Egypt today is a mixed group of individuals. Notice I didn't say they were a mixed people, because that would imply that all of them are mullato/mixed race.

Yet, if one were to follow history in reverse. we can clearly see that these were not a White or Caucasian or whatever word you want to use People. Arabs invaded and conquered Egypt some 1500years ago. Thus, They weren't Arabs. Before them you had the Persians, Greeks, Romans, Turks, etc...Again, so how could they had been these people? They weren't related. Thus, WHO IS THE ONLY GROUP OF PEOPLE LEFT INE EQUATION, BLACK PEOPLE.

It's not rocket science people. You cannot sit there and say they were whites, asiatics, etc... and know good and well when these people invaded and conquered Kemet, after being nothing more than War Captives, Travelers, Students, etc...

Nubia also conquered Egypt.

What these opponents don't realize is that their opinion is far more racist and illogical than the opinion of Black Egypt.

Ancient Egypt was geographically, culturally and linguistically an African people.

They were not in any way related to Indo-european cultures, their civilization existed before those cultures and when those cultures arose they were different in every way as different as China is from Indo-Europeans.

On the question of identity we must first determine who is White, who is Black, who is an Arab and so fourht.

Then we must look at phsyical anthropology and historical sources to determine to which group of modern people an Ancient people who we have never seen with our own eyes belonged to.

Race is NOT an objective science, many people cannot agree on who is Black or White today never mind antiquity.

So by that standard Egypt was not objectively Black. But also Greece was not objectively White. China was not objectively East Asian.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mansa Musa:
All of those people could have conquered Egypt and Egypt could have still been White at its foundation, speaking srtictly from a logical standpoint.

Nubia also conquered Egypt.

What these opponents don't realize is that their opinion is far more racist and illogical than the opinion of Black Egypt.

Ancient Egypt was geographically, culturally and linguistically an African people.

They were not in any way related to Indo-european cultures, their civilization existed before those cultures and when those cultures arose they were different in every way as different as China is from Indo-Europeans.

On the question of identity we must first determine who is White, who is Black, who is an Arab and so fourht.

Then we must look at phsyical anthropology and historical sources to determine to which group of modern people an Ancient people who we have never seen with our own eyes belonged to.

Race is NOT an objective science, many people cannot agree on who is Black or White today never mind antiquity.

So by that standard Egypt was not objectively Black. But also Greece was not objectively White. China was not objectively East Asian.

It is all subjective we must go by the evidence and all the evidence points to the Ancient Egyptians being a Black African people when you go by the standard of who is Black today.

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ok skrew the people........

Ancient Egyptians exagerated and drew more realistically their enemies,and it would be an error to simply used the reddish-brown tone convention and yellowish for femnales as a single definition. Even Egyptologist Gay Robbins cautions about this. Also note that because ancient Egyptians drew thenmselves with reddish brown-tones does not necessarily mean there were no people lighter than this in the north or darker than this in the south.

the following from Gay Robbins:

[......Thus,the gender distinctionencoded for human figures was
transferred at times to the divie world. The symbolisminherant in the
skin colors used for some deities and royal figures sugest that the
colors given to human skin---although initiallyseeming to be
naturalistic -----might also be symbolic. Male and female skin colors
were probabaly not uniform among the entire population of Egypt,with
pigmentation being darker in the south[closer to sub-sahara Africans]
and lighter in the north[closer to Mediterranean Near Easteners] A
woman from the south would probabaly have had darker skin than a man
from the North. Thus,the colorations used for skin tones in the art
must have been schematic [or symbolic] rather than realistic;the
clear gender distinction encoded in that scheme may have been based
on elite ideals relating to male and female roles,in which women's
responsibilities kept them indoors,so that they spent less time in
the sun than men.Nevertheless, the signifcance of the two colors may
be even deeper,making some as yet unknown but fundamental difference
between men and women in Egyptian worldview............]

The Ancient God Speak by Donald Redford

A Guide to Egyptian Religion

Page 57-61 Color Symbolism

Gay Robins

However, most artwork not associated with magic,execration scenes,or funerary statues or reliefs most likely showed the natural color of the people. People preforming everyday jobs like the example of the brown skinned models found in Meket-re's tomb and also the tombs of the nobels during the New Kingdom. In the New Kingdom artwork became more realistic in color and form:

Such examples is the pictures of the dark brown skinned nobel named Sennefer:

Note that the nobel has about the same color as the modern day Upper Egyptian living around Luxor.

Giza, what you see is an exageration of the enemies of ancient Egypt. The scene is a symbolic execration scene.

quote:

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Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
[b]THIS ONE PICTURE SHOULD ANSWER ALL YOUR QUESTIONS AND PUT MANY AFRO-CAMP PEOPLE ON THE ROAD TO THE TRUTH.

CLEARLY, THE ANCIENT EGYPTAINS WERE NOT BLACK AFRICANS, EVEN WITHOUT A STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION. BTW, THEY WERE NOT NORDIC PEOPLE EITHER, FOR THE RECORD.

[/B]

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not really, only two hold their hands up begging for mercy........

"one of these kids is doin his own thing"

quote:

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Originally posted by AFROCENTRIST32:
not really, only two hold their hands up begging for mercy........

"one of these kids is doin his own thing"

one of these kids is no different than the one holding him.....

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quote:

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Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
[b]Very Funny! Ancient Egyptians treated Black Africans, just like any other enemy of Egypt, WITHOUT MERCY.

[/B]

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Typical Egyptians

Not white at all not even close..

Giza,yes that picture came from Nubiannet. What's your point. That person in the picture is not a Nubian,but actually an Egyptian from Luxor.

Nubianet is not an Afrocentric site.

quote:

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Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
[b]Here is a Nubian, dressed up as an Egyptian. It looks very FAKE and UNREAL.

A problem with the picture, will try to fix.

[This message has been edited by Giza-Rider (edited 07 October 2005).][/B]

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That is a statue of Pharaoh Mentuhotep, your contention that it looks fake is just your opinion.

Here is a statue of King Tut found in his tomb. He too is painted jet black. Jet Black was sometimes used as a color of rebirth.
http://www.geocities.com/wally_mo/coco_hues.html

Saying that Egyptian agression toward its neighbors is probably the most absurd comment I have ever heard used to rebut Black Ancient Egyptians. Nations fight all the time. Egypt also peacefully traded with its Southern Neighbors, they sailed about 900 miles down the Red Sea to Punt a land near the Horn of Africa where the Egyptians proclaimed their origins. These expeditions were always peaceful and much productive trade happened between their two lands.

The Romans caught and waged war with their Northern European neighbors in vicious battles. Have you ever seen the movie Gladiator? Did you see how brutally and efficiently they killed the Germanics down to the last man? That is what empires due so are the Romans not White for fighting their neighbors? Giza, this is what it is going to be like for you in this forum you are making a complete full of yourself.

You quote dubious sources.

You build pathetic strawman.

You give up on a thread once your argument has been undercut.

You might want to try learning from some of the experts and more seasoned posters here instead of desperately clinging to a position that holds no validity.

The Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans. So what? Does that make you any less a Modern Egyptian? You may even be decended from the people you oppose.

I am an American. I am directly considered from the Ancient Americans. But, I am not considered a member of the racial group of the Native Americans of today.

It's just history, deal with it.

[This message has been edited by Mansa Musa (edited 07 October 2005).]

quote:

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Here is a Nubian, dressed up as an Egyptian. It looks very FAKE and UNREAL.

A problem with the picture, will try to fix.

[This message has been edited by Giza-Rider (edited 07 October 2005).]

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Actually that is not a fake or doctored picture. It's a hed-sed picture of Mentuhotep II.

The Mentuhotep clan came from Southern Upper Egypt.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mansa Musa:
Here Giza read a little bit about this Egyptian Pharaoh you dubbed "fake".

Mentuhotep II, First Ruler of the Middle Kingdom

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quote:

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Again, his features are NOT EGYPTIAN-LIKE, it does not matter what anyone says.

Egypt has had many foreign rulers and this guy is NOT A TRUE EGYPTIAN...

KING TAHARA IS ANOTHER NUBIAN WHO RULED EGYPT, AND LOOKED QUIET UNCOMFORTABLE IN HIS EGYPTIAN CUSTOM.

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His features were very typical for people from Southern Upper Egypt.

Mentuhotep II came from modern day Southern Upper Egypt. He was not a foreigner.

Keep gasping for straws,Giza.

You know I doubt you ever have opened up one book on ancient Egyptian history.

Ausar, Walk, just ignore this fool, he is just another angry Afrangi!!

To him, a "true" Egyptian's features are those of a Cairene or Alexandrian LMAO He wants to make all black Egyptians Nubians or whatever and tries hard to deny that Egyptians were black also.

quote:

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Originally posted by Giza-Rider:
[b]Again, his features are NOT EGYPTIAN-LIKE, it does not matter what anyone says.

Egypt has had many foreign rulers and this guy is NOT A TRUE EGYPTIAN...

KING TAHARA IS ANOTHER NUBIAN WHO RULED EGYPT, AND LOOKED QUIET UNCOMFORTABLE IN HIS EGYPTIAN CUSTOM.

[/B]

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You know they say "denial" is in Egypt but Giza's level of denial goes to wild extremes.

Giza, I'm sorry, I feel sorry for you sometimes because you get so easily upset over little things but you have to understand how stupid you sound using bold texts and caps to holler and scream your point of view.

Pharaoh Taharqa was a Pharaoh of the 25th Dynasty, the Kushite Kingdom when Kush was in full control of Nubia and during this time Egypt went through a Renaissance period where the Kushites restored order to a crumbling kingdom that had previously experienced centuries of decline. But then the Assyrians who's empire was growing eveer stronger the whole time came and after a long series of wars defeated them, driving the Kushite ruling pwoer back into Nubia.

Anyway, aside from your opinion of Pharaoh Mentuhotep being RACIST and UNFOUNDED the opinion that his appearance is not common among Ancient Egyptians is false.