quote:Originally posted by Pax Dahomensis: Djehuti: Do you agree with most Egyptologists that the concept of the Nun was inspired by the vision of the Nile in spate?
Yes, but I don't see what this has to do with your premise. The Egyptians concieved Nun as the primeval waters. There are many cultures outside of Africa that held similar mythological beliefs. But especially an ancient belief in primeval orgins again could only point to prehistoric connections. Do you realize that there were many lakes and rivers in holocene Sahara?
It seems that you are espousing the diffusion theory, that whatever similarities other African cultures have to Egypt is derived from Egypt during dynastic times. Why not accept the fact that such connection reach further back in time to when Egypt didn't even exist?
So far all of the examples you have provided-- the agricultural tool/weapon, similar words for god, and words for a watery primeval origin hark back to times way before the dynastic era.
Posts: 26307 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Djehuti: To be really honest, I have never said I agreed with Pfouma's method. For example, I've noticed that a lot of the words he compared with Egyptian, like Fon-Gbe "hwenu e dja" supposedly similar with kmtic "hnty dj" both meaning "future" are actually unrelated since the Fon word is a compound word.I'm just trying to make francophone documentation about the thread launched by Ausar available for everyone on this board. Take it as you want.
Posts: 203 | Registered: Dec 2005
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You're misunderstanding the point of my posts here. Ausar started a thread quoting me about the cultural similarities between AE and modern Africa some cannot being explained by a 6000+ years old separation IMO. I've never said all the information I'd provide would prove that the concerned people came from KMT.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Pax Dahomensis: Djehuti: Do you agree with most Egyptologists that the concept of the Nun was inspired by the vision of the Nile in spate?
Yes, but I don't see what this has to do with your premise. The Egyptians concieved Nun as the primeval waters. There are many cultures outside of Africa that held similar mythological beliefs. But especially an ancient belief in primeval orgins again could only point to prehistoric connections. Do you realize that there were many lakes and rivers in holocene Sahara?
It seems that you are espousing the diffusion theory, that whatever similarities other African cultures have to Egypt is derived from Egypt during dynastic times. Why not accept the fact that such connection reach further back in time to when Egypt didn't even exist?
So far all of the examples you have provided-- the agricultural tool/weapon, similar words for god, and words for a watery primeval origin hark back to times way before the dynastic era.
posted
Now I would like you to tell me how idiomatic expressions identical by both sound and meaning such as these can be found among languages that haven't been in contact for more than 6000 years.
Mdw Ntr: her,"head" Pulaar(Fulani dialect spoken in Senegal) hoore,"head"
Mdw Ntr: spd"pointed" Pulaar(Fulani dialect spoken in Senegal) seebde,"pointed"
Mdw Ntr: seped her,"clever" Pulaar(Fulani dialect) seebde hoore,"to be clever"
posted
What can we say about musical similarities between Kemet and the rest of Africa???
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Well, that was not my point at all, It's just as you seemed knowledgeable about mythologies, I wanted to have a discussion on a point with you, but since you seem more interested in pointing out "contradictions" or "errors" on other people's discourses, then go for it. And don't forget to start caring about yours.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Pax Dahomensis: Djehuti: Do you agree with most Egyptologists that the concept of the Nun was inspired by the vision of the Nile in spate?
Yes, but I don't see what this has to do with your premise. The Egyptians concieved Nun as the primeval waters. There are many cultures outside of Africa that held similar mythological beliefs. But especially an ancient belief in primeval orgins again could only point to prehistoric connections. Do you realize that there were many lakes and rivers in holocene Sahara?
^^Sorry, but the physical similarities escape me!! As for cultural similarities, which ones are those? LOLPosts: 26307 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Pax Dahomensis: Well, that was not my point at all, It's just as you seemed knowledgeable about mythologies, I wanted to have a discussion on a point with you, but since you seem more interested in pointing out "contradictions" or "errors" on other people's discourses, then go for it. And don't forget to start caring about yours.
Actually I never said that anything you've presented was an error or contradiction, on the contrary I have already known about such similarities! I am merely stating that non them really show evidence of influence from dynastic Egypt.
Posts: 26307 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
OK, sorry for the misunderstanding. The Fulani stuff from Lam I've posted refutes your claim IMO though. These idioms are irrefutably related in some way to Kemetic's and as far I know, are not reconstructable for any earlier state of Dynastic Egyptian language.
-------------------- Federico Da Montefeltro Posts: 203 | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Pax Dahomensis: From Oscar Pfouma "Histoire culturelle de l'Afrique Noire":
quote: The Dogon sign "gono" or "gonono",written at the end of the Sigi Time (sixty years) and identical to the Egyptian "ânkh" represents God after he created the world. Ancient Egyptians also celebrated, each sixty years, a ceremony called "hn" representing the renewing of the world. The osirian rite Sâh and the Dogon Sigi are isomorphic. The relationship between AE and modern Black Africa is irrefutable. Dogon gonono:"a 60 years time" Egypt hnn:"a 60 years time"(Budge) Dogon Sigi Egypt sâh Dogon Naporo=Osiris Egypt Npr=Osiris(E.Naville)
The Egyptian word for deity but also pharaoh, Ntr is also found in modern BA languages as thus:
BA and AE religious customs are exactly the same;Hermopolitan cosmogony is found among Northern Cameroon populations.According to M.Maubert "Coutumes du Gurma": "it is impossible(...)even for a layman, to not mention(...) AE, more precisely Hermopolis in Middle Egypt, whose specialists tell us that its cosmogony was about some elements (...)very similar to those we had the surprise to found among Fali people.A primordial egg or "Mother Egg".Two waters existing before everything, (...)"Waters containing waiting germs of creation(...) the only trait common to all the AE cosmogonies(...)" Existence of two lands and four rivers. The intervention of an ogdoad, whose members ,the organizers of the world who worked to built the more or less complete state of the world we know today(...) were originally one and same divinity but represented four entities and finally four couples(...), each couple representing the male and female aspect of one of the other entities(...) The classical iconography shows this eight characters as strange anthropomorphic creatures(...) frog-headed men, snake-headed women in Egypt and are described as crawling beasts living in muddy waters in Cameroon. Even the black ape, mentioned by Lebeuf reminds us of Thot, the baboon-headed god of Hermopolis."
The name of Thot(Greek name for Djehuti) is still found in Modern BA:Zukta, Zigta,(Muhuleh), Jukta(Jukun).
More to come.
The Akan also have a special class of deities that they call Ntoro.
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Actually I never said that anything you've presented was an error or contradiction, on the contrary I have already known about such similarities! I am merely stating that non them really show evidence of influence from dynastic Egypt.
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