posted
I'm happy to notice that new posters avoid getting tangled in Anti Science threads where agendas are influenced by Euro and Hore. Personally I have many friends who have European backgrounds and are comfortable with the fact that all human ancestors were Black Africans, most of them have Science backgrounds at the graduate level (PhD, Masters) .I can explain easily the diversity of Africans and they perfectly understand it. Even in terms of physical features, I usually tell them that Eurasians are more of a mix of African features: they usually look like a mix of Eastern Elongated Africans and more broad faced West Africans or Bantus, and most of them have no problem with that. That's why I doubt Euro or Hore have Scientific backgrounds otherwise they wouldn't react as they do. Someone who has a scientific mindset try not to be biased and assess the facts as they are and is open to originality and contradictions. Basically it’s very rare to see racists among scientists. That’s why I just dismiss most of their biased posts and prefer to focus on more constructive subjects. And I encourage Rasol, SuperCar, Though and Topdog to do so. Actually SuperCar and Rasol got it and just despise them. Otherwise if you get involved in their debates, you just follow the clown’s agenda without noticing it. The only thing they (the clowns: Euro, Hore) need is some attention. Basically the United States of America, Ancient Greece, Europeans or Asians wouldn't exist without Africans since they fathered all human beings. Mother Nature made them (the ancestores of all humans) Black. Well too bad if some people whose ancestors went through some depigmentation because of cool climates don't feel comfortable with that. But please if you are a well informed person don't get involved in those stupid threads otherwise you sound like a clown.
[This message has been edited by relaxx (edited 18 October 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by relaxx: I'm happy to notice that new posters avoid getting tangled in Anti Science threads where agendas are influenced by Euro and Hore. Personally I have many friends who have European backgrounds and are comfortable with the fact that all human ancestors were Black Africans, most of them have Science backgrounds at the graduate level (PhD, Masters) .I can explain easily the diversity of Africans and they perfectly understand it. Even in terms of physical features, I usually tell them that Eurasians are more of a mix of African features: they usually look like a mix of Eastern Elongated Africans and more broad faced West Africans or Bantus, and most of them have no problem with that. That's why I doubt Euro or Hore have Scientific backgrounds otherwise they wouldn't react as they do. Someone who has a scientific mindset try not to be biased and assess the facts as they are and is open to originality and contradictions. Basically it’s very rare to see [b]racists among scientists. That’s why I just dismiss most of their biased posts and prefer to focus on more constructive subjects. And I encourage Rasol, SuperCar, Though and Topdog to do so. Actually SuperCar and Rasol got it and just despise them. Otherwise if you get involved in their debates, you just follow the clown’s agenda without noticing it. The only thing they (the clowns: Euro, Hore) need is some attention. Basically the United States of America, Ancient Greece, Europeans or Asians wouldn't exist without Africans since they fathered all human beings. Mother Nature made them (the ancestores of all humans) Black. Well too bad if some people whose ancestors went through some depigmentation because of cool climates don't feel comfortable with that. But please if you are a well informed person don't get involved in those stupid threads otherwise you sound like a clown.
[This message has been edited by relaxx (edited 18 October 2005).][/B]
posted
This forum is doomed to go in circles as long as trolls are allowed to weave their way through every thread. I suggest people shift their attention to the Nile Valley Forum for more constructive discussion free of the ravenous trolls. http://phpbb-host.com/phpbb/index.php?mforum=thenile
On here even ignoring them will do no good as they will just spam to their hearts content. They are like that annoying kid in school who speaks in non-stop run on sentences and does their best to get your attention even if you don't appear to be listening.
[This message has been edited by Mansa Musa (edited 18 October 2005).]
I came across a National Geographics article on DNA in use to track down one roots and I applaud the author for describing the genetic journey his ancestors took to his present location in North America. He treated them all with dignity regradless of their ethnic background and their lived are rich in quality.
I wish all people would be so openminded and dignified in this respect! The true meaning of culture!
I came across a National Geographics article on DNA in use to track down one roots and I applaud the author for describing the genetic journey his ancestors took to his present location in North America. He treated them all with dignity regradless of their ethnic background and their lived are rich in quality.
I wish all people would be so openminded and dignified in this respect! The true meaning of culture!
heli mamnoonah hoda hafez
I forgot the little italian clown in my list: leba. Relaxx
[This message has been edited by relaxx (edited 19 October 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: relaxx, You do not have friends with PHD's who believe this Afrocentric garbage.
As usual, Hore fails to comprehend that this is not "garbage" but FACTS! Considering that these are FACTS proven by experts with PHDs, including anthropologists, some Egyptologists, and supported by peer-review, I don't doubt relaxx does know experts personally who agree with this!
Sorry Hore
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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The only people who support that nonsense are a FEW radical academics, most of them commenting outside their own field. You guys feed on this stuff, spin it and come up with some silly political constructs. No serious historian buys it.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: The only people who support that nonsense are a FEW radical academics, most of them commenting outside their own field. You guys feed on this stuff, spin it and come up with some silly political constructs. No serious historian buys it.
Oh God! Look who is talking!! This coming from the guy who quotes Zahi Hawass on anthropological and ethnographic info, even though such info is outside of HIS field!! In fact much of what Hawass says contradicts what the experts in those fields say!!
As far as a "FEW radicals":
anthropologists: Sonia Zakrzewski, Jean Hiernaux, G. Philip Rightmire, Colin P. Groves, Nina Jablonsky, C. Loring Brace, Larry Angel, and last but not least Angel's protege Shomarka Keita.
Egyptologists: Frank Yurco, Ian Shaw, Michael Rice, Kent Weeks, Bruce Williams, Toby Wilkinson, and Barbara S. Lesko
Historians: Basil Davidson, Theodore Celenko, and even Mary Lefkowitz!
Even M.D.s who studied ancient Egyptian physical remains: James E. Harris and Michael Cricheton!
These are just a few of MANY who agree with the FACTS! There are many more who I have yet to include in my list!
As far as them being "radical", LOL there is nothing radical at all about it. The MAINSTREAM has already come to a consensus that they accept and support what these above experts say. I thought that as a professor you already know about PEER-REVEIW, especially since folks on this board have been presenting it all the time?! And why shouldn't the scientific communtiy accept this, since there is no denying the FACTS!
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 20 October 2005).]
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Very few of the people you mentioned support this radical view. What happens here is spin...a line here, and a line there is taken out of context and wraped into a misleading statement. lefkowitz recently changed her view on the subject. I posted something on that last week. I have not met a single scholar, in any field who supports those views....not one.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: Very few of the people you mentioned support this radical view. What happens here is spin...a line here, and a line there is taken out of context and wraped into a misleading statement. lefkowitz recently changed her view on the subject. I posted something on that last week. I have not met a single scholar, in any field who supports those views....not one.
Just out of curiosity, exactly what view are you referring to-- human origins, or the Egypt thing??
I believe Relaxx's topic was about human origins from Africa and not about Egypt.
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
either, his level of education on either subject is not sufficient to justify such sweeping, general views. It is much like giving a man a loaded gun when he does not understand which end of the gun the bullet comes out of.
[This message has been edited by Horemheb (edited 20 October 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: either, his level of education on either subject is not sufficient to justify such sweeping, general views. It is uch like giving a man a loaded gun when he does not understand which end of the gun the bullet comes out of.
Let's deal with one thing at a time here. Relaxx's topic is about human origins in Africa. It is just a basic fact that has been proven by science, especially genetics, that all humans originated from Africa. That said, it would be natural that our human ancestors were all black. I understand why that might be a discomfort for some people (including YOU), given certain cultural biases and prejudices. I am Asian, yet I accept that my ancestors were black Africans why can't you?
In fact two education TV networks presented special programs based on books by experts:
Discovery channel aired The Real Eve based on the book by geneticist Stephen Oppenheimer, in which Oppenheimer used mitochondrial DNA to track down all our female ancestors...
PBA aired Journey of Man based on the book by geneticist Spencer Wells, who used the Y-chromosome to track down our male ancestors.
They are pretty good programs, you should check it out.
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 20 October 2005).]
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
You accept that your ancestors are black Africans? Quite a sweeping statement. Lets get some focus into this conversation.... 1. While most think are origins were in Africa it is not set in stone. 2. You are talking about literally tens of thousands of years ago, if we can even pinpoint the beginning. That early man looked like a modern black African is simply jibbberish. You are dealing with far too much time. Are you saying that early man did not evolve in Africa and everyone else did? I think you are jumping to conclusions that are more emotional than factual.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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^^ Dejuhti is only stating facts. Though why he is wasting them on Pro-Hore, the man with no brain, is beyound me.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: You accept that your ancestors are black Africans? Quite a sweeping statement. Lets get some focus into this conversation.... 1. While most think are origins were in Africa it is not set in stone. 2. You are talking about literally tens of thousands of years ago, if we can even pinpoint the beginning. That early man looked like a modern black African is simply jibbberish. You are dealing with far too much time. Are you saying that early man did not evolve in Africa and everyone else did? I think you are jumping to conclusions that are more emotional than factual.
show proof of anything that gives evidence to the contrary........
besides the piltdown man
[This message has been edited by AFROCENTRIST32 (edited 20 October 2005).]
posted
That stuff is pretty vague Afro. We are always finding information and altering our view. The point is that it is crazy to say that early man 150,000 years in the past has anything to do with anyone living today. What he wants to say is this.....early man in Africa stayed the same but when he left Africa he morpfed into something else altogether. I have not seen an early manin Africa or elsewhere that has anything to do with anyone living today. You may be aware that some believe man began in several different areas of the world. Lets not get carried away and just start making things up.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: That stuff is pretty vague Afro. We are always finding information and altering our view. The point is that it is crazy to say that early man 150,000 years in the past has anything to do with anyone living today. What he wants to say is this.....early man in Africa stayed the same but when he left Africa he morpfed into something else altogether. I have not seen an early manin Africa or elsewhere that has anything to do with anyone living today. You may be aware that some believe man began in several different areas of the world. Lets not get carried away and just start making things up.
what are you talking about..........
that poly-genetic origin theory has been shot down by not most but all reality based anthropologists........
it has been proven to be based on what we call genetic inferiority complex........ and a desire to separate the races and establish a racial hierarchy.....
posted
well, it is still in our text books so until its removed we will continue to teach it. The point remains you cannot connect black africans to the first humans.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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Well Horemheb many animals remain morphologically the same for millions of years. Easy examples: the crocodile, the cockroach, the shark, etc. In fact we can easily tell that modern humans are distinct from Neanderthals just by comparing skeletons. So it's not difficult to surmise that humans in Africa some 150,000 years ago would have resembled any of the following populations: modern East Africans, Melanesians, extinct Tasmanians, Australian Aboriginese or the San of the Kalahari.
Simple solution: just compare African skeltons from 100KYA and compare them with what we have today.
But reflect on my first point: many animals and living forms maintain the same morphology for millions of years.
posted
I see lamin, that is your proof? That many animals are much the same in modern times? Hum...so you want us to believe that full blown modern negroes arose in africa 100K years ago and are unchanged? Meanwhile everyone else in the world changed? Might want to rethink that line of logic.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Well my answer is reasonable given that the African environment remained climatically the same except for the gradual dessication of the Sahara and the Kalhari which led to drier environments.
When populations left tropical Africa they obviously had to adapt to those areas that were climatically different. Africa is tropical and subtropical with its own specific flora and fauna so once humans in Africa reached the SAPIENS stage--after attaining the HOMO ERECTUS form(cf. the Neanderthals )--they more or less maintained a morphological equilibrium from some 100,000 years ago.
posted
So if ancient African negroes migrated out of Africa and started the human race we should be finding their remains all over the globe, correct? Oh, lets see thay changed before they left , is that it? If so, how did they change if the climate remained the same....lamin, you are in a box here.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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There is some afrocentric baloney avilable here. Point is, they would be everywhere idf that were true, we would be over run by them.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:That stuff is pretty vague Afro. We are always finding information and altering our view. The point is that it is crazy to say that early man 150,000 years in the past has anything to do with anyone living today. What he wants to say is this.....early man in Africa stayed the same but when he left Africa he morpfed into something else altogether. I have not seen an early manin Africa or elsewhere that has anything to do with anyone living today. You may be aware that some believe man began in several different areas of the world. Lets not get carried away and just start making things up.
Hore, it is all a matter of biology, especially genetics. You seem to not understand that no one is implying that a human population stays entirely the same!! Asumming that the rules of the Hardy Weinberg theory for consistantcy of genetic alless are not met, (and they extremely rarely are) you get evolution. All species change in some way over time. What these changes are dependends on certain factors, the main one being natrural selection. The Polygenesis theory has been debunked ever since we began learning more about human DNA and the close genetic ties all humans shere. The evidence is too strong to deny that all humans share a common origin and that origin is in Africa.
quote:well, it is still in our text books so until its removed we will continue to teach it. The point remains you cannot connect black africans to the first humans.
Wrong again, as usual. These textbooks must be decades old, because even textbooks from back in the late 80s went by the single genesis theory and with newer information on genetics it has been made official and every textbook on human history there is shares the common African origin.
quote:see lamin, that is your proof? That many animals are much the same in modern times? Hum...so you want us to believe that full blown modern negroes arose in africa 100K years ago and are unchanged? Meanwhile everyone else in the world changed? Might want to rethink that line of logic.
Again, you fail to understand that black Africans are not 'unchanged' they too have evolved genetically which is why modern day black Africans have the greatest genetic diversity in the entire world. there is more genetic diversity in a single African village than the entire country outside Africa. As far as certain features, again Africans also possess a variety of features. Phenotypical features like skin color or facial features are adaptations to climate. Fair-skinned peoples of Eurasia are fair-skinned because they adapted to cold climates. Africans have always been black and still are black because they live in the tropical latitudes. What you fail to realize is that the oldest populations outside of Africa still live in the tropical areas and are still black--- people like the Oraon of India, the Negritos of Malaysia, and Australian aborigines remained black because they remained in the tropics. Body structures also change according to envirionment. Even though the people of Africa are still black they vary also with the shortest people in the world being Pygmies and the tallest people in the world being Sudanese.
quote:So if ancient African negroes migrated out of Africa and started the human race we should be finding their remains all over the globe, correct? Oh, lets see thay changed before they left , is that it? If so, how did they change if the climate remained the same....lamin, you are in a box here.
Again, Those Africans who left Africa changed a lot more than those who didn't, but peoples on the African continent still changed. As far as fossils around the world. It's hard finding human fossils, especially around the tropics but they DO exist. The so-called "Cro-Magnon" man of Europe was the earliest European and ancestor of white Europeans yet his cranial features were very similar to Africans and Australian aborigines.
Hore I suggest you watch either or preferably both tapes below to get a much better understanding.
Instead of your usual ranting about people here spinning lies and distorting things, why not hear what these experts have to say for themselves!!
[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 20 October 2005).]
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Djehuti, I'm beginning to think Horemheb is more than a stubborn fool. The guy is mentally ill!
Noone in their right mind would perpetuate such an illogical position and be capable of turning on their computer and writing a coherent sentence unless something besides their motor and verbal skills was messed up.
I think Hore may suffer from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. He just won't quit. He may have gotten his political views and his obsessive tendencies warped to the point where he has embarked on a crusade that he won't give up on. I'm not cracking jokes here either I'm serious. I think he has some type of developmental disorder that is causing this erratic behavior. We probably shouldn't tease him or egg him on that will just make it worse.
posted
Even if by some truth or scam it is found out that the original humans were not directly from the "African" continent, they would still be by social definition BLACK or tropically adapted! This is just the simple truth! I can assure you that the first humans were definitely NOT europeans or caucasians as we view these terms today. Its equivalent to putting the carriage before the horse; the children giving birth to the parents. Sorry to break it to you but it is SET IN STONE that brown or black skin the the original skin colour of humans. It is SET IN STONE that europeans' skin colour is because isolation, inbreeding and a GENETIC MUTATION! I repeat for the 1,000th time; Europeans/caucasians are not the center of the human species. They are merely a mutational variation, no more no less!
Horemheb do you accept this? Yes or No?
quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: You accept that your ancestors are black Africans? Quite a sweeping statement. Lets get some focus into this conversation.... 1. While most think are origins were in Africa it is not set in stone. 2. You are talking about literally tens of thousands of years ago, if we can even pinpoint the beginning. That early man looked like a modern black African is simply jibbberish. You are dealing with far too much time. Are you saying that early man did not evolve in Africa and everyone else did? I think you are jumping to conclusions that are more emotional than factual.
Posts: 318 | From: PA. USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
So now do you believe that Europeans had/have a completely different progenitor than the rest of the human family? You're going against a WORLD of hard core solid theoretical facts. But then you always go against facts if they don't put you and your kind as the center. You go against logic to maintain this bias and racist view. Hore show us the money!
quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: That stuff is pretty vague Afro. We are always finding information and altering our view. The point is that it is crazy to say that early man 150,000 years in the past has anything to do with anyone living today. What he wants to say is this.....early man in Africa stayed the same but when he left Africa he morpfed into something else altogether. I have not seen an early manin Africa or elsewhere that has anything to do with anyone living today. You may be aware that some believe man began in several different areas of the world. Lets not get carried away and just start making things up.
Posts: 318 | From: PA. USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
You teach this? I'm really sorry for your students! It seems like anyone can be a professor. Where are your critical thinking skills? You're pathetic!!
quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: well, it is still in our text books so until its removed we will continue to teach it. The point remains you cannot connect black africans to the first humans.
Posts: 318 | From: PA. USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
YOu are so stupid! We are finding their skeletons around the world idiot! The earliest europeans resembled africans and so does the earliest Indians and even asians. You are sick with racism! Its affecting your logic!
quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: So if ancient African negroes migrated out of Africa and started the human race we should be finding their remains all over the globe, correct? Oh, lets see thay changed before they left , is that it? If so, how did they change if the climate remained the same....lamin, you are in a box here.
Posts: 318 | From: PA. USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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For whatever childish reason Pro Hore simply gets his jollies out of yanking on other people.
Those who don't have...yank. Know'mean?
Ironically by sounding upset, you encourage him.
Pro Hore has to be viewed like the class clown.
He knows deep down that he is a twit and unable to learn, think or comprehend, but what he *can* do, is act a fool.
That is the only way for him to get attention.
He loves this thread because - while he may be stupid, at least you're all paying attention to him.
I sometimes clown Pro-Hore but I never try to teach him, or heaven forefend - debate him, simply because I learned ages ago that there is nobody home.
I'm not kidding here, so let me give you an example:
The 1st time we discussed the OutOfAfrica thesis in anthropology, he launched a bizarre and hilarious tirade to the effect that no grown man would read that book.
Book?
He thought were were discussing the Romance Novel cum Hollywood movie - "Out of Africa".
I nearly fell out of my chair laughing at this idiot.
That was the last time I actually tried to hold a serious discussion with him.
I realised then the ProHore exists on Egyptsearch to bw laughed at, kicked, and used occassionally, but never to be taken seriously.
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 21 October 2005).]
For whatever childish reason Pro Hore simply gets his jollies out of yanking on other people.
Those who don't have...yank. Know'mean?
Ironically by sounding upset, you encourage him.
Pro Hore has to be viewed like the class clown.
He knows deep down that he is a twit and unable to learn, think or comprehend, but what he *can* do, is act a fool.
That is the only way for him to get attention.
He loves this thread because - while he may be stupid, at least you're all paying attention to him.
I sometimes clown Pro-Hore but I never try to teach him, or heaven forefend - debate him, simply because I learned ages ago that there is nobody home.
I'm not kidding here, so let me give you an example:
The 1st time we discussed the OutOfAfrica thesis in anthropology, he launched a bizarre and hilarious tirade to the effect that no grown man would read that book.
Book?
He thought were were discussing the Romance Novel cum Hollywood movie - "Out of Africa".
I nearly fell out of my chair laughing at this idiot.
That was the last time I actually tried to hold a serious discussion with him.
I realised then the ProHore exists on Egyptsearch to bw laughed at, kicked, and used occassionally, but never to be taken seriously.
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 21 October 2005).]
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