of craniofacial features can be detected in the Afro-European region on the one hand, and Australasian and East Asian region on the other hand. 5) The craniofacial variations of major geographical groups are not necessarily consistent with their geographical distribution pattern. This may be a sign that the evolutionary divergence in craniofacial shape among recent populations of different geographical areas is of a highly limited degree. Taking all of these into account, a single origin for anatomically modern humans is the most parsimonious interpretation of the craniofacial variations presented in this study.
....the pre-Arab nature of "Arabia" warrants a discussion all its own.
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 07 April 2005).]
posted
In Altakruri's thread on E3b Supercar has posted a map, showing the relative levels of West Asian J in Omoro and Amhara.
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posted
What they don't tell you about pre-Islamic Arabia is that there were both negrito and Veddoid type populations in parts of Yemen. The oldest Arab group and the only Arab group that has direct links to the ancient Sabeans/Mineans/Himyarites is the Mahra. The Mahra are completely different from traditional Arabs and are actually quite distinct in cultural traits. Most Mahra are beardless people that can't grow long beards.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Before Evil E and his mentor Diekenes get excited I should mention that a Upper Paleolithic origin of M has no bearing on Caucasoids at all. In fact Andaman Islanders may represent the pristine type that carried the M lineage in Asia. Europeans were still somewhat tropically adapted as late as the Mesolithic period.
Haplogroup M **may** have entered Africa prior to the Last Glacial Maximum along with U6 and the Y-Chromosome marker R1* and then diverged into the African specific marker M1. In addition it is of interest that early Europeans (Grimaldi Man) and so-called Aurignacian finds from Siberia (where upstream R1* spread as well) have cranial morphologies with greater resemblance to modern "Sub-Saharan" Africans than extant Europeans or NE Asians. From the perspective of history it is of interest to note that the Greeks mentioned two Ethiopias, a eastern Ethiopia in Asia and a western Ethiopia in Africa. This is consistent with the theme of a Andaman Islander type population spreading R1*, U6 and ancestral M lineages back into Africa. "Caucasoids" played no part in this process. Recent studies demonstrating substanial frequencies of M1 as far west in Africa as Guinea-Bissau call for larger sample sizes and more diverse populations studies in Africa to ascertain the shared gene pool of East and West Africans. We have hints of a genetic continuity existing from the Bay of Bengal to the Gulf of Guinea.
quote:Originally posted by ausar:
What they don't tell you about pre-Islamic Arabia is that there were both negrito and Veddoid type populations in parts of Yemen. The oldest Arab group and the only Arab group that has direct links to the ancient Sabeans/Mineans/Himyarites is the Mahra. The Mahra are completely different from traditional Arabs and are actually quite distinct in cultural traits. Most Mahra are beardless people that can't grow long beards.
posted
MtDNA profile of West Africa Guineans: towards a better understanding of the Senegambia region. Ann Hum Genet. 2004 Jul;68(Pt 4):340-52
Rosa A, Brehm A, Kivisild T, Metspalu E, Villems R.
Department of Evolutionary Biology, Estonian Biocenter, Tartu University, Riia 23, 51010 Tartu, Estonia.
The matrilineal genetic composition of 372 samples from the Republic of Guine-Bissau (West African coast) was studied using RFLPs and partial sequencing of the mtDNA control and coding region. The majority of the mtDNA lineages of Guineans (94%) belong to West African specific sub-clusters of L0-L3 haplogroups. A new L3 sub-cluster (L3h) that is found in both eastern and western Africa is present at moderately low frequencies in Guinean populations. A non-random distribution of haplogroups U5 in the Fula group, the U6 among the "Brame" linguistic family and M1 in the Balanta-Djola group, suggests a correlation between the genetic and linguistic affiliation of Guinean populations. The presence of M1 in Balanta populations supports the earlier suggestion of their Sudanese origin. Haplogroups U5 and U6, on the other hand, were found to be restricted to populations that are thought to represent the descendants of a southern expansion of Berbers. Particular haplotypes, found almost exclusively in East-African populations, were found in some ethnic groups with an oral tradition claiming Sudanese origin.
...During the 2nd millennium B.C., when Semitic peoples of Arabia were migrating and expanding, some Semitic tribes spread south in to southern Arabia, in what is now Yemen and from there, crossed the Red Sea into what is now Eritrea and northern Ethiopia. These settlers were the Sabaean people, and they mixed and intermarried with the native Cushitic peoples. Their modern-day descendants are the Amhara and Tigre people whose languages are **directly descended from Sabaean**...
Can you please shed some light on how Amharic (not referring to the script) directly descended from Sabaean.
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Here are the modern groups within Yemen that conform to the Southern Semetic type:
The three tribes
that speak Mahra are known to other Arabs as the Ahl al Hadara.
They are the Qarra, Mahra and Harasis with parts of other tribes (WT p.47.)
The language is derived from the language of the Sabaeans, Minaeans and Himyarites.
[b]The Mahra with other Southern Arabian peoples seem aligned to the Hamitic race of north-east Africa.
The Mahra are believed to be descended from the Habasha, who colonised Ethiopia in the first millennium BC (WT p. 198). Many Bait Kathir understand the Mahri language. The Qarra and Mahra have almost beardless faces, fuzzy hair and dark pigmentation (WP171). http://www.globalconnections.co.uk/pdfs/MAHRAArabs.pdf
Proto-Semetic originates in the Horn of Africa:
Arabic
Background and history
Arabic belongs to the Semitic language family. The members of this family have a recorded history going bak thousands of years--one of the most extensive continuous archives of documents belonging to any human language group.
The Semitic languages eventually took root and flourished in the Mediterranean Basin area, especially in the Tigris-Euphrates river basin and in the coastal areas of the Levant, but where the home of area of "proto-Semitic" was located is still the object of dispute among scholars, Once, the Arabian Peninsula was thought to have been the "cradle" of proto-Semitic, but nowadays many scholars advocate the view that it originated somewhere in East Africa, probably in the area of Somalia/Ethiopia.
Interestingly, both these areas are now dominated lingustically by the two youngest members of the Semitic language family: Arabic and Amharic, both of which emerged in the mid-fourth century C.E. http://www.indiana.edu/~arabic/arabic_history.htm
Report: Near Eastern languages came from Africa 10,000 years ago Investigator: Ene Metspalu Tuesday May 28th, 2002 by Laura Spinney Analysis of thousands of mitochondrial DNA samples has led Estonian archeogeneticists to the origins of Arabic. Ene Metspalu of the Department of Evolutionary Biology at Tartu University and the Estonian Biocentre in Tartu, claims to have evidence that the Arab- Berber languages of the Near and Middle East came out of East Africa around 10,000 years ago. She has found evidence for what may have been the last sizeable migration out of Africa before the slave trade. Genetic markers transmitted through either the maternal or paternal line have been used to trace the great human migrations since Homo sapiens emerged in Africa. But attempts to trace the evolution of languages have met with less success, partly because of the impact on languages of untraceable political and economic upheavals. Metspalu and colleagues analyzed inherited variations in a huge number of samples - almost 3000 - of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) taken from natives of the Near East, Middle East and Central Asia, as well as North and East Africa. mtDNA is inherited through the maternal line, and by comparing their data with existing data on European, Indian, Siberian and other Central Asian populations, the researchers were able to create a comprehensive phylogenetic map of maternal lineages diverging from Africa and spreading towards Europe and Asia. Working in collaboration with language specialists, they found that this movement 10,000 years ago, which was probably centred on Ethiopia, could well have been responsible for seeding the Afro- Asiatic language from which all modern Arab-Berber languages are descended. "This language was spoken in Africa 10,000 or 12,000 years ago," Metspalu told BioMedNet News. "We think it was around that time that carriers brought these Afro-Asiatic languages to the Near East." The language, or its derivatives, later spread much further afield. What could have triggered the movement she can only speculate. One possibility is that increasing desertification was causing famine in Africa and driving hunters further afield in search of animals. Interestingly, the lineages they traced through this 10,000-year-old migration didn't seem to get much further north than modern-day Syria or east of modern-day Iraq. There is no evidence of the lineages in the mtDNA of people from Turkey or Iran, says Metspalu. "We can't understand why this boundary [to the Arab-Berber speaking world] is so sharp," she said. "They came out of Africa, and when they reached Turkey they just stopped." She believes some kind of physical boundary, now vanished, must have impeded them. The same genetic detective work has confirmed archeological evidence that the biggest movement out of Africa occurred around 50,000 years ago - which is when Africans first settled in other continents - and that it originated in a small East African population. <http://news.bmn.com/join>
Journal of World Prehistory 12 (1): 55-119, March 1998 Southwest Arabia During the Holocene: Recent Archaeological Developments Christopher Edens, T.J. Wilkinson Abstract Recent fieldwork has considerably increased our knowledge of early Holocene settlement in Southwest Arabia. Neolithic settlement occured within an environmental context of increased monsoonal moisture that continued during the mid-Holocene. A now well-attested Bronze Age exemplified by village and town settlements occupied by sedentary farmers developed toward the end of the mid-Holocene moist interval. The high plateau of Yemen was an early focus for the development of Bronze Age complex society, the economy of which relied upon terrace rain fed and runoff agriculture. On the fringes of the Arabian Desert, the precursors of the Sabaean literate civilization have been traced back to between 3600 and 2800 B.P., and even earlier, so that a virtually continuous archaeological record can now be desribe for parts of Yemen. In contrast to the highlands these societies relied upon food production from large scale irrigation systems dependent upon capricious wadi floods. Bronze Age settlement, while showing some links with the southern Levant, now shows equal or stronger linkages with the Horn of Africa across the Red Sea. Although some regions of Yemen show breaks in occupation, others show continuity into the Sabaean period when a series of major towns grew up in response to the increased incense trade with the north. It is now clear that these civilizations grew up on the foundations of earlier Bronze Age complex societies.
Finally, Nicolas Faraclas suggests that the roots of Semitic languages, which are classified as part of the Afro-Asiatic language family, lie in the Dorfur-Kordofan region on the eastern edge of the Chad-Sudan border. He uses linguistic, archaeological, and climatic evidence to trace the routes by which Afro-Asiatic languages seem to have spread. The Niger-Congo, Nilo-Saharan, and Afro-Asiatic languages all seem to have diverged in a migration that began with the Last Major Wet Spell of the Sahara, which ran from 10,000 B.C. to 5,000 B.C. I am not qualified to judge the linguistic evidence he summarizes, but the maps he draws from that evidence and on which he bases his conclusions are persuasive. Expect to see the article cited regularly in world history literature. http://www.h-net.msu.edu/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=19489869847896
Before the apperance of Proto-Semites there were pockets of negrito and veddoid people in Southern Yemen.
Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in South and Southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans
Mait Metspalu et al.
“The overwhelming majority of the Iranian mtDNAs have been shown to lie in the West Eurasian domain of the global human mtDNA pool [27,28]. Here we focus on the analysis of mtDNA lineages that are shared between Indians and Iranians and bear signals of pre-Holocene expansion in the region.”
“We found haplogroup M ubiquitous at almost 58% among the caste, and 72% among the tribal populations.”
“Over 90% of the mtDNAs found in Iran belong to haplogroups HV, TJ, U, N1, N2 and X, commonly found in West Eurasia.”
“Compared to India, haplogroup M frequency in Iran is marginally low (5.3%) and there are no distinguished Iranian-specific sub-clades of haplogroup M. All Iranian haplogroup M lineages can be seen as derived from other regional variants of the haplogroup: eleven show affiliation to haplogroup M lineages found in India, twelve in East and Central Asia (D, G, and M8) and one in northeast Africa (M1).”
“We found that haplogroup M frequency drops abruptly from about 60% in India to about 5% in Iran, marking the western border of the haplogroup M distribution. A similarly sharp border cuts the distribution of Indian-specific mtDNA haplogroups to the east and to the north of the subcontinent. We therefore propose that the initial mtDNA pool established upon the peopling of South Asia has not been replaced but has rather been reshaped in situ by major demographic episodes in the past and garnished by relatively minor events of gene flow both from the West and the East during more recent chapters of the demographic history in the region.”
Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in South and Southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans
Mait Metspalu et al.
“The overwhelming majority of the Iranian mtDNAs have been shown to lie in the West Eurasian domain of the global human mtDNA pool [27,28]. Here we focus on the analysis of mtDNA lineages that are shared between Indians and Iranians and bear signals of pre-Holocene expansion in the region.”
“We found haplogroup M ubiquitous at almost 58% among the caste, and 72% among the tribal populations.”
“Over 90% of the mtDNAs found in Iran belong to haplogroups HV, TJ, U, N1, N2 and X, commonly found in West Eurasia.”
“Compared to India, haplogroup M frequency in Iran is marginally low (5.3%) and there are no distinguished Iranian-specific sub-clades of haplogroup M. All Iranian haplogroup M lineages can be seen as derived from other regional variants of the haplogroup: eleven show affiliation to haplogroup M lineages found in India, twelve in East and Central Asia (D, G, and M8) and one in northeast Africa (M1).”
“We found that haplogroup M frequency drops abruptly from about 60% in India to about 5% in Iran, marking the western border of the haplogroup M distribution. A similarly sharp border cuts the distribution of Indian-specific mtDNA haplogroups to the east and to the north of the subcontinent. We therefore propose that the initial mtDNA pool established upon the peopling of South Asia has not been replaced but has rather been reshaped in situ by major demographic episodes in the past and garnished by relatively minor events of gene flow both from the West and the East during more recent chapters of the demographic history in the region.”
Thought Writes:
M1 has its highest frequency in Ethiopia and fades out north into the Levant. The fact that the M lineages **overall** reach frequencies of 1.4% in Iraq (Al-Zahery et al http://www.oxfordancestors.com/papers/mtDNA03%20PolymorphismsInIraq.pdf) and less than 6% in Iran (Metspalu et al.) make it likely that M1 in East Africa derive from an ancestral M lineage that spread over from Yemen during the paleolithic era.
On this note it is of interest that Kivisild et al. have discovered a unique new lineage in Yemen labeled L6 that has a TMRCA of 36,600 ky. It is possible that M lineages spread into Ethiopia and L6 spread into Yemen during this period. The fact that M spread into Africa from the southern route (across the Red Sea) and the fact that the most ancient populations of southern Asia invalidate any claims for a "caucasoid" source of M1 in East Africa.
Thought Posts:
Ethiopian mitochondrial DNA heritage: tracking gene flow across and around the gate of tears.
Am J Hum Genet. 2004 Nov;75(5):752-70. Epub 2004 Sep 27.
Kivisild et al.
"The prescence of a frequent founder sequence type of an ancient and as-yet-uncharacterized haplogroup L6 in the Yemeni population, with no haplotype match in the African data base, intriguingly points to a possible early gene flow across the Red Sea or to a signal of gene flow from an African population that has not yet been sampled."
"...the almost complete lack of data from some regions (like Somalia and Kenya), it is possible that the source population of Yemen L6 varieties has not yet been sampled."
[This message has been edited by Thought2 (edited 09 April 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by Thought2: Thought Writes:
M1 has its highest frequency in Ethiopia and fades out north into the Levant. Therefore it is likely that this lineage diverged from an ancestral M lineage that crossed over from Yemen during the paleolithic era. On this note it is of interest that Kivisild et al. note a unique new lineage in Yemen labeled L6 that has a TMRCA of 36,600 ky. It is possible that M lineages spread into Ethiopia during this time and L6 spread to Yemen.
Thought Posts:
Ethiopian mitochondrial DNA heritage: tracking gene flow across and around the gate of tears.
Am J Hum Genet. 2004 Nov;75(5):752-70. Epub 2004 Sep 27.
Kivisild et al.
"The prescence of a frequent founder sequence type of an ancient and as-yet-uncharacterized haplogroup L6 in the Yemeni population, with no haplotype match in the African data base, intriguingly points to a possible early gene flow across the Red Sea or to a signal of gene flow from an African population that has not yet been sampled."
"...the almost complete lack of data from some regions (like Somalia and Kenya), it is possible that the source population of Yemen L6 varieties has not yet been sampled."
About M1
In the absence of a detailed M1 phylogeny, we have focused our attention on M2 to estimate the place of split of M from L3 as Africa or Asia.The deep roots of M phylogeny clearly establish the antiquity of Indian lineages, especially M2, as compared to Ethiopian M1 lineage and hence, support an Asian origin of M majorhaplogroup.
M1 Still hasn't been proven to be of southwest Asian origin Thought.
We further suggest that as more M1 mt DNA genomes are sequenced, there is a possibility that this lineage might find its root in one of the peripheral branches of Asian M lineage.
Until that is resolved M1 cannot be proven as non-African in origin.
M1 Still hasn't been proven to be of southwest Asian origin Thought.
Until that is resolved M1 cannot be proven as non-African in origin.
Thought Writes:
T.D., you are absolutely right. The M1 lineage has not been fully delineated. In addition, many populations in Africa remain unstudied. But even if M does turn out to be South Asian instead of East African the lineage would have nothing to do with “Caucasians“. The low frequency of M lineages in Iran and Iraq imply that there has been some degree of population replacement in these regions.
Thanks for sharing T.D.!
[This message has been edited by Thought2 (edited 09 April 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by Thought2: Thought Writes:
T.D., you are absolutely right. The M1 lineage has not been fully delineated. In addition, many populations in Africa remain unstudied. But even if M does turn out to be South Asian instead of East African the lineage would have nothing to do with “Caucasians“. The low frequency of M lineages in Iran and Iraq imply that there has been some degree of population replacement in these regions.
Thanks for sharing T.D.!
[This message has been edited by Thought2 (edited 09 April 2005).]
True. Its a wonder that the researchers in that study went around M1 to prove M has an Asian origin. Perhaps M1 is just another L lineage that needs to be cleared up, but true until M1 is conclusively delineated no one can conclude M1 is Asian.
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