Luis, Underhill et. al: quote:
This proposal is in accordance with a population expansion involving E3b2-M81 believed to have occurred in northwestern Africa 2000 years ago.
quote:
Barbarian Berber writes:
I don't think that this is possible, do you mean that at the time where carthage was built Berbers did not have E3b2?
Hi Barbarian Berber.
The above is quoted from this genetic study on:
Migration routes effecting East Africa, North Africa and West Asia.
Let's examine the relevant passage and see if we can understand what they are saying:
* E3b*-M35 lineages appear to be confined almost exclusively to the sub-Saharan populations, except for a very low incidence in Egypt (2.7%) and a somewhat larger frequency in Ethiopia (7%, as reported by Underhill et al. [2000]). The highest levels of E3b*-M35 are in Tanzania (37.2%), Kenya (13.8%), and the Khoisans (11% in !Kung and 31% in Khwe).
E3b*-M35 refers to E3b without downstream mutations.
This is the original haplotype.
E3b1, E3b2, and E3b3 are derived from it, and much later than the mrca of the original haplotype.
When they say it is restricted to sub-sahara, they actually mean south of the horn - kenya, tanzania on down - this is an inaccurate definition of sub-sahara, but nonetheless that is what they are referring to.
** E3b appears to be confined mostly to the sub-Saharan populations, it is conceivable that the initial migrations toward North Africa from the south primarily involved derivative E3b-M35 lineages.
They are saying that E3b, diveraged in the horn of Africa into E3b1,2 and 3.
These downstream lineages and peoples then spread into North Africa and across the Levant.
They are very explicit on the details and paths the different lineages took from the horn/sub-sahara into NorthEast, NorthWest Africa, and Eurasia.
*** These include E3b1-M78, a haplogroup especially common in Ethiopia (23%), and, perhaps, E3b2-M123 (2%), which is present as well (Underhill et al. 2000; Cruciani et al. 2002; Semino et al. 2002). The data suggest that two later expansions may have followed: one eastward along the Levantine corridor into the Near East and the other toward northwestern Africa. The extant North African and Middle Eastern distribution (Underhill et al. 2001b; Cruciani et al. 2002; present study) of these lineages suggests that both routes are associated with the dissemination of E3b1-M78. However, the E3b3-M123 chromosomes may have spread predominantly toward the east, whereas E3b2-M81, which is present in relatively high levels in Morocco (33% and 69% in Moroccan Arabs and Moroccan Berbers, respectively [Cruciani et al. 2002]), dispersed mainly to the west.
Cruciani further date the mrca of the E3b2 haplogroup at 5.6 ky~, which is similar to its expansion date in Egypt.
However, in NorthWest Africa, per Cruciani:
The coalescence age of the E3b2 bearing chromosomes, estimated from the variation observed at the three microsatellite loci, was only 1,995 years.
Coalescence time measures the point of the common ancestor of a group of individuals.
The older the coalescence date the longer that population - defined in genetics as a group of interbreeding individuals - has existed.
From this Cruciani,2002 concludes:
Thus, both the age and the high frequency of the M81 haplotypes suggest that a [recent] demographic expansion has occurred in northwestern africa.
And that is what is referenced by Luis, et. al....
This proposal is in accordance with a population expansion involving E3b2-M81 believed to have occurred in northwestern Africa 2 ky ago (Cruciani et al. 2002).
The considerably older linear expansion estimate of the Egyptian E3b2-M81 (5.4 ky ago) is also compatible with this scenario.
Thus, they conclude, that the E3b2 lineage:
a) derived from E3b in the horn 5.6ky~
b) the current E3b2 population expanded in Egypt 5.4 ky~
c) the current NW african E3b2 population expanded 2ky~
ps - Yes, I know it snows in parts of the Maghrib and especially in the Atlas mountain region.
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 17 September 2005).]