posted
I know that wall reliefs at times depict homosexuality in KMT, but is there any evidence that the practise was or was not accepted by the common people?
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quote:Originally posted by Kem-Au: I know that wall reliefs at times depict homosexuality in KMT, but is there any evidence that the practise was or was not accepted by the common people?
I would imagine, that if wall reliefs depict 'homosexuality', and Kemetians were willing to leave records of such, then it probably wasn't as much of a big deal, in that its happening was acknowledged. It is probable that the Kemetians had similar attitude towards it, as people do today; they probably just didn't prosecute or abuse people because of it, as much as it is done in this era, in various places. I recall the recent imprisonment of several 'gay' men in Egypt.
Unless, there is any indication in the artwork that such behavior was taboo and unacceptable, the least we can deduce from the artwork, is that the occurrence of such behavior was openly acknowledged, and that the Kemetians made no secret of the fact that it existed in their society.
posted
So why is it assumed that men or youth holding hands in Africa or embracing each other has anything to do with the European vice--or is it cultural inclination?-- of pederasty and buggery?
If it did exist, where's the word for it? Unlike the Greeks who had words for that special vice.
quote:Originally posted by lamin: So why is it assumed that men or youth holding hands in Africa or embracing each other has anything to do with the European vice--or is it cultural inclination?-- of pederasty and buggery?
If it did exist, where's the word for it? Unlike the Greeks who had words for that special vice.
Now that you mention it, I might have fallen victim of the trap. I have images of Egyptians in same sex embraces, but just judging from the images, there's no reason to believe that sex is involved. It could just merely be displays of affection. I will post these images shortly.
quote:Originally posted by lamin: So why is it assumed that men or youth holding hands in Africa or embracing each other has anything to do with the European vice--or is it cultural inclination?-- of pederasty and buggery?
Homosexuality in Africa is not a European import. It has been there since time immemorial. Homosexuality is not a culture, it is a state of being, like being black, African, mixed, etc. Of course, it is a universal phenomenon, not simply a "European vice" or "inclination," because it defies time and space.
There is no concrete proof that homosexual activities did not take place in ancient Egypt. The question is how tolerant was ancient Egyptian society towards homosexual/bisexual Kemetians?
From what I recall the Egyptians did have moral codes against homosexuality considering it as a sin. Yet there is that tomb of the royal manicurists who are a pair of males (I forgot which dynasty) but there are images of them all over their tomb showing them in intimate ways like embracing, holding hands, and even their faces close to each other like they are about to kiss. And then I have heard of a myth pertaining to a homosexual episode between Heru(Horus) and his uncle Set!!
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From what I recall the Egyptians did have moral codes against homosexuality considering it as a sin. Yet there is that tomb of the royal manicurists who are a pair of males (I forgot which dynasty) but there are images of them all over their tomb showing them in intimate ways like embracing, holding hands, and even their faces close to each other like they are about to kiss. And then I have heard of a myth pertaining to a homosexual episode between Heru(Horus) and his uncle Set!!
I am not convinced that the temple scene depicts homosexuality. There are some African cultures where men show platonic affection like holding hands, and embraces without the motive, be they alterior, of any sexual interest be they covert or overt. I have read that in certain African cultures (I can't remember which) it is ok for men to hold hands and its a sign of strong friendship but women are forbidden to touch in the same manner. When I remember the people I will post it. There is no doubt that homosexuality existed in Egypt like it exists in all cultures around the world. Like Kembu said the million dollar question is "How did KMTs respond and acted torwrds homosexual activities and what were their moral stance towards the same?"
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quote:Originally posted by Keins: I am not convinced that the temple scene depicts homosexuality. There are some African cultures where men show platonic affection like holding hands, and embraces without the motive, be they alterior, of any sexual interest be they covert or overt. I have read that in certain African cultures (I can't remember which) it is ok for men to hold hands and its a sign of strong friendship but women are forbidden to touch in the same manner...
You have a point. I believe the Oromo have a custom where females who are best friends may kiss on the lips as a sign of affection, although there is nothing sexual whatsoever.
What about the story of Horus and Seth? I find it very disturbing, not just the homosexuality.
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posted
This is kind of graphic so be warned. The Dinka, who are ancient to the region thinks homosexuality is strange. Don't you think that it's an import from invaders? I could be wrong, but I haven't heard of any homosexuality being part of any African group that has not been in contact with Europeans and Arabs. It seems to me that this forsaken practice came from outsiders. Please read below!!
SUDAN REPORT: Widespread Gang-Rape of Boy Slaves
July 16, 2002
From Freedom Now World News Widespread Gang-Rape of Boy Slaves By Maria Sliwa Sudan, July 15, 2002: During a recent fact finding trip to Southern Sudan, Freedom Now World News discovered overwhelming evidence that young black, boy slaves are repeatedly gang-raped by their Arab masters. While previous reports on slavery have focused mainly on the gang-rape of female slaves, sociologist and investigative reporter, Maria Sliwa received testimony from numerous boy victims of rape.
"This type of sex is very strange to us," said recently redeemed slave Deng Deng. "Many times during rape boys would cry so loudly that the Arabs would stuff rags in their mouths so they could not be heard. I witnessed this often. If you refuse [sex], sometimes they would shoot you." Deng Deng is a Christian who said that as a slave he was often beaten because he would not convert to Islam.
Another recently freed boy slave, Deng Ayuel testified: "I watched the Arabs rape my two sisters and I watched many slave boys being raped as well. They would often take a girl or boy and do whatever they wanted with them sexually. I too was raped many times by my master and his Arab friends."
Perhaps the most graphic account of male rape was given by the freed slave Aleek Mach Deng: "I watched my master Mohammed and four Murahaleen Arabs violently gang-rape a young Dinka slave boy. The boy was screaming and crying a lot. He was bleeding heavily, as he was raped repeatedly. I watched his stomach expand with air with each violent penetration. The boy kept screaming. I was very frightened, and knew I was likely next. Suddenly the boy's screams stopped as he went completely unconscious. My master took him to the hospital. I never saw him again."
Many of the redeemed slaves told Sliwa that in order to avoid rape, male slaves would try to escape but were hunted down like animals by their masters. The punishment for resisting rape is often severe beatings, death or limb amputation.
Sliwa noted that the knowledge of male slave rape is widespread and has come to the attention of community leaders in Southern Sudan. "Many of the freed male slaves come to the chiefs and tell us they were repeatedly raped by their Arab captors," said Nhial Chan Nhial, Paramount Chief of Akon. "This affects their minds badly. They are subject to fits of crying, mental problems and are often unable to marry later on in life." Yet, in the ongoing genocidal Sudanese civil war, most are helpless to do anything.
International law recognizes both slavery and rape in the context of armed conflict as crimes against humanity. The International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia has recently convicted Serbian soldiers for committing these offenses. Freedom Now World News is calling on the U.S. Government to investigate this aspect of the Government of Sudan's declared jihad against the Black Africans of Southern Sudan and press for the establishment of an International Criminal Tribunal for Sudan.
* Translations reviewed by Francis Bok for accuracy.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: You have a point. I believe the Oromo have a custom where females who are best friends may kiss on the lips as a sign of affection, although there is nothing sexual whatsoever.
What about the story of Horus and Seth? I find it very disturbing, not just the homosexuality.
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posted
I don't think Homosexuality was an import to the Nile Valley,but I definately know it was discouraged and looked down upon. The fact that guidelines for it existed means somebody had to be praticing the habit of homosexuality.
This is a human condition that exists amongst all human beings,but I do believe that African cultures are stricter against same-sex unions as opposed to other non-African cultures.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: I don't think Homosexuality was an import to the Nile Valley,but I definately know it was discouraged and looked down upon. The fact that guidelines for it existed means somebody had to be praticing the habit of homosexuality.
This is a human condition that exists amongst all human beings,but I do believe that African cultures are stricter against same-sex unions as opposed to other non-African cultures.
The problem is that non-African religions (primarily Islam and Christianity) were imported to Africa. So it is difficult to measure the level of tolerance for homosexuality in many African cultures since their true cultural bearings became distorted by these foreign religions.
Much of the anti-homosexual rhetoric in Africa is not born out of traditional African values, but rather, from so-called Islamic and Christian teachings - the same teachings that heavily influence conservative groups in non-African cultures.
Since ancient Egyptian culture was not heavily infuenced by foreign religions, it might present a case in point to assess the level of tolerance for homosexuality in traditional societies of ancient Africa.
The word HISTORY literally means : A chronological, often explanatory or commentarial RECORD of events, as of the life or development of a people or institution. I am not aware of ANY historical record in Ancient Egypt or any other Classical African Civilization that supports the institution of homosexuality. There is a record of this practice in Ancient Greece.
posted
Is there any oral traditions that substantiate the claim that homosexuals existed in Africa before contact with Europeans and Arabs? I haven't come across any. The earliest account I read about homosexuality in Egypt was during the Greek rule. One of the Greek scholars who visited Egypt mentions all of the extravagance to be found including young boys..
quote:Originally posted by kembu: The problem is that non-African religions (primarily Islam and Christianity) were imported to Africa. So it is difficult to measure the level of tolerance for homosexuality in many African cultures since their true cultural bearings became distorted by these foreign religions.
Much of the anti-homosexual rhetoric in Africa is not born out of traditional African values, but rather, from so-called Islamic and Christian teachings - the same teachings that heavily influence conservative groups in non-African cultures.
Since ancient Egyptian culture was not heavily infuenced by fo
reign religions, it might present a case in point to assess the level of tolerance for homosexuality in traditional societies of ancient Africa.
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quote:Originally posted by Thought2: Thought Writes:
The word HISTORY literally means : A chronological, often explanatory or commentarial RECORD of events, as of the life or development of a people or institution. I am not aware of ANY historical record in Ancient Egypt or any other Classical African Civilization that supports the institution of homosexuality. There is a record of this practice in Ancient Greece.
Depends on what you mean by the "institution of homosexuality." But even if such records do not exist or are concealed from public much like the negroid objects were concealed to perpetuate the "White Egypt" myth, that still does not mean homosexuality was not a fact of life in ancient Egypt.
You also have to note that Greek art was by far liberal and sexually explicit than many ancient forms of art. It is also possible that other ancient societies were more tolerant and open about homosexuality than the Greeks but because they did not keep accurate historical records or deliberately omitted depicting their sexual proclivities in their art, we have no such evidence.
The reality is that sexuality (homosexuality) in many societies, including some today, is depicted in rather discreet form, if at all. In many societies, it is still taboo to talk about sexual activities, let alone depict such acitivities in explicit art form. But the fact still remains that homosexual practices are not uncommon even in 'low tolerance' locales (Saudi Arabia and the Vatican).
posted
Here is a link to countries of ancient times who tolerated homosexuality. There is only one picture from Egypt that depicts two men looking at each other. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality
quote:Originally posted by kembu: Depends on what you mean by the "institution of homosexuality." But even if such records do not exist or are concealed from public much like the negroid objects were concealed to perpetuate the "White Egypt" myth, that still does not mean homosexuality was not a fact of life in ancient Egypt.
You also have to note that Greek art was by far liberal and sexually explicit than many ancient forms of art. It is also possible that other ancient societies were more tolerant and open about homosexuality than the Greeks but because they did not keep accurate historical records or deliberately omitted depicting their sexual proclivities in their art, we have no such evidence.
The reality is that sexuality (homosexuality) in many societies, including some today, is depicted in rather discreet form, if at all. In many societies, it is still taboo to talk about sexual activities, let alone depict such acitivities in explicit art form. But the fact still remains that homosexual practices are not uncommon even in 'low tolerance' locales (Saudi Arabia and the Vatican).
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Depends on what you mean by the "institution of homosexuality."
Thought Writes:
What I mean is that homosexuality was clearly supported by the Greek City-State apparatus. It was not supported by Ancient African Civilization in any record.
quote:Originally posted by kembu:
But even if such records do not exist...
Thought Writes:
If no RECORD exists then no HISTORY exists for such a subject matter. History is recorded event. When we move outside of the realm of history we move into the realm of speculation and mystery.
quote:Originally posted by kembu:
You also have to note that Greek art was by far liberal and sexually explicit than many ancient forms of art.
Thought Writes:
HISTORY not artifact supports state support of homosexuality in traditional European culture. No such record exists in Classicial African Civilization.
quote:Originally posted by Thought2: Thought Writes:
HISTORY not artifact supports state support of homosexuality in traditional European culture. No such record exists in Classicial African Civilization.
The truth is you don't even know whether such records exist or not. Unless you are an anthropologist and have excavated the length and breadth of the African continent since day one for classical historical records, you are "within the realm of speculation and mystery."
quote:Originally posted by zulu: Is there any oral traditions that substantiate the claim that homosexuals existed in Africa before contact with Europeans and Arabs? I haven't come across any. The earliest account I read about homosexuality in Egypt was during the Greek rule. One of the Greek scholars who visited Egypt mentions all of the extravagance to be found including young boys..
African oral traditions focus mainly on genealogy and major events such as wars, conquests, coronations, and the like, but hardly ever on sexual activities. What makes you think they would think it important to orally pass down history about who had sex with whom? Besides, most African societies do not discuss sexual matters openly. It would be sheer naivete to think that there were no homosexuals or bisexuals in ancient or pre-Arab and European Africa.
posted
As I said before pertaining to the ancient Greeks:
quote:By the way, the reason why homosexuality and pederasty was so rampant in Classical Greece was because of the sexual and gender views that Greek men had at the time. Classical Greece was extremely patriarchal and hypermasculine society. Women were secluded, except prostitutes, and women were considered as creatures so inferior that the only meaningful sexual relationships involving equal partners was between men! And boys reaching puberty were expected to have some sexual rendevous with mature men as a rite of passage into adulthood. Warriors cohabited especially during times of war etc. etc.
There is an interesting book by Classicist Eva C. Keuls called Reign of the Phallus. It gives a very in depth look at sexual politics of Classical Greece and how it pervaded everything in their society!
In Papua New-Guinea, there are tribes where men are bisexual and marry a husband along with a wife in order to strengthen masculinity.
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 30 May 2005).]
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posted
You may not realize it, but most of Greek art has somekind of sexual reference in it, even though it is not obvious or the subject matter has nothing to do with sex. For example, almost every depiction had somekind of phallic symbolism involving anything from swords, staffs, arrows, even vajra(thunderbolts)
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posted
As far as Africa, even in traditional societies that haven't been much by foreign influence, there are a few societies that tolerate it but it depends on the culture.
I've read of a society in West Africa where lesbianism is tolerated but only if the woman were to cross-dress and behave masculinely. While in other societies it does not matter. Most occurances of sexual practices outside the norm usually involve cases of physical sexual abnormalities like hermaphroditism or somekind of androgyny.
As Evil-knows-not once pointed out, there is a custom where women can take on a pseudo-wife, but there is nothing sexual involved. This usually takes place in matrilineal cultures where the true wife is barren.
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quote:Originally posted by kembu: The truth is you don't even know whether such records exist or not.
This is precisely what was pointed out earlier, as being in the "realm of speculation and mystery". You aren't basing your assertion on what is already available, but what isn't available at this point, and so, you are speaking along the lines of, "what if", or "whether" !
If one is basing their assertions on evidence that is already available, the very existence of that evidence puts limitations on the way in which, it can be interpreted. Add to this, a mechanism called peer-review in the likes of archeology, anthropology and linguistics, which means that interpreters of available evidence, can't come up with just 'any' interpretation they wish, or else, credibility is on the line!
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: You may not realize it, but most of Greek art has somekind of sexual reference in it, even though it is not obvious or the subject matter has nothing to do with sex. For example, almost every depiction had somekind of phallic symbolism involving anything from swords, staffs, arrows, even vajra(thunderbolts)
Phallic symbolism is also not alien to indigenous African culture. This is especially true during circumcision rites or religious ceremonies.
I do agree with you that much of the sexually explicit representation in Greek art is rather symbolic. At the same time, they depicted human sexuality with greater frankness than most other ancient societies.
Victorian England would be repulsed by any reference to anything sexual in the first place. But that does not conclusively prove there were no sexual (both heterosexual and homosexual) activities taking place in Victorian England. It has been the same throughout much of Africa, past and present.
What ancient manuscript are you drawing this CLAIM from Ausar?
The following was from the Book of the Dead[Pr En Heru-aka in english translation the Book of the Coming Forth by Day and by Night]
This was one of the negative confestions that a person read before the 24 judges to judge wheather they would go into the Field of Iaru[Field of Reeds].
I am going by the Faulkner translation.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by kembu: Phallic symbolism is also not alien to indigenous African culture. This is especially true during circumcision rites or religious ceremonies.
I do agree with you that much of the sexually explicit representation in Greek art is rather symbolic. At the same time, they depicted human sexuality with greater frankness than most other ancient societies.
Victorian England would be repulsed by any reference to anything sexual in the first place. But that does not conclusively prove there were no sexual (both heterosexual and homosexual) activities taking place in Victorian England. It has been the same throughout much of Africa, past and present.
True, phallic representation in Africa is not new but on the contrary very ancient and very common, however the phallus was seen as a procreative and complentary to the vagina, while the Greeks used it to represent agression, dominance, and pure power.
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..He was also thought to have rather odd sexual habits, another reason why the Egyptian believed that abnormalities were linked to Set. In a land where fatherhood makes the man, Set's lack of children, related to the tale where Horus tore off his testicles (while Set tore out Horus' eye) would have been on reason why he was looked down on. His favorite - some say only - food was the lettuce (which secreted a white, milky substance that the Egyptians linked to semen and was sacred to the fertility god Min), but even with this aphrodisiac, he was still thought to have been infertile.
His bisexuality (he was married and given concubines to appease him, yet he also assaulted Horus sexually starting with the come-on line "How lovely your backside is!") and his pursuit of Isis were reasons why Set could never have been a ruler of Egypt instead of Osiris, despite originally being a lord of Upper Egypt.
When Set saw Isis there, he transformed himself into a bull to be able to pursue her, but she made herself unrecognizable by taking the form of a bitch with a knife on her tail. Then she began to run away from him and Set was unable to catch up with her. Then he ejaculated on the ground, and she said, "It's disgusting to have ejaculated, you bull!" But his sperm grew in the desert and became the plants called bedded-kau.
Set seems to be a deity that represented in general the odd and abnormal.
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Doug M. has posted some interesting information on the god Set and this is exactly what I was referring to!! http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/set.htm
..He was also thought to have rather odd sexual habits, another reason why the Egyptian believed that abnormalities were linked to Set. In a land where fatherhood makes the man, Set's lack of children, related to the tale where Horus tore off his testicles (while Set tore out Horus' eye) would have been on reason why he was looked down on. His favorite - some say only - food was the lettuce (which secreted a white, milky substance that the Egyptians linked to semen and was sacred to the fertility god Min), but even with this aphrodisiac, he was still thought to have been infertile.
His bisexuality (he was married and given concubines to appease him, yet he also assaulted Horus sexually starting with the come-on line "How lovely your backside is!") and his pursuit of Isis were reasons why Set could never have been a ruler of Egypt instead of Osiris, despite originally being a lord of Upper Egypt.
When Set saw Isis there, he transformed himself into a bull to be able to pursue her, but she made herself unrecognizable by taking the form of a bitch with a knife on her tail. Then she began to run away from him and Set was unable to catch up with her. Then he ejaculated on the ground, and she said, "It's disgusting to have ejaculated, you bull!" But his sperm grew in the desert and became the plants called bedded-kau.
Set seems to be a deity that represented in general the odd and abnormal.
Interesting Egyptian mythology! Some one should start a thread about AE mythology!
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: As far as Africa, even in traditional societies that haven't been much by foreign influence, there are a few societies that tolerate it but it depends on the culture.
I've read of a society in West Africa where lesbianism is tolerated but only if the woman were to cross-dress and behave masculinely. While in other societies it does not matter. Most occurances of sexual practices outside the norm usually involve cases of physical sexual abnormalities like hermaphroditism or somekind of androgyny.
As Evil-knows-not once pointed out, there is a custom where women can take on a pseudo-wife, but there is nothing sexual involved. This usually takes place in matrilineal cultures where the true wife is barren.
I think it is important to distinguish between seemingly homosexual cultural practices from what I would term "true homosexuality," born out of a natural inclination to have a sexual relationship with someone of the same sex.
Much of the homosexual cultural practices in Africa and elsewhere, including ancient Greece, were rather symbolic and had little or nothing to do with sexual gratification born out of a natural desire to mate with someone of the same sex. For instance, Zulu warriors raped their enemy captives to emasculate them and not so much for sexual gratification born out of a natural desire.
On the other hand, true (born) homosexuals are present in all societies both ancient and modern, regardless of the tolerance level of their societies. For the most part, they carry on their sexual activities discreetly, especially where the tolerance level is extremely low (i.e., Saudi Arabia, Iran, the Vatican, medieval Europe). Where the tolerance level is high (i.e., The Netherlands, Belgium, Canada), the need for discretion is significantly lessened.
But the jury is still out as to the tolerance level of ancient Egyptians on homosexuality, whether culturally symbolic or innate.
quote:Originally posted by kembu: Much of the homosexual cultural practices in Africa and elsewhere, including ancient Greece, were rather symbolic and had little or nothing to do with sexual gratification born out of a natural desire to mate with someone of the same sex.
Actually if you read what I posted about ancient Greece, it wasn't just symbolic but true homosexuality!
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 30 May 2005).]
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posted
Here is an article in the Journal of Egyptian Archaeology. Can't say how accurate the article is but its done by a expert in translation of ancient Egyptian literature. One story that dates to around the 6th dyansty tells of Neferkare making late night visits to his general. Some suggest this story might hint at homosexuality;however others suggest it might simply be a fictious incident made to deflame the chracter of Neferkare.
Sexual activity is a constant feature of human society, but sexuality has to be studied as a distinct cultural construct. It is articulated in texts and other cultural artefacts. Extant references to sexual acts between men in Middle Kingdom texts are few. In religious and commemorative texts such acts were presented as aggressive, but literary works accommodated a recognition of ?homosexual? desire. Two conclusions are suggested from this: that sexual relationships between men are considered irregular by the literate elite, and that the decorum of official texts differed from that of literary (fictional) texts. Three works in particular are discussed: the Teaching of Ptahhotep, the Tale of Horus and Seth, and the Tale of Neferkare and Sasenet. Author
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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The third picture shows the two with children. If children are within the picture then why exactly is the following being questioned. If suposedly the two were intermarried with each other,or living as a couple.
Children are usually depicted in AE artwork as being miniture.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Those men are also exactly what I was referring to! I believe they were royal manicurists. The fact that they were both "manicurists" plus those tomb paintings, come on!! LOL
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Those men are also exactly what I was referring to! I believe they were royal manicurists. The fact that they were both "manicurists" plus those tomb paintings, come on!! LOL
So what specifically are you concluding from these paintings?
posted
What I'm saying is that they seem to be a true homosexual couple! I'm not saying they are but that's what it seems!
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: What I'm saying is that they seem to be a true homosexual couple! I'm not saying they are but that's what it seems!
A homosexual couple, going about or living with children? How do you explain that in the picture?
posted
Supercar, I don't know about you, but today if there are a couple of males who not only work on nails for a living but also have pictures of themselves in intimate gestures, I would have my assumptions!
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Supercar, I don't know about you, but today if there are a couple of males who not only work on nails for a living but also have pictures of themselves in intimate gestures, I would have my assumptions!
Exactly!! That is what we have here. You haven't shed light to anything, but the mere idea that the two gentlemen are 'manicurists' and the pictures depict them in an embrace. The pictures show more than just that.
posted
You're right SuperCat....In other ancient cultures, you'll find pictures of people in the act of homosexuality..This picture only shows an embrace.
quote:Originally posted by Super car: Exactly!! That is what we have here. You haven't shed light to anything, but the mere idea that the two gentlemen are 'manicurists' and the pictures depict them in an embrace. The pictures show more than just that.
Posts: 104 | From: santa barbara, california usa | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Who knows, they are just twins probably? And without inscriptions the whole thing should not be read with Westernised eyes.
Humans can be accidentally disposed to do almost anything--including necrophilia, bestiality (in the last 6 months I have seen internet reference in the media of Western(U.S) men consorting with horses, pigs, dogs(a recent case of a man killing a dog while consorting with it)and chickens(also killed in the process), pedophilia, homosexuality, parricide, matricide, parent molestation of children, women teachers abusing their very young pupils, polygamy among the Mormons in the U.S. etc.--all Western, but the question is whether their society condones and encourages such acts.
Again, the point is that the Ancient Egyptians and other Africans unlike the Greeks and contemporary Western society did not and do not condone homosexuality in much the same way that bestiality is not condoned.
posted
I guess there's really no need for me to post any images of these embraces. They're too similar to what's already here, which I no longer believe represents homosexuality. Thanks for all the insight.
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
LOL
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