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Scientists at the University of Cairo tested DNA from the remains of pyramid workers from 2600 BC, and found that the DNA of ancient Egyptians matches that of modern Egyptians. That is, the people living in Egypt now are essentially the same as the people living there thousands of years ago. (Read an excerpt from PBS's Secrets of the Pharaohs)

Borgognini-Tarli and G. Paoli, 1982. The ABO blood type frequencies of ancient Egyptians showed no signs of differing significantly from that of present-day Egyptians. According to the authors, "the blood-group distribution obtained for Asiut, Gebelen and Aswan necropoles shows resemblances with the present leucoderm population of Egypt and particularly with its more 'conservative' fraction (the Copts, MOURANT et al., 1976)."

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Link

Is this true? I was so certain about the evidence for an African Egypt, but now I'm not so sure...

Egypt is still an African nation. The problem is using modern perception and terminology with ancient misconceptions.

Meaning: you may get 'limited' response because many of us have been over this before and the search function may be helpful in this regard.

ABO studies are pre-DNA and convey only 4 combinations: A,B,AB,O, sometimes genetically distinct populations have similar frequencies of these types and vice versa.

Having said that, past ABO studies have linked the ancient Egyptians to the Haratin.

Note, both the link between AE and other Black Africans and the limited utility of ABO blood typing is denoted below:

The close resemblence existing
between our Dyanstic Egyptian population and a sample of northern
Haratin,living in the Algerian Sahara desert,is particulary
interesting. This resemblence ,shown in Table seven could of course
be due to chance ,but it could also shed some light on the problem of
the origin of Haratin,pointed out by Cabot-Briggs[1958].

Nile Valley thread on old and new blood-work related to Egypt: http://phpbb-host.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=1510&mforum=thenile&sid=95d90c cc219f81461af1a0f82b8426b7

Ancient Egypt and The Haratin

For one thing Blood groups do not correlate to "race".

PBS: What is Race

Here are two genetic lineage studies done on Egyptian populations that shows the Modern Egyptian genetic pools "reflect a mixture of European, Middle Eastern, and African".

1. Y-chromosome analysis in Egypt suggests a genetic regional continuity in Northeastern Africa.

The other shows that traditionally isolated populations in Modern Egypt show a maternal link to Eastern Africa.

2. Mitochondrial DNA sequence diversity in a sedentary population from Egypt.

This is genetic evidence shows the genetic diversity in Modern egypt caused by immigrants and its genetic origins with tropically adapted African people.

Here is the full text of the 1st link.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3659/is_200210/ai_n9126114

That is not a link to a genetic study, it is a link to Hawass commenting on a genetic study. Huge difference.

Can you list something specific from the study that you think needs to be refuted?

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Originally posted by Underpants Man:]No, I can't. I am not sure why Hawass would want to lie about this.

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Although Hawass has been known to tell a few whoopers, which we've also delved into previously, it's not a question of lying.

Hawass is neither a geneticist nor physical anthropologist, his opinion on these matters is frankly, worthless.

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Hawass is neither a geneticist nor physical anthropologist, his opinion on these matters is frankly, worthless.

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So? He could simply be reporting what actual geneticists found. Though you are right, it does make his opinion more suspect.

Most of the genetic studies cited in the studies are from modern Egyptians. To match modern with ancient populations you have to extract Dna from ancient bone material. Very little studies have been done on ancient remains in either dyanstic or pre-dyanstic Egypt. A Sweedish geneticist named Svante Paabo did conduct Dna studies on ancient remains from the 12th dyansty and found that some of the lineages were unknown and some connected back to sub-Saharan Africa. The way that geneticist do this is through PCR which allows peoples to reconstruct ancient Dna to extract genetic information from it. Anyway Paabo's studies can be found in the following book:

Pääbo, S. and Di Rienzo, A.: A molecular approach to the study of Egyptian history. In: Biological Anthropology and the Study of Ancient Egypt (Eds : Davies, V. , and Walker, R. ),British Museum Press, pp. 86-90 (1993).

Biological Anthropology and the Study of Ancient Egypt
edited by W. Vivian Davies and Roxie Walker

Additional studies by Paabo:

Salem, A.-H., Badr, F.M., Gaballah, M.F., and Pääbo, S.: The genetics of traditional living: Ychromosomal and mitochondrial lineages in the Sinai Peninsula. Am. J. Hum. Genet. 59: 741-743 (1996).

Pääbo, S. : DNA is preserved in ancient Egyptian mummies. In: Science in Egyptology ( Ed David, A.R. ), Manchester Univ. Press, pp. 383-388 (1986).

. Pääbo, S. and Di Rienzo, A.: A molecular approach to the study of Egyptian history. In:Biological Anthropology and the Study of Ancient Egypt Eds : Davies, V. , and Walker, R.),British Museum Press, pp. 86-90 (1993).

. Höss, M., Handt, O., and Pääbo, S.: Recreating the past by PCR. In: The Polymerase ChainReaction (Eds: Mullis, K.B., Ferré, F., and Gibbs, R.A.), Birkhauser, Boston, pp. 257-264(1994).
http://email.eva.mpg.de/~paabo/pdf1/Publications_Paabo.pdf.

Svante Pääbo

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v314/n6012/abs/314644a0.html

Jones, J. S. "Mummified Human DNA Cloned." Nature 314 (18 April 1985): 576.

Pääbo, S. "DNA is Preserved in Ancient Egyptian Mummies." In Science in Egyptology, ed. A. R. David, 283-88. Manchester: Manchester University Press, 1986.

Pääbo, S. "Molecular Cloning of Ancient Egyptian Mummy DNA." Nature 314 (18 April 1985): 644-45.

Pääbo, S. "Preservation of DNA in Ancient Egyptian Mummies." Journal of Archaeological Science 12 (1985): 411-17.(Palaeopathology--DNA Studies; Molecular Anthropology)

Pääbo, S. and Di Rienzo, A. "A Molecular Approach to the Study of Egyptian History." In Biological Anthropology and the Study of Ancient Egypt, ed. W. V. Davies and R. Walker, 86-90. London: British Museum Press, 1993.

Biological Anthropology and the Study of Ancient Egypt
edited by W. Vivian Davies and Roxie Walker

This volume presents the proceedings of an international colloquium held at the British Museum in 1990, which considered the contribution of biological anthropology to the study of ancient Egypt. The twenty papers by leading authorities, some concerned with general methods and approaches, others publishing the results of specific projects, include: Palaeopathology as science; Health in Pharaonic Egypt; What diseases plagued ancient Egyptians?; Dental anthropology of the Nile Valley; A molecular approach to the study of Egyptian history; The extraction and isolation of DNA from archaeological bone; The correlation of skeletal remains and burial goods from Naga-ed-Der N 7000; A historical flora of Egypt; Recent archaeobotanical research at the site of Memphis; Possible future directions of a bioanthropology of ancient Egypt. 196p with figs & 18 plates (British Museum Press 1993)

ISBN 0714109673

As far as the Dna extraction from the Pyramid workers is claimed that University of Cairo conducted this study. Since this study was never published in any book or publication we don't know exactly the specifics of the study. Usually such reserch is conducted in peer reviewed journals. However, if such data suggests that modern Egyptians are related to the ancient only confirms that modern Egyptians have the lineages of the ancient Egyptians. The following does not signify that modern Egyptians necessarily have the phenotype of the ancient Egyptians.

Most geneticist I have personally emailed have told me there is no specific allele,haloptype or any genetic marker that regulates bone morphology or phenotype.

Contrary to what white supremist claim, not Dna study has every pinpointed the ''race'' of the ancient Egyptians. PCR in the future might tell us more about halpotypes and alleles a mummified Egyptian remain has.

[This message has been edited by ausar (edited 21 October 2005).]

[This message has been edited by ausar (edited 21 October 2005).]

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Originally posted by ausar:

Contrary to what white supremist claim, not Dna study has every pinpointed the ''race'' of the ancient Egyptians. PCR in the future might tell us more about halpotypes and alleles a mummified Egyptian remain has.

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Thought Writes:

There is no need to wait for DNA extraction to tell us about the origins if the AE. The current data from genetics, linguistics, archaeology and cranial analysis trace the origins of the AE back to tropical/Black/Sub-Saharan Africa. Take for instance the lineage E3b1 alpha. We KNOW that this lineage has a MRCA of ~8,000 years ago in the Balkans (SE Europe). We also KNOW that this lineage is derived from E3b1 delta, which is traced back to the Rift Valley cultures of the Mesolithic ~14,000 years ago. We also KNOW that this lineage spread down the Nile with humans settling along the way. Hence we ALLREADY have the genetic tools to trace the peopling of AE.